and back to techno! primate and ish.

[Adverse]

what's the consensus on this board concerning prime(ate/evil)? i don't own any primate/primevil records. i don't enjoy anything out on it. the last thing i would say that had any spunk or character was cristian varela on gernerator feelings. Seems as though this is one of the top selling labels in techno.

i know this board has a following of people like mark and glenn and some others like surgeon and broom but what's the consensus concerning this huge label? personally i could care less if it existed.

[MARKEG]

i think primate were essential in bringing the harder sound to the public. but over the last few years they've become much funkier.

mind you, i love primate music and still play their sound.

[MARKEG]

at the end of the day, we have to remember that they've taken the techno sound to a huge amount of ppl...

[Tyrisia]

I haven't bought may records for the last year n half, but I used 2 buy lodsa primate - mainly cos the local record shop sold it and I likd the instant techno sound they produced - listening through some of them the other day I kinda thought "Why the hell did I buy that?" 2 some of them, but the likes of the Brian Zentz "Kingdom of the Selfish EP" on Primate, and a Soul Watcher tune on Primeevil I still really love - I try not 2 judge music by the label, but by the tune. What do u guys think about the more techhouse label's like Soma? I know ur all into harder stuff - but all the same..

[Dustin Zahn]

I'll agree with you on the Generator Feelings by Varela, probably my fav. record ever on Primate. Balls out!

As for the rest of the label(s), I have mixed feelings. Sometimes theres something really essential if you're playing a clubby part of your set, and sometimes its garbage. After around #40 something, the releases got pretty dull up until last summer. I'm actually quite impressed with the last few primates, but they're still not great to the point where you'd wet your pants.

I guess the reason its probably one of the best selling labels is because obviously its an in-house label, and they can promote the shit out of it for free basically.

[gunjack]

i do not own any primate rekkids.

[Adverse]

gunny, i am not suprised :) how was the gig???

[death on a stick]

I think that if Primate and Primevil had never existed, the state of techno as a whole would be much better.

Bunch of lame, generic, easy-access, unchallenging, boring, unimaginative drivel. There's been about 2 tracks across both labels that were worth buying.

Long live techno, down with Primate.

[Paul Zykotik]

I think that if Primate and Primevil had never existed, the state of techno as a whole would be much better.

Bunch of lame, generic, easy-access, unchallenging, boring, unimaginative drivel. There's been about 2 tracks across both labels that were worth buying.

Long live techno, down with Primate.

More constructive criticism I see :roll:

Primate has been a bit hit and miss in the last couple of years, but always worth listening to because a few gems come through now and again. Much of their output is stuck around the sort of "crashing drums" loops, but then so is Glenn Wilson IMO, and he doesn't get much criticism. Each to their own of course - but it's a label that's had some cracking releases and will no doubt continue to in the future.

Primevil also went a bit off the boil a couple of years ago but some of the recent releases have been outstanding, there's quite a variation of stuff on there as well, from Adam Jay's funky but atmospheric EP to Rush's banging remix of Arise, to Jamie Bissmire's and Woody McBride's more minimal output.

Close yourself off altogether from a particular label, and you're going to miss some cracking tunes in my opinion!

[Adverse]

i agree with both sides of what i'm reading in this post.. cheers.

[miasma man]

Yeh, I agree with the general gist of comments. Used to be bang on tunes, got a bit bland now. There have been a couple of nice trax on the Primate Endangered Species series (nice vinyl colours as well).

I reckon Valentino Kanzanyi out about 18 months ago was spot on, b side much better. Damn funky but good hard rythms.

Then again what about Jericho, similar sort of stuff. More from the Prime farm I suppose...

[Adverse]

jericho i cannot stand. sorry. i just heard a clip of 24 by :( HARDCELL. and i'm sorry to say.. not very good. disapointing.

[djfase]

i think the a side of renegade ep is wicked

[miasma man]

Yeh, I agree with the general gist of comments. Used to be bang on tunes, got a bit bland now. There have been a couple of nice trax on the Primate Endangered Species series (nice vinyl colours as well).

