Hip-Hop + Techno

[MARKEG]

Some GREAT stuff being talked about in the 'Most Divided Scene In The World' Topic. Please read that and then post your thought related to the Hip Hop thing in here :)

The last reply from Tocsin::: >>>

As for hip-hop, in my opinion, it has never been implemented in a manner where it becomes one with the techno sound. There have been some occurrences you've mentioned that complimented each other. But, it wasn't really one cohesive unit. That being said, a 4-on-the-floor thump does not define techno either. At least, not for me. My definition for "techno" is probably a lot more liberal than most since I consider it music made with "technology." There is no reason to revisit the house/hip-hop or house/electro sound. But, what about using harder edged sounds that aren't all samples, play with time signatures more, involve some possible live instruments, and then involve a number of vocalists with a different message than what is being sold? Take into consideration as well that good musicians play off of each other and influence the over-all sound. If you get a number of people together with different influences who aren't ego-maniacs (and that can be quite dificult), the results can be great. Usually,
at that point, the biggest limitations will be what you can physically do. If you guys have the impression that I'm talking about the techno you listen to now that would get discussed in here with Nelly over the top, you got the wrong idea. Ideally, it won't sound like either. It certainly wouldn't with me. So, Mark, I think the reason nobody is trying it is because it appears that nobody is trying it. There certainly isn't any reason for hip-hop labels to take a risk with a sound that wouldn't quite fit what has been a working formula. The same would go for techno labels. But, as has been heard in some mainstream elements of hip-hop, and as some have pointed out here, hip-hop producers are looking for techno sounds now. So, for all you know, there's a new growing underground, if not already existant, with newer ideas and sounds hatching out of it that just isn't quite old enough to have been discovered by all the vultures to pick clean through exploitation. While it's just my gut speaking, I see a
possible future exploitation here which is completely removed from the bigbeat vs. hip-hop trainwreck of collaborations that were marketed here in the past. I've seen a general warming up to techno sounds from the hip-hop community again which, for awhile, appeared quite closed despite the fact that production tools and techniques were so similar. So, personally, I just think it would be crazy not to get in with some new heads and see what everyone can come up with before that sound gets snatched up in the jaws of the mainstream industry where, rather than doing your own sound, you have to play to their formula. For me, news sounds with new people iswhat makes music fun. If it's a financial failure, so what? The music that I have out on vinyl/CD is Terrorcore so I've never exactly been worried about sales. But, if it worked out, it would be something new and fun. "New and fun" is not something I've felt come out of the techno scene in my neck of the woods in a long time. Attitude seemed to take over.
A pseudo-punk attitude where, rather than rebelling, the focus seemed to be rebellion through conforming to the techno underground. It's stifling as all hell at that point. But, I'm not really going to be able to explain what I'm talking about here. If I meet the right people and it works out, I'll post MP3s here. If I'm lucky, years later I can come back here and bitch about people swapping my MP3s as keeping food off my table. :p

[dirty_bass]

Well, true techno is diverse in influence, so in terms of absorbing the sounds of new hip hop, it should already be happening.
So the only other additive to the whole scenario, is MCing over techno.
And I`ve had enough of that already.
There`s loads of techno with rapping on it and it just sounds really cliche today.
I think good and talented collaborations, and new ideas can be born in techno, without the need to plunder the current "hot music" of popular media.
Lets make our own ideas, not sidle up and leech off another.

[SlavikSvensk]

i don't really get into lyrics, which is one reason techno suits me so well. the way i see it, in good hip-hop, the voice acts as a rhythmic instrument, so maybe some hip-hop vocals would suit techno well, but i'm loathe to see techno turn into a style of music where you are "told" what the song is about rather than "shown" it.

still...as i said in the other thread, i'm open to it if it's done tastefully. i just hope it would stay abstract and not too literal...

[SlavikSvensk]

hmm...that post doesn't seem to fit how i feel...

...let me add...i'd like to see techno draw on more diverse sources for inspiration and sounds, of which hip-hop COULD be one...IF done tastefully and not in a super-cheesy "let's sell the kids what the charts say they want" kind of way.

