sampling copyright issues

[sinner]

Sampling is something we all do, and it serves us really well. I dont really think there is too much worry regarding copyright infringement in a underground scene so to speak, but that might change in the future.



I am basically trying to solicit opinions, and issues that may have come up personally with people regarding including some samples in their music, and maybe even a heated debate on the concept of "fair use" and whatnot.



The bug has finally bitten me, and I'm getting some of the work I have done previously ready for an actual release to the world, and I'm curious to know what I might be in for after borrowing a few things.



My personal opinions and moral code so to speak put me in a position where I can feel ok about sampling a loop or a small vocal sample out of something else and use it without feel bad, but avoiding an outright ripoff of someone elses track. (ie starting with theirs and making remix like changes to it)



This is a subject that everyone is going to run into, but I dont think many people even think about.



The floor is open to debate



Mike


You go in hard, and you go in fast.

[sinner]

Well I didnt much think about too much previously, and I realized recently I pulled a very noticable sample from a very popular mainstream track, and while only instrumental, I was thinking if I should keep the sample as is, which would make that part of the track a little more interesting because of the genre switch , or try to remake it using instruments on my own , and then It got me thinking of possible issues long term.







Thanks for the story though. I think I should rethink a few samples Ive done even recently that might have come from the wrong place





Mike


You go in hard, and you go in fast.

[MARKEG]

Oh my god this is a big issue for me. The first time I noticed the importance of it was when Chris McCormack took one of our tracks for his label Embryo about 3-4 years ago. We'd sampled a Regis track - we thought that changing the start point of the sample was enough and built the track around it. We didn't realise it sounded identical, to an outsider (we'd been working on the track for 2 weeks and started to see thing in it that weren't!!!!)... Unfortunately, we realised the error of our ways when Chris phoned us up and said that he'd just had an irate Regis on the phone saying we'd completely ripped off his track. 'How the hell did he get to hear it???', I said. 'We'll he's only the head of our distributor Integrale', Chris replied. Oooooooops.....



We made another track for Chris (I think it actually turned out better) and to this day I don't think Regis would have nice things to say about us, but hey, you live and learn. Now I'm sooooo careful. I think once you've had an experience like that you KNOW never to keep any loops in a track that people could say you put in blatently from someone elses of the same style that you're making.



To be honest, we've used quite a few vocal samples from accapelas of records and films on quite a few tracks, and I don't think for acid techno and trance there's anything wrong with that because underground labels don't care about copyright issues in underground techno or trance and it can make your track stand out if used cleverly (we don't do it for real techno though cause I reckon nicked vocal samples can easily make the tracks sound cheap).





Mind you, we did a trance sounding track for bonzai about 3 years ago and the sample couldn't get cleared. So we had to do the whole track again and Chrissi had to SING!!!! hahahaha.... that was fun but it took ages to get the mix sounding the same. :=]



My advice is if you're worried about a sample do two mixes of the track. And hey, NEVER sample a Regis record... hahahahahhahaha....
















Edited by: markeg3000 at: 10/25/02 12:02:46 am

[sinner]

Im getting things together now. doing housekeeping work I should have done some time ago, adjusting levels and stuff like that.



I always used music as an escape, and every time someone ever asked me for a track I had done, I would tell them "What sort of an escape is it if you bring people along"



I hpoe in the next week I'll have a few tracks out. In the last couple weeks or so I have had this sudden desire to publish even to the point of looking up vinyl pressers in the immediate area.





Scary stuff



Mike


You go in hard, and you go in fast.

[MARKEG]

I think the genre switch thing is an excellent thing to do but i reckon just try to make the sample as innovative as possible in techno - not simply nicked for the sake of it... if you don't feel comfortable - don't use it...v interested to hear the final result.... maybe you could post a link to it and get some comments from everyone?

[miromiric.]

for me making music is expressing yourself, your thoughts, feelings, presenting who you really are. So in this terms using someone other`s samples is completely disgusting for me. Cause the music has to be yours.

........

[sinner]

Without arguing about it, I will just say that isnt something that everyone tends to see the same way as you.



Sampling is not about lining up 20 tracks, cutting what you like out of each of them and replaying it and calling it something unique.



Sampling comes for a few different reasons.



I reason that we run into alot, especially in techno is vocal samples. Because of the way the music is created, and the fact that MIDI while wonderful in most respects is just useless for vocals, our choices for vocals are either speaking or singing it ourselves, or getting samples from other locations. Getting the samples works out better most of the time because you just cant duplicate some of the wacky things that get said or the way they get said.



Another part of sampling is from cross-genre. Finding certain small aspects of tracks not found in your own genre, and molding them into what fits yours, and adding things on top of it to make it sound what fits your style alot better.



Take a sculptor. Its considered a fine art, but all they are doing is taking a big hunk of rock they found somewhere else and molding it into what they see when they look at it. Sampling done right for musical bars is very similar to that.



And third, we all make music for different reasons each time. One track might be to completely express ourselves, our moods, trying to put what happens in life into a musical form. But thats not just it. Part of creating music is also for other people to appreciate it, and sometimes just to get them up and dance.



Sampling done well and properly is not an inherent infringement on other peoples creations, nor is it a fast track way to creating music you otherwise cant.



Maybe its not "pure" music, but what really is. Even the music you create on your own is almost always influenced by what you listen to. How far off is sampling from that when you break it down note by note.



Mike


You go in hard, and you go in fast.

[miromiric.]

got your point and i recpect that.

but when i get my MD and a good mike, sampling`s no more!

there are to many beautiful sounds in my suroundings to ignore them