Here's why your techno scene sucks.

[Dustin Zahn]

After scanning through various forums, websites, and discussions with people all over the world I finally feel the need to vent for a minute. First off, 'disappointed' is the first word that comes to mind when I see all this constant bickering between people about various sub-genres of techno. Since I moved to Minneapolis 18 months ago my whole view and perception of techno has changed 100% through the records I've released, bought, and dug through the bins for. I've been fortunate enough to play for people in many walks of life and I'm beginning to understand that there is "always another side" to techno.

The last 2 years have seen a tremendous change in the techno scene...distributors rising, distributors falling, labels coming and going, and producers changing their ways or just coming into the spotlight. 3, 4, even 5 years ago on some of these very forums/mailinglists/etc. people were complaining that there is no originality anymore. They were complaining they want something fresh and something new. People were tired of Adam Beyer and his friends putting out another loopy record on another swedish label. People were tired of seeing Planet Rhythm put out another compressed record. The examples are endless.

Fast forward to 2004. The loop record isn't the only thing on the shelves anymore. Tons of producers have come on the scene with their own take on things. The whole Jaxx crew took the dark industrial sound and ran with it. Richie Hawtin and friends helped bring minimal techno back into the spotlight. Adam Beyer and his boys now produce everything from minimal to trancey, melodic sounding techno. Jerome, Hawkins, Birken, and more all helped push the "wonky" movement. Techno is now more diverse than ever before. The options you have as a DJ and/or a listener of the music are now overwhelming. Yet, everyone is still complaining.

To be honest, I'm tired of DJs telling me they specialize in a certain style of techno. Since I switched to techno back in 1999 I've always been in this with a clear head, allowing myself to be open to anything techno. Along the way my tastes for certain styles have come and gone but I don't automatically count anything out. Look at the play lists from most DJs these days including bedroom DJs. Most of the time it'll be a list of 20-30 of the hottest records in the past 2 or 3 months. DJ mixes online usually amount to nothing more than an hour of 15-20 drum tracks that play out the whole time, with no dynamic or contrast in mixing whatsoever. @ "Are DJ Tools Killing Techno?" thread: No, shitty DJs are. A good DJ can take a loopy 5 minute track and make it work. They're meant to be tools, not songs...and a lot of bedroom DJs don't realize this.

What ever happened to mashing it all up in a DJ set? I read comments on minimal forums and I read comments on forums like this that just piss me off. Hard techno guys dissing minimal guys, and minimal guys dissing hard techno guys. Ever think of mixing the styles together? There's nothing wrong with getting a little gutsy and unique in your DJ sets. Try throwing a minimal record on top of Skoog record. Try dropping an old house classic over a Sims track, or drop an industrial track over some wonky techno. Put some attitude back into this music. You know why I really respect DJs like Ben Sims or like-minded folk? It's not because they make "salsa techno" (another glorious BOA term), or because they're the hot artists of the moment. It's because they have the balls to drop anything on top of anything and make it work.

In a given set, you'll hear Sims drop some jaxx techno, some hardgroove, swedish stuff, detroit techno, ghetto tech, house music, whatever. It makes for a rockin' party set and that's why he is who he is (the sick mixing skills don't hurt either). Surgeon is also getting a ton of props lately. Why? He is dropping everything from Downwards tracks to Aphex Twin to P-funk! Give it a try, it's actually quite fun and you'll be surprised what goes together well. You better believe some of my Basic Channel records push 140 over some beatin' techno. I'm not asking people to start mashing it up on a constant basis, I'm just saying it doesn't hurt to look beyond your usual labels and producers and try and find the good in something else.

As for people doing all this shit talking...why all the hostility? Minimal kids are nothing but coke-headed amateur producers? Schranz DJs are nothing but youngsters with a speed problem and a couple sample CDs? There is a time and a place for everything. Do any of you schranz kids realize there are minimal records out there (and have been for years) that will push 150bpm and hit just as hard as a 20-layered loop techno track of yours? Do you minimal freaks realize there are solid detroit and loopy techno tracks out there that are perfect for dropping here or there in a set that will give your set some dynamics? Hertz fans, do you have any idea how sick a wonky record may sound with it quietly in the mix? Stop going to the shops and saying "This record is okay, I'd buy it if..." instead you should think to yourself, "How can I make this record rock?" I know from personal experience I've had friends do this with certain records I've passed on. They'll play it and I think, "****, why did I pass on that?! THAT's why this record was made! It works so well."

In the end, if you made it through this huge rant you'll realize it's just another unity speech. I'm just tired of checking these random online techno communities from time to time only to see people stepping up at one another. I've retired from that crap and focused on the big picture. I'm concentrating on trying to help salvage what's left by helping with certain projects and promoting certain parties. The reason techno even came about is because the pioneers were willing to accept outside influences and make something of their own. Diversity is the key.

[steelgrooves]

THANK YOU!!!!!

You know ive never limited myself inside of techno i like ALL sub genres of the sound and love a dj who does not limit themselves to only hard or only minimal or only clubby techno ect ect.I see alot of people complain about there not being any good realeses this past year but for me it was the best year yet for techno.... I dont even live in a techno city but have collected records for 10 years..I mean come on the only thing that will Kill techno wich is a common topic on this board is the constant bickering between the people who support it... I LOVE Schranz,latin,clubby,acid,minimal ect ect ect!!!! If i hear a record and i feel it wont work for me in a mix i wont buy it and thats it.. doesnt mean techno is gonna die next year.

Dustin, I could not agree w/ you more homie i feel you have hit the nail on the head!!! Thanks for taking the time to spell that out!

[Mirsha]

everyone is still complaining.

People like a good moan, and will aways moan. I'm getting well fed up of my mates who went to see people like Subhead, Justin Berkovi and Steve Glencross this year and their verdicton the night "It wasn't hard enough". Of course it wasn't hard enough, there was a smattering of 4/4, big chunky breaks, and bits of filthy wonk scattered all over the place. **** 'em I say. You aren't here to make other people happy, playing out means getting your agenda across.



To be honest, I'm tired of DJs telling me they specialize in a certain style of techno.
I'm not. I would like to play wonky stuff and that would be akin to Ryan Giggs saying "I play football". I suppose it's the people who take it all a bit too seriously and want to pigeonhole themselves, and keep themselves in that pigeon hole as a sort of protection mechanism. It's only annoying when people become close minded to other stuff, some of my mates think I may be a bit close minded as I listen to nothing but techno by choice. That doesn't mean that when someone puts on Goldie Looking Chains as happened after Robert Nartus and Arkus P on boxing day I'll get into a frump, either I'll tune out if it doesn't grab my attention or I'll enjoy it if it does. I just don't chose to go out of my way for such things.



What ever happened to mashing it all up in a DJ set?
I like to think of it in another way and I like to call it attitude. Many of the sets coming out these days just seem to lack a sense of attitude, something which comes over in the artists performance which says "it really is me and not someone else". Atttiude for me is what lifts a set out of the run of the mill railroad mixing which comes across clearly in bedroom DJ sets.

A few years back one of the promoters of our local night Dogma went to London to visit family, ended up in this club called Ugly Funk and heard this DJ play whom no one had ever heard of at the time. His name was Jerome Hill. She promptly smacked the other promoters over the head to get him up to Edinburgh which has given rise to an absoloute fascination with the man. Even though he's now living in Brazil practicaly every time he comes back to the country folk snap at his heels to get him up here. Why? Becuase his sets are just full on utter ****ing bastards of a seek that reek attitude, style and brazen balls from every note. How many DJs do you know that will hump in the Trashmen into a techno set?

Also when DJs try to throw in a bit of a '**** you' moment into a set one thing I love to watch is the crowd response. Ben Sims playing MC Hammer Can't Touch This a few years back was excellent, half the floor really weren't sure what to do and stood about like dazed punters. The other half bounced about off the walls and went mental. A similiar thing happened when Cari Lekebusch played shortly after Peel's death when he played the Teenage Kicks track that was Peel's favorite, a lot of confused people and a lot of people getting down to it, including me even though I didn't know what it was. Local boys throwing in Kylie/Britney samples into a techno set and layering it all up superbly? No thanks said half the dancefloor with their blank stares. It all comes back to what I said up above, the job of an artist is to get his agenda across and **** everyone else.

[MARKEG]

Dustin, I'm from the old school mentality of techno/house and I believe this means checking everything out that i can get my ears on. I didn't get into techno because I heard it on a dancefloor, I got into it because I heard it on the radio and it was good music. I make dark and hard techno, because i love the atmosphere it creates in a club - sometimes minimal techno can bore me in a club - but that doesn't mean i don't check it all out and buy anything that takes my fancy regardless of genre. I think if you think like this, you become a more musically enriched person. And this is leading me to believe that if you're truly into the experience of listening to music, how can you not want to check everything?? And perhaps this is where the problem lies. If you go out clubbing every weekend, in a particular scene, perhaps this can make you one track minded. Add to that the wealth of forums about that are club based or dj based, and you get to see why it's easy to then start bitching and being -ve. DJing is a fantastic artform, but it's too easy to play a set of similar sounding records and you go down a storm in your regular saturday night club.

I dunno, things are at an all time bitchy high right now. And add to that the fact that sales are down and people feel the need to moan even more and you've got a whole wealth of grumpy old men that can find nothing good to say about anything.

Anyway, just a quick reply to let you know I 100% agree with you. The solution I believe is to do your own thing and try to take this techno movement forward in your own way. Stop wanting everything yesterday, stop being greedy and just do your own thing.

Good words Dustin, that was a great read ;)

[ncw]

Good post Dustin.
It is disheartening to see so many people getting swept up in subgenres, especially when there are the records and tools available to put all kinds of things together. Whatever you think of Ableton as a performance tool it has opened up, undeniably, a totally new ballpark. The ability to put just about anything in the mix in time is pretty revolutionary, and wasted if people are just sticking one style of one subdivision of one wing of techno.

While I do appreciate some of music that comes from the Jaxx camp (good records on Emergence, some Exium stuff etc) I think that maybe they ran with it too quick. It kind of became a cliched sound before it had a chance to properly develop, and a lot of the stuff that poured out of Spain after the initial onslaught sounded like weak derivative cack.
For the more traditional DJ (myself included) it'd be good to remember that ONE of these "dark" Jaxxish tracks would have much more impact when surrounded by a greater variety of tracks, rather than 20 more Jaxx tracks. (Jaxx being just an example).