[detfella]

i am missing something isn't hip hop + techno going back to electro sound? which is no bad thing :)

[The Overfiend]

man listen the first time i heard a timba land beat i thought he was into jungle. ive heard a lot of techno esque sounds in hip hop recently and its dope. i hope its a progression as for hip hop lessons in techno an ear for sampling will always define a dude for having that diff sound b.

[Komplex]

There are two definate outcomes.

A: Some people will like it
B: Some people wil hate it

So if its been eating away at you, just go on and do it. Who cares what anyone thinks...

[tocsin]

Well, true techno is diverse in influence, so in terms of absorbing the sounds of new hip hop, it should already be happening.
So the only other additive to the whole scenario, is MCing over techno.
And I`ve had enough of that already.
There`s loads of techno with rapping on it and it just sounds really cliche today.
I think good and talented collaborations, and new ideas can be born in techno, without the need to plunder the current "hot music" of popular media.
Lets make our own ideas, not sidle up and leech off another.

****. Well, I missed this thread before responding in the other. Ideally, at least for what I'd like to do, I wouldn't want it to sound like a song where someone would say "this is a techno track with an MC." It's still separate at that point which goes to what I mentioned in the other thread: elements complimenting each other rather than being a whole equation. The benefit that could be achieved, if it was quality work, would be in the scenes complimenting each other, especially for the disillusioned. With the right artists who are willing to let go, it wouldn't be leeching off each other. It would be coming up with something unique. hrough personal experience, I've just found that when you work with people all into one particular style, you get a finished whole that sounds like that particular style. I'm not saying that's bad. But, when you work with people into completely different styles, so long as ego doesn't interfere with the overall whole, the finished product can be really good and very unexpected in sound simply because you have peope with different perspectives working on a whole. In my backyard, I don't think marketing is the general problem. Plenty of young and old around NYC know techno exists. I think the problem is more the perception that the music all sounds the same and is kinda flat. Same goes with mainstream hip-hop. Do something new which, no matter how much you may think it's selling out, is likely to have a bit more appeal to the masses, you open the door for more people to discover the underground sounds without it feeling forced. And if it works moderately well at all, that's where a new approach to marketting might be worth pursuing. I've never really been concerned with people who would think I'm selling out since there isn't a single track I've ever written that I didn't enjoy writing at the time and wasn't reflecting something that I was feeling. And I just see an opportunity here for a number of different artists to really break out of their shells and experiment in a way that will have an overall finished project that doesn't sound experimental.

[RDR]

Having read all that is said here i'd like to add my 2p worth. I fully believe that the conglomeration of hip-hop and techno is worth doing and can provide a sound that stimulates both sides of the musical brain.

I think the problem comes for most people when both are added together and given enough room to manouvere within their respective genre's techno is a powerful genre that DEMANDS space to perform it's function, likewise Hip-Hop/RAP also demands exactly that same.

I have had a go at creating a track that covers both bases, i know its a shameless plug, but iot really do think its an illustration of this argument. You may like the track, you may not.

www.theinspectors.co.uk then go to the player at the top and select the track "No threat" this is me vs jay-z. its more of a bootleg than owt really, but i think it works.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Samples is not exactly hip hop and techno mixed. Its use of sound in techno just like any other samples. I don't mind that. Suck da mc by Vitalferox was big and nasty. But if you look the Denza track its Wu Tang mixed with bass heavy dark keys Techno. Only really other options are cut and paste, cut and paste, or live mcing over it. I hate mcing, so I think it would ruin a good Techno song(Not that I've think you could produce any tocsin :lol: ) Hehehe

[gunjack]

the gunjack project is VERY hip hop. the production techniques and genral feeling come from my hip hop background. i think ppl fail to realize just how closely related these two music forms actually, already are! :eh:

[killarava2day]

That's one thing that I enjoy about techno...not being preached to, not hearing about someone's broken heart, a love they've never known, no money no hope...you can make up your own lyrics, if you want, to your fav track in your head.

[detfella]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopped_and_screwed

what about it we slow techno down and screw it up

[gunjack]

RIP dj SCREW.

[tocsin]

(Not that I've think you could produce any tocsin lol )

Dude, seriously, if you are so itching to just pass petty insults my way based on things you haven't even experienced, do it in a PM. Or, is doing it in a public forum, rather than a PM, your way of pretending to be bold?

