dj's using pre eq'd tracks with final scratch

[sash]

Last year Richie Hawtin came to sunny melbourne (cough, cough....) and done his thing.
As most of you already know, Hawtin uses final scratch and apparently his tracks here pre eq'd. All he did was line the tracks up and cross over. If this is true, is this a sign of things to come in the dj'ing world? Has anyone else heard of this b4?

[Jimfish]

:?:

[ampassasinbirmingham]

jim fish, i think he means that the mp3's had already been beat matched and had frequencies cut at certain points in the mp3's.

Abseluteley pointless but if you wanted to be lazy????

[Komplex]

Nah i highly doubt thats all he did. That would bore the guy to death! It would bore anyone to death.

[Dustin Zahn]

I don't believe that one either. The reason he is a travelling circus these days is because he gets so bored with traditional mixing. Besides the kind of music he plays requires some smooth EQ work to slowly blend stuff in.

He does however, make edits or remixes of his favorite tracks to drop in the mix in his own style or way. Is that what you may be thinking of?

[TheRev]

I honestly don't know how that would work, most DJs I know change the EQ's throughout the mix. It's not like EQing is the hard part of mixing anyway.....

Maybe pre-beatmatched. But if that's the case, I can kind of understand because that would free him up to do more artistic things with the loops, and allow for fasting mixing and blending of loops.

Though he shouldn't need to do that, unless its insurance for when he get plastered or something...

[AcidBastard]

I honestly don't know how that would work, most DJs I know change the EQ's throughout the mix. It's not like EQing is the hard part of mixing anyway.....

Maybe pre-beatmatched. But if that's the case, I can kind of understand because that would free him up to do more artistic things with the loops, and allow for fasting mixing and blending of loops.

Though he shouldn't need to do that, unless its insurance for when he get plastered or something...

Insurance indeed, but how can you really connect with a crowd by just sitting there going back and forth like that... Seems like a waste of talent if you ask me :nono:

[daviec]

I'm sure I read somewhere about his new set-up based around Final Scratch but with dedicated controllers, and by dedicated I mean dedicated to his show, designed by him, for him. The guy doesn't come across as someone who would cut corners. He's a nerdy perfectionist :lol:

[daviec]

PLASTIKMAN LIVE SHOW TO UNVEIL UNPRECEDENTED TECHNOLOGIES AT MUTEK

Windsor, ON May 13, 2004 — Up until now, Richie Hawtin and his production team for the Plastikman Live show at Mutek 2004 have kept a very tight lid on the technology being developed for the show. They have begun lifting the curtain on a set of technological advances that will alter the course of how electronic music can be performed in a live scenario. The performance will involve Hawtin’s manipulation and control of multiple tracks of digital and analog audio, real time generation of a High Definition (HD) visual system, drum machines, synthesizers, effects and lights.

The Show/The Festival
The event will take place June 4, 2004 in Montreal, Canada as the opening event to this year’s Mutek festival (www.mutek.ca). It will be the first live performance of Plastikman material since 1995. The performances from that era, Glastonbury, the Fuk tour, etc, have gone down in the annals of electronic music history. The Mutek performance will be the only Plastikman live in North America.

The Music
Hawtin has resampled and re-arranged all of the Plastikman material dating back to the first Plastikman release, Sheet One (Plus 8/Novamute) from 1993. The entire catalogue is going to be reworked and performed live on stage, using a combination of classic machines and new software to meld old and new material into unique improvised mixes. Working in the studio, Hawtin has experimented with combinations of classic Plastikman material from Musik (Plus 8/Novamute), Consumed (Minus/Novamute), along with the new material from Closer (Minus/Novamute/Paperbag).

The Gear
Hawtin has designed and built an entirely custom MIDI controller incorporating the features and power of 5 MIDI devices into one. This unit, the CTRL LIVE, will give Hawtin full real-time control over 128 parameters of audio, video, lighting, and effects simultaneously.

