Most divided music scene in the world

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Defiently techno. If you look at other scenes, people have their fav artist but they also buy and support many other artist in that scene. Techno seems to have lot of anger towards other styles in the same genre. Maybe we are all guilty of it but I can't believe how divided techno actually is. Some of it probably has to do with the fact everyone wants to be a dj(not me though). Some has to be with the vast variation. Don't know :neutral:

[schlongfingers]

I'm not sure that's true, people just buy music that they like at the end of the day - it's not about 'supporting' a label or an artist, it's about individual tracks that rock your boat.

[eyes without a face]

i wouldnt say its true at all... far from it... sure people dont like certain styles and artists/fans fall out from time to time, but who doesnt, only human afterall!

what about hip hop and the east/west violence that used to be present.... u dont see people into techno pulling guns on each other

[TechMouse]

what about hip hop and the east/west violence that used to be present.... u dont see people into techno pulling guns on each other
Gurns, not guns!

[fresh_an_funky_design]

i definetly think that there is a certain snobbery in techno to a) those who don't play techno and to b) those who play certain styles of techno... from my experiences

[gumpy green]

dunno about this....from my experience we all luv many styles of techno..

at free partys round here ya get everything from old skool, techno, drum and bass, breaks, hardtek..

the whole lot and all the tek headz are up for it all.

and even at our club night weve had a broad range of styles

[RDR]

I think this is a glass half full/ half empty question.


The most "divided" things in life are generally the most rich. The reason 'other' scenes appear to be more compact is that there isnt enough material in them to split apart.

Techno is such a broad broad genre that it can afford to expand. IMHO it is all the more richer for doing so.

And while we are at it - what about house? what about disco? what about rock?

;)

let the flaming begin! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :doh:

[Mirsha]

I think it's because the people who are into techno tend to be more into the music than in other styles which leads to stronger belief in the music and folk can feel a bit more argumentative over it as they can talk about it on a slightly different level to that which exists in other musical genres.

[detfella]

i love music

i dont think there's a genre where i havent found something i love.

[audioinjection]

i think electronic music fans are the most open minded when it comes to music

not all of them of course

[Tony]

uk garage could be described as music with a lot of in-fighting, a bit more than techno.
and it only seems to be on forums where any hatred of other niche styles is really expressed. therefore - ignore opinions on forums, its easier that way!

[OriginalTechnobastard]

But you guys are getting fights in the the different music scene mixed up with divisions with in that scene. Sure there is personal and 'crew' anger that exist in hiphop and garage but its usually is brought up to bring controversy and bump in sales. Everyone who likes that kind of music usually bought music from both ends of the 'beef' where in Techno people act like musical spectrum within the Techno can be from worse thing they heard, to the best. Sometimes it seems like they rather listen to Aguliera then a bad Techno song. People in Techno just don't support other styles in the genre like people in pop, hip hop and garage do.

[gunjack]

the problem with techno is that people think in terms of "scenes" instead of INDUSTRY.

[Joseph Isaac]

the problem with techno is that people think in terms of "scenes" instead of INDUSTRY.

good point, brian...

[The Divide]

In-fightings happening in most music which has different subgenres

[schlongfingers]

I'd say that the problem is people think in terms of industry rather than party.

[Komplex]

the problem with techno is that people think in terms of "scenes" instead of INDUSTRY.

I wouldn't think "industry" is a good term at all. It just smells of business and money. Music is the main focus no? Maybe not for some.

Industry and art/music is a sh!tty combination.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

In-fightings happening in most music which has different subgenres

yeah but not to this extent. People usually buy other subgenres in that music style. Where is here you have people only sticking to few names and denounce everything else. I've mean everyone knows I have my favs. But I give other artist a listen and try to understand where it comes from. I've think thats why there isn't a strong scene any more. People are sticking by only on their subgenres and artist. And I must say I hate the way people just stick to the artist because they have a 'hot' name among other djs and there is a fuss about. It should be what you like instead of trying to play :cool:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

I've think this will open us up to new artist. I always want to learn more artist rather then the same old record going back forth.

[schlongfingers]

I really don't think people do this, it's not a football match, and it's not about being a fan or supporting a side, that's just dumb.

[The Divide]

In-fightings happening in most music which has different subgenres

yeah but not to this extent. People usually buy other subgenres in that music style. Where is here you have people only sticking to few names and denounce everything else. I've mean everyone knows I have my favs. But I give other artist a listen and try to understand where it comes from. I've think thats why there isn't a strong scene any more. People are sticking by only on their subgenres and artist. And I must say I hate the way people just stick to the artist because they have a 'hot' name among other djs and there is a fuss about. It should be what you like instead of trying to play :cool:

I disagree, I spend my days hanging around with depressed rockers at uni who always claim to be more rock and roll than the next persons shite. Other mate of mine who is a ska band showed me some of the arguements they have and its very much like the stuff you get in here

[holotropik]

Techno is not the only form of music to have "divides", as was pointed out.

From experience i have found that this phenomenon occurs when there is a stagnation or a drop in punter interests. This causes a fierce competitivness between members of that particular community trying to voice who is better and hence deserves more attention.

What must be considered is the cause for the lack of interest or support that starts the symptoms of division.

Consider....

When Techno was at its peak there was no problem getting gigs or support from a venue/punters.
When things stagnated artistically the punters left and hence the venues too.
Now, if you mention the word Techno to a venue (at least here in Australia) you will not get much interest as the support from the punters has diminished.

It will take time and a fresh approach to put things back on track.

[Evil G]

i think the amount of in-fighting in any genre is directly proportional to how serious people take it. in other words, the snobbery isn't always unjustified.

[robin m]

I'm not too sure about this either... the more you get involved with and into a particular scene the more complex it seems and the more subgenres become apparent - this is true of any type of music. I imagine that on average people who post in this forum are just more likely to notice 'divisions' within techno than other forms of music, simply because they're more knowledgeable and passionate about it than they are about, as a crap example off the top of my head, RnB.

I may be way off here but I can't recall seeing many posts on this board that are just angry, negative attacks on a particular style of techno that somebody just doesn't like very much... of course people want to promote and develop their own particular sound, and discussion with other people in the scene - even if it does get quite heated - is surely just going to help that whole process. Regardless of how passionate an argument might get between say, someone who's into their hard crunchy loopy stuff and someone who's an acid techno head I'd bet anything that they'd stick together like glue if a blinkered indie fan waded in and started shouting that all techno was sh*t!

On balance I'd say that all the arguing and discussion in this forum is a healthy way for people who love techno as a whole to expand and develop the scene as a whole - it's all for the good and doesn't mean that anyone sees anyone else as "the enemy" (except maybe in the sport forum!). Basically, I reckon that the "divided" appearance of techno you refer to is just a good sign that people are still passionate about it and are still trying to do new things within it...

Anyway, that's my 2p worth - anyone who disagrees and genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy because I own some stay up forever records feel free to shout at me all you want ;)

[gunjack]

the problem with techno is that people think in terms of "scenes" instead of INDUSTRY.

I wouldn't think "industry" is a good term at all. It just smells of business and money. Music is the main focus no? Maybe not for some.

Industry and art/music is a sh!tty combination.

idealism is admirable. starving ain't.

[gunjack]

I'd say that the problem is people think in terms of industry rather than party.


man, you go on with your lil party. i am tryin to get me and all my ppl to WORK. :rambo:

[dirty_bass]

Both points have merit.
It should be fun. And as artists are involved, inspiration needs to be there for progression.
But business does need to be considered.
The parties cost money to put on, and are a business. As are the clubs that they are put on in.
As well as the pressing plants, distributers etc.
The whole thing will grind to a halt unless there is money there.

The idealism of "free" music, is great, but it won`t work, cos someone needs to pay for the vinyl, and the decks, and the soundsystems, and the club nights, and the travel fees etc

[schlongfingers]

So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.

[TechMouse]

It won't work, there's no money in techno.
Try telling Carl Cox that.

[schlongfingers]

Well, there IS money in techno if you concentrate on the sales not the music, but that's what the problem with concentrating on the industry is. It turns the music into watered down tepid shite.

Cox hardly makes or releases good techno these days does he?

[dirty_bass]

So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.

If this is true, then I fear that all the records that we love so much, may stop being made within the year.

[schlongfingers]

OK, you're right of course. Nobody releases music purely for the sake of getting their sound on vinyl. It's purely about building a business.

:doh:

I know that to be false, some put their money where their mouth is without expecting return.

[Evil G]

this may sound a bit rude, but releasing a record that you know wont sell is vain. the whole idea of pressing to a medium (be it vinyl or cd) is to sell it. people making music purely for the intrinsic merit should release it free on the net.

