laptops

[Miromiric]

what do i buy? PCs only.
i noticed that prices oscilate ridicolously depending on how much RAM they got. same configuration with 512 is like 400€ more expensive then those wit 256. i can easily buy 256 extra and install i reckon.
i found few configurations that seem ok price/performancewise:

Fujitsu Siemens AMILO L-6825, Combo Intel Celeron 2.8GHz, 15'' XGA display, 256 MB RAM, 30 GB HDD, DVD/CD-RW drive,integrated audio / modem / LAN, Win XP Home + Works 7.0


Fujitsu Siemens Amilo M-7400, Intel Celeron M 1.3 GHz, 15'' XGA display, 256 MB RAM, 30GB HDD, CDRW/DVD,integrated Intel WLAN /audio / modem / LAN, Win XP Home

Toshiba Satellite A60-662 Intel Celeron 2.8 GHz, 15.0"TFT(1024x768), 512MB DDR RAM, 40 GB HDD, DVD-R/-RW, ATI M RADEON 7000IGP(64MB), Eth LAN, Fax mod. TV-out, FIR, i.LINK, Win XP Home

Toshiba Satellite Pro A60-372 Cel 2.8G/256/40/15"ATiRad7000-64MB/V.90/LAN/firewire/CDRW-DVD/XPP

[g]

assuming this is primarily for music, you don't want any of those celeron-based machines

[Miromiric]

music, playing morrowind and watching porn.
why not celeron?

[detfella]

I have read on forums to avoid celery for some reason or other (maybe getting phased out by intel).

I was speaking to the guy from refx a while back and he said amd cpu's were the best for audio production (allows more instances of plug-ins anyway). still that didn't stop me from buying a P4 (i reckon they're all the same at the end of the day)

[Miromiric]

well, i just want a system i can preserve stabile. playing out will be the only function of this cpu. so i need something that doesnt heat and freeze, thats all really.

[Internal Error Records]

well, i just want a system i can preserve stabile. playing out will be the only function of this cpu. so i need something that doesnt heat and freeze, thats all really.

no laptops are stable while playing live. no laptop has a 3 plug with a 'gound wire' and strong electro magnetic fields cause by tons of speakers, amps and unsheilded cables make laptops VERy unpredictable.

if you must go the path of a laptop, whatever you buy, always place it as far from any sound gear and wires as possible.

[Miromiric]

i must go the laptop path. the archangel sent me the mssg i must.
maybe this is ok, i have no clue about macs:
iBook G4 14" 1.0 GHz, 256 MB/60 GB/ Combo

[BombJack]

Miromiric - Laptops are quality - don't believe the guys that knock 'em.
More and more touring djs are playing out live using Final Scratch, so they must be getting more reliable. They can still be a bit unpredictable, but well worth the investment.

About 6 months ago, I was in the same position as you. It took me probably about 3 months to finally decide what route to go down.

You have 3 realistic options before you...

a) By a mac Powerbook (at an incredibly inflated price.) Bear in mind that apple bulletproof stability is no longer what it was...

b) By an Intel Centrino based machine

c) by a P4 or AMD driven machine.


Things to consider are what you plan on using it for. Centrinos offer tremendous battery life, and much lower fan noise as they operate at a lower temperature, and hence offer a very portable solution. However in opposition to these benefits are the fact that processing capability, when compared pound for pound/dollar for dollar with Intel P4s is not favourable. Also, Centrinos are significantly more expensive. The fastest Centrinos cannot compete at all with the fastest P4s, so if you basically want a Desktop replacement machine, you should maybe be looking at a P4. P4s probably offer a more stable environment as they providepotentially faster processingbut P4s have their problems too. Fast processing means a very hot processor, which in turn means the fan coming on all the time, and possibly producing a lot of noise. Additionally, the keypad may get quite warm as a result of all this heat. A noisy fan can be major problem if you are recording from microphones etc in the same room as your lappie. Something to consider...

Also, key to good performance with audio in is hard drive speed. Most models kicking about just now have hd speeds of 4200 rpm, or 5400 rpm.
Try and get as fast a hard drive as you can. My machine has a 7200rpm 60gb hd, but I think you can get hd that run at 9400rpm, though you will be paying through the nose for this kind of performance, and it will most likely be a noisy bastard!!!

Celerons, and AMD based systems I don't know too much about. Celerons appear to be the budget alternative, and AMDs get mixed reviews. Some people absolutely love their AMD machines - very fast processing at a very reasonable price. Somethign to consider though is that P4s seem to be the preffered platform that Steinberg use to build Cubase. As far as I know, AMDs aren't used, and hence this is why AMD machines can prove to be a bit less stable than comparable Pentium systems.

Another thing to consider is upgrade path. If you plan on having your machine for a good amount of time, it possibly makes sense to give yourself a good option for upgradeing. What you need the machine to do today, may not be exactly the same as what you want it to do in a months time. This is where Celerons let themselves down. I was very close to buying one, thinking that I could buy an entry level Celeron machine, and in a years time upgrade to a faster chip in a years, when the prices beging to come down. The problem with most entry level Centrino systems is that You can only upgrade to a 2 ghz centrino chip. This is because all the subsequent chips operate at a differrent voltage (or something) meaning that if you want to upgrade to a 2ghz+ chip, you will most likely need to replace your motherboard as well. Considering the entry level Centrinos come in at 1.5 ghz, it doesn't leave a hell of a lot of space to manouver if you ever want tremendous processing power.

Bare in mind that also it helps if you have a good graphics card in your machine. If you are using it to do audio, this will obviously free up CPU for running your audio programs and plugins.


So, finally I decided to go for a Pentium P4 system.
I purchased my machine from a UK company - www.NuSystems.co.uk
and wasn't dissappointed. Very friendly service, and almost always very quick with any replies to my queries via email.

My system spec - P4 3 ghz. 512meg, 128meg graphics, 60gb 7200rpm HD.

Nusystems are computer audio specialists, and also do tweaks to XP and the BIOS (I think...) to provide optimum performance when using audio programs. Additionally I asked them to give my machine a "dual-boot" set-up. Essentially a dual boot system is one where you have 2 versions of your operating system on your machine. For example I have an "Audio" boot partition which sets my machine up for optimal audio performance, but I also have a "General" boot partition which is set up for general web surfing, and game playing.

There are other good audio specialist builders, like red sub, millenium, and alienware make specialist machines with quality components, but you they are all really expensive. The aftercare with these guys is probably second to none however. I don't know for sure. I haven't had to use any aftercare with Nusystems because I haven't had a problem in the 3 months I've had it.

Obviously 60gb for a hard drive isn't a lot of space so I want santa to bring me a nice big 200gb external drive, and definitely another 512 meg ram. The 512 I currently have is ok, but for running high CPU programs like any of the Spectrasonics VST plugs, you really need the extra memory.

One last thing to think about, and this is where things do complicate further is your soundcard. There are a good few on the market suitable for use with a laptop, and they also vary wildly depending on what you plan on doing. They can be quite an additional spend though.


The best thing to do is set yourself a budget ceiling, and then tailor what you want respective of whether you can afford it or not. Remember, bits and pieces like memory you can always buy yourself from Crucial or the like, further down the line when you have more money. You don't need to buy it all at once from the same shop, as they will take their skin from any component used to make up your machine, and hence bumping up the price...

I hope this gives you some food for thought. Do your research like I did, and you will always be more comfortable with what you eventually buy, and less likely to get the "buyer's remorse". check out Sound on Sound forum for further research - always a good place to pick up tips...
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum

I'm away for a sleep - my brain's fried.....

BombJack

[g]

centrinos are often faster or at least as fast as pentiums. multiply a centrino clock speed by 1.6-1.8 in order to get an equivalent pentium speed.

centrinos are not significantly more expensive. shop around.

i'm not taking the time to look but i don't think 9400rpm drives even exist. regardless, check out barefeats.com & you'll see that in many instances 5400rpm laptop drives actually outperform 7200rpm drives. 7200 is nice but 5400 is plenty. if you run into track count/plug-in problems with a 5400 i would then instead recommend a 7200 firewire external. cheaper and a hell of a lot more storage for your $.

centrinos are consumer chips that use processing power for low level system stuff. not good for audio.

AMD chips kick ass, often much more so than pentiums. check out the "LIVE 4 PERFORMANCE TEST" thread in the Ableton forum for some really good, up to date info on this.

as far as upgrades, that 2ghz centrino chip is already faster than your 3ghz pentium out of the box. and the newer centrinos have a larger L2 cache.

everyone's comfortable with different things, but i would never buy a computer from a place "specicalizing" in audio machines. that's just marketing fluff that you pay more $ for. spend 20 minutes doing the things recommended at musicxp.net and you have a 'music optimized' machine... without paying luxury tax from one of these Specialists. bs.

if so desired, setting up a dual boot machine is also very simple. you can easily do it with the standard xp install discs or you can use something like Partition Magic and Boot Magic.

[Miromiric]

i am using this laptop for only one application only anyway. what i can see for now is that you basically pay for brand, since internal hardware comes from the same firms.
is there anyone who can share his/her personal experiences?

[g]

i know a lot of people, esp pro tools users, who have a lot of success with the Dell 8600 (centrino)

if i were shopping i would probably consider an HP zv5000z (Athlon)

[Dustin Zahn]

i am using this laptop for only one application only anyway. what i can see for now is that you basically pay for brand, since internal hardware comes from the same firms.
is there anyone who can share his/her personal experiences?

I've went through about a couple laptops in a few years. Like a lot of the guys stated before, there is a lot to look for when choosing the right computer. I used to own a Sager, but it burned up on me and they deemed it my fault. Although that really pissed me off, I've heard tons of praise about those guys otherwise. Up until recently, they actually had the exact same hardware in their computers as Alienware for around 1/2 to 2/3 of the price!

Next, being a cheap ass I went with another budget laptop. I went to www.internetishop.com and got my current laptop (which the power source is currently dead and I have no comp). For $1,100us in Feb. 2003 I got a 2.4ghz, 60gb hd, 512 ram, and 14" screen laptop. Not bad. Unfortunately, I had to sacrifice a few things...no internal battery, no internal wifi, and it was pretty bulky and heavy. Those few things saved me around $1,000-2000 though. I knew I wouldn't need a battery much (long car rides or flights), but it could be remedied usually with a power converter (from DC to AC). At the time WiFi wasn't really in my sights either. So, based on those assumptions...coupled with the fact that I knew my laptop would often grace smokey clubs and studios, I decided to get a cheaper PC laptop in case shit happened (and it always does).

Once again, I had a bunch of problems with my laptop. The CD burner went out, 2 USB (of 4) ports stopped working, and finally my power source just went. Everyone else who bought from this company (Adam Jay and others) have had great luck with their laptops. I must say, when it was running it usually ran damn fine.

In short, you need to figure out what you need exactly and what you're willing to sacrifice. It sounds like you just need a basic laptop that will run Ableton decently and get you through a long weekend. In that case I'd probably get a cheaper laptop with a P4 chip (**** the extra battery life, take the power instead), WiFi built-in (wonderful for airports and cafes when away from home), and at least 2 or 3 USB ports.

If the harddrive is slow I would recommend getting an external hard drive that uses both firewire and USB 2.0 as its nice to have options. Plus, if your laptop goes to hell you can just take the external and hook it up to a new computer. I bought an additional 80GB extermal with USB 2 and Firewire for around $120 US, it's a life saver a couple times over already.

And finally, if you're looking to get the best bang for your buck...thinkpads and Vaio's may not have the fastest and newest components but the quality and stability make up for the small loss in performance.

[Ritzi Lee]

regarding what yo are using:
your first choices are great.
the centrino's are also nice.
but forget about the celeron-crap!
only the real intel pentium for speed in processing / rendering.


the speaches about ableton / finalscratch is all in the past.
we allready know this. :)


just get yourself a funk-ass system and rock!

[BombJack]

I have to disagree with g on the centrino performance issue.
It is entirely dependant on what you will be using the machine for.
Like I said, I was researching what laptop to buy for approxiamtely 3 months. There were those that said that centrinos were a very worthwhile option - see Martin Walkers comments on the Sound on Sound website.
However, the majority of the opinions I found were that the comparably, pound for pound/dollar for dollar, p4s out perform Centrinos. As for a 2 Ghz Centrino outperforming a 3ghz Pentium, that is debatable. Not neccessarily untrue, but debatable. The main thing for me when comparing these 2 chips was the cost. At the time a 1.7 ghz Centrino system was about £100-£150 more expensive than a P4 3ghz.
And before anyone says any different, I say this from personal experience.

As for Audio specialists,a nd whether you should buy a machine from one, I would say it probably depends on what level of computing aptitude you are at. Most Audio specialists do charge overly inflated prices - see Red Sub etc etc. However you pay most of this extra cash for excellent aftercare. Something which doesn't happen with the likes of Dell etc etc. (This opinion not from my experience but from others on other laptop forums...). Nusystems, the company I mentioned before have significantly lower prices than the likes of Red Sub, but are audio/multimedia specialists - so if you have limited experience at least they should know what they are doing. And, if anything goes wrong regarding sound card problems, etc etc at least you have somone on the end of the phone that has half a clue as to what you are talking about....


Just my expererience...

BombJack

[The Teknoist.]

try www.red-sub.co.uk

[The Teknoist.]

try www.sub.co.uk

[Miromiric]

IBM thinkpad 550e with centrino 1,5 just came in my house ! :love:

[Ritzi Lee]

IBM thinkpad 550e with centrino 1,5 just came in my house ! :love:

congratz!!

[g]

very nice. ibm makes quality stuff. supposedly you can stand on that machine. because of course that is of great import when it comes to laptops.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

http://www.alienware.co.uk/Product_Pages/workstation_audio.aspx

these r supposed to b the shit for music