[The Divide]

Well, true techno is diverse in influence, so in terms of absorbing the sounds of new hip hop, it should already be happening.
So the only other additive to the whole scenario, is MCing over techno.
And I`ve had enough of that already.
There`s loads of techno with rapping on it and it just sounds really cliche today.
I think good and talented collaborations, and new ideas can be born in techno, without the need to plunder the current "hot music" of popular media.
Lets make our own ideas, not sidle up and leech off another.

I agree with you

If the hip hot guys like our sounds then great let them use it for ideas, doesn’t mean we should start doing the same from them.

Unless this is a more personal pursuit

Which if thats the case then get on with it :lol:

[davethedrummer]

guys
why , when someone mentions hip hop , does everyone just start going on about mc'ing over techno ?
there is a lot more to the production sound of hip hop than just rap.
hip hop producers have been taking influences from techno for a while now
and you can hear it in the bassline of " milkshake " , most of missy elliots
" this is not a test " lp , much of dre's recent work , the neptunes and much more underground hip hop that i only ever hear on the radio.
distorted clanks , buzzing basslines , echo fx and minimalism , all these things are turning up in hip hop these days , however all trhese things are also turning up in house music and psy trance and breakbeat.
one thing about techno will always be true , the people who make it really love it and do it because of that , and in that way mostly techno remains in front , because the producers are just not scared to experiment
i like hip hop influences in techno and i like to hear the techno influences in hip hop.
is it the start of something big?
no , i don't think so , but it's good and i'm enjoying it so what the hell?

[gumpy green]

seb marx did a couple of good things with hiphop vocals over his live set at jakN last month.

used a krsone rap/accapella over a techno track and also beasty boys "intergalactic" vocals......nice stuff i must say and not too over the top, i thought it worked well.

[audioinjection]

time to make a "drop it like its hot" techno remix :lol:

[davethedrummer]

time to make a "drop it like its hot" techno remix :lol:

no no no
that's exactly what i'm not talking about :roll:

[tocsin]

Hehe. "Drop it like it's Squat." ;) But, nah, not what I was getting at either. I was kinda saying more on the lines of what Dave was mentioning, only I'm more curious to hear what would come about if different artists from techno and hip-hop got together in the studio and ****ed around. So, it would be less of a hip-artist looking for techno sounds or vice versa and, rather, kind of a bastard child of each.

[audioinjection]

time to make a "drop it like its hot" techno remix :lol:

no no no
that's exactly what i'm not talking about :roll:

heeh it was a joke :doh:

[davethedrummer]

time to make a "drop it like its hot" techno remix :lol:

no no no
that's exactly what i'm not talking about :roll:

heeh it was a joke :doh:

oh....sorry...must've had a sense of humour bypass :oops:

[viagratek]

jungle

[dirty_bass]

seb marx did a couple of good things with hiphop vocals over his live set at jakN last month.

used a krsone rap/accapella over a techno track and also beasty boys "intergalactic" vocals......nice stuff i must say and not too over the top, i thought it worked well.

Wait till you hear Globe Warmer 2
We`re finishing the mastering this week for imminent pressing.
Sebs done some more hybrid madness again.

[SlavikSvensk]

and you can hear it in the bassline of " milkshake " , most of missy elliots
" this is not a test " lp

good point. missy elliot's productions are, often, really impressive. on a more lowbrow tip, you hear techno influences in some southern rap (e.g. crime mobb). i think it filters to them via missy and timbaland...i don't think lil jon is a big plastikman fan!

[The Overfiend]

the gunjack project is VERY hip hop. the production techniques and genral feeling come from my hip hop background. i think ppl fail to realize just how closely related these two music forms actually, already are! :eh:

Precisely.

[davethedrummer]

the gunjack project is VERY hip hop. the production techniques and genral feeling come from my hip hop background. i think ppl fail to realize just how closely related these two music forms actually, already are! :eh:

Precisely.

true true
and also i bet if you did play those guys something like plastikman they'd get right into it.

