Master Techniques.

[acidchild]

OK, so what do you guys do to get proper mastered tracks? I myself use IK Multimedia's T-Racks suit. Just curious if any of you have any tricks to share. As alot fo you know by the tracks i put up, my mastering skills are not quite up to suff yet=o] Any ideas to help out?

[audioinjection]

usually we let a professional do it

most mastering houses are properly configured specifically for mastering, and use mainly custom made hardware processors for it.

[acidchild]

See...i don't have that type of money laying around. Anyway, i prefer to do it myself. That's how you learn=o]

[TechMouse]

My advice for mastering, is to apply EQ and compression judiciously to each and every track in your mix, and also the whole mix, until it sounds as good as it possibly can. Simple as that.

[acidchild]

I don't make my tracks *track by track*. I record the whole damn thing as 1 stereo wave file. I'm serious when i say i don't use computers to make music. My mixer goes right into a mini disc recorder=o]

My main problem seems to be punch and volume. I can get a loud mix, but i have to level it till the peaks of the wave form are flat, if you know when i mean. Eh..i'll just keep practicing on loops until i figure it out=o]

[tocsin]

Buy a hardware compressor and hopefully you have EQ on a mixing board. If not, buy one of those two. You should be able to get both, if need be, for just about $200 US.

[Miromiric]

or buy cubase.
recording all into one stereo file is just plain silly.
can you post a short clip of your tune?

[acidchild]

It may be plain silly, but it's cost effective. Like i sad, i don't have the money for a $600 mixer and a $400 sound card to record multi-track audio. Just not gonna happen for quite a while.
Here is one of them...
here (http://www.computer-controlled.com/computer%20controlled/Music/Computer_Controlled-113_Acid_remix_2.mp3)

[Debroglie]

Here's an idea and maybe a good experiment that I've done on some tracks when I was on a budget , sub mix your trax into 3 groups Hi,mid and lows the send eack bus out into a three channel DJ mixer and work the crap out of it until you get the EQ and levels right as well you can always use old amps and home setreo eqs laying around for addition. I know a lot pros who use these techniques even to today. but when you can I recommend getting a comp and some other real gear

I know your on a budget and everyone has been there but "if there is a will there's way" :)

[acidchild]

Definatly, i have a comp...just not a good sound card. Here is my current set up...

TB-303
TR-505
TR-707
FB-383
DRM 2 minisyncussion
A4000 sampler
Electrix EQ Killer
dbx 266 compressor
Behringer EX3200
and a Tascam MM 1 mixer

I have the mains from the mixer going through the Behringer and into the Electrix EQ Killer, then into my "moniters". The 2nd outputs go into my MD recorder. I have no inserts on this mixer. I have all my BD samples from the sampler coming out their own output and into 1 channel of the compressor. The DRM on the 2nd channel. Sometimes i run my 303 into one of the inputs on the sampler to run thru effects, as i have no dedicated efex unit right now. I've been out of work for quite a few months, but just started a new job today...so i'll be able to afford new items soon. Top of my list:

New Mixer
New sound card
New Moniters

That's about it.

[Debroglie]

considering the amount of gear you have especially the sampler , I would try and use it to it's full potential at this point , and I know that can be tedious but production wise you can do a lot with just the sampler by mixing down loops of stuff in your track and just use the EFX and EQ in your sampler and remaster each thing and send it out individual outputs and re-compress if need be and keep rebuilding the track until you acheive the sound your looking for :)

[g]

hell, beg borrow steal.. get yourself a mixer. i'm about to send you one myself just cuz i spend (part of) my summers in wisconsin ;)

saving that, get a cheap sequencer... like one of those old yamaha qy things. qy70 if memory serves? you'd be shocked how much you can get out that and a mixer. it would change your world.

[acidchild]

Actually, i have an MMT-8, i just forgot to post it=o] I use Techno Toys' SEQ-303 to work out sequences for the 383, then record them into the Alesis.

[acidchild]

Derp..i have an Atari Mega ST2 as well. I go back and forth between using that for my MIDI sequencing...and using the 505 to sequence my drum samples.

Here is a shot of my set from about a year ago.
http://www.computer-controlled.com/computer%20controlled/My-Pics/images/Front%20View%202.jpg

And a live shot from around the same time.
http://www.computer-controlled.com/computer%20controlled/My-Pics/images/000_0396.JPG

My set up is basically the same. Take away the Yamaha AN200 and replace it with the FB-383. And a Philtre ModFX pedal and the EQ Killer and the Behringer unit is all new.