[schlongfingers]

Sorry but it's not vain at all, it's about getting good inventive music out there. Sales are secondary, lots of brilliant music hardly sells at all - if the labels that did tiny runs didn't exist then music would be a sorry state.

Anyway, whatever, it's a bit of a personal thing - at the end of the day each to their own.

[dirty_bass]

this may sound a bit rude, but releasing a record that you know wont sell is vain. the whole idea of pressing to a medium (be it vinyl or cd) is to sell it. people making music purely for the intrinsic merit should release it free on the net.

I agree in a way.
Vinyl is very expensive to produce.
So no one when putting music out, doesn`t expect it to sell.
There is always an element of doubt, but you have to believe in yourelf.
It`s not about being a ****ing millionaire, but there is nothing wrong with being compensated for your hard work.

[Evil G]

i'm certainly not saying that there aren't niche markets for non-mainstream music. if 1 in a million people are into your record, that's still a large number of copies worldwide, and it's worth putting out there. but if you lose money time after time, i think a reality check is in order, that's all...

[Komplex]

If your intention to write and release a track or to start a label is motivated by making a buck first and foremost then congratulations to you. Be proud...

I'll just buy music from the people who actually care about pushing quality music first, before making a buck.

[Adverse]

So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.

If this is true, then I fear that all the records that we love so much, may stop being made within the year.

:lol:

[holotropik]

Its a tricky thing when the economics of business get tangled up with music. There can be a danger of music all being similar in order to target what is "the in thing". Labels (in any genre) will tend to back something that sounds like another tune that is successful.

When pressing to vinyl it is even more of a risk as there must be a solid market ready for the release due to the investment of going to press. Its not easy to do, it takes time and delicate intuition to build up a labels reputation to attract regular customers.

Releasing to other formats (ie: digital) is a good tool for labels to use in order to "test the water" of a potential new artist or fresh style emerging. Digital formats also help labels to expand their potential market by offering their product to the millions of fans who have portable media players now too....(not to mention new technology available for mixing)

Its all about choice.

Sorry to further take this thread away from its original point of discussion....oops!!

[Evil G]

If your intention to write and release a track or to start a label is motivated by making a buck first and foremost then congratulations to you. Be proud...

I'll just buy music from the people who actually care about pushing quality music first, before making a buck.

man, you are taking what i said the wrong way. of course quality comes before cash flow. but if it's good, people like you and me will buy it, and it will pay for itself. if it's not good, and nobody wants to buy it, you shouldn't press it. it would be like giving a speach to an empty room.

[Evil G]

in other words, i'm not saying that producers should "sell out" and only make tunes that will sell in large numbers, i'm saying that producers should release quality tunes that will realistically break even.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

If your intention to write and release a track or to start a label is motivated by making a buck first and foremost then congratulations to you. Be proud...

I'll just buy music from the people who actually care about pushing quality music first, before making a buck.

man, you are taking what i said the wrong way. of course quality comes before cash flow. but if it's good, people like you and me will buy it, and it will pay for itself. if it's not good, and nobody wants to buy it, you shouldn't press it. it would be like giving a speach to an empty room.
speech to an empty room :clap: ! I've bet plenty of people here know about that :doh: Just joking but noone can deny a good riff! Lets just say Zombie nation was illegally copied in 30 different countries :oops:
But the thing is when r ppl going to hang up the 'high hats' n try something really different?

[schlongfingers]

But the thing is when r ppl going to hang up the 'high hats' n try something really different?

When they stop giving a shit about how many they can sell and concentrate on making original music.

[gunjack]

hahaha man i came up making the music i wanted... and i aint changed. i will never reccomend changing your style to sell records, but one must be diverse. i got clubby tracks for the club, dark tracks for the festival, experimental tracks for the smoking hour, hip hop for the cars... but what does that get me?! "most diverse producer of the year award"? naw, it gets me a bunch of unreleased stuff to shop around with concept and industry in mind. I HAVE NEVER MADE A TRACK WITH SALES IN MIND. there are tracks though that will obviously sell better than others.

the folks who kno me will tell you that i would NEVER have spoken about industry and marketing 5 years ago, but it is an experience.


So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.


and thanks for the news flash smartass, but there IS money in techno. playing gigs pays. but how do we get gigs? NEWSFLASH NUMBER 2: MARKETING, IMAGE, PUBLICITY.

**** being a broke assed purist. techno aint the end all and be all to music and i am creepin up on 30 years old, you think i wanna be making banging techno at 30?! i had a dream to define my own sound within the genre of techno. now, 30 friggin records later, i have another dream... to be recognized and successfull as AN ARTIST, not as a techno beatsmith.


this year deafmosaic recordings becomes DEAFMOSAIC GLOBAL ENTERTAINMENT GROUP. we are getting into the hip hop mixtape game. launching a new urban music label based around CD releases in best buy, wallmart etc. creating DVDs, breaking new artists in MANY MANY genres. DM and GCS will continue to release my signature sound and that of the folks round me, but we will no longer limit ourselves to the "techno" world, because there are SO MANY interesting things going on nowadays that we would be awfully STUPID to overspecialize at this point.

a lot of you fools are going to laugh when my publicist puts me on the circuit later this year, you will be like: look at that fool gunny rappin on tv. look at that fool gunny playing jazz in bars round nyc, look at that fool puttin his picture on the records(yea i heard you all talikin shit bout dm06)
look at that fool doing melodic releases on MB selektions ( yea you fools were laughing til you found out ruskin etc. were doing it too)


i trited to tell the spanish boys that in order to gain recognition and respect for the spanish artists, that they would have to learn not to overspecialize and would have to invest in publicity like the detroit boys, nobody listened and now look. BACK TO SQUARE ONE. **** it, i aint getting left behind. you gotta be a leader in this shit. all these people releasing double albums with 8 techno tracks on it is stupid imo. we have achance to cross over and do something to bring techno out of dirty warehouses and into focus as an art, but all this "purism" has cost us the right to an industry which turned out to be just a passing "scene"... cuz folks just got so deep into one little "niche" sound that they forgot about the rest of the f4cking world.



RANT OVER :roll:

[Evil G]

nice rant. :clap:

[schlongfingers]

Interesting rant, the crux of which is you're gonna make other music and concentrate on publicity and marketing in other genres. Precisely my point, fair play and good luck with your plans! But to me it doesnt pin down to bringing TECHNO music out of warehouses, it pins down to you being succesful as an artist across the board. **** bringing techno out of warehouses, it's where it belongs.

The problem with TECHNO, I still stand by this, is that there are too many people seeing where others have made a small amount of money and have attempted to cash in by making similar music - this is not directed at YOU Gunjack, it's at techno artists and labels in general. Keep it niche and experimental or sacrifice it's nature.

[holotropik]

i like what this thread has to say. its really covering some interesting points.

it says that Techno is in that defining period (a pubescent phase) where it is morphing into a more defined style through which it can stand on its own, with a history and identifiable identity.

hip-hop went through this if you remember....(the great MC vs DJ wars etc). many styles have suffered this transition period in order to grow stronger and become entrenched into culture.

[dirty_bass]

When do we get Gunjack lunchboxes, and free Gunjack toys in Cap`n` Crunch Cereal.

[gunjack]

over saturation aint the idea either brah. you got to kno when to play the back too...

[gunjack]

Interesting rant, the crux of which is you're gonna make other music and concentrate on publicity and marketing in other genres. Precisely my point, fair play and good luck with your plans! But to me it doesnt pin down to bringing TECHNO music out of warehouses, it pins down to you being succesful as an artist across the board. **** bringing techno out of warehouses, it's where it belongs.

The problem with TECHNO, I still stand by this, is that there are too many people seeing where others have made a small amount of money and have attempted to cash in by making similar music - this is not directed at YOU Gunjack, it's at techno artists and labels in general. Keep it niche and experimental or sacrifice it's nature.


yeah man gwan ravin in a warehouse with the rolling kids and watch the generations pass... techno music has never been marketed properly and we are still under the thumb of the 90's rave stigma. i came up in the warehouse, but look at mills and my boy stingray playing at cannes film festival this year....

[gumpy green]

dont think playing at these event makes it less or more of an art tho.

i personally think techno should stay underground in warehouses/free partys etc....as soon as you let commercial cunts into anything it fuks it up.

[schlongfingers]

Pah, you clearly don't go to proper parties mr mosaic. There's no generation passing by the warehouse side of things. You seem to be obsessed with commercialising something that will never be commercial cos it's roots are at loggerheads with the very idea.

Get on with it then, I'd really like to see you push techno forward by having your mug on mtv.

[stjohn]

Deaf: im sure you influenced by your american backgrounds but here in Ireland, our free party scene isnt just rolling kids, its pretty much 1,000+ like minded 20-40somethings (often younger&older) having a buzz in forest... and whether they are mad out of it or not, is up to them! but when the party is thrown right and 'electric deluxe' (jsut an example) is at its peak.... im the happiest man you're ever going to see.....

MTV and popular culture would demolish this atmosphere....

some my best clubbing experiences were in sh*tholes, with grime on the walls, piss overflowing in the jaxx, and local djs bangin it out. we had a big club, similar to Shine in belfast, bringin the big names.... and although i had many a great night, nothing can compare to those nights in the shithole....and thats what its about....good music and fun!!

people at these events and parties, work like normal people, make tunes, get stuff done, express themselves, do business, market products and live the generations happily!

i

[dirty_bass]

There`s a lot to be said for taking techno out to more people.
But MTV?
no way.
MTV is the maggot in the shite of popular media.

[Alan Oldham]

hahaha man i came up making the music i wanted... and i aint changed. i will never reccomend changing your style to sell records, but one must be diverse. i got clubby tracks for the club, dark tracks for the festival, experimental tracks for the smoking hour, hip hop for the cars... but what does that get me?! "most diverse producer of the year award"? naw, it gets me a bunch of unreleased stuff to shop around with concept and industry in mind. I HAVE NEVER MADE A TRACK WITH SALES IN MIND. there are tracks though that will obviously sell better than others.

the folks who kno me will tell you that i would NEVER have spoken about industry and marketing 5 years ago, but it is an experience.


So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.


and thanks for the news flash smartass, but there IS money in techno. playing gigs pays. but how do we get gigs? NEWSFLASH NUMBER 2: MARKETING, IMAGE, PUBLICITY.

**** being a broke assed purist. techno aint the end all and be all to music and i am creepin up on 30 years old, you think i wanna be making banging techno at 30?! i had a dream to define my own sound within the genre of techno. now, 30 friggin records later, i have another dream... to be recognized and successfull as AN ARTIST, not as a techno beatsmith.


this year deafmosaic recordings becomes DEAFMOSAIC GLOBAL ENTERTAINMENT GROUP. we are getting into the hip hop mixtape game. launching a new urban music label based around CD releases in best buy, wallmart etc. creating DVDs, breaking new artists in MANY MANY genres. DM and GCS will continue to release my signature sound and that of the folks round me, but we will no longer limit ourselves to the "techno" world, because there are SO MANY interesting things going on nowadays that we would be awfully STUPID to overspecialize at this point.

a lot of you fools are going to laugh when my publicist puts me on the circuit later this year, you will be like: look at that fool gunny rappin on tv. look at that fool gunny playing jazz in bars round nyc, look at that fool puttin his picture on the records(yea i heard you all talikin shit bout dm06)
look at that fool doing melodic releases on MB selektions ( yea you fools were laughing til you found out ruskin etc. were doing it too)


i trited to tell the spanish boys that in order to gain recognition and respect for the spanish artists, that they would have to learn not to overspecialize and would have to invest in publicity like the detroit boys, nobody listened and now look. BACK TO SQUARE ONE. **** it, i aint getting left behind. you gotta be a leader in this shit. all these people releasing double albums with 8 techno tracks on it is stupid imo. we have achance to cross over and do something to bring techno out of dirty warehouses and into focus as an art, but all this "purism" has cost us the right to an industry which turned out to be just a passing "scene"... cuz folks just got so deep into one little "niche" sound that they forgot about the rest of the f4cking world.



RANT OVER :roll:

I knew there was a reason I supported you from the beginning.

DJ T-1000 says Gunjack is the sh**.

[gunjack]

man i came up in the warehouses, i aint saying kill off the underground element of techno music, all i am saying is: GROW UP! GET ORGANIZED AND DONT BE AFRAID TO USE THE THINGS YOU HAVE AT YOUR DISPOSAL in order to make a living!

[gunjack]

hahaha man i came up making the music i wanted... and i aint changed. i will never reccomend changing your style to sell records, but one must be diverse. i got clubby tracks for the club, dark tracks for the festival, experimental tracks for the smoking hour, hip hop for the cars... but what does that get me?! "most diverse producer of the year award"? naw, it gets me a bunch of unreleased stuff to shop around with concept and industry in mind. I HAVE NEVER MADE A TRACK WITH SALES IN MIND. there are tracks though that will obviously sell better than others.

the folks who kno me will tell you that i would NEVER have spoken about industry and marketing 5 years ago, but it is an experience.


So you're concentrating on making money then Deaf?

It won't work, there's no money in techno.


and thanks for the news flash smartass, but there IS money in techno. playing gigs pays. but how do we get gigs? NEWSFLASH NUMBER 2: MARKETING, IMAGE, PUBLICITY.

**** being a broke assed purist. techno aint the end all and be all to music and i am creepin up on 30 years old, you think i wanna be making banging techno at 30?! i had a dream to define my own sound within the genre of techno. now, 30 friggin records later, i have another dream... to be recognized and successfull as AN ARTIST, not as a techno beatsmith.


this year deafmosaic recordings becomes DEAFMOSAIC GLOBAL ENTERTAINMENT GROUP. we are getting into the hip hop mixtape game. launching a new urban music label based around CD releases in best buy, wallmart etc. creating DVDs, breaking new artists in MANY MANY genres. DM and GCS will continue to release my signature sound and that of the folks round me, but we will no longer limit ourselves to the "techno" world, because there are SO MANY interesting things going on nowadays that we would be awfully STUPID to overspecialize at this point.

a lot of you fools are going to laugh when my publicist puts me on the circuit later this year, you will be like: look at that fool gunny rappin on tv. look at that fool gunny playing jazz in bars round nyc, look at that fool puttin his picture on the records(yea i heard you all talikin shit bout dm06)
look at that fool doing melodic releases on MB selektions ( yea you fools were laughing til you found out ruskin etc. were doing it too)


i trited to tell the spanish boys that in order to gain recognition and respect for the spanish artists, that they would have to learn not to overspecialize and would have to invest in publicity like the detroit boys, nobody listened and now look. BACK TO SQUARE ONE. **** it, i aint getting left behind. you gotta be a leader in this shit. all these people releasing double albums with 8 techno tracks on it is stupid imo. we have achance to cross over and do something to bring techno out of dirty warehouses and into focus as an art, but all this "purism" has cost us the right to an industry which turned out to be just a passing "scene"... cuz folks just got so deep into one little "niche" sound that they forgot about the rest of the f4cking world.



RANT OVER :roll:

I knew there was a reason I supported you from the beginning.

DJ T-1000 says Gunjack is the sh**.

hey a. i will see you later this year in chicago. do stay in touch.

[gunjack]

Pah, you clearly don't go to proper parties mr mosaic.

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah. come to spain and you will shit yourself.

[gunjack]

There`s a lot to be said for taking techno out to more people.
But MTV?
no way.
MTV is the maggot in the shite of popular media.

internet radio, mtv, vh1, viva, I DONT GIVE A F4CK if they play my videos, they are putting money in my pocket. i am sick of judging one company as "more respectable" than another. ITS ALL THE SAME SHIT. i respect the company who pays the artists on time and helps get my music and artists to a wider audience.

[schlongfingers]

bwoooohoooohooo I have been.

You're about cash mate.

[gumpy green]

internet radio, mtv, vh1, viva, I DONT GIVE A F4CK if they play my videos, they are putting money in my pocket.

may be wrong but that comment suggest you would sellout to this kind of market......it aint all about the money.

[dirty_bass]

P-Diddy Vs Gunjack?

[gunjack]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

[Evil G]

go on dude!

there is a huge difference between writing a track with sales in mind, and writing a track with music in mind, but following through with trying to sell it once you are finished.

[dirty_bass]

Ok folks.
So get your label logo printed on some flip flops.


http://www.iterativemusic.com/~dirtybass/DBFlipflops.jpg

I got mine done already muthaphukkas.
I`m gonna be minted!!!

[Adverse]

oh man.

[tocsin]

we have achance to cross over and
do something to bring techno out of dirty warehouses and into focus as an art, but all this "purism" has cost us the
right to an industry which turned out to be just a passing "scene"... cuz folks just got so deep into one little
"niche" sound that they forgot about the rest of the f4cking world.

I could not agree with this statement more. "Purity" is what I was running from when I got into techno. I liked music that would throw just about any sound imaginable together to make something that sounded good and was fun. When I started playing with more electronic compositions myself, I liked the fact that there was nobody around me establishing silly little rules about how a track should be arranged or sound. And, in case 1996-1997 wasn't enough of a hint for the states, there is a HUGE amount of room to truly blend hip-hop and techno together to make something incredibly unique with a hell of a lot of support. Some of the more mainstream hip-hop production crews have sorta cuaght on to that fact. But, it really hasn't been taken anywhere to it's fullest. Why? "Purity." **** that noise. For all the people who whine about the lack of progression, nothing "progressed" through petty "purity."

Yo, Deaf. I'd asked you before about what you were planning on with the hip-hop related ideas. I'd really like to hear some of it if you have any samples.

[Patrick DSP]

oh man.

you said it, man. you said it.

[BRADLEE]

Techno is techno. No matter what sub genre. Sure we all have preferances as to what we like, but we should all still support those who are just trying to make it. After all, that is a goal for all of us right?? To make music and to make a living from what we love...isn't that the point??? Not to become famous or some snob because of the amount of releases you have or the label your on....but just because you do what you do and you love it. However as with any other job, you need to get paid. Everyone has to eat right??? And as Brian said, we need money to make tunes and to progress in production level.

[dirty_bass]

I think all of us are trailing behind Pat though
he has the best marketing yet
with his.....
http://www.iterativemusic.com/~dirtybass/dspknickers.jpg
Patrick DSP Incontinence Knickers Signature Series!!!

[Patrick DSP]

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'M SMOOTH!!!

[dan the acid man]

I think all of us are trailing behind Pat though
he has the best marketing yet
with his.....
http://www.iterativemusic.com/~dirtybass/dspknickers.jpg
Patrick DSP Incontinence Knickers Signature Series!!!


hahahahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Adverse]

jesus.

[audioinjection]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[xfive]

bahahahahaaaa

[Patrick DSP]

But enough of the jokes.

Techno is techno. You get what you put into it. If you deal with it graciously, kindly, with gratitude, and just doing what you love, then you will not have problems.

The only reason why you see so many ugly sides of it is because you are a part of it. Do you not think the automotive industry isn't ugly? How about the modeling industry? What about jazz? Do you know how many people bitch about Dixieland jazz (because you cannot dance to it). In addition, you remember what you want to remember and you deal with what you want to deal with. But hey, it is your life. I will deal with good friends and good people and do things that make my loved ones and me happy, nothing else really matters.

How much money did Forbes leave when he dies?
Answer: ALL OF IT!

-p.dsp


ps- thanks steve!!!

[Mindful]

Techno the most devided scene in the world?
I would say no...........but after reading the past 5 or 6 pages of discussion I would say their is a healthy division for sure

[dirty_bass]

I can`t be serious about this anymore, I`m killing myself with these knickers.
I would actually pay money for these.


I think all of us are trailing behind Pat though
he has the best marketing yet
with his.....
http://www.iterativemusic.com/~dirtybass/dspknickers.jpg
Patrick DSP Incontinence Knickers Signature Series!!!

[BRADLEE]

Hmmm, maybe I should make my own brand of Blunt Raps then....then when you get high, you can go and puff a "MESSANGER".... :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/messanger/messtoke2untitled6.jpg

[gunjack]

jesus.

now that dude had marketing. ;)

[gunjack]

we have achance to cross over and
do something to bring techno out of dirty warehouses and into focus as an art, but all this "purism" has cost us the
right to an industry which turned out to be just a passing "scene"... cuz folks just got so deep into one little
"niche" sound that they forgot about the rest of the f4cking world.

I could not agree with this statement more. "Purity" is what I was running from when I got into techno. I liked music that would throw just about any sound imaginable together to make something that sounded good and was fun. When I started playing with more electronic compositions myself, I liked the fact that there was nobody around me establishing silly little rules about how a track should be arranged or sound. And, in case 1996-1997 wasn't enough of a hint for the states, there is a HUGE amount of room to truly blend hip-hop and techno together to make something incredibly unique with a hell of a lot of support. Some of the more mainstream hip-hop production crews have sorta cuaght on to that fact. But, it really hasn't been taken anywhere to it's fullest. Why? "Purity." **** that noise. For all the people who whine about the lack of progression, nothing "progressed" through petty "purity."

Yo, Deaf. I'd asked you before about what you were planning on with the hip-hop related ideas. I'd really like to hear some of it if you have any samples.


word? i will shoot ya some mp3s when i get back to the fatherland next month. ;)

[The Overfiend]

D
S
P
Draws,
simply classic.

[The Overfiend]

jesus.

now that dude had marketing. ;)

lessons from the architect long lasting

[gunjack]

phoenix must be getting hot as ****!!! i will try to shoot through and see you on my way to l.a. in the first part of june! :twisted:

[GothamGrooves.com]

The problem is a larger percentage of the Techno scene is comprised of elitests as opposed to other genres which have more reg party kids who don't really care about the details, just going out and having fun...
I'll admitt it, I have ripped on many kids who dont know jack shit but I have def learned that those kids who dont come back weaken the techno scene.

[schlongfingers]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

I'm not a kid mate, been involved in techno for the last ten years+ neither am I a 'purist', i just think you are trying to commercialise a non commercial music for your own gain.

Anyway, time will tell innit.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

Who let Tupac in? Seriously this has nothing to do with my disagreement with Tocsin, but do you seriously think you're revolutionary for mixing up beats of techno with mcing? I've mean using the great production of Techno or Electro with, 'appealling to millions' of rap is not something unique. I thought about this before but if you are going to do this then it won't be Techno. Everyone knows the kids talk about the beat, how rap is to dance to but most of hiphop production is dire(along with the idea of mcing). If you are fusing hip-hop it would be totally 'selling-out'. What else would you call it? Because rap is good? You're fusing mainstream with Techno. I think the though if you think that music has really something to offer, then its your opinion. So I guess you are being honest with yourself. It won't change how people look at you :evil: Then I guess you want to meet PDiddy! Hehehehe. So many people over in US think hip-hop and reggae is the only dance music it would be kind of funny when they see all these European guys with some serious bangers :clap: :clap: :clap: Teach them a lesson!

[dirty_bass]

White boys making hip hip just don`t have the cred.
Eminem did it. But look who was pulling the strings.
You present a bunch of gangster culture kids, with the intelligently made, but basically zero cred (in their eyes) of techno, they are gonna pass it over without even blinking.
UNLESS
You get a mate to shoot you 10 TIMES!!
then you got fiddy beat hands down, and the kids will think your cool.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

No what if you have a new upcoming mc and your techno skills. It still is shit in terms of making techno go forward but I've think there is a market for it because rap has a very stronghold in US. I've think techno needs to be more known to shake up US market. I defiently think Techno can be better marketed better but to jump on hip-hop is not the way. I've think to do that in one way is to stick together. Be constructive when making negative comments and be more united. I've think vocals can be a good thing sometimes but mcing is a nono. But I don't believe in mcing so there you go.Techno is the best music to dance to. Best music to rock your body and the most unconventional music out there. Techno is cool, kids :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[dirty_bass]

yeah, sure, we can do with taking techno out there to more people.
But hip hop is so competative, and riddled with bling or bang based cred.
Vocals can be used in techno for sure, but I think keep it techno. Hip hop has it`s roots in the streets, techno has it`s roots in the mind.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

The last sentence :clap: ! I basically agree with that whole post.

[tocsin]

yeah, sure, we can do with taking techno out there to more people.
But hip hop is so competative, and riddled with bling or bang based cred.
Vocals can be used in techno for sure, but I think keep it techno. Hip hop has it`s roots in the streets, techno has it`s roots in the mind.

No offense, but this is completely silly. First off, why the hell do you need to stick to a stereotypical image in music? I used to love hip-hop and I was never into the bling-bling or majority of gangster shit. There is so much other good work out there. Public Enemy, as one example, was hip-hop from the mind. I guess you have to listen to hip-hop, rather than watch it, to find something that isn't a rock cliche. If you want to "progress," you need to shatter all of your self-created subjective boundaries. If you can't do that, eventually you will fall into a predictable rut and fade out of the picture. That's just how it goes. All music is competitive once you try and put it out for paid consumption. If it wasn't, every single user of this forum who had ever written a track would have records out. But, this isn't really the case. And when you do something that's completely unheard of by most people, you don't have to worry about competition so much because there wont be any yet.

[dirty_bass]

I`ve got plenty of hip hop. Mostly the more intelligent, and less "I`m a gansgter and I`ve sold a lot of drugs" stuff
But for the most part, it is based around the bling and bang in terms of commerciality anyway.
Only the more underground stuff is really more diverse.
Why substitute underground techno for underground hip hop, when what you are talking about is commerciality?
I`m totally unsure about your point?

[OriginalTechnobastard]

[quote="dirty_bass"
I`m totally unsure about your point?[/quote]

Not the first one, and won't be the last

[gumpy green]

yup the "conscious" hiphop is very intelligent and totally well produced....just as good or better than techno....

try krsone
phi-life cypher
poor righteous teachers..

then again some of the bling bling gansta, i gonna fuk you up stuff is lyrically very good too......kool kieth being an example of this "i dont give a fuk style".....

Dunno if it would fuse well but im sure someone could get it sounding fresh with elements of both in ther.....i dunno, i like both alot but think id still rather hear em seperate.....id still like to hear it done well tho, could be quite a good sound and summin new for the ears...

[tocsin]

I`ve got plenty of hip hop. Mostly the more intelligent, and less "I`m a gansgter and I`ve sold a lot of drugs" stuff
But for the most part, it is based around the bling and bang in terms of commerciality anyway.
Only the more underground stuff is really more diverse.
Why substitute underground techno for underground hip hop, when what you are talking about is commerciality?
I`m totally unsure about your point?

I'm not talking about substituting techno or hip-hop with anything. I'm talking about doing something completely new. In a nutshell, techno has isolated itself as a style of music. The techno artists who have not isolated themselves are branded as sell-outs. Hip-hop has become such a cliche that it has lost a number of listeners. Not so much that the industry would notice. But, it's a number of listeners that could and would get back into it again if the message and music was right. In my backyard, the techno I enjoy and the only is of both the street and the mind, just like the hip-hop I enjoy. Therefore, I don't see how you have any substitution going on when artists who had more influence/interest in one sound start working on another. What would happen, if done right, is a completely new sound that would be appealing. Leave it to the marketers to figure out what to call it. I couldn't care less. But, generally, I do get tired of watching techno, or any other style of music I've enjoyed,
shoot itself in the foot by holding up self-created prison walls, often established and supported under the concept of remaining "pure," "true," "underground," etc. I couldn't care less how people say other music scenes are and what their about. When that talk starts being taken seriously, it's when you see the dreaded lack of progression that so many people seem to bitch about here.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

like what you are doing by any chance?

[tocsin]

like what you are doing by any chance?

If you're so interested and think you have a point with this, go to discogs.com.

[dirty_bass]

I still don`t see techno moving into MTV domain is healthy.
You can increase the audience of the music, and the commerciality, without having to turn to something like MTV to do this.
Plus the techno/hip hop thing isn`t really anything new is it.
I`m sure there are other more expansive and far more original areas techno can go to.

[tocsin]

I still don`t see techno moving into MTV domain is healthy.
You can increase the audience of the music, and the commerciality, without having to turn to something like MTV to do this.
Plus the techno/hip hop thing isn`t really anything new is it.
I`m sure there are other more expansive and far more original areas techno can go to.

When's the last time you heard it being done both well and consistently? I never have. I've heard a couple lucky one-off collaborations here and there and that's it. Besdies, who said anything about moving over to MTV? If you have something good, MTV will move to you whether you like it or not. If you are ever in such a situation, you can spend time fighting it until you are replaced by some flash in the pan MTV project, or you could stay true to what your love while using all available channels to reach an audience. If you think there are other more expansive and original routes that techno can move, then by all means pursue them. But, it's silly to knock something as unoriginal before you've even heard it, right? So far, all you're going on are pre-conceived notions that have been dictated to you from an industry that none of us have any connection with outside of being a solicited audience that isn't interested in buying. I'm pretty much with DeafMosaic on this one. I'd like to see techno reach
as large of a crowd as possible. I think that can be done without anyone losing their integrity. It would only help to encourage people with different outlooks and ideas to get involved in making the music as well. It's not healthy to live in isolation. It just guaruntees a lonely death.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Like I've said don't think you are clever for thinking of it like its your idea. Anyone into Techno/Hiphop probably thought of it. I don't agree with hip-hop so why ruin something that is special? There is much better ideas than it. But whatever! You believe in it, do it. Like I've said be4, it won't stop people thinking its lame. Good for you guys think of the big league though :clap: And tocsin well done for using commercial success as a benchmark for importance as an achievement. :clap:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

By the way before you try anything check C Denza's Punisher! Sorry to break the bad news.

[tocsin]

Like I've said don't think you are clever for thinking of it like its your idea. Anyone into Techno/Hiphop probably thought of it. I don't agree with hip-hop so why ruin something that is special? There is much better ideas than it. But whatever! You believe in it, do it. Like I've said be4, it won't stop people thinking its lame. Good for you guys think of the big league though :clap: And tocsin well done for using commercial success as a benchmark for importance as an achievement. :clap:

Thanks for your suggestion. Seriously, if you want to assassinate my character based on the discussion of a sound which you haven't heard yet, or based on words which I've never said (ie. success being related to commercial exposure), just PM me. Nobody else needs to be subjected to it. But, don't worry, I'm not the one to run around and pretend to be the first kid on the block to do something. I don't see how it's relevant at all here.

[gunjack]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

Who let Tupac in? Seriously this has nothing to do with my disagreement with Tocsin, but do you seriously think you're revolutionary for mixing up beats of techno with mcing? I've mean using the great production of Techno or Electro with, 'appealling to millions' of rap is not something unique. I thought about this before but if you are going to do this then it won't be Techno. Everyone knows the kids talk about the beat, how rap is to dance to but most of hiphop production is dire(along with the idea of mcing). If you are fusing hip-hop it would be totally 'selling-out'. What else would you call it? Because rap is good? You're fusing mainstream with Techno. I think the though if you think that music has really something to offer, then its your opinion. So I guess you are being honest with yourself. It won't change how people look at you :evil: Then I guess you want to meet PDiddy! Hehehehe. So many people over in US think hip-hop and reggae is the only dance music it would be kind of funny when they see all these European guys with some serious bangers :clap: :clap: :clap: Teach them a lesson!

are you talking to me? pffffft

you know what? F4ck all your lil' assumptions, i never "jumped" to hip hop, i have so many projects bro, and been making hip hop since BEFORE i ever made techno. who the f4ck do you think you are?


ANYWAY



and shlong, I AINT TRYING TO COMMERCIALIZE TECHNO MUSIC, i am trying to commercialize the way in which we do business.


take the word commercial, what is the root word? commerce!


websters says:

Main Entry: 1com·merce
Pronunciation: 'kä-(")m&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin commercium, from com- + merc-, merx merchandise
: social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments.


hmmm sounds good to me!

[GothamGrooves.com]

White boys making hip hip just don`t have the cred.
Eminem did it. But look who was pulling the strings.
You present a bunch of gangster culture kids, with the intelligently made, but basically zero cred (in their eyes) of techno, they are gonna pass it over without even blinking.
UNLESS
You get a mate to shoot you 10 TIMES!!
then you got fiddy beat hands down, and the kids will think your cool.

Umm let me give all you boyz n girlz a qick lesson. The whole gangster thing was in the late 80's and early 90's. Right now its all an image, and it is fueled by a bunch of white kids who have too many resources at their disposal. Once these wiggers taste the real world things will change.
The dorky white boyz at the top are pulling the strings, using these "artists" as puppets to drive the image forward. simple as that

[dirty_bass]

White boys making hip hip just don`t have the cred.
Eminem did it. But look who was pulling the strings.
You present a bunch of gangster culture kids, with the intelligently made, but basically zero cred (in their eyes) of techno, they are gonna pass it over without even blinking.
UNLESS
You get a mate to shoot you 10 TIMES!!
then you got fiddy beat hands down, and the kids will think your cool.

Umm let me give all you boyz n girlz a qick lesson. The whole gangster thing was in the late 80's and early 90's. Right now its all an image, and it is fueled by a bunch of white kids who have too many resources at their disposal. Once these wiggers taste the real world things will change.
The dorky white boyz at the top are pulling the strings, using these "artists" as puppets to drive the image forward. simple as that

Erm, your point?


Anyway, a discussion on improving promotion and improving the business side of techno definitely needs addressing.
However, I think a lot of the underlying problems lie with the nature of the system at the moment, and not necessarily with the music itself.

Of course, as has been said in this forum many times before. The road into techno can be a rather convoluted one. So there does need to be some way of exposing techno to people outside the club scene.
Techno supergroup?

In terms of general promotion, I think something beyond the old promo`s sent to DJ`s, or magazine reviews (magazines are distribution fewer and fewer numbers,and the review is just an opinion, and isn`t really related to the music in any way) is needed.

I have a project I am setting up to improve promotion opportunities for labels, but at the end of the day, it`s basically down to a bit more money and effort being thrown into things.

