Creative question

[AcidTrash]

There been a few occaisions when I've hit some solid production goals recently but the common reponse it that "it doesn't really go anywhere" which is in my view a fair asessment. How does one make a loopy tune go somewhere?

[djtrypt]

now thatsa problem i come across all the time.

like ill make a banging loop in reason or something, go to mix it down and im like wtf. this shyt isn't going anywhere, what do i do. then when i try to make it progressive, it seems to just like turn into some other sounding track and before you know it i lose touch with what i orginally started with

i think this is an area alot of researcg hasn't been done in yet. like i think that this is a form of writer block to be honest with you.

one thing that i tried to do, is record in live how i make the loop or beat in reason, then i listen to how i made the beat, and try to progress it along that same style and sound. that cna sometimes show you how to add a break down or a clymax or change up the fillins or variations. Also i try to go with the flow.

sometime ill let my fiance or a close friend mix down the loops of the track to get an idea to work off from, usually if youve been pounding a beat away for like a week or so, your ears get accustome to the sound and you really lose your creative edge, i try to work on as many tracks as possible to cut up the monotiuny (sp)

does anyone else have suggestions, cuz these tracks are really frsutrating,

dnt

[dirty_bass]

Easy, stop it from being a loopy track.
Add loads of edits, and change the patterns a lot.
Different hat patterns, different parts, maybe some use of synths.
Maybe a complete change at some point.

[j_s]

think about structure before anything else. picture the sections, what they're gonna be like, how they'll differ, how you'll shift from one to the other...

[Basil Rush]

Depends if you're gonna DJ them or play them live ... if it's for a DJ maybe it's absolutely fine that it doesn't really go anywhere, 'cause they can get it somewhere with another record.

If it's for live then you're gonna want to make all that happen in the mix.

Not sure that that's a very helpful set of comments now I've written them.

Oh well!

[loopdon]

Easy, stop it from being a loopy track.
Add loads of edits, and change the patterns a lot.
Different hat patterns, different parts, maybe some use of synths.
Maybe a complete change at some point.

yes, little filtered sections (1bar/2bar maybe), breaks, simple droppping and cutting of elements, say hihats/kicks...

changing the kick/clap/hihats whatever pattern every 8th or 16th bar, before introducing new elements.

like x---x---x---x-x- for the kick or so (stupid lil example) just so you get what i mean as the 8th or 16th or (...) th 32nd and so on.
...play with reversed kix to get new sections going.


fling in little vocal snippets or whatever, little fx sounds..


apply crazy vst fx etc. etc.

[nova]

flange for a bar.low pass filter some loops down say over 32 beats (8 bars) keep it down for 32beats then start bringing it back up over 32beats. drop synth in on the last bar of 8 bars or 16. a crash on the start of 8 bars. bring in more sounds every 8bars drop out sounds. have a hi pass in there for a bar with some automation on a load of sounds like drums and bass.

[nova]

swoops and swells with build ups drop in shakers on 16ths

edit... i like this website you people are sound ;)

[RDR]

aaahhh bless!!!

my tips

minor variations in velocities in individual hits should not be underestimated. remember a drummer has minor variations inn swing and hit strength.

if you can, always play in parts and then quantise as little as possible, is the very very best way of creating a groove and it teaches you to play the keys...

:)

[holotropik]

wow...thats always a tricky question to answer.

it comes down to song building techniques. a song will pass through phases as it progresses from beginning to end. In its most basic form you have an intro, verse, chorus, verse etc. Maybe you can do some reading about this to understand how you want to convey a feeling or sound.

The only other way would be to just listen.....lots. Sitting down analysing other tracks with other producers can also reveal lots of understanding.

It does take time, so be patient and relentless.

[dirty_bass]

Depends if you're gonna DJ them or play them live ... if it's for a DJ maybe it's absolutely fine that it doesn't really go anywhere, 'cause they can get it somewhere with another record.

If it's for live then you're gonna want to make all that happen in the mix.

Not sure that that's a very helpful set of comments now I've written them.

Oh well!

I think it`s those kind of considerations that have made techno so boring and samey, and stagnated in the whole.
I would say a tune should stand up on it`s own.
If it`s a 6 min loop that does nothing, then make a loopgroove and fill a record up with them.
Otherwise, do a proper tune.

[Craig McW]

Never had a problem with structure. Give the track a purpose. Visualise how you want people to react, that helps me. It gives me a picture of where I want to build the track to and how I want to accent sounds to get a reaction.... then I gauge that reaction by how it affects me, and the people I play it to.

I dunno, as I said, never had an issue with it.

[DotMatrix]

Totally, agree with holotropik, listen to as much music as possible, see what inspires you, There are alot of subtle things in tracks that you may not pick up on until you really listen closely. The velocity suggestion was also a great one, especially if you are going for a loopy, club tool kind of sound, you can make a loopy techno tune sound totally interesting without the use of obvious edits just by f**king with the velocity of the hits.

[DotMatrix]

Depends if you're gonna DJ them or play them live ... if it's for a DJ maybe it's absolutely fine that it doesn't really go anywhere, 'cause they can get it somewhere with another record.

If it's for live then you're gonna want to make all that happen in the mix.

Not sure that that's a very helpful set of comments now I've written them.

Oh well!

I think it`s those kind of considerations that have made techno so boring and samey, and stagnated in the whole.
I would say a tune should stand up on it`s own.
If it`s a 6 min loop that does nothing, then make a loopgroove and fill a record up with them.
Otherwise, do a proper tune.

i disagree, i like a complete track, but at the same time i think dj's are alot more interesting when they play minimal loopy club tools. BRING BACK THE TECHNO CLUB TOOL!!!!