[The Teknoist.]

mastering should not be done in the home. You can even levels out and stuff but mastering is no joke and is a bit of a dark science. Get somone experienced to do mastering. It takes a lot more than just sticking the Waves Ultramaximizer on your track to master it properly.

Mixing Pop Vocals: ;)

If you wanna mix vocals in a pop stylee into your track then heres a handy tip. When you've eq'd and compressed the vocal to the desired level you'll be wanting to stick it in the mix with the rest of the tune. Start with the fader at the bottom so its silent. Push the fader up until the vocal is at an audible level in the tune. There is a point when the vocals start to sound too loud and sound like they're fighting with the mix. So obviously the thing to do is turn them down, but then they don't seem to be loud enough. So you push em back up and they just sound too loud and are really ruining you're lovely mix. Now heres the trick. Get the vocal up in the mix where its really ruining everything by being too loud, then turn it UP by about 3db and it will slot in to place perfectly PROVIDING you've done you're eq and compression properly. A good way to test the balance is by turning the volume of your speakers all the way down so its real super quiet and all you should be able to hear is the drums/beats and the vocal line hissing away. It seems unnatural and if you're not used to mixing music with vocals in it then it will seem REALLY weird, but it works and if you listen to most pop music down really quiet, like on the radio or something, you'll notice that most of it comes down to beats and vocals.

Probably not that relevant as most if us will chop up vocals and mix it like part of the beats, but yeah.. I thought it was interesting when I was shown this technique..

[Jimfish]

Id say a good place to start is not recording straight to minidisc.. its not the greatest format! Thought about DAT??

[acidchild]

Hmm...funny. I dont use Waves plug ins. And mastering sure as hell can be done at home. I know quite a few people who achieve fantastic results on their own. As far as getting experience...what do you think all this is??=o] Getting experience ;) Funny you mention pop vocals as i had Christina Aguilara over lastnight doing alot of screaming... :shock:



DAT: Thought about...would love to get one as they are cheap enough now...just haven't gotten around to it=o]

[sash]

try puttin a limiter at the end of your processing chain and give it about 6db boost.

[The Teknoist.]

Hmm...funny. I dont use Waves plug ins. And mastering sure as hell can be done at home. I know quite a few people who achieve fantastic results on their own. As far as getting experience...what do you think all this is??=o] Getting experience ;) Funny you mention pop vocals as i had Christina Aguilara over lastnight doing alot of screaming... :shock:



DAT: Thought about...would love to get one as they are cheap enough now...just haven't gotten around to it=o]

Yeah most people i know can get fantastic results in the home but are always bettered if done in a purpose built studio.

[acidchild]

Oh, for sure. It'll be nice when i can finally get to that stage=o]

[DJZeMigL]

sorry m8, there is no discussion possible about how much better a mastering will sound when donne properly by the right people at the right place. It's all they do in they're lives all they're lives, also they have a very objective hear whilst we are 2 attached 2 each and every sound so we tend 2 not take right decisions like leaving certain sounds out or very low in the mix or eq. a certain way.
Mind u we're not discussing price, mind u that I've talked about some1 how really knows what he is doing...

On the other hand we all want 2 learn and achieve the best result possible at the prodution stage.. but there is a very fine balance between making it a little better and overdoing it (ending up with a dead track! :( )

So what can u do 2 make yer sound better... first concentrate as much as u can on make yer sounds as correctly leveled as possible (ex. if we need a really loud kick most of times we over do it by about 6-8 dbs... try muting and unmuting 2 check levels)... keep and eye on yer VU and try lowering the levels of the most important sound in yer mix, use the mute 2 make sure u can hav' em lounder or lower with out losing the impact u want but also with out making it scream!! If u need go back and program the midi velocity, patterns etc.. so the sound level is more steady.

if u have a compressor on yer kicks (or other sounds), every time u have a break or some silent bits, play the sounds 1-2 bars b4 u want' em in the mix, but have the fader muted, now release the mute only when they should come in... this avoid the first sound which generally "overshoots" the comp (depending on the attack/ thresh/ ration settings of course)... try and have a very steady level on the overal mix, u can also overdrive the master a little bit 2 get some very very lite distortion/ limiting which will in a way kill some mad peaks and make yer track sound slightly sweeter...

hope this helps..


if u can't get a dat get a cd-r... MD is just no good!


Z

[Mindful]

So how should i be presenting my tracks to the dude doing the mastering?
Should i turn up with my tracks as good sounding as i can get it to my ears on dat or cd?
(i only have a CDR)and he/she will make it sound as good as they can :?:

[The Teknoist.]

try subtractive eq-ing.

[DJZeMigL]

"...So how should i be presenting my tracks to the dude doing the mastering?
Should i turn up with my tracks as good sounding as i can get it to my ears on dat or cd? ..."


DAT is generally better but lost of ppl are working more with Cd now, so it is just fine.. ... Try doing very lite tweaks 2 yer master (so u don't fuc* up, also this way u keep learning) and always keep a raw (unmastered version). U can even b a sneaky little bast*rd and give in the mastered one hear the comments and then so.. ohhh my god what a mistake that was just a test cd, my bad ;) .. here's the "real" final version (raw)... :)

Z

[Mindful]

;) cheers Mig L
what about compression on the master i know theres a lot of info in the old post but so much information hurts my head after a while
what do you mean by subtractive eq-ing Teknoist(is that Mike :?: )

[DJZeMigL]

basically go the correct way about eq. i.e. don't add gain 2 the freq. u want 2 enhace, cut a little bit of the others... the "simple" theory about it is that we luv LOUD so when u crank up a bit it always sounds nicer that b4, so it's hard 2 eq!

Comp. make sure u don't reduce 2 much... up till 3-4 db of comp (gain redution max)... use more of the "overdrive2 technique.

I know some old school producers still send the master out of they're studio mixers into a channel of they're OLD analog Dj mixers and crank up the gain, go about the same with the master on it.. and just reduce the input on the dat so it doesn't clip... the thing is they luv the "warmth" that this sort of mild distortion adds 2 the sound .. also they're effectively doing a bit o limiting on the peaks, as a result the average level of they're mixers increases quite a bit...!!!

Z

[Mindful]

"overdrive2 technique :eh: :?:

[Mindful]

I know some old school producers still send the master out of they're studio mixers into a channel of they're OLD analog Dj mixers and crank up the gain, go about the same with the master on it.. and just reduce the input on the dat so it doesn't clip... the thing is they luv the "warmth" that this sort of mild distortion adds 2 the sound .. also they're effectively doing a bit o limiting on the peaks, as a result the average level of they're mixers increases quite a bit...!!!

sounds cool will be playing with this tonight
cheers Z ;)

[DJZeMigL]

sorry ... fingers faster than the eye!! lol ...
I ment...

"overdrive" technique....

example 1...
"...send the master out of they're studio mixers into a channel of they're OLD analog Dj mixers and crank up the gain, go about the same with the master on it.. and just reduce the input on the dat so it doesn't clip... the thing is they luv the "warmth" that this sort of mild distortion adds 2 the sound .. also they're effectively doing a bit o limiting on the peaks, as a result the average level of they're mixers increases quite a bit...!!! ..."

so in fact u are "overdriving" the mixer's channel with it's gain/ trim and also with the master


example 2 ..
"...u can also overdrive the master a little bit 2 get some very very lite distortion/ limiting which will in a way kill some mad peaks and make yer track sound slightly sweeter... "
basically the same but on yer studio mixer. send all yer tracks 2 a sub (and make sure u kill those tracks and the sub from the master) use it's direct out and bring it back in on a stereo channel overdrive a bit with the gain/ trim pot, send (only) that channel 2 the master.. record the output!

Z

[acidchild]

example 2 ..
"...u can also overdrive the master a little bit 2 get some very very lite distortion/ limiting which will in a way kill some mad peaks and make yer track sound slightly sweeter... "
basically the same but on yer studio mixer. send all yer tracks 2 a sub (and make sure u kill those tracks and the sub from the master) use it's direct out and bring it back in on a stereo channel overdrive a bit with the gain/ trim pot, send (only) that channel 2 the master.. record the output!

Z


This sounds like a swell idea! When i get my new mixer, i will have to give this a try!

[j_s]

basically go the correct way about eq. i.e. don't add gain 2 the freq. u want 2 enhace, cut a little bit of the others... the "simple" theory about it is that we luv LOUD so when u crank up a bit it always sounds nicer that b4, so it's hard 2 eq!

Z

I've never really got my around why subtractive EQ is better than additive...

For example, sure pulling down all frequencies other than, say, 500hz (7 turning the channel up again) would be exactly the same as just boosting the 500...

Or am I missing the point and the idea behind subtractive EQing is only dropping the freqs that are absolutely unnecessary & keeping the 'neutral' parts of the sound in?

[DJZeMigL]

it's better cause it's technically easier 2 cut without adding much noise than boosting!

Also it's harder for us 2 decide what sounds better when the louder u get the "better" it generally sounds (even if it doesn't)...

Z