[tocsin]

Is marketing really the problem? Or is it that most people think they've heard the sound before and find it dull?

[dirty_bass]

Well any product or markey needs fresh customers, so too speak.
Old customers will always get bored, too old, move on or whatever.
I don`t think techno is really getting enough exposure to new people.

[MARKEG]

deaf/tocsin, please calm down guys.. for me.. pleeeeeasseee???!!!!

:lol: :lol:

do you know, i like this topic. and i have to say, i'm feeling what you're saying right there deaf. i badly want techno to be accepted and to be fair we need someone to take it further than the boys did in the early 90's. and you're right, mills, clarke and hawtin etc have the marketing down to a t. and that's why they are the sucesses they are.

but with some sort of 'commercialism', as long as the roots are in place and the RIGHT people are there to take it forward, then I can't see a problem. as long as you're stilll allowing the genre to be creative then SO WHAT. but that's the confusion i'm seeing on this thread. people think any type of commercialism automatically means the music will suffer.

well after years of being involved in this industry and sometimes djing and being involved with the border of ' the commercial industry' (mags/certain venues/major companies), i say you CAN keep the innocennce of creativity and art and mix it with a healthy business sense, to take your product to more people. the problem we have is not enough people in the techno scene that can fuse business and art. 90% of artists in this genre haven't got a clue about marketing, about dealing in the business world with professional people and if they ever were propelled into the spotlight, they know they'd be shagged up the ass, so they maintain a low key 'faceless' techno approach and spend their lives stuggling to survive, putting out beautiful music. then one day knock it all on the head and have to get a real job. absolutely tragic and not something that i will ever allow to happpen to me.

i used to say the same as alot of people on here. carl cox sell out this, 'must keep techno underground' that. well to a certain extent this is true, creativity really thrives when you have to struggle. but it can also thrive in a different way when you don't have to struggle. stinky warehouses that stink of piss are amazing places in my book, but so is sitting in my new studio where everything is new, lights are flashing, i've just had a good hoover round and everything is neat and tidy. ahhhhhh lovely feeling. you've just gotta make sure that once that studio door is shut NOTHING you do is governed by outside forces of the business stuff you're involved in.

what's wrong with then coming out and trying to take your product to as many ppl as possible???? i mean REALLY. what the hell is wrong with that.

just a quick point though. hip hop. hmmmmm.. i'm not feeling that will work. hip house was great in 1988/9 for the 4/4 generation, a bit of a laugh, but never reallly had the attidue that young ppl needed in music. i'm not going to say it cant be done, hell i can't wait to hear the results, but surely if this was that easy to achieve it would have been done already. i mean let's be sensible here. house and electro/hip-hop have been running alongside each other for twenty years now. why has no-one done it already???? i'll tell you why.... i thiink you know my answer

;)

OK great discussion. Keep it friendly eh :clap:

[Stella Boy]

I still don`t see techno moving into MTV domain is healthy.
You can increase the audience of the music, and the commerciality, without having to turn to something like MTV to do this.


How ?

Radio ? - Pah, if radio in england is to go by then forget it
Magazines ? - Pah, especially with the amount of sh!te publications about at the moment

[SlavikSvensk]

i agree with you, mark...while i personally don't think mixing techno with hip-hop is the way forward, i would keep an open mind if someone came along and did it in an original and engaging manner.

my beef with techno nowadays is that it much of it seems too self-referential and inbred. would LOVE to hear a new underground record that hit me the way "the wipe" or "heavenly" still do, or tore it up like "the bells." and i really wouldn't mind if someone did crossover, as long as it was creative and of high-quality...

maybe the key is for people who love techno to just plain make music, and try to free themselves of the sub-genre boundaries we impose upon ourselves...

[Evil G]

i actually see some people in hip-hop moving towards us as well. there are lots of posts on message boards from hip-hop producers who are asking about which synths they would need to add some "rave" leads to their tracks. many are looking for that 97 super-saw trance sound, but if they haven't heard much techno, they have to start somewhere.

[MARKEG]

RE: Most divided music scene in the world.

The reason in my book why techno gets all these arguments is cause there is no rule book! So no-one knows what is acceptable and what isn't. It's all a matter of opinion. It's like this discussion we're having above about commercialism. Who's right?! I'm 100% convinced I am based upon what I've leart.... but I could be wrong - if I really think about it. There's alot I don't know.

There's only a handful of people that have ever crossed the commercial divide and those are the guys that hold the rule book on that one. Until that point I can only speculate and argue my corner.

Techno = No Rules. There's your problem. It's the same with any genre that holds these principles, surely.

[Evil G]

maybe the key is for people who love techno to just plain make music, and try to free themselves of the sub-genre boundaries we impose upon ourselves...

:clap:

[MARKEG]

soory guys wasn't breaking up your convo, but i thought i better put my thoughts on the orginal topic too hehehe. :doh: :doh: :crackup:

[SlavikSvensk]

Techno = No Rules. There's your problem. It's the same with any genre that holds these principles, surely.

isn't there something along those lines in the liner notes to "techno: the new dance sound of detroit?"

hmm...well, close i guess...

Derrick May: "it's a question of respect, house still has it's heart in 70's disco, we don't have any of that respect for the past, it's strictly future music. we have a much greater aptitude for experimentation."

(of course they had plenty of respect for kraftwerk, george clinton, new order, moroder, etc.)

[tocsin]

First things first, Mark. I'm not getting worked up here at all. But, I do get tired of people equating change or anything that doesn't fit the mold "selling out." That is not something that is unique to techno and, personally, I think it's absolutely great for stifling creativity. I grow particularly alarmed as it seems, with every passing year, a style of music that I got into largely due to it's complete artistic freedom, has been co-opted by rules and interests that are increasingly anal. "Over-specialize and you breed in weakness."

As for hip-hop, in my opinion, it has never been implemented in a manner where it becomes one with the techno sound. There have been some occurrences you've mentioned that complimented each other. But, it wasn't really one cohesive unit. That being said, a 4-on-the-floor thump does not define techno either. At least, not for me. My definition for "techno" is probably a lot more liberal than most since I consider it music made with "technology." There is no reason to revisit the house/hip-hop or house/electro sound. But, what about using harder edged sounds that aren't all samples, play with time signatures more, involve some possible live instruments, and then involve a number of vocalists with a different message than what is being sold? Take into consideration as well that good musicians play off of each other and influence the over-all sound. If you get a number of people together with different influences who aren't ego-maniacs (and that can be quite dificult), the results can be great. Usually,
at that point, the biggest limitations will be what you can physically do. If you guys have the impression that I'm talking about the techno you listen to now that would get discussed in here with Nelly over the top, you got the wrong idea. Ideally, it won't sound like either. It certainly wouldn't with me. So, Mark, I think the reason nobody is trying it is because it appears that nobody is trying it. There certainly isn't any reason for hip-hop labels to take a risk with a sound that wouldn't quite fit what has been a working formula. The same would go for techno labels. But, as has been heard in some mainstream elements of hip-hop, and as some have pointed out here, hip-hop producers are looking for techno sounds now. So, for all you know, there's a new growing underground, if not already existant, with newer ideas and sounds hatching out of it that just isn't quite old enough to have been discovered by all the vultures to pick clean through exploitation. While it's just my gut speaking, I see a
possible future exploitation here which is completely removed from the bigbeat vs. hip-hop trainwreck of collaborations that were marketed here in the past. I've seen a general warming up to techno sounds from the hip-hop community again which, for awhile, appeared quite closed despite the fact that production tools and techniques were so similar. So, personally, I just think it would be crazy not to get in with some new heads and see what everyone can come up with before that sound gets snatched up in the jaws of the mainstream industry where, rather than doing your own sound, you have to play to their formula. For me, news sounds with new people iswhat makes music fun. If it's a financial failure, so what? The music that I have out on vinyl/CD is Terrorcore so I've never exactly been worried about sales. But, if it worked out, it would be something new and fun. "New and fun" is not something I've felt come out of the techno scene in my neck of the woods in a long time. Attitude seemed to take over.
A pseudo-punk attitude where, rather than rebelling, the focus seemed to be rebellion through conforming to the techno underground. It's stifling as all hell at that point. But, I'm not really going to be able to explain what I'm talking about here. If I meet the right people and it works out, I'll post MP3s here. If I'm lucky, years later I can come back here and bitch about people swapping my MP3s as keeping food off my table. :p ;)

[MARKEG]

tocsin, i'm with you. totally down with most of that reply. you've got ideas, you think you can make change and i say good luck to you. bring it on. i too have listened to some recent hip-hop and thought - my god, that's techno. perhaps a 'techno reaction to hip-hop' would be a better way to think of it all. rather than a 'hip-hop reaction to techno'??? that way you keep the ethos of techno (which is waaaaayyyyy more music orientated than hip hop these days imho). or is that then in keeping with the 'purist' attiude you speak of that is so damaging? hmmm....

ok, good shit posted on here.... gone a bit off topic eh.... so let me start a new topic...