For additional MIDI control, Hawtin will use an unreleased surface controller developed by Tactex. The units use the same technology the company developed for the Canadian Space Arm.

The MIDI system will work with one Apple G5 audio computer, as well as two massive, industrial custom-built 3D graphics and video PCs, multiple drum machines, analog and digital synthesizers and a host of analog and digital effects units. Hawtin will mix all audio using two Allen & Heath 14x4x2 Mix Wizards on stage.

The Software
Several of the most advanced performance-software developers have created breakthrough features in their software for the Plastikman show.

Ableton has created a special MIDI output feature in their nearly ubiquitous Live program that allows Hawtin to send detailed data to every connected instrument, locking every element together to a degree that had previously been unavailable. New features in Ableton Live also allow Hawtin to navigate his compositions through the CTRL LIVE device with amazing speed and dexterity.

Toronto-based Derivative has developed a custom-designed real-time animation and video sequencing environment for the Plastikman performance. Using their Touch software, Derivative has also programmed MIDI sync modules to lock the visual effects to Ableton Live, as well as custom software interface for the CTRL LIVE control surface.

The Images
Touch will synthesize real-time generative High Definition (HD) quality moving images. The material has been developed in collaboration with an international team of video artists, designers and animators. Ali Mahmut Demirel, who directed the video for Plastikman’s “Disconnect” single, based in Ankara, Turkey has shot hours of new material to be used in Touch. Crush Inc, based in Toronto, has designed 3D animations, and motion graphics. Honest, based in New York City has developed morphing graphics, video images and more. Jeffers Egan has developed real-time video environments and moving images.

[networkacid]

The guy did a DJ set for Apple on 2 iPods for a promo convention or some shit like that so he's definitely done it before, but I doubt he actually does this at real perfomances, probably just rumours based in the iPod thing...

[Dustin Zahn]

I was there. He played at the Apple SoHo store in NYC on two iPod's. It was pretty weird. A month later at Demf during the tronic party I was giving him shit for playing on iPod's previously. He laughed and said it was just for shits and giggles and thought it would be fun. I don't think he's ever done that kind of set outside that one time.

[sash]

what i meant was pre 'automated eq'ed' tracks, meaning each track at the beginning would slowly/ smoothly drop its lows, mids n hi's while the incoming track would do vice versa.

This is just something that i read on another techno rorum from a guy who was watchin hawtin up on stage. He claimed that hawtin wasn't even using his eq's during a lot of cross overs.

I doubt that any of this is even true though. Why would someone with his pedigree attempt something like this? Sorry if i don't make too much sense. I'm really shite at explaining something :eh:

[g]

that person is a moron. think about it: he plays each track beginning to end? the description makes no sense anyway. and maybe he wasn't using the eq as much as he was using the midi knobs which now control the efx thru the 2nd laptop he uses.

anyway, he does no such thing. and you can't pre-beatmatch. it aint traktor.

[g]

altho i will say that many times it's hard to tell just what the hell he IS doing. so much going on.. sometimes he'll mix in from the sampler and you won't even realize it. but to dustin's point nothing he's doing makes things *easier*.

[sash]

anyway, he does no such thing. and you can't pre-beatmatch. it aint traktor.

I didn't mention anything about pre-beatmixing. I'm assuming he beatmixes as normal. The question was in regards to pre eq'd tracks.

pre eq'd track:

a) find a track you like.
b) Turn down all your eq's on your dj mixer
c) press record on your sound editor (sound forge/ wave lab...etc (assuming u got your mixer hooked up to your computer.)
d) play your track through your dj mixer
e) gradually bring up your eq's to desired levels
f) Do the exact opposite for the end of the track (eq's down)
g) Save file as whatever u want, Edit start/ finish points.

Now that track is pre eq'd to your desired requirements and ready to go into final scratch with your other pre eq'd tracks. match the beats up and commence the smoothest crossovers u could only dream about blah blah blah...

I stress that this is only an allegation that i read on another music forum and not something that i 100% believe is true. Hawtin is a gun in my opinion!

[Komplex]

anyway, he does no such thing. and you can't pre-beatmatch. it aint traktor.

I didn't mention anything about pre-beatmixing. I'm assuming he beatmixes as normal. The question was in regards to pre eq'd tracks.

pre eq'd track:

a) find a track you like.
b) Turn down all your eq's on your dj mixer
c) press record on your sound editor (sound forge/ wave lab...etc (assuming u got your mixer hooked up to your computer.)
d) play your track through your dj mixer
e) gradually bring up your eq's to desired levels
f) Do the exact opposite for the end of the track (eq's down)
g) Save file as whatever u want, Edit start/ finish points.

Now that track is pre eq'd to your desired requirements and ready to go into final scratch with your other pre eq'd tracks. match the beats up and commence the smoothest crossovers u could only dream about blah blah blah...

I stress that this is only an allegation that i read on another music forum and not something that i 100% believe is true. Hawtin is a gun in my opinion!

Thats pretty silly and a bit of a time waste for what its worth.

I think you should email Richie or ask him at the next gig. I think hes coming out to Melbourne end of this year, start of next if you're up for the drive.

[g]

anyway, he does no such thing. and you can't pre-beatmatch. it aint traktor.

I didn't mention anything about pre-beatmixing. I'm assuming he beatmixes as normal. The question was in regards to pre eq'd tracks.

pre eq'd track:

a) find a track you like.
b) Turn down all your eq's on your dj mixer
c) press record on your sound editor (sound forge/ wave lab...etc (assuming u got your mixer hooked up to your computer.)
d) play your track through your dj mixer
e) gradually bring up your eq's to desired levels
f) Do the exact opposite for the end of the track (eq's down)
g) Save file as whatever u want, Edit start/ finish points.

Now that track is pre eq'd to your desired requirements and ready to go into final scratch with your other pre eq'd tracks. match the beats up and commence the smoothest crossovers u could only dream about blah blah blah...

I stress that this is only an allegation that i read on another music forum and not something that i 100% believe is true. Hawtin is a gun in my opinion!
so like i said, this implies that he plays each track from beginning to end.

which is friggin hilarious.

[MangaFish]

to be honnest, i cant see the point of that.

if he did that so he could have multiple decks on the go and not worry about a horrible drop in sound if he did over look a record over playing then fair do's to him. but last time i checked final scratch only supported 2 decks and i cant see him playing records though if his only on 2x 1210s

[daviec]

It's utter crap. That would make it more difficult IMO. First you've got all the hassle of re-recording all your tracks, and then you've GOT to mix it at exactly the right point so you aren't left with, for example no bass at all.

And just exactly how hard can someone find it, after all these years dj'ing at the cutting edge of technology, to eq his own tracks to suit a mix.

Someone's trying to make it sound as if they know what they are talking about :nono:

[bod]

if anything, i would have expected him to re-record his tracks at the same BMP, ie: dump it into ableton, resample all tracks at 135 BMP and use in final scratch.... but i doubt it.

his new live set looks no bad, 2 apple G5's running ableton and other sound apps and visual software, all controled via a custom built midi controller from Ucapps.

[the_psychologist]

"and then you've GOT to mix it at exactly the right point so you aren't left with, for example no bass at all."

exactly. i've seen him play his usual multi-source DJ sets, and i have no idea why he'd want to play this way.

i've also seen him use a footpedal with FS/Traktor, which allowed him to tap his foot to get the tempo more accurate (thereby making adjustments while in the mix).

[g]

oh fer chrissake.

the footpedal is nothing more than an on/off switch for the efx box.

[dJpZ]

lol

[the_psychologist]

sorry, but that's not true. i took video of him usung the pedal, and it's clear that it's for matching the tempo. whenever the beats would drift a bit, he'd tap the pedal in time with the kickdrum, and the beats would snap back together. it had nothing to do with effects.

[g]

or he was timing a multi-tap delay unit.

before moving to the 2nd laptop for efx, that pedal was used to control a Lexicon (or DP4, sometimes) efx box, which was routed out the Send and then back into an empty channel strip on the mixer, making the efx another ~instrument. he could mix all the way out of both decks, 'play' the efx track, and come back in with a record (or sampler) whenever he felt like it.

what you're suggesting is not possible with fs. pitch is still controlled with the decks, manually.

it's theoretically possible he's tapping into the 2nd computer which is now a Live/multi-effects unit but in that case he would have been interacting with an AIFF file and/or the new efx send in Ableton, not a FS mp3 file you're hearing on the decks.

there's also a lot of tapping that goes on with the c-loops sampler, but that's all by hand.

he also just likes to tap his foot a lot.

[the_psychologist]

hehe, i didn't realize you were a Hawtin anorak!

anyway, all i can do is report what i saw, and that suggested that *whatever* he was controlling with the pedal was having the tempo synced by tapping. i've been spinning long enough to have pretty trained ears, and the beats were definitely being corrected this way.

this was about 1.5 years ago in NYC, at the weekly summer event PS2.

cheers

[the_psychologist]

oh, and i know that FS is adjusted by the deck pitch sliders. i'm not THAT clueless. i was curious if he could have been controlling Traktor on one laptop with the pedal. sad that i use the program, and still don't know if you can do this. but i imagine that they'd bend over backwards to suit his needs if he wanted a non-standard setup.

[g]

a hawtin hooded pullover? ;) well, no, but rich is a friend and i've helped tear down his rig more than once.

i remember talking to him about that PS2 event & he sent me some video. whole damn place was jumping up and down! mid-day and it really looked like it was going OFF.

i can't say he's never used traktor but i can say that, in general, he doesn't. i'd be surprised if he ever had in a live situation. francois K does sometimes. wouldn't make sense tho, cuz pitch correction is a one-button-press affair in traktor. you can tap tempo but that's normally done way ahead of time, when you're setting up the files. anyway whatever he was tapping had to be tied to ableton. or you were hearing timing corrections on the delay line, as it related to the decks.

[the_psychologist]

yeah, that party is usually pretty rammed with energetic people. too bad the sound cut out a couple times on him! he looked well annoyed.

i figured it would be natural for him to use Traktor, since he and Aquaviva were basically the first DJs testing FS for the company. but maybe the blending of the products was a recent development?

anyway, this has gone round and round enough for now :rambo:

[davethedrummer]

i played with ritchie twice well before final scratch existed
and the footpedal was there then, he was using it as somekind of controller for his delay unit.(i think it's just a basic volume pedal but it could be a midi peadl to control delay times)
as for pre eq'ing trax before you play them
i've never heard anything so ridiculous in all my born days.
firstly: it would make it impossible to get right but very possible to get wrong
secondly: ritchie hawtin IS a very accomplished dj (whether you like him or not)and after me looking over his shoulder as he was playing i'm convinced of the mans integrity in so far that i'm sure he wouldn't "cheat"
thirdly: it sounds like a playground rumour invented by someone who just either wants to have a conversation about final scratch or ritchie hawtin or both, or just purley doesn't know how either djing or final; scratch works and is just taking a wild stab in the dark.

sorry to be so blunt but come on really , the whole idea of this is just so silly its absurd. :nono:

[g]

i figured it would be natural for him to use Traktor, since he and Aquaviva were basically the first DJs testing FS for the company. but maybe the blending of the products was a recent development?
you're just misunderstanding what the traktor implementation in FS consists of. it's just a back-end/file structure thing. FS has operationally been the same since day 1 and using the current 'Traktor/FS' (just marketing speak) has nothing in common with using Traktor, the application.