Label Design???!!!

[MARKEG]

I thought it'd be really good to give people tips/discuss how to design a centre label and a sleeve/cover for a record label. There's so many different ways... what are you supposed to do if you haven't got a clue???!!! Is there a quick way anyone can suggest? How do you guys do it (those that have a label)? How did you learn?

Does anyone have any good tips for those who know/those who dont know? Perhaps a guide for completely new people who want to design their own label? Or let's just talk technical and get into the deep aspects of design?

[baptismo]

for our label's first release we couldnt afford middle labels or sleeves, so we went for the cheap option of priniting out 500 labels from a computer and sticking them on! But im really interested to know how others do this, do people make use of pressing houses printing services?

[Jimfish]

yeah, i want to know how to make the writing go around in a circle using photoshop 7.....anybody know??

[Jimfish]

for a start, use a high resolution - loads of people forget that...

find out exactly what format the manufacturer wants it in

dont forget to let the colour bleed a few mm off each side and do an x dead centre

find someone you know to give you some templeates...if you dont know anyone, I'll send you some...

If the distributer needs a barcode you can download a smple barcode making tool that lets you export barcodes in jpeg format. Do a search for 'barcodem' on google

and dont forget your catalog number

If you are designing your logo aswell try to keep it as crisp and simple as possible - remember that some people will use it opn flyers etc and it will probably only be as big as yer little toe-nail - so you need it to look sweet even tiny like that - which a really complex one will not!

Try dropping a little shaddow behind main bold text for a bit of sheen..

errr.cant think of anything else now, besides which i need to take a dump....i'm sure i'll think for more while im sqeezin one out though!

[MARKEG]

Methodixx, Detfella and Log:one I'm sorry to delete what you put. But this is about label design. What you wrote wasn't really relavent.

Has anyone got any tips/suggestions on how to design you sleeve/centre labels for a record label?

[Adverse]

way to save the post captain :). let me think of some stuff i've learned.

[Jimfish]

heres one i learned the other day..

if you are printing up sleeves get em to turn the sleeves inside out before printing for that nice 'organic' feel to the cover....its de nutz!

examples of this can be seen on Adverse or drumworks...

[miasma man]

Some tips that may be of help:

Start off with the circle or square template for the centre of the record or the sleeve. The final shape will influence a lot how the final design finishes.

I also start freehand sketching with pad and pencil. I can't design with a computer, the computer is merely a slave that helps me present my thoughts. No matter how loose and sketchy the preliminary design is if you have the picture of what you want to see in your head starting to come together on a pad of paper you can then transfer it to the computer and make it better. I sometimes scan in my sketches and literally trace over it with the drawing tools on the computer, arcs, lines etc. and then develop it further.

I have CD templates but no actual record templates - Jimfish if you have some vinyl size templates I could really really use these. Please contact me - oh yeah to get text in photoshop to curve you need to WARP it. When using the text tool, go to the top toolbar, there is a little T with a arc under it. Click on this and you have loads of crazy things you can do to the text.

Sorry, on with the programme.

I think you also need to understand the differences between VECTOR and BITMAP graphics. Bitmap are just pixels as displayed on the screen - therefore if you zoom into it the image will lose defination, it will look like it is breaking up and getting pixellated, the image is not as sharp as it should be. Vector graphics use a proper mathematical formula to calculate and form the image (curves, straight lines etc). This means that everytime you zoom into it the formula is recalculated for this zoom and the defination is not lost and the image remains crystal clear whatever the zoom. Conclusion vector graphics should be used as much as possible. If you scan an image in it will be a bitmap graphic and there are going to be chances where it will become fuzzy.

Ah man, I could write for years on drawing, techniques, perspectives, art movements (Cubism is great) I love it. Wanted to make it my life but am now getting disillusioned by the bolshoi business side of things. I can if I can be my own boss. The thing is I have to go right now as I am busy.

Mark and Chrissi I'm gonna send you an email to see if I can help further.

Hope this helps.

Peace.

MM

[miasma man]

Oh yeah,

KEEP IT SIMPLE !!!!

Always.

Don't over complicate things or make them too busy. It can look like you are trying too hard or it can look messy.

The simplest things always work the best...

Good luck.