People seem to have forgotton that you can move through different moods, textures and sounds, let alone different genres. I find it too dull to play track after track of the same mood. Seems the only "mood" progression you get from techno DJs now is "harder faster".

The best thing about DJing is the ability to shape how people react. Its often more fun when they react unpredictably, and favourably. I started playing a bit more abroad this year, and was surprised at the way people went for more minimal (descriptive, not GENRE) sound, less about the broken beat, more about the subtle tonal stuff. But you can't just give a crowd the same thing all night, you gotta shake it up.

Records that don't sound utterly banging at home CAN still rock a floor! Try it, play an old 212 record, "Cobalt". At home it sounds pretty mellow, but it becomes an animal when you take it out. You won't lose the dancefloor by playing something that doesn't have THAT Liasions Dangereuses sample in it! Also, overproduced records sound shit on big systems. A bit of soul and grit never hurt anyone.

This rant/advice isn't aimed at anyone, feel free to ignore.
Hope 2005 leaves you less jaded Mr Zahn.

[gary_human]

fair play mate - real good rant :clap: :clap:

I sometimes got affected by some of the words said on these forums (thinking: if I play these kinda tracks and drop this over that then Im not techno enough etc. and that if I make a loop track then its not techno enough?!!!), but I stopped myself and remembered what I loved - the music - irrespective of the name - i also enjoy listening to hip-hop, breaks, electro, county and western, a bit of house, some trance and a bit of pop but mostly techno.

If I stood by every word uttered on forums like these I really would get affected. The dancefloor is usually where techno has its biggest impact and that is where you have the ability to show your stuff as a DJ - people have remembered my sets more when Ive dropped stuff like Missy Elliot over Crystal Distortion tracks for instance rather than (insert sub-genre) techno track mixed seemlesly into another (insert same sub-genre) techno track . . .

. . . and I also hate it when people say "what kind of style is yours?"

its all techno . . .

and (tongue in cheek :lol: )Dustin you shouldn't realy be giving the secrets of how to become a good DJ away on a forum - you born with that shit ;) or not lol

[Ritzi Lee]

Music tell us more than a 1000 words.
So: http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28653
and a happy new year. ;)

[Dustin Zahn]

Yeah, I hope I didn't come off as jaded sounding because that's not my tone at all. I'm far from jaded at this point. All of this nonsense has actually inspired me to push things further and harder. I'd also like to add that there is nothing wrong with having opinions and not liking certain styles of music, but I can't stand it when people don't even give things a chance. I'll be the first to agree that something such as minimal/microhouse for instance is an oversaturated bandwagon right now. I'll even go as far as saying that these new people in this genre are probably the worst for being cliquey and elite. At the same time, I'll also go ahead and say that every once in a while I pick up a few of these records and think they're the most innovative tracks I've heard in a long time. You just have to look beyond the bullsh*t, it's annoying and takes time but it can be worth it if you're truly into it.

[The Overfiend]

Preach on Dustin.
Say whatever the F*ck you gotta :!:

[romelpotter]

I agree with a lot of everything thats been said above this post so i won't just repeat it. i would add that in my opinion it creates interest in the mix. you can fold the dancefloor by dropping different tracks with different emotional feelings, and the magic of getting into and being part of a set that you can feel the energy and the vibe from your audience... well it just electrifies me and is probabliy why i am a dj/drummer

[audioinjection]

werdness

[Komplex]

I thought it was all just because of the drugs and knts posting on forums after a big night out whinging and being a btch.

The reality is often quite different to what you read about on message boards.

If you go to a party and its a full house, people are hanging off the ceiling having a good time, music is cranking and diverse, there will still always be people who come onto the message boards and complain about something the following day.

[Komplex]

You'll also probably find that heaps of people are into many styles of music too. They just aren't so vocal about hating shit.

[Clarkus]

*Inspired*
I'm of to dig thru my collection now and chop it up a bit :clap: :cool:

[xfive]

I've definetly always been one to appreciate DJs who can mix it up across the techno spectrum within one set, as that's always the way I have played myself.

Gotta have peaks and valleys man ;)

Good post.

[detfella]

i dont think its just about converging subgenres in techno & dance music. i think its about musical convergence full stop and that includes all genres. all music has an equal merit, be it happy hardcore, techno, breaks, jazz, rock,c ountry, _other_random_name_ - its all just music.

there's been some great posts on here recently, with a lot of people fired up & ready to take on the battle & take techno forward which is great to see. :love:

[dirty_bass]

"Variety is the spice of life"
is a fave quote of mine.

Also
"In-breeding contributes nothing to evolution"

and of course
"United we stand, divided we fall"

with

"Be excellent to one-another" Coming in as runner up.