BACK ONTO THE SUBJECT::::: Techno is too divided?? Yes Or No???

[SlavikSvensk]

BACK ONTO THE SUBJECT::::: Techno is too divided?? Yes Or No???

the acrimony on here makes me think yes...probably even more than i originally believed, and for a number of reasons:

a) divide between avant-garde-ists and those who want to see techno become more popular

b) divide between old-schoolers and new-schoolers

c) divide between purists and experimenters

d) divide among sub-genres

e) divide between detroitophiles and euro-centrics

f) divide between vinyl traditionalists and new media advocates

and, worst of all...

f) divide among those who don't listen to other people because they've already decided they don't want to listen to what those people have to say.

[Komplex]

BACK ONTO THE SUBJECT::::: Techno is too divided?? Yes Or No???

the acrimony on here makes me think yes...probably even more than i originally believed, and for a number of reasons:

a) divide between avant-garde-ists and those who want to see techno become more popular

b) divide between old-schoolers and new-schoolers

c) divide between purists and experimenters

d) divide among sub-genres

e) divide between detroitophiles and euro-centrics

f) divide between vinyl traditionalists and new media advocates

and, worst of all...

f) divide among those who don't listen to other people because they've already decided they don't want to listen to what those people have to say.

:clap:

That just about sums up this whole topic.

[tocsin]

tocsin, i'm with you. totally down with most of that reply. you've got ideas, you think you can make change and i say good luck to you. bring it on. i too have listened to some recent hip-hop and thought - my god, that's techno. perhaps a 'techno reaction to hip-hop' would be a better way to think of it all. rather than a 'hip-hop reaction to techno'??? that way you keep the ethos of techno (which is waaaaayyyyy more music orientated than hip hop these days imho). or is that then in keeping with the 'purist' attiude you speak of that is so damaging? hmmm....

Nah, it makes sense. But, ideally, I'd rather hear some shit that is neither one or the other. Through personal experience, I've just found that when you collaborate with people from different musical influences, everyone involved gets a bit more experimental with their influences in putting together the whole. Moreso than you'd get through each person working individually on a track within a particular style of music they are predisposed to. There is similar frustration within techno and hip-hop which is why I think the two could come together to make something really cool and different. Especially if you have people willing to throw everything out the window if it means a better whole project. Also, given the strong fan bases that are present in both hip-hop and techno, a quality project involving elements from the different scenes and sounds would help keep it from being a total flash in the pan and might even be healthy for nightlife. It could be a great uniter. And given how divided things are in both scenes, along with many others, that couldn't hurt. The dissent towards the bling and gangster shit is just as vocal in the hip-hop community as people here would be towards commercial bubblegum trance with overbearing themes of ecstacy.

[tocsin]

Damn the "no edit" policy. Anyways, the ethos shouldn't change at all. The ethos of underground hip-hop and underground techno have much more in common than they do differences. Coming at it from a hardcore angle, it shouldn't be too dificult to work with.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

Who let Tupac in? Seriously this has nothing to do with my disagreement with Tocsin, but do you seriously think you're revolutionary for mixing up beats of techno with mcing? I've mean using the great production of Techno or Electro with, 'appealling to millions' of rap is not something unique. I thought about this before but if you are going to do this then it won't be Techno. Everyone knows the kids talk about the beat, how rap is to dance to but most of hiphop production is dire(along with the idea of mcing). If you are fusing hip-hop it would be totally 'selling-out'. What else would you call it? Because rap is good? You're fusing mainstream with Techno. I think the though if you think that music has really something to offer, then its your opinion. So I guess you are being honest with yourself. It won't change how people look at you :evil: Then I guess you want to meet PDiddy! Hehehehe. So many people over in US think hip-hop and reggae is the only dance music it would be kind of funny when they see all these European guys with some serious bangers :clap: :clap: :clap: Teach them a lesson!

are you talking to me? pffffft

you know what? F4ck all your lil' assumptions, i never "jumped" to hip hop, i have so many projects bro, and been making hip hop since BEFORE i ever made techno. who the f4ck do you think you are?


ANYWAY



and shlong, I AINT TRYING TO COMMERCIALIZE TECHNO MUSIC, i am trying to commercialize the way in which we do business.


take the word commercial, what is the root word? commerce!


websters says:

Main Entry: 1com·merce
Pronunciation: 'kä-(")m&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin commercium, from com- + merc-, merx merchandise
: social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments.


hmmm sounds good to me!

I wasn't talking about your music numbnuts, notice the word 'great'. I was talking about a general idea you and your buddy seem to have. I don't really care what you do with your label. Noone is stopping you are they, so why do get so feathered? Is it because you're looking for a desperate acceptance? :neutral:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

I still don`t see techno moving into MTV domain is healthy.
You can increase the audience of the music, and the commerciality, without having to turn to something like MTV to do this.
Plus the techno/hip hop thing isn`t really anything new is it.
I`m sure there are other more expansive and far more original areas techno can go to.

When's the last time you heard it being done both well and consistently? I never have. I've heard a couple lucky one-off collaborations here and there and that's it. Besdies, who said anything about moving over to MTV? If you have something good, MTV will move to you whether you like it or not. If you are ever in such a situation, you can spend time fighting it until you are replaced by some flash in the pan MTV project, or you could stay true to what your love while using all available channels to reach an audience. If you think there are other more expansive and original routes that techno can move, then by all means pursue them. But, it's silly to knock something as unoriginal before you've even heard it, right? So far, all you're going on are pre-conceived notions that have been dictated to you from an industry that none of us have any connection with outside of being a solicited audience that isn't interested in buying. I'm pretty much with DeafMosaic on this one. I'd like to see techno reach
as large of a crowd as possible. I think that can be done without anyone losing their integrity. It would only help to encourage people with different outlooks and ideas to get involved in making the music as well. It's not healthy to live in isolation. It just guaruntees a lonely death.

Check what you type please

[OriginalTechnobastard]

so how we gonna paste some unity? By having better control of prevention of shite releases? Technology makes room for more releases. More release clog up the scene. Maybe this is another reason why there is such a huge division. Too many people with a reason software, and knocking up another funky loop!

[OriginalTechnobastard]

This is not a diss for all of the people using it one way or another.

[gunjack]

i would **** dat n*gga up. but seriously, you fools saying i am about cash? if i aint got no cash how the f4ck am i gonna make music? man i aint about selling out techno, i am about GETTING MINE after years of dues paying, if you smart you would be too. F4CK all this snobbery, music belongs to everybody. IF I MADE A SHITTY TRANCE RECORD JUST TO MAKE DOUGH THEN YOU FOOLS COULD SAY THAT BULLSHIT, but as it stands i MAKE THIS MUSIC FOR ME STRICTLY, but just because i try to be a bit more clever about marketing it just means that i will be in the biz alot longer than you narrow minded little kids. this shit is funny man, kids on a techno board calling me a sellout! do yo thang kids, i ain't mad at ya. but i ain't about to rot into obscurity just to be considered "purist" by some kids on the web. go listen to my records, make your own and then talk shit. dang i am wasting my time on this bbs lol!!! you all still dont try to see that i am trying to encourage you young artists to get yours!!!! you think mills is a sell out because he does his marketing tight? get with it, this is entertainment, you got to keep your eye on the prize.

Who let Tupac in? Seriously this has nothing to do with my disagreement with Tocsin, but do you seriously think you're revolutionary for mixing up beats of techno with mcing? I've mean using the great production of Techno or Electro with, 'appealling to millions' of rap is not something unique. I thought about this before but if you are going to do this then it won't be Techno. Everyone knows the kids talk about the beat, how rap is to dance to but most of hiphop production is dire(along with the idea of mcing). If you are fusing hip-hop it would be totally 'selling-out'. What else would you call it? Because rap is good? You're fusing mainstream with Techno. I think the though if you think that music has really something to offer, then its your opinion. So I guess you are being honest with yourself. It won't change how people look at you :evil: Then I guess you want to meet PDiddy! Hehehehe. So many people over in US think hip-hop and reggae is the only dance music it would be kind of funny when they see all these European guys with some serious bangers :clap: :clap: :clap: Teach them a lesson!

are you talking to me? pffffft

you know what? F4ck all your lil' assumptions, i never "jumped" to hip hop, i have so many projects bro, and been making hip hop since BEFORE i ever made techno. who the f4ck do you think you are?


ANYWAY



and shlong, I AINT TRYING TO COMMERCIALIZE TECHNO MUSIC, i am trying to commercialize the way in which we do business.


take the word commercial, what is the root word? commerce!


websters says:

Main Entry: 1com·merce
Pronunciation: 'kä-(")m&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin commercium, from com- + merc-, merx merchandise
: social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments.


hmmm sounds good to me!

I wasn't talking about your music numbnuts, notice the word 'great'. I was talking about a general idea you and your buddy seem to have. I don't really care what you do with your label. Noone is stopping you are they, so why do get so feathered? Is it because you're looking for a desperate acceptance? :neutral:


dude, you are such an idiot.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

dude you're totally like not!

[gunjack]

bro, what the f4ck gives you the right to shoot off your mouth like you do? how many records in your discography? maybe humble yourself a bit because you are acting like an idiot. opinions are one thing, but you seem hell bent on being contrary for the sake of being contrary. that post obviously seemed like it was for me, you quote me, make some smart ass remarks and assume i will know your talking bout someone else.... and i am the idiot? go figure. MARK EG: an ignore button might be the way to go with this "original techno BASTARD"

[OriginalTechnobastard]

bro, what the f4ck gives you the right to shoot off your mouth like you do? how many records in your discography? maybe humble yourself a bit because you are acting like an idiot. opinions are one thing, but you seem hell bent on being contrary for the sake of being contrary. that post obviously seemed like it was for me, you quote me, make some smart ass remarks and assume i will know your talking bout someone else.... and i am the idiot? go figure. MARK EG: an ignore button might be the way to go with this "original techno BASTARD"

I don't claim to be an artist. So there goes your first sentence. Just because you release a tune don't mean you know a good one. I'm not acting contrary for the sake of being difficult, I even mentioned this in the beginning. I just have a different opinion than yours. Learn to live with it. I've mean I can't state what I feel about your public post? Very liberal of you :clap:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Do whateverthefukkulike as I said before. Its not something I agree with but then there might be people who do. If you think its honest than there is no point of arguing with me is there?

[dirty_bass]

Ok lets calm this down.
Healthy debate is just that.
Healthy.
Lets not get into personal arguments.

Gunny, chill man, we got your back. Not everyone is gonna roll on their back and agree with all you do, but at least you are thinking and trying to do something beyond making a few tunes, and you`ve done your time, so I think most of us know your not some fly by night in it for the cash only.

OriginalTechnobastard, dude, your pragmatism is cool, as it keeps everyone on their toes, but sometimes you bite down like a pit bull, and it gets a bit too personal. So please man, I think you do make a valuable contribution here, just try to step back a little before you rush in for the kill.

[gunjack]

yo i dont expect anyone to roll over and agree with me, but this fool makes all kindsa cheap personal shots and i tell you what: in my hood, that dog dont hunt.

[Adverse]

I still don`t see techno moving into MTV domain is healthy.

like it's even ****ing possible.

[gunjack]

hey verse where the f4ck were you from 92 - 96 when the whole "rave" thing hit mtv? i am not saying it was good but do you remember a little electronic show on mtv called AMP?????? i have seen more jeff mills and dj hell videos etc. on mtv than i have on viva!

[OriginalTechnobastard]

If only I didn't have two warnings I could've had fun and answered your reply.

[dan the acid man]

so how we gonna paste some unity? By having better control of prevention of shite releases? Technology makes room for more releases. More release clog up the scene. Maybe this is another reason why there is such a huge division. Too many people with a reason software, and knocking up another funky loop!

i have to agree on this one, i wish people would have more self quality control.

i listen to some records and think, if i'd made that, there's no way i'd be releasing it.
i know its easy to get wrapped up in a new tune your writing, but when you listen back to a track a week or two later, you can usually tell if its any good or not

[The Divide]

Techno making MTV. hmmm

That would only work if it had a formula that would appeal to the general public. In other words cheesy catchy riffs and what not. Reminds me of what happened to trance when some bright spark realised what would happen when you mix a euphoric trance melody to female house vocalist. Right nail in the coffin for underground hard trance that was

I think MTV would only pay interest techno if it could make some $ out of it. The techno rap crossover thing seems like its already been happening for years. If an artist wants do push techno closer to rap then fine. It would work, wouldnt make a difference to my life because I dont watch MTV

[The Divide]

Re most divided scene in the world...

Maybe it is because of all the different sounds within this genre, but does it matter?

Some people like cheese, some like excersize, some people like sports

Everyone has their own tastes and some people are passionate about them. Seems good to me that people know what they like.

We're not hippies anymore :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

maybe techno is like punk rock in that its days of having a massive influence on all music are over, but it will continue on, growing steadily less popular and more underground year after year...

is that a bad thing? a good thing? both? neither?

the way i see it, though, techno is going to continue to subdivide and subdivide...eventually we'll see sections in stores (or more accurately, on juno) with titles like "hard experimental swedo-detroitcore acid techno."

[dirty_bass]

I think it will be the opposite.
With decreasing sales, everything will just get lumped togather in the "techno" section

Which is a good thing in a way.

There`s this fantastic second hand record shop in london I go to, and it`s techno section is just this huge mess of electronica.

I love it.

I just dig in sometimes and buy loads of cheap vinyl for like, 50p and a quid, that I have never heard of, and I get some great stuff.

[SlavikSvensk]

maybe you are right...either way, i'd love to browse that store as well. ;)

[tocsin]

Techno making MTV. hmmm

That would only work if it had a formula that would appeal to the general public. In other words cheesy catchy riffs and what not. Reminds me of what happened to trance when some bright spark realised what would happen when you mix a euphoric trance melody to female house vocalist. Right nail in the coffin for underground hard trance that was

I think MTV would only pay interest techno if it could make some $ out of it. The techno rap crossover thing seems like its already been happening for years. If an artist wants do push techno closer to rap then fine. It would work, wouldnt make a difference to my life because I dont watch MTV

Never caught the show much as I didn't have cable TV at the time. But, at least in the states, it seemed to play stuff like Underworld, Future Sound of London, Orbital, etc. It was also responsible for some slightly younger kids I know now getting into hard techno. But, the show did eventually get panned. I don't know how much of a bad influence MTV can be said to have had on techno in the US. If anything, it seems like those who got into it through MTV exposure and stuck with it dug deeper to find the sounds that weren't played on the air.

[holotropik]

Ahhh.....growing pains of a pubescent little Techno genre.

She'll be right mate ;) just do your thing and spread the word, reach as many people as possible in any way you can. You peeps should think yourselves lucky you HAVE a market like Europe/UK. Down here in OZ we got nuthin'......

But we still try and we come up with all sorts of ingenious methods - but its mostly for the love of it. No record company wants to even look past POP music down here and many great musicians starve to death or get a day job (which then means less music and more pop).

My 2cents would be to promote the Live techno artists more because DJs are losing ground because many people dont like them coz a majority of them do not much - thats the sentiment here in Australia anyway. I have spoken to alot of people in my quest to try to reach new markets for Techno. Most people still think techno is all about DJs and they dont like them coz they dont "play" anything. When they see a live techno artist they are hooked straight away. I have had many conversations with respected Rock musicians who respect the Live techno artist (even when they dont like techno). We regularly get more and more Rock musicians to our gigs now coz they love to watch us play those big chunky beats.......?

food for thought.

[gunjack]

If only I didn't have two warnings I could've had fun and answered your reply.


http://img144.exs.cx/img144/2066/pwned11sq.png

[OriginalTechnobastard]

If only I didn't have two warnings I could've had fun and answered your reply.


http://img144.exs.cx/img144/2066/pwned11sq.png

there goes your spare time then?

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Oh well, anything that keeps you away from the studio :clap:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Sorry to sway from the topic everyone. Daf u can do this type of stuff in General and dirtybass you can delete unconstructive comments. Daf you are an artist(may I remind u, I've guess you need reminding) so to not upset your fans and not get away from the spirit of this forum I won't nick-nack with you.


Going back to the subject do whateverthefukkulike and stop being so big-headed to think that the world is against you!

[gunjack]

man lighten up that m.j. tied up kid is funny. :roll:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

funny because thats what I think you need to do(not tie the kid up. that kind of thing is the worse thing u can do so your studio comes second ;) )

So as I understand that Insane Clown Posse auditon didn't go to well :neutral: :eh: :lol: ?

[gunjack]

studio comes second ;) )


pffft.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

The last half of the contents in this topic, support the topic title : (

[tocsin]

Will you please take this private already? It's beyond stale. Especially when unknown personal grudges seem to be responsible for the majority of this crap.