[miasma man]

Oh yeah again,

High resolution is good - for the final prints.

However, it does slow the computer down though when working things out. Keep the resolution low until you are ready to print.

High resolution also means chunky 20 -50 Mb files. Low resolution means 5 -10 Mb files. (sometimes)

[Jimfish]

maisma:

yeah i know about text arc, but at most all that gives is a semi circle, i want a way of getting the text to trace a full circle...

check pm re. template

[MARKEG]

Oh my god i've been totally getting into this design thing over the last few days (the studio computer is at the doctors!!). I learnt about RGB, CMYK, vectors, bitmaps. Bloody everything. I'm now using Illustrator for my vectors and Photoshop for my bitmaps.

So this is what everyone needs to know to make this post a good one:

What size do you make your centre circle for a 12"?

What size do you make your square for the cover?

What file format do you need to output the whole thing as, ready to go to print?

Also if anyone, like me, is really serious about this, you really need to get the .mov files from VTC (Virtual Training Company) for both Photoshop and Illustrator. I don't know if you can only run them on a mac, but they basically talk you though the whole program - visually! I got them from Hotline ;=]

[Patrick]

What size do you make your centre circle for a 12"?

What size do you make your square for the cover?



12" centre circle = circle with diameter of 100mm
Outer sleeve/cover = 31.5cm

Also I remember seeing some label generating software on shareware.com - pretty sure it did all music formats like record/tape/cd/md etc.
I downloaded one for cd labels and covers. Basically do your artwork in whatever package you feel comfortable with (I like Paintshop and Photoshop personally) and then when you've got the image right, cut&paste it accross to your label creating software and it does the correct sizing for you.



What file format do you need to output the whole thing as, ready to go to print?


If you mean for taking to a repo-print house to have a bulk job done, nowadays they can usually deal with all formats like Jpeg, Gif and Tiff. Or a lot will now take files in the format of popular software (like cps and psp files). Tiff used to be the preferred standard though, so if you want to be safe go for this.
If you mean for printing at home, shouldn't matter, but if you are using Jpegs remember to set the compression ratio to 0% so you get maximum definition and highest resolution.

[Methodixxx]

Wasn't the only post I had on this topic about designing...?!

I even posted examples (yes, not for a record tho), one of which had the text going round the centre point in a full circle like Jim was asking aboot...

:roll:

How on earth was my post off topic...?


I just posted a reply (I forgot how big the pics were, it's cause they were really high res. - doh! heheheh.. sorry!) and it was on the second page of this thread, but there is no second page now and my post has vanished! :roll:

[MARKEG]

no m8, your images were like 300000000000000000000 times too big. you couldn't read the posts properly. i can't totally remeber what you read but i wouldn't have deleted it unless i thought it extremely necessary i can promise you.

post it again if you think you can help jim out man but please keep the images as small as possible.

[Methodixxx]

Oh yeah, they were really high res. - ie. look really big on a monitor...

Sorry, forgot about that! :oops:

I'll try to keep any pics waaaay smaller in the future! :lol:

[Jimfish]

best thing to do is ask your manufacturer for sizes...we use handle with care in germany and they gave us a set of templates to use... which all companys should do if they have thier heads screwed on..

[lars]

designing label templates, sleeve artwork and stuff isn't really that hard. you just need to figure things out with human logic ;-)

the tips about vector/bitmap gfx are bang on - make your label artwork as bitmap and all the text in vector.
when you make a new label, start it off as an RGB file with at least a 300dpi resolution. it's lighter this way for you to edit the image, and you can convert it to CMYK when the shit is finished for the print job. so.. when you have the bitmap groundwork done, convert to CMYK and EXPORT it from photoshop or whatever you have - to illustrator/freehand or whatever you have and knock all the text on top as vectors. when this is all done, you should be able to export or save the image to a TIFF or PDF form, ready for the print shop.

DO NOT - i repeat DO NOT give JPEG files for the print shops, as JPEG is a compressed format. if you check out any form of jpeg image from the net and zoom really close, you'll notice that it will start to smudge really soon, and that's not what you will want. i always give TIFF or PDF files if possible, because they retain the quality as it's meant to be.

[lars]

oh yeah and in photoshop, when you're doing the file - make sure you begin with a _transparent_ file. the physical size of the file doesn't really matter, as long as the circle shape of the label fits in. now when you have the circle marquee floating, feather the edge black or whatever color you want. then expand the marquee (don't unselect the marquee!) by a couple of pixels and press CTRL-C (or edit->copy) to copy and then hit the DELETE key.

now press CTRL-V or edit->paste and your image will be in the DEAD CENTER of the canvas. now you need to crop the canvas to be the size of the self image, so be careful not to leave anything out.
when you have the image centered, make a new circle the size of the inner label circle (you know where the platter's center "needle" sticks out from) and paint it white or something. again, expand the marquee by a couple of pixels again and repeat the previous process.

this way you have everything in the dead center. now all you need to do is make the artwork.

cheers.

[interferron]

when you make a new label, start it off as an RGB file with at least a 300dpi resolution. it's lighter this way for you to edit the image, and you can convert it to CMYK when the shit is finished for the print job.

there's a small problem here. RGB black doesn't automatically convert to CMYK black, in photoshop or in any other designer tool i think. learned it the hard way when i was ordering a two color print with only C(yan) and blac(K) channels, with a job converted from RGB to CMYK. the print shop developed the films and suddenly the job contained colors distributed to all channels in addition to the black channel...

also, colors really change when converting to CMYK, sometimes radically. so if you can, calibrate your monitor and work in CMYK from the beginning.

RGB could be the future however, many printing houses are moving to fully RGB compatible job processes in digital printing at least.. thank god for the day that happens.



DO NOT - i repeat DO NOT give JPEG files for the print shops, as JPEG is a compressed format. if you check out any form of jpeg image from the net and zoom really close, you'll notice that it will start to smudge really soon, and that's not what you will want. i always give TIFF or PDF files if possible, because they retain the quality as it's meant to be.

be sure to ask the print shop what formats they recommend - they're using different tools, and of course support many formats, but if they need to convert, the extra conversion round can always ruin something...

if your design is fully vector based, you'll probably be better off if you can deliver the job in original vector format, e.g. freehand, illustrator..

PDF is a good format (just remember to embed all fonts and images!!), as most printers create PDFs in the final steps of their own process. if you can deliver them a fully print-ready PDF, the printer will be happy, but the problem is that PDF's are not very changeable.. you'll have to know how to draw correct cutting marks and all.

CMYK format hi-resolution JPEGs are not entirely evil btw, some european printers are actually recommending them and the format/compression keeps evolving.

[anx]

Jim Fish - to make text go in a circle you should use adobe Illustrator

just make a regular circle, then go to your tool box and hold the cursor down on the text option so a bunch of other options come up. select the T with the squiggly line next to it. then click on the circle and start typing.

when u want to bring your illustrator images into photo shop you can either save as a .eps and open it in photoshop or select file/export while in illustrator and export it as a tiff. dont go less than 100 dpi tho or it will look like crap

[Dustin Zahn]

I recommend just contacting your pressing plant and getting the template directly from them. Every pressing plant has templates for their projects. And, if you design your own, you'll probably end up having to copy and paste the design over to their template (which isn't so bad or too hard).

I also recommend trying to get down a style of art that only demands 2 or 3 colors max. By the time you start paying for 4 color labels, it can get pretty pricey. You can make some excellent looking labels using only 2 colors. Learning different shades of colors and what not is also a great way of upping your ante on design.

When doing sleeves, someone said to turn the cover inside out to give it that rough feel. While that is a great technique, remember some plants charge almost double for this. The reason being is that the un-coated side absorbs more ink, so they charge more.

Lastly, try and stay away from fonts that are too small, because they'll come out like shit on the actual label. If you're doing small fonts I've heard a few people recommend using Quark to do the text, but I've never tried it myself. I think someone may have already stated this, but I'll stress it again. Don't do the labels under 300dpi because the quality will be very bad. Doing at 300dpi will make your lines crisp and make your labels look oh so sexy.

Lastly, more of a personal preference, I like labels that have big words. Theres nothing worse than being in a poorly lit club and you're trying to read small print on a record to see what it is. If you have a record with bigger print you can see what you have in your hands and have it on the decks in the mix, in no time. Good luck!

[Jimfish]

cheers anx! thats just the job!