[davethedrummer]

the gunjack project is VERY hip hop. the production techniques and genral feeling come from my hip hop background. i think ppl fail to realize just how closely related these two music forms actually, already are! :eh:

Precisely.

true true
and also i bet if you did play those guys something like plastikman they'd get right into it.

[audioinjection]

i tend to think most hip hop heads hate electronic music

well its like that here anyway

funny cause 99% of hip hop is electronic haha

[SlavikSvensk]

the gunjack project is VERY hip hop. the production techniques and genral feeling come from my hip hop background. i think ppl fail to realize just how closely related these two music forms actually, already are! :eh:

Precisely.

true true
and also i bet if you did play those guys something like plastikman they'd get right into it.

hmm...is acid rap forthcoming?? :lol:

speaking of techno-hop-hop connections...a friend of mine once found a record from 1989 at a store in detroit by a female rapper named smiley. the album was called something stupid like "smiley but not friendly." and you know who was credited as the producer? jeff mills!

besides...when juan atkins released "cosmic cars," it was listened to by b-boys in the bronx.

[The Overfiend]

i find it funny how most hip hop heads even african americans call techno that white boy shit when the people who bought it about are well. we all know. its collective ignorance

[dirty_bass]

I will say a lot of the really cool Hip Hop I like, beats techno for it`s beat construction.
The beats in some hip hop are less obvious, but still have tons of power in them.
I think techno could definitely do with this influence.

[SlavikSvensk]

i find it funny how most hip hop heads even african americans call techno that white boy shit when the people who bought it about are well. we all know. its collective ignorance

this is off the topic, yes, but it's astounding to me how few people know that techno is, originally, african american music. it's universal music now, but its black roots have not disappeared...

[dirty_bass]

It`s also heavily influenced by the avante garde, like craftwork, and the early industrial experimentalists. It`s not all african at it`s root.

[The Overfiend]

i agree with both of you, i was just pointing out as some already have as to the reason why some hip hop heads do not listen to techno, quote aesop rock in a dvd i saw the other day saying what music do white people have to be proud of country and techno and for that he would like to hang his head in shame...............little did he friggin know. and no im not black so its no pride issue ok.

[SlavikSvensk]

It`s also heavily influenced by the avante garde, like craftwork, and the early industrial experimentalists. It`s not all african at it`s root.

no, no...i didn't mean that the roots of techno were african american, but that techno-at-its-root was african american. as in, the music was made originally by african americans...and they, of course, listened primarily (but not exclusively) to european dance and electronic music. that's the rare genius of it...and early chicago house as well. it was cross-cultural...

[viagratek]

[quote="SummerOfSamwhat music do white people have to be proud of country and techno and for that he would like to hang his head in shame...............little did he friggin know. and no im not black so its no pride issue ok.[/quote]



oh man that has to be the stupidest ****ing thing ive heard in awhile. i just lost respect for aesAp now.....well not like i really got into them from the beginning

[gumpy green]

Wait till you hear Globe Warmer 2
We`re finishing the mastering this week for imminent pressing.
Sebs done some more hybrid madness again.

ears to the ground waiting...

just found his recording(lost it in my house).....listened to it again last night...sweet.

BTW- thanks for hookin us up with him.

[dirty_bass]

Wait till you hear Globe Warmer 2
We`re finishing the mastering this week for imminent pressing.
Sebs done some more hybrid madness again.

ears to the ground waiting...

just found his recording(lost it in my house).....listened to it again last night...sweet.

BTW- thanks for hookin us up with him.

No probs mate.
For all our silly banter on here, I think we`ve got pretty much the same attitude, and neither of us is half as gobby as we are on here.
I`ll help you boys out any time.

[holotropik]

anyone seen that movie "Scratch"....?

if not you should coz it will explain some important points that are relevant to Techno at the moment.

dont forget....people buy a personality - not music.

[gumpy green]

No probs mate.
For all our silly banter on here, I think we`ve got pretty much the same attitude, and neither of us is half as gobby as we are on here.
I`ll help you boys out any time.

Aye defo mate....... its good to have these disscussion anyway..altho sumtimes we disagree i find it good to hear others opinions....

and same back at ya- ill help you out if ever i can.

G

and yes ive saw scrath, one of the best documentarys ive ever saw.....brillient piece of work.