[dirty_bass]

That`s what loop grooves are for.

Why waste a piece of vinyl on a loop that goes nowhere?

[Craig McW]

Agreed, if you're gonna release loop tools, fill a vinyl with locks. If you're gonna write tracks, then write tracks.

[acidsaturation]

I think there's space for both, but yeah - I always try to aim for a varied tune, sometimes to the extent that mates who dj do say that it's too much of a "tune" - too varied to mix into a complete set. Invariably if I want to write a more DJ orientated tune it goes of on some mad progressive lunacy and If I want to write a more progressive lunacy type thing it sticks and gets boring...

The problem is trying to work out how to keep it interesting with stuff I do live, I can have lots of variants on the patterns and edits in produced stuff, but out live It's always lack of memory, not enough hands to twist the Knobs, change patterns quick enough etc.... And if I program more of that stuff in it gets less live, which I don't want 'cos I like the control...

[AcidTrash]

Depends if you're gonna DJ them or play them live ... if it's for a DJ maybe it's absolutely fine that it doesn't really go anywhere, 'cause they can get it somewhere with another record.

If it's for live then you're gonna want to make all that happen in the mix.

Not sure that that's a very helpful set of comments now I've written them.

Oh well!

Thats pretty much what I thought

[Basil Rush]

Not sure that that's a very helpful set of comments now I've written them.

Oh well!

Thats pretty much what I thought

Sometimes the post button is like an outlet for utter wibble that just has to go somewhere....

[Basil Rush]

I would say a tune should stand up on it`s own.
If it`s a 6 min loop that does nothing, then make a loopgroove and fill a record up with them.
Otherwise, do a proper tune.

i disagree, i like a complete track, but at the same time i think dj's are alot more interesting when they play minimal loopy club tools. BRING BACK THE TECHNO CLUB TOOL!!!!

yeah, i mean look at how utterly depressing the trance scene can be with it's all in one packaged tracks with a bit of groove (sometimes amazing but nearly always too short), overblown breakdown, big (often naff) bit, groovy bit etc.

Sometimes it's just glorious if a track goes doof waka doof waka doof waka du-doof waka and doesn't try and pretend to have some kind of message or journey or progress to something that's complete in itself ... it's just a place for your head and body to swing around in some dizzy messed up state until the dj drops a surprise fresh bassline underneath it all and you just want to screammmmmmmmmmm....

[AcidTrash]

I would say a tune should stand up on it`s own.
If it`s a 6 min loop that does nothing, then make a loopgroove and fill a record up with them.
Otherwise, do a proper tune.

i disagree, i like a complete track, but at the same time i think dj's are alot more interesting when they play minimal loopy club tools. BRING BACK THE TECHNO CLUB TOOL!!!!

yeah, i mean look at how utterly depressing the trance scene can be with it's all in one packaged tracks with a bit of groove (sometimes amazing but nearly always too short), overblown breakdown, big (often naff) bit, groovy bit etc.

Sometimes it's just glorious if a track goes doof waka doof waka doof waka du-doof waka and doesn't try and pretend to have some kind of message or journey or progress to something that's complete in itself ... it's just a place for your head and body to swing around in some dizzy messed up state until the dj drops a surprise fresh bassline underneath it all and you just want to screammmmmmmmmmm....


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mindful]

I would say a tune should stand up on it`s own.
If it`s a 6 min loop that does nothing, then make a loopgroove and fill a record up with them.
Otherwise, do a proper tune.

i disagree, i like a complete track, but at the same time i think dj's are alot more interesting when they play minimal loopy club tools. BRING BACK THE TECHNO CLUB TOOL!!!!

yeah, i mean look at how utterly depressing the trance scene can be with it's all in one packaged tracks with a bit of groove (sometimes amazing but nearly always too short), overblown breakdown, big (often naff) bit, groovy bit etc.

Sometimes it's just glorious if a track goes doof waka doof waka doof waka du-doof waka and doesn't try and pretend to have some kind of message or journey or progress to something that's complete in itself ... it's just a place for your head and body to swing around in some dizzy messed up state until the dj drops a surprise fresh bassline underneath it all and you just want to screammmmmmmmmmm....

To me thats what looped up minimal " dj tool" go nowhere type techno is all about and its finest quliaty.

you need both types of tracks standalone tracks and "tools" IMO(I know they're all tools)

[Mindful]

But anyway to answer the question

There been a few occaisions when I've hit some solid production goals recently but the common reponse it that "it doesn't really go anywhere" which is in my view a fair asessment. How does one make a loopy tune go somewhere?I would say make loads of little subtle changes to percussion ellements over 8 and 16 bar sections stabs,mellody and / pads its supprising what bringing in or taking out a hatt pattern can make to the momentem of a track.
Try playing the track very loud(thru headphones perhaps)and pissing about on your eqs live cutting bass at the time that feels right,boosting droping treble whatever try doing edits on the first beat of a 16/8/4 section(as apposed to on the last beat)as long as its live so you can get a feel.
have a good listen to Drumcode stuff Beyer,Mull,Paritsio,carrolla ect to study fofm and how these boys do it well(IMO)

Not saying its good advice but its some of the ways I personaly approach it.

Or let it develop in to a real stand alone track and stop pissing about with loops :lol:

[Mindful]

have a good listen to Drumcode stuff Beyer,Mull,Paritsio,carrolla ect to study fofm


Study form not fofm :oops:

[sash]

just get really smashed and c if that influences ur creativity :evil: