Sidechaining?

[Scott Kemix]

Hi all,

Wonderin if anyone has any knowledge or other techniques on the best way to sidechain a kick and bass together through a compressor?

Much appreciated.
Scott.

[Evil G]

are you talking about signal routing, or compressor settings, or both?

[Scott Kemix]

it must come under signal routing

[Evil G]

you can create an aux send from your kick drum to the compressor sidechain, or you can use a second kick that mirrors the first and goes to the compressor's sidechain input but doesn't actually make any sound of its own. the latter is handy when you want the sidechain effect to still be active even when you mute the kick drum.

if your mixer doesn't have any free aux sends, but your drum machine is stereo, you can route one channel to an audio channel on the mixer and the other directly into the bassline's compressor sidechain.

there may be other ways too, depending on what your setup is.

[Scott Kemix]

Thank you Evil G, will give that a go. So, does the both sidechain inserts (L & R) on a compressor act as inputs?

Cheers man
Scott :clap:

[Evil G]

the sidechains will behave differently depending on whether you are in stereo or dual mono mode. if you are compressing a kick and a bass each in mono, then you will only need to feed the sidechain on the half where the bass goes. if you are running in stereo, you will need to feed the same signal to both sidechains.

another (geekier) option would be to run a cable out of the sidechain of one compressor and into the other, but this will not work unless you unwire one end of the cable and hook it up in reverse. normally sidechains work like inserts - they send on one channel and return on the other over a stereo cable. to get the send from the kick to register as the receive of the bass (instead of showing up on the bass's send) you would have to switch the connector around.

[loopdon]

in fruity loops you can use the peak contoller to emulate sidechaining....


if interested, i will explain

[Scott Kemix]

cheers again Evil G, loopdon could you explain a method using cubase sx?

[loopdon]

cheers again Evil G, loopdon could you explain a method using cubase sx?

maybe using plugs such as:

http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/index.html#c3

http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/soft/SideChComp.zip

Type: Free Sidechain Comp

for stereo
input ch1: signal input L
input ch2: signal input R
input ch3: key input L
input ch4: key input R
for mono
input ch1: signal input
input ch2: key input

or:

Sidekick

http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~jorn0/sidekick/


as i'm no cubase-user i just googled up things:

http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58551&highlight=sidechaini ng

[Scott Kemix]

cheers loopdon your a star, will check these links out. :clap:

[loopdon]

Those were the free ones i know...

Here's some more expensive ones:

dB-D dynamics processor

Type:

Compressor, limiter, expander, gate and brickwall limiter with true sidechains

dB-D is a pro quality general purpose dynamics plugin. The intuitive realtime interface shows you exactly what's going on, and with advanced features like autogain makeup, variable soft knee, and accurate metering with peak hold, it offers you superb control over the sound.

The unique side chain feature (which requires a multi track application like Cubase or Cakewalk) lets you perform tricks like ducking and synchronized gating, normally only possible with external hardware.

The no-distortion brickwall limiter in the output stage means you can experiment with ANY settings (even huge gain values and long attack times) without fear of blasting your speakers!

With a pro quality algorithm using full 64 bit internal processing, this is the only compressor you will need!

Demo download (pack containing other plugs as well):

http://www.shareit.com/demoreg.html?productid=132347&languageid=1

How to make it work:

Side-chains for ducking
Say you have a bassline on channel 1, and the kick on channel 3:

Open a first dB-D insert effect on channel 3

Set the Send button to A

Open a second dB-D insert effect on channels 1

Setup as a 3:1 ratio compressor, threshold -30dB, gain 0dB ; experiment here

Set the Recv button to A

and that's it! Channel 3 (kickdrum) is now controlling the dB-D on channels 1 (bassline)

easy, innit? :cool:


Waves also has a sidechain-comp on offer:

C1

The ultimate dynamic equalizer, and father of the C4. Select any frequency range, then compress, expand, limit, or gate those frequencies. Simply an astonishing dynamic EQ, with phase compensation for transparency and quality. The C1 is a frequency-selective dynamic processor allowing two simultaneous dynamic processes. It is an expert tool for any application requiring compression, expansion or gating. Select any frequency range, then apply a dynamic process to that range, or use as a traditional wideband device. C1 offers mono and stereo capabilities of the compressor and/or the gate.


http://www.waves.com

[Scott Kemix]

Nice one Loopdon,

Do you know the process setting up a sidechain (kick and bass) with the waves c1 compressor? i.e kick on channel 1 and bass on 4 for example?

Cheers
Scott.

[loopdon]

not done it myself. with the db-d plug it's easy.

that's what i googled up for the waves c1:

1)add a stereo group track.

2) add the C1 comp-sc as an insert device on the group channel.

3) Now we start the routing. In the inspector, Set the output of the synth's AUDIO channel to the input of the group and set the pan to hard right.

4) For the drum's audio channel put in a pre-fader send to the group (in the channel settings window). Make sure that the send is "on" and that the send level is raised to at least 0db. Now pan the send to hard left (the pan parameter is only visible on the send when in routing mode, found in the little black box at the top right of the channel settings window) We want this to be pre-fader so we can turn down this channel's fader and not change the send's level to the group (compressor).

5) play back, if everything is set up correctly you should hear the synth on the right, the drums on both left and right (although slightly higher volume on the left ( now that it is going through 2 channels). If the group's fader is turned down all the way then the synth should not be heard and the kick (if mono) should be equal on both sides.

6) Now to set up the compressor. For "EQ mode" select "sidechain". For "key mode" select "L --> R" , this sets the kick as the sidechain key and the synth's signal as what is to be controlled by the key.

By the way it's the same procedure for using SX vocoder with an external signal

[Scott Kemix]

thank you very much mate, and nice one for taking the time to reply.

;) :clap:

[Greg Dee]

can you explain how to do it in fruity loopdon?

[loopdon]

yes ;)

1. put an instance of the fruity 'peak controller plug' on the fx channel of your kick. uncheck the 'mute' button, if you want to hear the kick!

2. now do a right-click on the volume knob of the bassline (or anything else you want to sidechain) and select 'Link to Controller'

3. In the dialog- window 'Remote Control Settings' popping up, select
'Peak ctrl 'your kick fx channel here' -Peak
and from the 'Mapping-Formula' Dropdown menu select: 'Inverted'

4. whilst playing, adjust the Base/Vol/ and TNS controls to your needs in the upper part of the peak controller plugin

5. you should then see (and hear) the volume knob of the bassline ducking with every kick ;)


If anything has been left unexplained, just ask me :cool:

[Greg Dee]

:clap:

thanks! are there other things such as hi-hats or other elements that can benefit from sidechaining as well?

[loopdon]

:clap:

thanks! are there other things such as hi-hats or other elements that can benefit from sidechaining as well?

rides for example are often sidechained to a kick...

just try things, hats and percs or pads can work sidechained as well

[Greg Dee]

nice! thanks for the tip

[loopdon]

nice! thanks for the tip

have you given that a try, m8?

[Greg Dee]

nice! thanks for the tip

have you given that a try, m8?


giving it a try right now!

[Scott Kemix]

Yo loopdon, still need help!

I am tryin to sidechain using my hardware compressors, but still had no joy. When i plug my bassline signal into the sidechain of the compressor (kick), it cuts out the signal? Is ducking the same as sidechaining?

Help please
:doh:

[xfive]

You got it backwards man - plug a copy of the kick output into the bass sidechain input. :)

[Scott Kemix]

Nice one dude, do i plug into one side of the sidechain or both?

[xfive]

hmmm you must be using a stereo compressor. Since you are dealing with bass and kicks leave it all in mono.

[Scott Kemix]

cheers man, will give that a pop.

Scott.

www.fatcollective.com

[loopdon]

sorry, scott, i don't know much bout hardware.. :roll: ;)

[loopdon]

nice! thanks for the tip

have you given that a try, m8?


giving it a try right now!

tell me bout your results, m8 :cool:

[Greg Dee]

ill post em up a little later...im having too much fun with this haha.