I reckon Valentino Kanzanyi out about 18 months ago was spot on, b side much better. Damn funky but good hard rythms.

Then again what about Jericho, similar sort of stuff. More from the Prime farm I suppose...

[Dustin Zahn]

jericho i cannot stand. sorry. i just heard a clip of 24 by :( HARDCELL. and i'm sorry to say.. not very good. disapointing.


whoa, for once we agree! ;)

[Adverse]

the hardcell or that jericho stinks?

[Dustin Zahn]

both

[Nomak]

I think that if Primate and Primevil had never existed, the state of techno as a whole would be much better.

Bunch of lame, generic, easy-access, unchallenging, boring, unimaginative drivel. There's been about 2 tracks across both labels that were worth buying.

Long live techno, down with Primate.

I dont agree.. Ive been into techno for a long while and I like all sorts from Surgeon and Regis right through to the free party sound like Dave the drummer etc and I have loads of Primate records and some of them are my favourite tunes, altho Ive never bought anything on primevil some of the primate are well worth a mention....

A quick look through my records all these in my opiion are wicked..

Samuel Onervas - Fugitive EP
Mould Impression (Beyer) - 6 Hours
Fugitive Ep RMXS - Joel Mull Remix
Gaetano - 7775-Line Ep
Sound Enforcer - Law order and Enforcement Ep
Chris Liebing - No time to waste Ep
Intexor and Sinesweeper - Prmt 17
Throb - Subnormal EP

All of these tunes are wicked, Ill admit I have some on primate that are not so good but to say that is a joke. I think around 97 - 99 Primate were one of my favourite labels!

[Adverse]

Throb - Subnormal EP


yea that record is class.

[gunjack]

I think that if Primate and Primevil had never existed, the state of techno as a whole would be much better.

Bunch of lame, generic, easy-access, unchallenging, boring, unimaginative drivel. There's been about 2 tracks across both labels that were worth buying.

Long live techno, down with Primate.



agreed.

[MARKEG]

wow, this is well divided!!!!

death on a stick - and anyone else out there who thinks the same - why exactly do you think prime have been bad for techno. just interested. i feel the same in a way but i also feel that without prime putting out more formulated techno, techno would have lost a huge following and perhaps got too experimental for it's own good???????

[Paul Zykotik]

wow, this is well divided!!!!

death on a stick - and anyone else out there who thinks the same - why exactly do you think prime have been bad for techno. just interested. i feel the same in a way but i also feel that without prime putting out more formulated techno, techno would have lost a huge following and perhaps got too experimental for it's own good???????

See this is the problem I have when people go on about constantly being experimental and innovative. It's all well and good to be both these things, and I love hearing something new, but a lot of people do just want to listen to music that makes them jump up and down and have a good time, tunes that work for the body and not for the mind. Does this make the techno they listen to any less valid? In my experience most people who have got into techno have done so through the hard-loops route, and then varied their tastes a bit once they realise what else is out there. If you reduced to techno to purely experimental levels, it would take the fun out of it, and you'd also fail to attract a lot of people into it, as the tunes they'd hear could be far too otherworldly for them to get into. And yes, believe it or not, it's possible for techno to be fun.

I'd rather spend the rest of my days locked in a room with two decks and a crate of Primate records than in a room with a load of techno musos whining on about how the scene's just not experimental enough.

[eyes without a face]

i think that Prime did a good job of getting alot of artists noticed and in the beginning had a sound job that they were doing well. now i personally think that Prime are killin techno, they release some of the most dire and mind numbing records that have ever been pressed to vinyl. i own a few records and i realise that some of them are decent, i.e the ones i have got good eg being Manipulated. i know a few big name jocks who share this opinion too

[Esox Lucius]

manipulated is the best prime release i reckon, some decnt tunes on there, most of the recent stuff i have heard is not to my taste though.

[gunjack]

a lot of people do just want to listen to music that makes them jump up and down and have a good time.


then let them listen to hard house and do beer bongs.