[detfella]

"Variety is the spice of life"
is a fave quote of mine.
.

mine also, but fk me if it doesn't work with relationships :lol: :dontevengothere:

[dirty_bass]

Well, it can do, if you restrict the variety to varied sexual experimentation, rather than varied sexual partners :twisted:

[xfive]

Or you can just be swingers...... :shock:



:lol:

[gunjack]

While I do appreciate some of music that comes from the Jaxx camp (good records on Emergence, some Exium stuff etc) I think that maybe they ran with it too quick. It kind of became a cliched sound before it had a chance to properly develop, and a lot of the stuff that poured out of Spain after the initial onslaught sounded like weak derivative cack.
For the more traditional DJ (myself included) it'd be good to remember that ONE of these "dark" Jaxxish tracks would have much more impact when surrounded by a greater variety of tracks, rather than 20 more Jaxx tracks. (Jaxx being just an example).



man, all these ppl talking about the "jaxx sound" do you all realize how many diferent labels are distributed through jaxx? how many diferent kinds of music we sell? you all are talking about a 20 per cent minority that just happens to get most of the attention. besides oscar, wunsch, reeko and exium, there are tons of artists doing diferent things through jaxx. look at labels like RAS, Lowtom, Mission, Alenda, Strike, and a bizzilion other house, tech house, minimal, groovy and soulful labels distributed through jaxx and tell me we distribute only "dark techno". My Collectors series had a full on vocal hip hop track on the first reference. a jazz tune on the second. deafmosaic will begin a pure hip hop sub label this year with support from jaxx.... its all about diversity as dustin said. while the majority of you may be under the impression that jaxx only releases "dark" tracks with strings and off beat kicks, this is simply not the case!!!!

[anx]

i hear that man

i always mix my sets up with as much variety as possible.

one thing i hate is when promoters tell you what style to play (suggesting and advising is fine, just dont FORCE me to play anything). If you booked me as a dj, you booked me because you trust me to make the crowd move. so f*ck off and let me decide what i think the crowd wants. one of my favorite things to do is to read a crowd. if they react nicely to funkier stuff, then thats what they are gonna get, if the dancefloor lacks some energy with the funky stuff, i'll progress it harder, weave in and out of the different styles to see what they are feeling at the moment. its the most important skill to have except the basics like beatmatching.

this is a great thread :)

[Dustin Zahn]

man, all these ppl talking about the "jaxx sound" do you all realize how many diferent labels are distributed through jaxx? how many diferent kinds of music we sell? you all are talking about a 20 per cent minority that just happens to get most of the attention. besides oscar, wunsch, reeko and exium, there are tons of artists doing diferent things through jaxx. look at labels like RAS, Lowtom, Mission, Alenda, Strike, and a bizzilion other house, tech house, minimal, groovy and soulful labels distributed through jaxx and tell me we distribute only "dark techno". My Collectors series had a full on vocal hip hop track on the first reference. a jazz tune on the second. deafmosaic will begin a pure hip hop sub label this year with support from jaxx.... its all about diversity as dustin said. while the majority of you may be under the impression that jaxx only releases "dark" tracks with strings and off beat kicks, this is simply not the case!!!!

I think the reason people associate the dark techno with jaxx is because they're the only ones who really maintain a constant hold on that style of techno. Sure there is some great club techno labels on there, but other distributors have that too, you know what I am saying? I am actually liking a couple releases off that Lowtom label quite a bit.

[Zektor]

I didn't knew deafmosaic is going to start up a hiphop label.
Can't wait to hear hiphop music from a techno perspective.

And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks banging dark techno is the not the only way to rock a party.

Gimme some deep techno ish and I'll lose my mind!

(For example 'Robert Hood' :
http://www.nuloop.com/real/Metroplex/m025_b1.rm)

When listening to hardcore banging beats for hours non-stop...and I'm leaving the party and go straight to home...watch a DVD or something.

[ncw]

man, all these ppl talking about the "jaxx sound" do you all realize how many diferent labels are distributed through jaxx? how many diferent kinds of music we sell? you all are talking about a 20 per cent minority that just happens to get most of the attention. besides oscar, wunsch, reeko and exium, there are tons of artists doing diferent things through jaxx. look at labels like RAS, Lowtom, Mission, Alenda, Strike, and a bizzilion other house, tech house, minimal, groovy and soulful labels distributed through jaxx and tell me we distribute only "dark techno". My Collectors series had a full on vocal hip hop track on the first reference. a jazz tune on the second. deafmosaic will begin a pure hip hop sub label this year with support from jaxx.... its all about diversity as dustin said. while the majority of you may be under the impression that jaxx only releases "dark" tracks with strings and off beat kicks, this is simply not the case!!!!

Yeah, of course its not the case. Maybe the "Spanish" or "Madrid" sound would have been a better description. In any case, theres' no point twisting your knickers about it, as it was only mentioned for arguments' sake. Back to the topic.

[Tony]

man, all these ppl talking about the "jaxx sound" do you all realize how many diferent labels are distributed through jaxx? how many diferent kinds of music we sell? you all are talking about a 20 per cent minority that just happens to get most of the attention. besides oscar, wunsch, reeko and exium, there are tons of artists doing diferent things through jaxx. look at labels like RAS, Lowtom, Mission, Alenda, Strike, and a bizzilion other house, tech house, minimal, groovy and soulful labels distributed through jaxx and tell me we distribute only "dark techno". My Collectors series had a full on vocal hip hop track on the first reference. a jazz tune on the second. deafmosaic will begin a pure hip hop sub label this year with support from jaxx.... its all about diversity as dustin said. while the majority of you may be under the impression that jaxx only releases "dark" tracks with strings and off beat kicks, this is simply not the case!!!!

isnt it just the 'birmingham sound abroad' as it were. it was an area of music that always needed a lot more coverage, and was only pushed by one company previously. its a shame that jaxx get a bad rep for pushing a sound they believe in, and that does have a lot of artistic scope left in it.

Yeah, of course its not the case. Maybe the "Spanish" or "Madrid" sound would have been a better description. In any case, theres' no point twisting your knickers about it, as it was only mentioned for arguments' sake. Back to the topic.

[Tony]

hmmm, dont know what happened above. bizarre!

this is a good thread, but the suggestions are preaching to the converted for me. i get quite shocked to think that people would just bracket themselves so limitedly. viva music!

[tioneb]

Dustin, i agree with what you say. Through your posts on the various forums / email list you refer to, and the chats we have ive felt your personnal evolution you describe.

I just wish it happend before, some years ago. Ive just tried to spread this opinion since i started to posts in public internet places. I have been accused of arrogance, of rudeness, got people like slagging me without any reason for that.

Probably i expressed myself bad. Im happy anyways to see people converging to the opinion i have about techno. Not saying i was the first to have, im still young and just learnt it from many of my older freinds. Maybe the people younger than me are getting into it.

I just take it too personnal, i know, but errr im still wondering why we had to wait to be in that shit happening with techno to make the masses realize the music we make had to be more diverse. Drugs ?

[slavestudios]

dustin, no disrespect mate, but my techno does not suck...

[gunjack]

its a shame that jaxx get a bad rep

who said we got a bad rep?! ;)

[gunjack]

I didn't knew deafmosaic is going to start up a hiphop label.
Can't wait to hear hiphop music from a techno perspective.


Gunjack was originally a hip hop project. :rambo:

[djshiva]

I dunno, things are at an all time bitchy high right now. And add to that the fact that sales are down and people feel the need to moan even more and you've got a whole wealth of grumpy old men that can find nothing good to say about anything.



the way i figger it:

make more music.

bitch less.

:)

[djshiva]

i also would like to bring up the point that so many times, djs are not given the time to widen their styles and really let their sets breathe. one hour sets after one hour sets and so many times transitions can seem clumsy if not given the space to move.

across the board, i would like to see FEWER djs per night and LONGER sets from djs with the skills to take it somewhere interesting. i think longer sets are really where you find out who's a dj and who's just a glorified jukebox (oh shit, was that negative? pardon...need nicotine ;) )

[Dustin Zahn]

the way i figger it:

make more music.

bitch less.

:)

That's what I'm talkin' about.

[ncw]

its a shame that jaxx get a bad rep

who said we got a bad rep?! ;)

I dunno why you're assigning that quote to me, I think it was Tony's internet doofusness!

[tioneb]

i also would like to bring up the point that so many times, djs are not given the time to widen their styles and really let their sets breathe. one hour sets after one hour sets and so many times transitions can seem clumsy if not given the space to move.

across the board, i would like to see FEWER djs per night and LONGER sets from djs with the skills to take it somewhere interesting. i think longer sets are really where you find out who's a dj and who's just a glorified jukebox (oh shit, was that negative? pardon...need nicotine ;) )

errr actually if i dont really have the same tastes as Laurent Garnier, hes the only DJ ive seen so far keeping people dancing and giving interest in 7+ hours sets so far.

The people who say he should "be more banging" dont understand hes not doing a 1h performance.

So maybe longer sets time will allow DJs to put more variety in their sets. Come on theres a lot of bedroom DJs here who can do that at home, so dont blame promoters.

[primevil]

in techno there should never be rules....except one rule. ROCK IT!

techno is very healthy at the minute as it is has little boundries. a good techno night should tease every emotion and more emotions we never knew we had. misstress barbara plays loadsa tracks that dave clarke plays. but they are completely different and thats wot makes techno so exciting. i agree with this topic....yes we should embrace all elements of techno and celebrate it in the only way we all know how.....

to dance our asses off to it!!!

peace and long life to techno :cool:

[Joseph Isaac]

no point twisting your knickers about it

sorry, this is off topic but international slang is rather entertaining from a west-coast, american perspective...

[tocsin]

DeafMosaic, do you have any of this hip-hop stuff online? I'd love to hear it myself. All the stuff I've been working on recently has been coming out hip-hop in the end. I've always been a bit surprised why hip-hop and electronic/techno never really seemed to make a true harmonious mesh as far as artists were concerned. Every hip-hop techno like track I heard with an MC almost always felt unusually stilted but I think it was because those were more corporate projects.

[The Overfiend]

no point twisting your knickers about it

sorry, this is off topic but international slang is rather entertaining from a west-coast, american perspective...

Lol, That's funny joe, I'm having a blast learning all the west coast slang and ways of life myself! By the way Primevil made a valid point, which is come with it and rock that shit!

[The Germ]

in techno there should never be rules....


:clap:

[eviled303]

when was the last time dustin threw away money he didnt have because its harder in this country than its ever been to get people into techno nights. and i dont mean hard house, trance or drum n bass, i mean techno. i appreciate what the man is saying, dont get me wrong, i think he made alot of sense, but from my point of view its harder than its ever been putting on a night, and i know that goes for quite a few promoters in this country. last year was a bitch for euphonic and it cost me a shit load of money. its fine if you have a budget to book surgeon, but if your passions are further underground, less people are listening these days, and my empty pockets and maxed out credit cards dont lie. i hope his optimism in the glory that is techno starts trickling down my way, cos i sure could do with a full dance floor this year before i lose the will to do it altogether!!!

[Paul Nisbet]

in techno there should never be rules....


:clap:

Does intellihance still run dude? Had a couple of releases from them, then quiet? Or maybe ive missed it?

Btw for me, Techno has never been stronger, in Edinburgh the scene is MASSIVE. The only style that can have 3 or 4, maybe even 5 club nights doing well, and packing it out and completely rocking the place. In the summer there are 2 or 3 crews putting on Free parties, and all the different groups from different clubs go to each others nite and free parties, no politics. Just fun and messy times.

[Dustin Zahn]

when was the last time dustin threw away money he didnt have because its harder in this country than its ever been to get people into techno nights. and i dont mean hard house, trance or drum n bass, i mean techno. i appreciate what the man is saying, dont get me wrong, i think he made alot of sense, but from my point of view its harder than its ever been putting on a night, and i know that goes for quite a few promoters in this country. last year was a bitch for euphonic and it cost me a shit load of money. its fine if you have a budget to book surgeon, but if your passions are further underground, less people are listening these days, and my empty pockets and maxed out credit cards dont lie. i hope his optimism in the glory that is techno starts trickling down my way, cos i sure could do with a full dance floor this year before i lose the will to do it altogether!!!

When was the last time I threw away money for a techno show? Matthew Dear, Bryan Zentz, Slobodan, Madga & Troy Pierce, Traxx, Claude Young, and next month Michael Mayer and probably a UK producer (tbc). That is at least 7 occassions in the last year where my friends and I have poured money into an event and the only positive thing we got back is a "thank you" from some loyal friends. To be honest, the thank you's are more than enough for me. It sucks losing money but the fact that we keep pushing it on a consistent basis now means more people are coming out and less money is being loss. Honestly, we made money on our last show featuring Slobodan but after meals, drinks, and all the other small odds and ends it was about $35. Just like producing, DJing, painting, writing, anything else...promoting truly is an art and it takes time to learn when and which corners need to be cut.

[eviled303]

we're approaching a fourth birthday, so i've had plenty of time to get my promotion in line, and its something i know inside out. all i'm trying to say is that when we started four years ago, there was a vibrancy about the scene which seems to be missing these days, and we were able to balance the books, just. now, and for the last year, there's less people coming out. its very frustrating when you know you're doing something good but less people are interested, and there's a big hole in your pocket. look, i'm not asking for a sympathy vote, i'm just trying to say that from where i'm standing, the problems with the scene here are wider reaching than just the music, and although i hope to carry on for as long as possible, i can only lose so much money before it becomes prohibitive, and i know i'm not the only one, and without the nights to go to, the cycle which the club scene relies on becomes smaller and smaller. whether you like it or not, money is important, to dj's, to producers, to club owners, to distribution companies, to promoters. it's a cycle which needs money to survive, and if the people arnt giving you their money, there's bound to be problems. i'm afraid in england these days, a techno club can't compete with 'naughty schoolgirl night' at jumpin jaks.

[killarava2day]

in techno there should never be rules....


:clap:

Does intellihance still run dude? Had a couple of releases from them, then quiet? Or maybe ive missed it?

Btw for me, Techno has never been stronger, in Edinburgh the scene is MASSIVE. The only style that can have 3 or 4, maybe even 5 club nights doing well, and packing it out and completely rocking the place. In the summer there are 2 or 3 crews putting on Free parties, and all the different groups from different clubs go to each others nite and free parties, no politics. Just fun and messy times.

Hmm, I too remember picking up an EP from this lable featuring Donovan, really good as well.

[Komplex]

i'm afraid in england these days, a techno club can't compete with 'naughty schoolgirl night' at jumpin jaks.

A 'naughty schoolgirl on speed night' at your local techno club can.

[John Vella]

I agree with most of what you said here Dustin. I appreciate your passion. There is something you mentioned I wanted to discuss a bit.


They're meant to be tools, not songs...and a lot of bedroom DJs don't realize this.

Maybe this is part of the problem as well?

Too many producers creating tracks to be used *only* as a DJ tool.....

Why aren't more Techno producers applying fundamentals of musicality to their tunes? (where u have proggresions and big changes happen within one tune)

Perhaps because prodcuers have been infulenced by this notion many have seemed to adopt regarding what makes a good DJ set? So many people only rate a Djs performance on how many 1000s of records they can possibly fly through in one set. It's also this obession with 3 or more decks going at a time. This can almost become more of a circus act than a musical expression. Sure this is *very* impressive from a technical talent standpoint... But is it always so pleasing musically? That is always going to be a matter of personal taste.

To me, **personally**, when I am on the dancefloor, I can't get into a set like this because I start enjoying a groove and bassline and enjoy REALLY gettin into it, and POOF its gone within seconds before I could really digest it. Kind of like your getting teased to death over and over. Leaves me feeling very unsatisfied as a listener because the entire set becomes this total blur. Too chaotic for me. Like I said this is me personally. I'm not saying I am right. I have plently of friends who love the really fast paced style.

Regardless of what one's taste is, I think a bit more balance can be utilized here. Yes producers want to write tracks that can be used by Djs... But I don't think they should have to bend over backwards and sacrifice any creativity....

So I guess what I am trying to say Dustin, is where you are putting more of the emphasis on the DJs to mix it up, maybe some of that duty can also be placed on the people contructing these beats as well. I definitely do see your point tho.

