EQ

[alpha_unit]

right when eqing a sound u obviousluly look to boost certain freq's in your mix, i tend to use spkies at certain freq's and boost these between maybe 2- 5k and cut away what i dont want, how do u lot eq things such as drums and percussion???

[MARKEG]

well subtractive eq is best. that's when you take away frequencies, not boost them. you've find it all sounds alot better if you do that ;)

[alpha_unit]

so when u subtract do u spike it with the q? and just cut the odd freq here n there then boost the volume? i tend to cut the low out of stuff, maybe boost the freq i want in the mix like a ^ but a bit tighter to get the sound out i want and cut the rest,


u think it wud b better to not boost and pure cut?


and in what amounts of dbs???


eq is a damn tricky science!

[Barely Human]

There's no definiative way to EQ, you just have to trust your ears, (and a decent spectrum analyser). Its better to just cut the freq's you dont want because if you boost, you end up loosing headroom.

[Milesy]

i read a skilled eq'ist (if thats the right word lol) only cuts at most 3/4db
from any frequency

[Jack]

Milesy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject:
i read a skilled eq'ist (if thats the right word lol) only cuts at most 3/4db
from any frequency

Perhaps he was talking about using a eq to notch out feedback in live sound

[loopdon]

i suggest and urge everybody to use the best sounding and fitting samples in the first place. saves a lot of time when coming to the eq stage. or pre-eq samples, maybe, and save them for further use.
in addition to that, try and get the sound you want to achieve by using asoftsynths internal filtering etc. abilities rather than trying to achieve those results by whacking a filter behind it. u have almost all the tools to sculpture your sound in those synths themselves, use them :!:

You can't polish a turd :!:

Just as in music, that would leave you with a stinking mess.

If you use only as many samples necessary (swap two weak samples for one good one i mean) that will improve your sound quality a lot as well. clever use of reverb is an improvement too, i'd say, that's very important , things in nature a verbed, too, think of that), but make sure you are using fx like that on a send if poss. and cutting out everything below say 300 - 400 Hz or higher so you don't get a bassy muddy verb./place a highpass in front of your send delay, as well....

juz some things i had to learn the hard way :crackup:

[Basil Rush]

try and get the sound you want to achieve by using asoftsynths internal filtering etc. abilities rather than trying to achieve those results by whacking a filter behind it. u have almost all the tools to sculpture your sound in those synths themselves, use them :!:

depends if you like your soft synths filters I guess ... the rest of what you say is I reckon is spot on ... except




You can't polish a turd :!:


Actually, in techno I reckon you might be able to, just sometimes, actually polish a real turd ... We were talking about that in the studio the other day, not sure what the rules would have to be.

Probably you can frame the turd in any sonic context you like.

You may not turn the turd into something unrecognisably like the original sample.

Maybe no subtractive processes.

Need to find a good turd to start with.

[loopdon]

yeah, i aggree 100 %, but i reckon if you learn working the 'clear' way using good samples (or clean or whatever) you could more easily be able to integrate those 'turdish' samples into your music keeping a certain sonic quality, controlled 'turdizm' so to speak. :crackup: :dontevengothere:

but 'uncontrolled/unwanted whackness' when starting to produce due to weak samples can be very frustrating i know from my own experience.

:shock:

[Evil G]

all analog and most digital eqs cause phase distortion (blurring the onset of the sound over time and making it less crisp). hence the "less is more" philosophy with eq.

[Jimfish]

yeah, i think a lot of these 'rules' apply more to general music recording, where you are using mainly sounds fresh from thier source whatever that may be and just trying to lock them togethor neatly..
In techno you are trying to create a whole different sound so you have to figure what works for you. as long as you can get a decent well balanced sound overall you can throw away the rulebook.

Mark is right too, next time you want to boost a freq, try cutting the other freqs instead..

re. polishing a turd.. i do this loads, sometimes i hear a sound thats crap but there is just a faint slither of somthing cool hidden within, sometimes ill use several eqs layered up to get the tone im looking for out of it.

[alpha_unit]

ok you said about the boosting killing the headroom, this will effect the overall volume of my toon?


my stuff is eq'd quite well in general, but when i listent to something like alphazone there is just so much better and i no the main thing with eq is time as it takes years for your ears to get as good as there's but i need to no my fundementals are correct.

i do cut a lot of shit out of samples and i only use hi quality samples too, ill try n start cutting more and see what it does.


also what band eq'd are you ppl using?

[Barely Human]

ok you said about the boosting killing the headroom, this will effect the overall volume of my toon?


That is basically what headroom is...

[Basil Rush]

ok you said about the boosting killing the headroom, this will effect the overall volume of my toon?

my stuff is eq'd quite well in general, but when i listent to something like alphazone there is just so much better and i no the main thing with eq is time as it takes years for your ears to get as good as there's but i need to no my fundementals are correct.

i do cut a lot of shit out of samples and i only use hi quality samples too, ill try n start cutting more and see what it does.

also what band eq'd are you ppl using?

Yeah, try this as an exercise on the next track.

1. Make your maximum boost 3db, if you need to change a sound more than this then cut instead and push up the fader for the channel if necessary after cutting.

2. The only exception your allowed is a high shelving EQ to add the mysterious air if you need it which you can boost to about 9db if you really need to (but don't unless it's obvious that you need it and this should add more volume to the sound, this is more for bringing out really subtle detail in a sound that's not got a lot of top, don't for example add 9db of top to a hi-hat, it'll sound foul usually particuarly with digital eq). Actually maybe ignore this point, it applies more when working with acoustic instruments, vocals and stuff ... but might apply with a dark sounding sample.

3. Cut the bottom out of sounds that you don't want in the bass, but avoid over filtering so everything goes thin. Sometimes it's good to do this with a high pass filter (around the 200hz -> 500hz mark depending on the sound). If it's not obvious how much bottom is in a sound, just play with a filter and you'll hear it, then you can put it back in and make a good judgement on how to sit it in the mix.

4. Sometimes it's better to cut the bottom more gently with a low shelving filter (say 5db of cut from 600 hz sloping down then a HP filter from 100hz). Depends on how much space you've got in your mix really and how thick you want the sound to be.

5. High hats and stuff can often really muddy the middle of your mix, but using a filter on them is sometimes too brutal in a sparse mix. You can try a parametric to knock out stuff from about 2-3k down to the 500hz ish mark then a filter to get rid of any weird bass.

6. Finally, and this is really important. If something isn't sticking out in the mix, first try just pushing the fader up before you reach for the EQ. When you get the mix right you should find that moving a fader 1db makes a considerable difference to the sound. At the start of the mixdown then 6db sounds like a subtle enough change, but sometimes you can get into moving things a quarter of a db and find that it really helps.

[messyfuture]

less is definately more

we lent our mixer to jamie lidell the other week when he was playing here and the first thing that he said when he took the mixer out of its case was someone has been getting a bit over abitious with the eq's here.

but in my defence i had been practising my live set the night before. :oops:

[Mindful]

Yeah, try this as an exercise on the next track.

1. Make your maximum boost 3db, if you need to change a sound more than this then cut instead and push up the fader for the channel if necessary after cutting.

2. The only exception your allowed is a high shelving EQ to add the mysterious air if you need it which you can boost to about 9db if you really need to (but don't unless it's obvious that you need it and this should add more volume to the sound, this is more for bringing out really subtle detail in a sound that's not got a lot of top, don't for example add 9db of top to a hi-hat, it'll sound foul usually particuarly with digital eq). Actually maybe ignore this point, it applies more when working with acoustic instruments, vocals and stuff ... but might apply with a dark sounding sample.

3. Cut the bottom out of sounds that you don't want in the bass, but avoid over filtering so everything goes thin. Sometimes it's good to do this with a high pass filter (around the 200hz -> 500hz mark depending on the sound). If it's not obvious how much bottom is in a sound, just play with a filter and you'll hear it, then you can put it back in and make a good judgement on how to sit it in the mix.

4. Sometimes it's better to cut the bottom more gently with a low shelving filter (say 5db of cut from 600 hz sloping down then a HP filter from 100hz). Depends on how much space you've got in your mix really and how thick you want the sound to be.

5. High hats and stuff can often really muddy the middle of your mix, but using a filter on them is sometimes too brutal in a sparse mix. You can try a parametric to knock out stuff from about 2-3k down to the 500hz ish mark then a filter to get rid of any weird bass.

6. Finally, and this is really important. If something isn't sticking out in the mix, first try just pushing the fader up before you reach for the EQ. When you get the mix right you should find that moving a fader 1db makes a considerable difference to the sound. At the start of the mixdown then 6db sounds like a subtle enough change, but sometimes you can get into moving things a quarter of a db and find that it really helps.

Sweet Basil

[loopdon]

i'd even go that far and say

saweeeeeeeeeeet , basil ;)

[alpha_unit]

deffo a good post man


appreciate that

[nova]

got eq'n questions. coz abit confused onit. its massive! dont kno where to start. in basics wot levels would you guys hav

kicks
hi hats
claps
bass

like basil said make your maximum boost 3bd. does that aply to everything? and i can check this right on the eq. sorry basic i kno. bass and kick to be the loudest .is that right?. so the bass and kick could be at 3bd?

how loud should all the parts be. i can get an analyser yeah to check that levels are right? :scratch:

[Milesy]

read this tutorial nova

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/eq/1.asp

page 2 has lots of basic frequencies, what ones to boost/cut for
clarity, punch etc fo various instuments

[loopdon]

@milesy: i think he is going for db values not frequencys. advice on that would be interesting to mee, too.

i think kick should be @ approx -6 db.

that's a good basis to get the other stuff worked out from as the kick is somwhat central in tech.

a good tip for hats is to make them linear in volume, so they fade out when you take the gain down on your tune. if you turn your tune's volume down, the hats should go down with it :!: , if they still stick out as everything else is getting much quieter, you will know they are to loud and need to be turned down in volume.

[nova]

good tip loopdon. ya was kind of on about both realy. cheers for the link milesy. gonna check it out. i dont understand that say you kick was at 6 db then put an eq onit but the eq is at 0 db. so you wouldnt gain anymore with the eq. and are peeps eq'n the hi frequencies out of there kicks. and to what sort of frequencies.

[nova]

had a read on that. gonna hav to read couple times man. so much info to take in. but definitly a good read. starting to pick a little up now slowly. just gonna tri setting frenquencies up right as i go in the mix. so any db and freenquenies will be wicked. like ,hi ,mid ,low .just basics.

it was saying in there. which i will take note from.but is cool to hear from you guys. wot levels you all like. the techno producers ;)

[nova]

right say ya git ya kick at 6db and ya gonna eq. says any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300hz. right so ya boost ya eq up to 300hz. which type of eq?. just the norm channel eq. and you could bring the hi mid and low up. to get it to 300hz. anyone could expailn. and tri a small boost around 5-6 hz. again wot would be boosted hi mid and low?. and stereo width eq'n. some sounds tobe wide and some not. synth wide. lead bass etc?. drums do they need to be eq'd for width?. i got few different eq plungins with logic. not sure which to be using on what :doh:

[jesus]

just make sure everything's under 0 db so it doesnt clip . i think dirty mentioned having your kick and hats peaking around -1db first then balence all your mids lower than that.

[nova]

make room for the sounds? take low and mid outta hi sounds. hi and low outta mid sounds. and hi and mid outta low sounds. thats trick'e coz dont you want a certain amout of hi in a low sound like a kick or bass?

[nova]

what like on the master channel?. 0db. part channel for kick say 6db?. gotta get my head round this. cheers christ

[Basil Rush]

right say ya git ya kick at 6db and ya gonna eq. says any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300hz. right so ya boost ya eq up to 300hz. which type of eq?. just the norm channel eq. and you could bring the hi mid and low up. to get it to 300hz. anyone could expailn. and tri a small boost around 5-6 hz. again wot would be boosted hi mid and low?. and stereo width eq'n. some sounds tobe wide and some not. synth wide. lead bass etc?. drums do they need to be eq'd for width?. i got few different eq plungins with logic. not sure which to be using on what :doh:

Dude - you just need to practice a lot I think and get your head round what you can do. I don't think you're asking the right question somehow, you seem quite hung up on specific values where as what you need to do is learn to find the values for your self using your ears.

There are some basic rules (that you can break once you understand them), like cut don't boost and cut low stuff out of things that aren't the kick and the bass and all the other stuff people have written above.

But in the end it is almost impossible to say exactly how you should set an EQ up because it really depends on what the sound is you are EQing.

All the frequencies and levels people talk about are guides as to where you might use EQ on your sound to fix a particuar problem or create a particular kind of sound.

The real trick is in knowing what you want to achieve. And the next trick is being able to hear what you've actually got which takes more practice than you can imagine.

But there are some questions you've got that have more speciifc answers as far as choice of EQ, to start with use a nice graphical EQ where you can see what's going on, try Waves Ren EQ 2 if you've got it.

The channel EQ in logic has so many bands it's probably just confusing to start with. But if you've not got Waves though then the channel EQ is fine but try working with just a couple of bands rather than using them all simply because it'll be easier to experiement with only a couple of bands of eq, after you get close, you can throw in some more bands to fine tune it (though additional bands then to use additional processor).

Don't get hung up on like the idea that because someone says -10db is a good amount to think about cutting that you actually have to cut all -10db, maybe -2db will work fine for the sound you are after.

Hope this makes some sense, cause I think you're making it too complicated for yourself but it's very difficult to explain without playing you particular sounds.

[sash]

make sure the accoustics of your room r half decent b4 u eq anything

[nova]

thanks baz,

yeah man. defo making it hard for myself. i dont realy understand the levels and that. but i am thinking about now tho. which is a start.

if you could play some sounds with frenquencies examples. i would hav i listen. and it would be interesting ;) . and helpfull ;)

[nova]

ive been messing around with it in the front room lately. got laminate flooring in there. but do hav it setup in my spare bedroom. would of thout the accoustics are ok in front room. not sure tho

[nova]

and another thing thats abit confusing. is that there loads of read outs for db's. like say on kontakt. you got the db for that part in kontakt. then hav got the part channel db for the channel its on in logic. so thats two different read outs. where should i be checking the db's?

[Evil G]

ive been messing around with it in the front room lately. got laminate flooring in there. but do hav it setup in my spare bedroom. would of thout the accoustics are ok in front room. not sure tho

hard flooring is actually ok. we naturally filter out reflections from the ground. it's reflections from the walls and ceiling, and sound building up in the corners, that you have to worry about.

[nova]

right ive heard little bits on that before. is there blocks i can get to go in the corners of the walls like sound proofing. would sort the spare room out with that. not the front room haha. ;)

[j_s]

right ive heard little bits on that before. is there blocks i can get to go in the corners of the walls like sound proofing. would sort the spare room out with that. not the front room haha. ;)

the blocks that go in the corners of room are basstraps (to stop low frequencies being emphasised). You can stop reflections by dampening the wall with an uneven surface, like a bookshelf or something......

[nova]

i could do with some of them. with wot my neibours are like. wot you guys think on a decent pair of head phones for eq'n?. sennheiser or somthing

[j_s]

i could do with some of them. with wot my neibours are like. wot you guys think on a decent pair of head phones for eq'n?. sennheiser or somthing

headphones aren't much good for mixing/eqing. they're usable but far from ideal......

[nova]

ok cool, i got some moniters anway. there not brilliant but ok. just thout with decent headphone you wouldnt have accoustics to woorry about.

[John Ferraris]

ok cool, i got some moniters anway. there not brilliant but ok. just thout with decent headphone you wouldnt have accoustics to woorry about.

I'll sort u out a pair of monitors cheap if u want mate. They're not great but cost about £150 originally, I'll sell them to u for £30. They're the ones I used to make my first vinyl release about a year ago, so they're up to the job, but obviously aren;t gonna compare to the more expensive ones

[nova]

sounds cool, and cheers for offering. but i hav a set of behringer actives that are about 200watts per cab and amped. so im ok. realy ;)

[John Ferraris]

sounds cool, and cheers for offering. but i hav a set of behringer actives that are about 200watts per cab and amped. so im ok. realy ;)

No worries dude :lol:

[Basil Rush]

we naturally filter out reflections from the ground.

We do?

[Jimfish]

[quote=nova]
hard flooring is actually ok. we naturally filter out reflections from the ground. it's reflections from the walls and ceiling, and sound building up in the corners, that you have to worry about.

in my experience hard flooring is not good :nono:

nothing improved the sound in my new studio more than putting in a raised floor full of insulation and a good carpet +undarlay

[Evil G]

check out this article:

http://www.auralex.com/auralex_acoustics_faqs/faqs.asp?Q=14

[nova]

yeah says its better man more natural. and carpet acts as a low paas filter