[gunjack]

why exactly do you think prime have been bad for techno. just interested.


because jel ford and adam beyer are too busy playing eachothers skinflutes to take a chance on any new artists.

[Adverse]

because jel ford and adam beyer are too busy playing eachothers skinflutes to take a chance on any new artists.

bong!

[MARKEG]

deaf - a good point. i sent them at least 3 ppl from prime 2 cd's about 1 year ago. since then every single track has been released on loads of different labels. yet they didn't even call me back to thank me. i haven't bothered sending them anything again.

[Esox Lucius]

apparently picotto is going to be bringing some stuff out on primate!

[miromiric.]

well that was to expect!

prime really, really, really sucks in terms of Techno.

[Esox Lucius]

agreed

[gunjack]

deaf - a good point. i sent them at least 3 ppl from prime 2 cd's about 1 year ago. since then every single track has been released on loads of different labels. yet they didn't even call me back to thank me. i haven't bothered sending them anything again.


bingo. i dont do bussiness with folks i havent looked in the eye.

[herman]

This is obviously a touchy subject for a lot of people but to be fair to dismiss a whole label (and it seems distribution company) as ruining techno because you dont like what they do is a bit much.The fact is there has been over 100 release's on the various prime labels so the chance's you are going to be into all of them are pretty low(for the record im not that fond of most of it myself) but they have still released some great stuff from some varied (and new artists) so i really dont see how they are destroying techno.

[owain_k]

[/quote]
bingo. i dont do bussiness with folks i havent looked in the eye.
[/quote]

sound principal, i believe very much in this ethos too !

[Buttman]

bingo. i dont do bussiness with folks i havent looked in the eye.

Brown-eye?

[Paul Zykotik]

then let them listen to hard house and do beer bongs.

What, just because they're not into it for the same reasons as you? What if it's the music they love to listen to the most? Sorry mate, but that's little more than a stereotypical "techno fascist" statement.

Let me put it like this - someone gets into techno, not through Fergie or anyone like that, but through a fellow techno lover or of their own accord. The sound they like most is the Primate sound. Just because they have a different idea of techno to you, (although what you both listen to IS techno, like it or not) you're going to dismiss them as someone who doesn't really get it, reason being that they don't like the same stuff you do? I can't understand that mentality at all.

Musical snobbery eh? You've got to love it... :roll:

[gunjack]

look mate, if you are into techno to "jump up and down" then obviously you are into the music for very superficial reasons. nuff said.

[Paul Zykotik]

look mate, if you are into techno to "jump up and down" then obviously you are into the music for very superficial reasons. nuff said.

I wasn't referring to myself. I listen to and feel passionate about many styles of dance music, which makes it very hard to understand your snobbery.

What I can't get my head around is why you're better than someone who likes music that you don't, which with the stereotypes and your dismissive attitude is the impression you give me.

[Adverse]

i haven't heard gunny say he was better than anyone..

[Nomak]

look mate, if you are into techno to "jump up and down" then obviously you are into the music for very superficial reasons. nuff said.

Techno doesnt make you want to jump around???

[gunjack]

What I can't get my head around is why you're better than someone who likes music that you don't, which with the stereotypes and your dismissive attitude is the impression you give me.


well you keep on having that impression and keep generalizing folks you have only seen on the internet, and see how far it gets you. 8)

[Paul Zykotik]

well you keep on having that impression and keep generalizing folks you have only seen on the internet, and see how far it gets you. 8)

*sigh*

Maybe I wouldn't be so quick with generalisations if you weren't giving me sufficient proof of them... :roll:

Anyway, this is going round in circles. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Dustin Zahn]

This is a really good and interesting topic. Sometimes I feel techno needs to be experimental, but sometimes I think people are too serious about it.

Don't forget, techno is dance music. Its made for people to jump up and down and move to. Everytime I walk in the record store, I don't have any expectations really. I don't expect artists to blow me away with release or that release. I listen to a record and I think...will people move to this shit? If they would, and I dig it, I am going to buy it. I don't care if its mind blowing or the same shit but a different day.

Maybe its a bad mind frame to have, but I try to keep myself rooted and remember its all just dance music at the end of the day.

Now mind you, this is no exception for why over half of Primate's releases are weak.

[gunjack]

ok, good point.

[death on a stick]

The thing is...there is plenty of techno out there which goes bang bang bang but doesn't sound like every single release on 200 indistinguishable labels.

Get a techno record with a kick drum...play it in a club...it go boom boom. Doesn't matter if the kick drum is surrounded by deep, abstract atmospheric sounds, innovative percussion programming, whoopass basslines......or just looped with that tribal sample that wotsisname used who sampled it off that other tune on that label by that fella who sampled it off that batacuda thing he found in the second hand store.

Have kick drum, can dance. But techno is so much more than just dance music. Some people have forgotten that...even sadder, some people who've come into techno in the past 5 or 6 years have never been given the opportunity to realise it.

Nobody's saying that the dance element should be removed....it's the crap element that causes problems. Track after track after track of the saaaaaaaaaame thing. Some artists :? are taking the piss!! Why release 20 records that sound the same, have the same samples in them, have the same breakdowns...come on...DO SOMETHING for f u c ks sake.

That shit is easy. Techno (and yes I am going to say words like "should") should be challenging. It should be innovative, it should invoke new experiences. Yeah, jumping up and down to a new funky drum loop can be fun for about 2 seconds, but how about some mental stimulation?




See this is the problem I have when people go on about constantly being experimental and innovative. It's all well and good to be both these things, and I love hearing something new, but a lot of people do just want to listen to music that makes them jump up and down and have a good time, tunes that work for the body and not for the mind. Does this make the techno they listen to any less valid?

No it doesn't make it less valid, it makes it not techno. Techno is and always has been about innovation and imagination as well as being dance music. That stuff is just "hard dance music" masquerading as techno as far as I'm concerned.

People are far too accepting...they get into this sound that their parents hate and makes them jump up and down and fist the air cos it's sooooo bangin' but it not taking them anywhere and not showing them anything. I honestly think that if you got half the people who swear by that loopy drum stuff and played them a proper (DANCEY) abstract techno set they'd huddle in the corner pissing their pants.

To relate it all back to the thread (as this may just as easily have gone into the "issues in techno" thread)...Prime started out great, pushing new artists and new techno sounds...but the problem is that once the formula was realised it was put into overdrive and over the years the genre has become so badly watered down to the point where quite probably the majority of people who call themselves techno heads, and even techno DJs, have hardly ever heard any decent techno. Primate the label has chucked out so many records that were headed straight for the bin...the sad thing being that those conditioned into it thought they were great and bought the f u c kers up like ants on honey.

Now...I can see the responses coming..."if people enjoy it what's the problem?", "how can you say it's rubbish if so many people like it"...but I believe that it's the responsibility of producers, DJs and even distributors to strive to maintain the quality of techno - remember that most people who are involved in techno don't do it for the money, they do it for the love...but this degradation of an artform has led to a proliferation of people who've seen that if you follow an easy formula and kiss the right arses, you can make bucks and get people talking about you. That sucks...

It sucks to see ideals go down the pan cos people need to keep the money coming in. I accept that above all other elements in the process, a distributor is a BUSINESS...but take a look at the roster...how much stuff coming out of the two or three main distros in the UK is actually interesting or innovative. 2 or 3 token "experimental" labels each, countless tribal loop clone labels. [stimpy voice]waaaaaah[/stimpy voice].

There are distros that are pushing the good shit.

I do have a lot of respect for Prime, don't get me wrong, but I am not blind to the way they have diluted and essentially damaged techno. Try going to them now with an idea for a new label that's gonna be a bit left of centre without any Beyer or Marco Bailey remixes...they'll turn you away cos it won't sell like it used to. Well...who helped create the market in which innovative music doesn't sell anymore? You guessed it....

rant over.

[death on a stick]

yo, I'm pretty pissed off that I spent an hour writing this and nobody's commented. Mark...you asked what I thought back at the start of the thread...no thoughts on mine?

[Patrick]

Death on a stick ! I was going to say something like "Go preach it from the mountain" when I read your post last night, but I'm inherently lazy and I never got around to typing it. :roll:
So I'm saying it now : Word ! You da man ! I hear and agree with most, in fact possibly all, of what you're saying there. 8)

[gunjack]

You guessed it....

rant over.


it was a good rant son.

[Dustin Zahn]

I agree with most of what you have to say Death, there's a time and place for everything. Granted, I've said I am in the "it's just dance music" mindframe, but I also am diverse enough to really appreciate the "thinking man's techno."

It might be a shame that we can't rely on producers that we used to for this thinking type of techno, but it just challenges you to look harder and find fresh new talent. I've always been a fan of minimal techno, and lately when I want to hear thoughtful techno, I usually turn to minimal. It's not only about what you hear, but what you don't hear.

[Adverse]

that's quite a diversity :wink:

[zaalmoetlos]

i used to like the stuff but i haven't heard a good record on the label(s) for over two years now... don't even listen to them any more

[Dustin Zahn]

that's quite a diversity :wink:

What can I say? I love techno.

[Jimfish]

when i sent them a demo cd for the first time last year they rang me straight up, having never heard of me, to congratulate me for doing somthing they really liked and told me they would like to do somthing with me after xmas.. In that time i got the tracks signed up by other labels and ive been meaning to send them more ever since...
But they have rung me up just to tell me to keep up the good work and give me some words of encouragement etc...which i thought was rather nice...

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?

probably

[miromiric.]

It's not only about what you hear, but what you don't hear.

how true!

[Dustin Zahn]

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?


Why don't you let us people here on the board hear your music and we'll let you know. :)

[Adverse]

here dustin, some of jim's tracks he posted in the filez section :

http://blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1106&sid=2b913ed16a092ff35ff9be691 ffdaa42

[Patrick]

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?


Why don't you let us people here on the board hear your music and we'll let you know. :)

Jimfish, have you got a release on the 1% Production label ?

[MARKEG]

Sorry Death.. It's been a very crazy week... I've just got back from the weekend and I've been meaning to reply to this so here goes!

I actually totally agree with you. Techno used to be soooooo challenging in it's early days. The true meaning of techno was very different then to what it is now. If we're looking at the last 20 years of techno as a whole and you put the last 4 Marco Bailey releases up against that, then Marco Bailey is not techno. The formula in this guys music is so obvious. Yet it doesn't stop me playing it.

This type of Prime/Marco Bailey 'techno' can show people 'the light' that is serious techno. Sure, techno has become 'trancified' in many ways but it has meant that i can play certain styles of techno in clubs that I could never usually play techno at - and convert alot more people into the sound. I like that. Therefore I see Prime's music now as a bridge to something deeper.

I think both me and you know that formulated music is not what techno originally stood for but the fact is, the definition has changed and we're not going to get it back.

When we say 'techno' it now means the 4/4 club stuff??????

When we say 'experimental techno' then that means true techno?????

I dunno.

Perhaps it's time to redefine exactly what experimental sound based 'techno' music is???

[Dustin Zahn]

Sometimes it seems even techno heads don't know what techno is, haha. It's the debate that will never end.

[Adverse]

how many people feel like this is a constructive topic?

personally, i regret starting this one.

i say that techno is not a broad genre in fact it's rather condensed. defining what is real true techno, what a waste of time. sorry.

tell me if i'm wrong but defining things (or trying to) just makes them boring.

[gunjack]

how many people feel like this is a constructive topic?

personally, i regret starting this one.

i say that techno is not a broad genre in fact it's rather condensed. defining what is real true techno, what a waste of time. sorry.

tell me if i'm wrong but defining things (or trying to) just makes them boring.


yeah, i thought this thread was kinda ghey too. i think over specification and speculation kills the purity of action man and you all have kinda talked this one into the ground..... :P

[death on a stick]

how many people feel like this is a constructive topic?
I do. If people read it and are encouraged to look deeper into techno rather than taking the easy access fodder option, it's a positive thing. Stop moaning about people moaning.

[Patrick]

It's a real simple thing, people. If you don't like a thread or find it boring, then don't read it and certainly don't bother contributing with pointless crap like "this is shit". The fact that this topic has now got to page 5 indicates to me that some people at least find it interesting.

[Adverse]

these last two posts the last more than the the second to last show how "edgy" read: whiney, this place has really become..

man talk about daft. i don't know why we can't enjoy techno. instead of beating no, PULVERIZING it with meaningless definitions.

i'll be on my way now.. **** this topic.

[Jimfish]

wots that little arrow thing adverse?
is that summit to do wit the label???

[Jimfish]

it reminds me of the swastika (no offence)

[Jimfish]

....but its pretty cool

[Adverse]

it's the logo for my company omnis music. meaning all directions. i'm thinking about changing it now.. though. i think it rocks. my girlfriend came up with it one evening.

[death on a stick]

these last two posts the last more than the the second to last show how "edgy" read: whiney, this place has really become..
man talk about daft. i don't know why we can't enjoy techno. instead of beating no, PULVERIZING it with meaningless definitions.
Now, let me just get this straight....you started this topic with what's the consensus on this board concerning prime(ate/evil)? then present your own views as i don't enjoy anything out on it & personally i could care less if it existed...and then when some people actually have a discussion about it, which when talking about a subject such as generic, boring, unimaginative music will inevitably involve criticism and dissection...and then you moan about it? Then when the pointlessness of your moaning is pointed out, you go on about people whining???

What is it with this forum? What's the point in asking a loaded question then moaning when people respond to it with some thought and knowledge?

Excuse me, I have to go and agree with some people against my better judgement.

[Patrick]

these last two posts the last more than the the second to last show how "edgy" read: whiney, this place has really become..

man talk about daft. i don't know why we can't enjoy techno. instead of beating no, PULVERIZING it with meaningless definitions.

i'll be on my way now.. **** this topic.

Oh for fcks sake, Adverse, I simply meant that in any thread on any forum, not just this one, a person doesn't need to register their disinterest in a topic - it's a taken as a given by simply not posting. The disinterest is registered by not getting involved.

You will notice I didn't actually comment on any definitoin of techno, meaningless or otherwise, because I personally don't feel the need. In fact, I can't even define my own fcking tastes, so I'm not going to try and define an entire genre.

However, no matter how fcking boring a topic might seem to me or you or anybody else for that matter, I would defend anybodies right to engage in it if they find it interesting. Live and let live is all I'm saying. If that makes me 'whiney' then so be it. :roll:

Cheers anyway, it's a real novel experience to be insulted by the person who started a thread for defending peoples right to contribute to that thread. Can't say I've experienced that one before.

[Adverse]

to patrick... i apologize. you are right and i totally misconstrued your post. honestly i had forgotten the whole reason i wrote this thread and what the original question was. my fault.

to death .. i never moaned about anything. i said that regretted starting the topic and why. i asked a question. then made a comment. i'm sorry.

i come on this forum to talk about techno music. that's why i regret starting this topic.. cause now i come on here and this is the only thread people have been replying too. that's why i regret it.

i'm terribly sick of techno politics.

so in the end i digress and admit my stupidity for starting a techno political discussion. and for calling patrick whiney when he was answering a fair question.

SORRY MATE!

[Jimfish]

Yeah, its pretty groovy, kinda reminds me of an escher thing as well...
So is that what your bird gets up to while you are having all your catnaps?

[Jimfish]

apart from giving me blowjobs obviously :twisted:

[Adverse]

:wink:

[Gandalf The Grey]

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.

Death On A Stick - watch your step. Your negativity and disrespect has been noted. Please read the rules. There will be no more warnings my friend.

Patrick - please try to be a little less hostile. I see you feel you have a point but a little respect for fellow board members goes a long way.