Peace

-John Vella

[davethedrummer]

i also would like to bring up the point that so many times, djs are not given the time to widen their styles and really let their sets breathe. one hour sets after one hour sets and so many times transitions can seem clumsy if not given the space to move.

across the board, i would like to see FEWER djs per night and LONGER sets from djs with the skills to take it somewhere interesting

yes yes yes
more time to experiment behind the dex please!

[Mindful]

I think the only answer to this problem is to land on your own planet do your own thing play/make what moves you and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing(to an extent)if you only let your own boundrys get in your way then expressing yourself becomes so much easier only then can you trully look back and say I did it my way and this applies to everything you do in life.

Works for me anyway ;)


Peace to the Techno community each and every one of you lets fu**in have it this year peeps.

[Tyrisia]

I agree with most of what you said here Dustin. I appreciate your passion. There is something you mentioned I wanted to discuss a bit.


They're meant to be tools, not songs...and a lot of bedroom DJs don't realize this.

Maybe this is part of the problem as well?

Too many producers creating tracks to be used *only* as a DJ tool.....

Why aren't more Techno producers applying fundamentals of musicality to their tunes? (where u have proggresions and big changes happen within one tune)

Perhaps because prodcuers have been infulenced by this notion many have seemed to adopt regarding what makes a good DJ set? So many people only rate a Djs performance on how many 1000s of records they can possibly fly through in one set. It's also this obession with 3 or more decks going at a time. This can almost become more of a circus act than a musical expression. Sure this is *very* impressive from a technical talent standpoint... But is it always so pleasing musically? That is always going to be a matter of personal taste.

To me, **personally**, when I am on the dancefloor, I can't get into a set like this because I start enjoying a groove and bassline and enjoy REALLY gettin into it, and POOF its gone within seconds before I could really digest it. Kind of like your getting teased to death over and over. Leaves me feeling very unsatisfied as a listener because the entire set becomes this total blur. Too chaotic for me. Like I said this is me personally. I'm not saying I am right. I have plently of friends who love the really fast paced style.

Regardless of what one's taste is, I think a bit more balance can be utilized here. Yes producers want to write tracks that can be used by Djs... But I don't think they should have to bend over backwards and sacrifice any creativity....

So I guess what I am trying to say Dustin, is where you are putting more of the emphasis on the DJs to mix it up, maybe some of that duty can also be placed on the people contructing these beats as well. I definitely do see your point tho.

Peace

-John Vella :clap:

[ampassasinbirmingham]

I agree with most of what you said here Dustin. I appreciate your passion. There is something you mentioned I wanted to discuss a bit.


They're meant to be tools, not songs...and a lot of bedroom DJs don't realize this.

Maybe this is part of the problem as well?

Too many producers creating tracks to be used *only* as a DJ tool.....

Why aren't more Techno producers applying fundamentals of musicality to their tunes? (where u have proggresions and big changes happen within one tune)

Perhaps because prodcuers have been infulenced by this notion many have seemed to adopt regarding what makes a good DJ set? So many people only rate a Djs performance on how many 1000s of records they can possibly fly through in one set. It's also this obession with 3 or more decks going at a time. This can almost become more of a circus act than a musical expression. Sure this is *very* impressive from a technical talent standpoint... But is it always so pleasing musically? That is always going to be a matter of personal taste.

To me, **personally**, when I am on the dancefloor, I can't get into a set like this because I start enjoying a groove and bassline and enjoy REALLY gettin into it, and POOF its gone within seconds before I could really digest it. Kind of like your getting teased to death over and over. Leaves me feeling very unsatisfied as a listener because the entire set becomes this total blur. Too chaotic for me. Like I said this is me personally. I'm not saying I am right. I have plently of friends who love the really fast paced style.

Regardless of what one's taste is, I think a bit more balance can be utilized here. Yes producers want to write tracks that can be used by Djs... But I don't think they should have to bend over backwards and sacrifice any creativity....

So I guess what I am trying to say Dustin, is where you are putting more of the emphasis on the DJs to mix it up, maybe some of that duty can also be placed on the people contructing these beats as well. I definitely do see your point tho.

Peace

-John Vella :clap:

i deffinantly feel this way about a set. technicality is cool, but keeping a set flowing is far more important.

i find that techno dj's get a lot more time to experiment behind the decks. at a drum and bass night it is usually 8 1 hour sets, but at most techno nights people usually play for 1 and a half hours plus.

[djshiva]

When was the last time I threw away money for a techno show? Matthew Dear, Bryan Zentz, Slobodan, Madga & Troy Pierce, Traxx, Claude Young, and next month Michael Mayer and probably a UK producer (tbc).

damn...i need to come hang out in minneapolis more, huh? :)

[djshiva]

i deffinantly feel this way about a set. technicality is cool, but keeping a set flowing is far more important.

i find that techno dj's get a lot more time to experiment behind the decks. at a drum and bass night it is usually 8 1 hour sets, but at most techno nights people usually play for 1 and a half hours plus.

around here, EVERYONE except for the big names gets an hour. and it results in a schizophrenic musical mishmash based solely on status instead of musical flow.

one of my favorite parties i have ever thrown and played at was one of our SUBterror parties here in indianapolis. me, adam jay, and our friend matthew bandy all played, and what we did was set/tag/set/tag/set. so adam played for an hour, then he and i tagged for half and hour. i played an hour, tagged with matt and then he played for an hour.

what was neat was that by the time it came to my set, adam had already played a good chunk of the bangin type stuff that i also normally play. so i had to delve a bit deeper in the crates and find more minimal/experiemental stuff to play. then when matt and i tagged, it got all funky, then he ended with some incredibly good jazzy/deep tech and house.

so in this case, the flow of the evening dictated where the music went, instead of who played when. we all know each other incredibly well, so it flowed and evolved at its own pace, rather than us deciding what we would play. we had a blast, and the crowd was right along with us the entire evening.

i would love to see more events that involve the promoters encouraging the artists/djs to collaborate and choose records based on what time it is, where the crowd is, and where the flow is going, rather than djs arranged according to status and just blowing their wad for an hour and going home. it's more fun for the djs, and subsequently MUCH more fun for the crowds. and let's face it, if the crowds don't have fun, good luck getting them to shell out cash for another event.

i just think that people need to rethink not only the music, but the format of its presentation as well.

[andy james]

around here, EVERYONE except for the big names gets an hour. and it results in a schizophrenic musical mishmash based solely on status instead of musical flow.



oh so true lisa :doh: !!! i'm soooooo sick of the 6+ stages & 100+ djs parties where everyone and their mamas are spinning. these f*ckin' promoters get all their cronies to spin reguardless of their talent and organize a HUGE sh*t fest :dontevengothere: ! with that many djs on a lineup, it isn't about the music anymore it's about the size of the promoters balls :nono: .

[Internal Error Records]

Hi Gang,
I said it months ago and I'll say it again. I don't think techno is struggling at all. There is certainly a changing of the guard, but that is not a bad thing. On the East Coast here things are blowing up and dj's are passing up gigs to avoid over exposure. And now New York City seems to be waking up aswell with the Kind Kids, Matambe and other crews finally coordinating with eachother.

The Mid West looks like a resurgence is happening also.

I just dont see any reason to complain. And if you feel there is something to complain about than go grab a pile of flyers and promote for a buddies party. You all know someone organizing something!

Gil

[The Overfiend]

Very true Gil, Kind Kids and Matame are definitely steppin' up to the plate, I really miss the East Coast right now, on the West Droid is doin they're thing, Mid west I'm not knowing, here in Arizona things are really bout to happen ;) Believe that.

[Internal Error Records]

Very true Gil, Kind Kids and Matame are definitely steppin' up to the plate, I really miss the East Coast right now, on the West Droid is doin they're thing, Mid west I'm not knowing, here in Arizona things are really bout to happen ;) Believe that.


What are you doing in Arizona?!?!?

[dirty_bass]

I`m always a little retiscent about a 3 deck set.
Mainly because, if you are a good producer then you have really filled the sound spectrum up to make your track.
And then it gets played with 2 other "full" tracks.
What a mess, no room for the sounds to breath.

[The Overfiend]

Very true Gil, Kind Kids and Matame are definitely steppin' up to the plate, I really miss the East Coast right now, on the West Droid is doin they're thing, Mid west I'm not knowing, here in Arizona things are really bout to happen ;) Believe that.


What are you doing in Arizona?!?!?

Moved out here to be with my misses.

[Internal Error Records]

1) No way!!!

2) Congradulations!

There is a cat on this forum from Arizona that has been sending my label lots of demo's. His name is Messanger. He knows his stuff.

[Mirsha]

I`m always a little retiscent about a 3 deck set.
Mainly because, if you are a good producer then you have really filled the sound spectrum up to make your track.
And then it gets played with 2 other "full" tracks.
What a mess, no room for the sounds to breath.
I've pissed about with Ableton to sequence mixes from tracks and at times do layer three tracks on top of each other. Some of it sounds lovely and it can really add a bit of depth to a mix, even with full on tracks.

[The Overfiend]

1) No way!!!

2) Congradulations!

There is a cat on this forum from Arizona that has been sending my label lots of demo's. His name is Messanger. He knows his stuff.

Brad is a good guy you should release him chief!

[Mindful]

I`m always a little retiscent about a 3 deck set.
Mainly because, if you are a good producer then you have really filled the sound spectrum up to make your track.
And then it gets played with 2 other "full" tracks.
What a mess, no room for the sounds to breath.

True but the answer is simple,Do not mix three "full" tracks or mix them well EQ and level wise

[Rydel]

I`m always a little retiscent about a 3 deck set.
Mainly because, if you are a good producer then you have really filled the sound spectrum up to make your track.
And then it gets played with 2 other "full" tracks.
What a mess, no room for the sounds to breath.

Well, like Mindfull said, it's up to the DJ to make it sound right... Good DJ's can, others can't

To the original post by Dustin > RESPECT :clap:

[viagratek]

hey whattya know somebody just described the interface parties in all this ranting and rambling. :lol:

so i guess the re resolutions for 2005 are:

more doing less bitching

more mixing of styles

more taking chances

more lohanfreestyle

etc

[xfive]

more lohanfreestyle


Dude I am so there!


:lol: :lol:

[mek]

Good points, there are good tracks to be found in all of the techno subgenres.

Although people who really listen to techno for a long time often develop very specialized tastes, and then subsequently look down on music that doesn't fall into their narrow little category, and I doubt that will change.

But people def. need to lighten up a lot.