Vinyl sales etc.....

[audioinjection]

I'm curious.....................are vinyl sales really that bad these days?? I mean, I hear a lot of people saying that labels aren't doing good, but then again, we have a ton of labels still releasing, plus new ones starting.

Is it really that bad?

[stjohn]

think that could be one of the problems....market saturation n all! but there are lads here who know all the ins and outs of the market, theyd be better at answerin.

this'll keep u readin
http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27726

[Joseph Isaac]

Yes. Vinyl sales are really bad. From my own experience, the net sales rate (the actual number sold versus number presales/preordered by distributors) is less than 60%. That is pitiful. But I won't go into my distribution woes...

[dirty_bass]

it`s depressing

[viagratek]

it sux the peener :doh:

[Tony]

so what are you all doing here typing away, go out and buy some vinyl :lol:


.... or

at least spread the word of vinyl as being a viable way to get music. lets create more vinyl addicts, JOIN US!!!!!!! :twisted:

[S/E]

Yes. Vinyl sales are really bad. From my own experience, the net sales rate (the actual number sold versus number presales/preordered by distributors) is less than 60%.

That is a rough statistic.

[fatcollective]

maybe its a good time for pressing plants to start deals pressing lower amounts of vinyl, its seems the lowest amount to press is 500...maybe start like 150 :cry:

[Komplex]

so what are you all doing here typing away, go out and buy some vinyl :lol:


.... or

at least spread the word of vinyl as being a viable way to get music. lets create more vinyl addicts, JOIN US!!!!!!! :twisted:

Viable? comon. It's an expensive boutique product which can't be picked up anywhere but specialty outlets and the only real target market is dj's and even then its segmented into milions of styles.

Economics anyone? Common sense?

[Komplex]

sorry if that came of as negative. think of it as a reality check and nothing more.

[Internal Error Records]

yes, lets talk economics.

pizza economics.

you will never find an industry with more shops that open and close such as the pizza shops.

but know what you never hear? - "the pizza industry is dying"

the reality is, most techno is businessmen are techno maniacs first and businessness second.

genres are the only things that are pigeon-holed.

business experience is pretty pigeon-holed as well.

i mean look at the facts.
most techno labels are started up by young men who
1) are under business educated.
2) have slim to no net work connections
3) offer very little more than the guy next to them
4) and dont have enough money to do it right.

hmmm... wonder why things may appear tuff.

you just have to relize that a business ANY BUSINESS. is going to be tuff and hard work.

remember - no one claims the pizza industry is dying. just the shops.

[Internal Error Records]

yes, lets talk economics.



the reality is, most techno is businessmen are techno maniacs first and businessness second.



edit -

the reality is, most techno businessmen are techno maniacs first and business men second.

[Joseph Isaac]

Yes. Vinyl sales are really bad. From my own experience, the net sales rate (the actual number sold versus number presales/preordered by distributors) is less than 60%.

That is a rough statistic.

Actually, this is an exact statistic from my standpoint.

[Internal Error Records]

Yes. Vinyl sales are really bad. From my own experience, the net sales rate (the actual number sold versus number presales/preordered by distributors) is less than 60%.

That is a rough statistic.

Actually, this is an exact statistic from my standpoint.

learn quick to send distro's half of the amount they order.

[Joseph Isaac]

i mean look at the facts.
most techno labels are started up by young men who
1) are under business educated.
2) have slim to no net work connections
3) offer very little more than the guy next to them
4) and dont have enough money to do it right.

hmmm... wonder why things may appear tuff.


To label these as "facts" is totally incorrect; moreover, this is what logicians call hasty generalizations...making a general claim based on a limited sample or a limited experience (i.e. you may know of 2,3, or 10 label owners like this, but it still does not speak for the whole lot OR most of them). If this is actually true, then you would need to poll hudreds of label owners to prove it, and I doubt that's been done. I'm not pointing this out to be superficial, but I take offense to being lumped into this category. Especially, since 1-4 does not categorize me at all...

We can sit here and go over again and again the reasons for the declining numbers and whine, complain, educate, inform, or a plethora of other claims to explain the numbers, but the bottom line is something needs to be done and at least discussing it publicly will hopefully lead to some progress.

[Joseph Isaac]

Yes. Vinyl sales are really bad. From my own experience, the net sales rate (the actual number sold versus number presales/preordered by distributors) is less than 60%.

That is a rough statistic.

Actually, this is an exact statistic from my standpoint.

learn quick to send distro's half of the amount they order.

Not possible...If presales are 700, you can't get 350 units made. Think.

[Internal Error Records]

no no no. sorry, i wasn't clear.


say you press 500

and one distro orders 500

send them 250

and ship the remaining to a distro in another major region and send some home for future re-release.

[Internal Error Records]

. I'm not pointing this out to be superficial, but I take offense to being lumped into this category. Especially, since 1-4 does not categorize me at all...

to explain the numbers, but the bottom line is something needs to be done and at least discussing it publicly will hopefully lead to some progress.


no one is lumping you anywhere. im not trying to marganlize anyone. i have put alot of thought into this.

my basic point was most people in this industry are businessmen out of necessity. not because they want to.

and what needs to be done - people need business experience outside of this industry.

(the pizza busines is ruff but continues)
(the porn industry survived the internet and floods of compition)

the answers we seek are probably outside our sewing circle.

sorry for any offense.

[Mindful]

Forgive my ignorence but what is the actual problem?Is it the fact that labels are not getting their mony back or is it that they are not making enough or is it somthing else?

[Internal Error Records]

there is no problem. just people wondering why people arent more sucessful.


plus these industry conversations tend to flame a little because its such a personal issue.

[Joseph Isaac]

The actual problem is, at least from my experience, is not distro's not paying, but returns. Say you get a presale order for 800. You sell 750 of them. Over the next few months you get, 200 returns. That's a problem. There goes any possible profit or in a lot of cases breaking even. Secondly, with the market being flooded with in a lot of cases utter shite, quality releases get looked over, so people buy less of them. Its really an amalgamation of issues, but from my own experience this is what is affecting me.

No harm, no foul, Internal. :cool:

[Internal Error Records]

The actual problem is, at least from my experience, is not distro's not paying, but returns. Say you get a presale order for 800. You sell 750 of them. Over the next few months you get, 200 returns. That's a problem. There goes any possible profit or in a lot of cases breaking even. Secondly, with the market being flooded with in a lot of cases utter shite, quality releases get looked over, so people buy less of them. Its really an amalgamation of issues, but from my own experience this is what is affecting me.

No harm, no foul, Internal. :cool:

gracias - last thing im going to do is let hard feelings come between heads on the same team :-)

[Joseph Isaac]

gracias - last thing im going to do is let hard feelings come between heads on the same team :-)

I hear ya!! :cool: