To the collective artists known as Skulltunes :

[Underground Alliance]

We realize the thread concerning your label does not include at any point an admission of your wrong doing nor did you care to apologize to the board members who you've ripped off. We find this behavior offensive deplorable and beyond everything disrespectful. We demand a public apology to board member sven wittekind.

[gunjack]

good point, and to add, this is no longer about sven or the other folks who have been ripped off, this is about the principle of the thing. YOU FOLKS ARE TRYING TO **** HARDWORKING ARTISTS. if we, as a community of artists, lose our perspective of what is and isn't acceptable conduct in this industry, then we might as well go and make some eurobeat..... then maybe at least we could make alot of cash and be rock stars.


YOU PPL GOT CAUGHT cheating red handed. the very LEAST you could do would be to take responsibility for your own actions. do you even have enough balls to do that?!

[MARKEG]

mmm... i've slept on this after the statement by greg silver and deaf has got a point. i know the fight seems to be over between skulltunes and sven (phew!!!!) but for the sake of many board members who care strongly about this and see it as a huge moral issue, i do think a discussion of the samples that seem to have been used and why is essential and would speak absolute volumes here. to be honest, it's the original reason why i wanted you guys to reply. let's sort this out and we all can finally get this issue cleaned up.

mike - did you sample loops that seem to be taken from over138 and psycho shoxx highball01? And also a loop from Compound 14? And a vocal directly from Patrick Skoog's Submissions 3 (it's exactly the same vocal). And a Speedy J loop. What's the explaination for each of these?

greg - deja vu 04 by boris s + greg silver seems to have a loop taken from over138 sven wittekind - zombie hohcaust. How do you explain this?

if you do sample directly from other people's records, why? do you see anything wrong with it?

guys you have to clear this up. i've just checked and i've already got 8 pm's in my inbox regarding this issue and i think people really want to know the answers to this. great, the fighting is over, but let's get back to the original and most important issue.

and hey ppl. let's try to have a discussion here - not a fight eh?

[gunjack]

yeah man, just because everybody was persuaded to shut up about this issue doesnt mean it has gone away.....

also my brother cris varela appears to have been the victim of your theft on skt 003.... i will see him on friday for dinner before liquid room and ask him what he feels.

[MikeDust]

Hello Mark and all the others!

No Mark, i did not sample anything from Wittekind, nor did i sample from Compound or Skoog. But i did sample from Speedy J's "Loudboxer" Locked-Grooves Vinyl. Why i did this? It sounded gr8 together with my stuff in the track. So i did use a Sample. Btw: Speedy has got no Problem with it, he allowed it. It was written on his Record. If you use any Sample, please be so nice and send me one Record. I sent him one, and i never heard of him. All the other Loops were taken directly from one of my ton's of Sample CD's or have been ****in created by myself!

I only release Stuff as Mike Dust on Skull Tunes, i have nothen to do with all the other Projects.

Okay, this was my Statement. I hope it cleares up sumpin' ?

BTW: Get the following Sample CD's - XXLarge No Kick Vol. 1 & 2 - There are only Percussion-Drum-Grooves w/o kicks. Many Producers use it, so u can't always say this loop or that loop was stolen from this or that record. Ya understand what i'm trying to say?

Mike

[gunjack]

mike - did you sample loops that seem to be taken from over138 and psycho shoxx highball01? And also a loop from Compound 14? And a vocal directly from Patrick Skoog's Submissions 3 (it's exactly the same vocal). What's the explaination for each of these?

[gunjack]

so shall we ask:


@pat skoog: where does the vocal on submissions 003 originate? sample cd?

@Glenn Wilson: did you use these same sample cds on the record in question or have you been jacked?


still waiting to hear about varela and skt003.

[MikeDust]

Please Explain which Vocal you mean????

Here are the Vocals i used in MY RECORDS on SKT

SKT 001 - Bass
Vocal "Bass" from Fruity Loops

SKT 004 - Sawtooth Massacre
-Scratching in Sawtooth Massacre taken from Master Bits "Vinyl Attack"
-The short Screaming taken from "TechnoTranceEssentials" by Ueberschall
-Vocal "This is our Future" taken from Best Service "Vocal Pearls"
-Vocal on the B2 taken from Vocal Pearls too

Go to a Music Store near you, listen to the Sample CD there, if you won't believe me, i'm honest.

Mike

[gunjack]

so are the minutes you save by using pre-fab loops worth the hours of explaining after the fact? :oops:

[Buttman]

Is it just me who finds it boring to make music with ready made samples?
I see nothing wrong in sampling.. I just can not see why anyone would like to work with it.

[MARKEG]

Deaf - I have these CD's and Mike is spot on with what he's said and where his samples have come from. Please calm down mate. He's obviously trying to be as open as possible and you're being really quick to try to knock him down.

At the end of the day alot of people are using sample CD's at the moment. Chrissi and I use them. But don't use them 'raw'. We'll mangle them slightly before adding them to our 'library' of loops. I think if you don't do this, things can slip though and you can be left with a situation like this where people accuse you of stealing.

I think this is proving that as artists who really care about the music we have to look deeper. We have to search harder than ever before. This issue has brought up the subject of using sample CD's within techno in a negative light - scary seeing as though 90% of hard techno aritsts use them (I think alot of you don't actually realise how many artists work like this now).

Thanks Mike for what you've said. You didn't have to say it and I'm really pleased you've come into our community and laid your cards directly on the table. Deaf - find out about your bro's loops and let's clear this up with Mike once and for all.

[MikeDust]

well def, i buy the sample cd's for big money to use them in productions, not to abuse them as table mat for my coffee cup :wink:

btw: varela uses the loops from techno trance essentials too :o

hell, there are even the loops from the famous "trommelmaschine" and "sunglasses at night" liebing remix on that sampling cd... i know what would happen if i would use them in a production... all people where yellin' at me "loopstealer" and so on... even if they are free for licence :wink:

Mike

[gunjack]

hmmm. i appreciate the fact that mike has explained his source material on such a public forum......

this whole thing stinks though. i dunno, it just smells baaaad.


DJ Amok is one of our artists, i know he has a temper and flies off the handle a bit quick, but he is part of our crew, so you boys lay off him alright? i have heard alot of gossip coming back round about all of this from MANY sources and i would not like to hear any more. i will tell him to cool out so you boys do the same for now ok?


gunjack

[death on a stick]

So none of the artists in question can be bothered to make their own music without Ikea style ready made parts? I think all sides should be a bit embarrassed about this one, if that's the case. If the samples in question came from a sample CD, did it not occur to the people accusing others of plagiarism that they could have come from the same source.

IF this is the case, you should maybe try making something original for a change. I'm all for sampling as I said in another thread, I've sampled others and been sampled myself, but to just stick a few ready made loops over a kick is just damned lazy - and from the clips I downloaded last night, result in very poor quality music that would be better left in the bedroom for listening to when you get home from the pub. Why waste vinyl on that stuff?

[boris s]

that's right mike!

i use the same sample cd. we have round about 60 gig's of samples in our studio. and about over 90 sample cds! vocal pearls, dance mega drums, techno trance essentials (which contains lots of well known samples!! eg. used by azzido da bass, emanuel top and so on...)

the loops in my productions are definitely not ripped from any record!!

i use most one cool loop, and the rest of percussions i do myself and mangle it with lots of fx's etc.

boris

[MARKEG]

boris/mike, i think that's the problem. you're using 'one cool loop'. and you're making that loop very, very prominant in your mix. problem is - other artists are doing the same. which leads to people thinking it's nicked. it seems like you've stolen it, when in fact you haven't - you've just paid damn good money for a sample cd that some other artist has paid damn good money for too.

look. i'm not a bloody expert at this techno making business but i have been doing it for years and i have been through these exact problem myself. it just means working that little bit harder to source/categorise your loops. sure use a sample cd, but find a plug in or plugin chain that then becomes 'your sound' to stick over the top of the loops. do this in a prog like acid - then export each loop as a seperate file and put into organised folders. then only use these loops! that way you'll NEVER have the same loop as someone else on your tracks.

alternatively use a program like recycle to chop them up a bit.

just a little more time and effort will really mean issues like this dont arise again.

wow.. it seems like we're actually getting somewhere useful now dont you think!?!!

[boris s]

yes mark... very usefull! :D

recycle i got 4 weeks ago... from this time on every loop is use is cutted by recycle and put together in another order... so, i hope no one thinks that i steal loops again... *g* and plugins to make the loops become "my sound" i have used in my new productions too. for example the skull tunes 6. the new skull tunes 9 and 10. logic has damn good plugins to do that... :twisted:

boris

ps.: sorry for my bad english... *g*

[death on a stick]

I don't get it...why not just make your own music??? Why buy sample CDs in order to avoid having to do anyhting original? It's so lazy!!! And it comes out through the music too, can't you hear how cheap it sounds?? Are you afraid that if you tried to actually work at music you'll find you have no talent for it? Hard techno, even loopy hard techno, doesn't have to be rubbish, it can be very good indeed, but from the sounds of it most of the artists here would prefer to have someone else make their music for them. I can't believe people are actually going to all the effort of releasing records with this stuff on it, how can you live with yourselves? Don't you feel cheap?

[gunjack]

that post should be bronzed.

[MARKEG]

not at all. there's no way in this world you going to sit and tell me that working with sample cd's and loops is cheap. if done the right way, it is just a creative as midi. i strongly believe this. in fact i personally often find it more creative and productive.

i spend day after day preparing loops - mashing up different loops into different folders. categorising. eqing. then using them in tracks.

it's a different way of working but to me it's the same as taking a sine wave in midi (that someone else has provided for you) and making your own sound out of it. this way you take a loop from a sampled cd, from rebirth, from anything - and lovingly craft it beyond all recognition into your own loop.

the only difference is your track start to sound more full because there's more going on. this is the key to our sound and most of the hard techno producers out there.

fair enough, you work with midi. do things your own way. but don't tell me that i'm not creative because i'm doing things to a different way that the 'standard' way of making music.

there's a line here. just the same as there's a line with using presets on keyboard and making your own sounds. as long as you know what line is, there's nothing wrong with using loops.

ok rant over..

(sorry death :oops: )

[boris s]

you don't understand what i mean...

i do my own music! i am not one from those who cuts finished loops together, a kick over that and thats it. NO!

i use only a loop to put it under my track that it sounds "full", you know?

the percussions, leads, rythms and so on i do myself! mike can confirm it because we produce many things together.

do you think glenn wilson is cheap because he uses loops and sample cds?!? i don't. the result is important!

boris

[eyes without a face]

this is a very good idea and congrats to mark for asking the skulltunes posse to explain the loops. seems it was all a misunderstanding hey?!!

can anyone help me on where to get these sample CD's?

[MARKEG]

yeah sure. but for gods sake please do what we're saying here and change them into your own.. hehe..

time and space is a good place to start

ps we've been discussing this way of working over in the production forum for the last 6 months at length - where the hell have you bin m8?!

[gunjack]

yeah. BE CREATIVE and dont use loops the exact same way they are provided. 8)

[MARKEG]

yeah that surely is the moral of this little story.

[death on a stick]

well Mark, maybe I'm overestimating people then. You mean people spend ages and ages on processing loops, but still manage to make tracks that sound like thousands of others? Now that is really lame!! I thought it was knocked up in no time, you're telling me people actually have to work at sounding unoriginal??? That it requires effort to put together the nth track of percussive sound + kick + hi-hat ==> filter up ==> ride in ==> ride out ==> breakdown, bla bla bla. Those clips that deafmosaic linked to were, to put it nicely, not worth making any fuss about, let alone threats of violence, boycotts or that sort of thing. It's just formulaic fodder.

I've already said I've nothing against sampling. Also I've not heard your stuff, or this Sven fella in any fullness, but from what I've heard of the processes involved it's no wonder people are sounding the same. It's dance music by numbers (I won't say techno as it isn't techno as far as I'm concerned - see my post on the old primate (http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1570&postdays=0&postorder=asc&star t=30&sid=d46e30ac095b15b14f02d674c0a26180) thread for clarification), however long you spend altering a sample. Samples can be used without any processing and editing and still be made to sound original and interesting.

This may seem a militant stance, but take it as an indication of my dislike for lazy sounding music. It's like a disease, and the more people that do it, the harder it will be to find the good flesh in amongst the tumours.

[MARKEG]

well we have to agree to disagree. i truly believe chrissi and i make music that sounds unique and exciting and different. sven does the same. i don't think he uses loops at all though actually. sure it's in that 'dancefloor' category so is probably what you call 'techno by numbers' but this is what i love making. love listening to and i certainly dont copy anyone. i just make music that makes me dance, scrunch my face up and have a near heart attack and do it in a way that involves mangling up loops. you don't. fair enough. there is no arguement here. it's a difference in taste that your using as the basis to your argument here....

'Samples can be used without any processing and editing and still be made to sound original and interesting.' - ermmm....how do you do that exactly without sound like you've nicked the sample?

[miromiric.]

boris, you say you use loops to make your tracks "full".
i ask you this - why do you make music?
do you make it to sound "full" or you make it cause u have it inside?
producing the sound is something most beautiful in this crazy world, you just have to let out what u have in your hear and mind - this is art, my friend, art of transforming an abstract or concrete idea into sound, in this case. and this idea has to be yours only, genuine. every sound should have it`s meaning, all constructing a solidification of your philosophy. things aren`t always on consciousness level, but that doesn`t matter. what matter is that you are honest to yourself.

one question for all of you here - if you could never achieve to make your sound "full" without using loops, would you start using them and, hence, start releasing records? :arrow:

[Greg Silver]

sorry, i´m a little bit late in this discussion, but i got an appointment.

first of all something to deafmosaic:
in a german board, boris and me DID apologize, we never used CONSCIOUSLY a loop, which has already been used in another record. the loops we were blamed for are from a record we have never possessed. i promise. there was a real loop-rip of one of sven´s records from another artist (3 loops in one track!!!) also and sven huddled it together. now sven and we are friends again,we phoned about 1hr and all the differences are cleared.
another thing is dj amok. and it isn´t of interest for me, if he is an artist from you, too. he is only a friend of sven, not directly affected in any way and called me and boris "motherf...", "dick suckers" and lots more and spread this over the boards. sorry, this is definitely NOT objective and we pull our consequences out of that.
i´m not angry about any of your statements, but please do a difference between objective discussions and insults. would you accept them? i don´t think so.

to all the others: i hope the statements of mike, boris and me did explain the most. i think we get the conclusion, that we all have to take care of our sounds, spend as much energy as we can to form our own styles and be creative and most of all respect each other. this is the only way up, the rest is just a fall off.

[death on a stick]

'Samples can be used without any processing and editing and still be made to sound original and interesting.' - ermmm....how do you do that exactly without sound like you've nicked the sample?
Just use some imagination, that's all. Everything need not go 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234.



i truly believe chrissi and i make music that sounds unique and exciting and different. sven does the same
any online clips I can listen to? preferably more revealing than the 7 second bite deafmosaic linked to.

[MARKEG]

oh god... here comes minimal miro. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Buttman]

No wonder techno has stagnated when people stick to all these loop formulas.

This thread is just sad.

[MARKEG]

> Just use some imagination, that's all. Everything need not go 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234.

death. i know this. i listen to all sorts of techno/music/shit but i enjoy making 1234 1234 techno. i enjoy playing it and i enjoy listening to it. why is your taste better than my 1234?

cummon ppl does anyone know of any links to our stuff that you can pm to death?

[death on a stick]

why is your taste better than my 1234?
eh? you asked me how it was possible to use a blatant sample in a way that sounded original. While I didn't give explicit instructions on how to do so (there are none, rules don't apply, that's what causes stagnation), I don't see where you got that inference from.

To be a little clearer then, by "Everything need not go 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234" what I meant was that with a little creative sequencing you can shift the emphasis of any sound, be it sampled or not, so that it is not just the same format as the original sound with your own kick underneath it. I've sampled world famous and very popular tunes, big long segments of them, and people have still not recognised them until I explained how it was done.

[Buttman]

By the way... What difference would it make if the Skulltunes gang actually DID sample Patrik Skoog etc.? I mean, they are not the originators either are they?

[MARKEG]

> To be a little clearer then, by "Everything need not go 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234" what I meant was that with a little creative sequencing you can shift the emphasis of any sound, be it sampled or not, so that it is not just the same format as the original sound with your own kick underneath it. I've sampled world famous and very popular tunes, big long segments of them, and people have still not recognised them until I explained how it was done.

mate this is precisely what i was saying. i don't understand why you'll brought this up. it's exactly what we do. change start points, end points, change eq... be creative. it's just what i was saying. but don't stick with the same sample from a sample cd.

[MARKEG]

> By the way... What difference would it make if the Skulltunes gang actually DID sample Patrik Skoog etc.? I mean, they are not the originators either are they?

Interesting point. But then imagine if everyone used a 909 or an 808. ahemmm.. hold on. they do. Oh sod it then. Jeff Mills didnt write Waveform III - Roland did.

Let's not go down this route butty :) :lol: :lol: :lol:

[miromiric.]

'Samples can be used without any processing and editing and still be made to sound original and interesting.' - ermmm....how do you do that exactly without sound like you've nicked the sample?


i tend not to change my samples to much. they are usually samples of things from my enviroment, noizes, machines, voices; i just want to preserve that touch of reality.

i think a lot of music has directing the dead end, repeating itself over and over and over again. we should go out on the streets, take our little microphones and dats and record our reality. in this way you can truly be a spokesman of modern time, exactly what Techno is.

[Buttman]

> By the way... What difference would it make if the Skulltunes gang actually DID sample Patrik Skoog etc.? I mean, they are not the originators either are they?

Interesting point. But then imagine if everyone used a 909 or an 808. ahemmm.. hold on. they do. Oh sod it then. Jeff Mills didnt write Waveform III - Roland did.

Let's not go down this route butty :) :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have a point but you still program the 909. There are no ready made arrangements it it (as far as I know).

Making good sounds is easy, arranging them in a good way is hard.

I quote my boy Grovskopa:
"When I want to play with loops I go spin.
When I want to make music I make music."


*Going down the route*

[MARKEG]

making good loops is easy. arranging them in a creative and original way is hard.

someone give me one good reason why working with midi is better than working with loops and midi. someone tell me why working with loops is not just as creative as working with a bunch of pre programmed synths/drum machines where you only twiddle a few nobs to get different sounds.

with loops you twiddle eq.. apply filters. chop them up. paste them together. arrange them differently. create your own thing.

with midi you change the vco twiddle with the vcf. arrange notes. create your own thing.

it's all the same. grrrrr...

this is really making me mad. :x if you haven't messed with loops creatively or found a way to do it please dont tell me that your way is better.

use both worlds - both technologies - and take the sound forward.

[death on a stick]

i don't understand why you'll brought this up. it's exactly what we do. change start points, end points, change eq... be creative. it's just what i was saying. but don't stick with the same sample from a sample cd.
you're taking this too personally, I've not addressed any of this at your productions, I already said I've not heard your tracks.

However, I brought it up as quite obviously I am correct with regards to the laziness of producers, otherwise this entire debacle would never have arisen, would it? If this Skull gang hadn't used the same formula as other people using the same formula as other people using...etc etc...then none of this stupidity would have taken place.

[Buttman]

making good loops is easy. arranging them in a creative and original way is hard.

Do you honestly say that making good loops from scratch (and I mean from a totally empty pattern) is easy??

[Adverse]

^^^ yes i want to know this too

[MARKEG]

i'm not taking this personally. i'm just getting well into the debate cause it matters to me :)

yes we've realised that skull tunes need to be more creative with their loops. they've realised this too - ie boris mentions the recycle prog and the plug in logic that he's now messing with. great! now let's see what they come up with.

RE: loops from nothing. Fruity Loops? Reason? MIDI connected to your sequencer? etc etc?

[MARKEG]

ok look i have to get into the studio at some point today.. back later to see where this all goes...

[herman]

It seems to me that the main part of the problem here seems to stem from people using sample cd's rather than the fact that they sample.Much the same as people who only use presets on there synth's etc, the lazy unoriginal way to do things is always going to sound like the next lazy unoriginal guy isn't it?

[Buttman]

RE: loops from nothing. Fruity Loops? Reason? MIDI connected to your sequencer? etc etc?

You must be some kind of prodigal child. I am only satisfied with, let us say, 1 out of 10 loops I make.

[death on a stick]

yes we've realised that skull tunes need to be more creative with their loops.
Not just them, what about the people that have been raging at them for doing exactly the same thing they did themselves? LAME!!!

[Adverse]

hooo hooo hooo..

[Buttman]

Not just them, what about the people that have been raging at them for doing exactly the same thing they did themselves? LAME!!!

Finally =)

[gunjack]

first of all something to deafmosaic:
in a german board, boris and me DID apologize, we never used CONSCIOUSLY a loop, which has already been used in another record. the loops we were blamed for are from a record we have never possessed. i promise. there was a real loop-rip of one of sven´s records from another artist (3 loops in one track!!!) also and sven huddled it together. now sven and we are friends again,we phoned about 1hr and all the differences are cleared.

o.k. mate fair enough. i jumped the gun in accusing you, but you must admit that using these loops so prominently in your arrangements can easily create a situation like this.


another thing is dj amok. and it isn´t of interest for me, if he is an artist from you, too. he is only a friend of sven, not directly affected in any way and called me and boris "motherf...", "dick suckers" and lots more and spread this over the boards. sorry, this is definitely NOT objective and we pull our consequences out of that.
i´m not angry about any of your statements, but please do a difference between objective discussions and insults. would you accept them? i don´t think so.


ok, i understand ben has insulted you personally. he has apologized. I WILL TALK WITH HIM. i would consider it a personal favor if you boys would stop giving him a hard time and allow me to convince him to not speak about you folks any further. i am not trying to be a dick, but ben is one of ours and if you all continue to try and damage his career, i will not be happy.

again, i would look at it as a favor to me, if you boys would lay off him, he is having a tough time and is learning hard life lessons every day. anyone who knows me knows that i am a man of my word so the ball is in your court. if you insist on persuing retaliation against Ben (amok) i will have to consider it a personal insult on my word and will be very ............ disapointed.


i appreciate your time in answering all of these inquiries and hope that you boys will make an effort to create music which is less limilar to others in the future.


now i would like to say a word to the board. firstly, death on a stick has a noble point about originality, mark also has a good point and i always used to say: "it aint the box, its how you bang it." but at the end of the day, the trouble here is that folks cant be bothered to stay on the right side of that originality line, and in some cases the culprit is the thought that "my new track sounds like 'that other track'"

this is the poison of our industry. all of us are guilty of this to some degree whether we admit it or not, but we must make an extra effort to create our own approach to making music, otherwise homogeny will eat us all up.


i was also caught up on one side of this debate without examining all of the possibilities, my excuse is that one of my own was very passionate about "his side" but beyond all this, you skulltunes boys and the rest of us alike should be learning from this ridiculous fiasco:

try to make some music which is easily recognized as yours.

i like to think i have my own "gunjack sound" as does emergence/mark and miro/the anxious/etc. but it isnt enough to think this way, we have to prove it with every release.


a close friend once told me that my work gets better with every track, it is a compliment i will cherish for ever. the day my work goes stagnant and i am unable to find a new approach to expressing myself effectively, that is the day i begin with a new medium.

[BritishMurderBoy]

will someone clarify something for my brain that know little about production...

Sven was in here earlier this week after tripleX had started the topic that certain groups had stolen his loops fopr use in their own production? yes?

when the "certain groups" finally posted they claimed the loops had come from sounds banks other sources (such as CD's) etc...?

if this is true is Sven not claiming that a loop he had taken from a CD is his own work and that some one was plaigerising it? After taking 20 mins to read the whole discussion im still confused....

Did Sven actually make some thing original or has this discussion just drawn to the conclusion that both groups of artistes use pre programmed loops?

cheers lads

dan

[Buttman]

Did Sven actually make some thing original or has this discussion just drawn to the conclusion that both groups of artistes use pre programmed loops?

Yes. Very sad, do you not think?

[death on a stick]

has this discussion just drawn to the conclusion that both groups of artistes use pre programmed loops?
that would seem to be the case. It seems the fight is over who is the least original.

"I used the sample CD!!"
"I used it first"
"yeah but I'm less original than you"
"no way, my ideas are the stalest"

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/thoa048.jpg

[Greg Silver]

deafmosaic: now i have a better impression of you. first i thought u were just a troublemaker. i appreciate your reaction and hope we can have lots more discussions in a friendly way here.
i also understand that you protect amok as a friend of yours. but the whole thing is managed by our adcocate since last week. we didn´t make a report, he just will be admonished for the insults and all the real bad things he did. if he is calm, objective and friendly again, nobody will push the trouble further. but this lesson he has to learn. and i can´t stop anymore.

[serox]

Sounds like the most original person here is the person who made techno trance essential CD :)
It isn't hard to tell which CD's these artists all use. They do use the same kind of equipment (if any) when making these records. 1 good tune on a record with 3 shit ones they made in one day. Some do have nice ideas when putting the music together though, but not much of the loops/kicks/hats are made from scratch.

It would take too much time for them to make everything from scratch, and why waste time when this sells.

peace
/serox

[Buttman]

Stop these pussy threats and get to some action. Anyone can play tough on a message board.

[BritishMurderBoy]

this group of three threads has to go down as the most unusual of all time.. i wonder if sven will post again in response...

as for u butty :roll:

[Buttman]

as for u butty :roll:

As what for me?
Am I the most unusual thread? =)

[gunjack]

cheers greg, but i must repeat: if dj amoks young career is attacked any further by your people, i will not be a very reasonable person for very long. i must ask again, as a PERSONAL FAVOR to gunjack, that you call off the actions you have set into motion. I WILL ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE HE REALIZES THE SEVERITY of these sorts of actions.... if you insist on further retaliation, this could get very dirty and the situation may require an outside element to "clean" it.


also i have a quick question: your bio states that you came up first in the game through early releases on "Generator records", but Alan Oldham (T-1000 of Generator records) is a friend of mine and says he has never heard of you.... could there have been another Generator records around that time?






yes we've realised that skull tunes need to be more creative with their loops.
Not just them, what about the people that have been raging at them for doing exactly the same thing they did themselves? LAME!!!


to whom do you direct this please? at DJamok? if this was directed at me you are SORELY mistaken.



It seems to me that the main part of the problem here seems to stem from people using sample cd's rather than the fact that they sample.Much the same as people who only use presets on there synth's etc, the lazy unoriginal way to do things is always going to sound like the next lazy unoriginal guy isn't it?


yes my man. yes.




Do you honestly say that making good loops from scratch (and I mean from a totally empty pattern) is easy??

if one is inspired, it should be easy.

[BritishMurderBoy]

the most unusual poster maybe.. what i meant i thought i was ironic that


Anyone can play tough on a message board.

came from your mouth....

[Buttman]

Anyone can play tough on a message board.
came from your mouth....

Hehe yes, I am not so tough in real life as on this board. I am quite sure that goes for everyone on here (ok, maybe not Gunjack).

[serox]

agreed, some people are just throwing out music for the $. And it would take them too long to be original about it.

[death on a stick]

to whom do you direct this please? at DJamok? if this was directed at me you are SORELY mistaken.
It was directed at any and all "artists" who, in the course of this saga, have accused another "artist" of plagiarising their work, when in fact it would seem to have become apparent that the truth is that they are all equally unoriginal. I'm not aware that you are involved in that in any way other than by association with certain members of one "side", and that you are representing your friend's interests. I don't know who DJ Amok is or what he has said, and in fact exactly who is who has evaded me.

I'd really like some clarification on this now. I was just thinking about this while waiting for my prawn and salad baguette...at first I just thought it was real sad that people were getting worked up over their generic loop tracks. Now it's looking like some sort of campaign has been run against one group of people via various forums and probably other means...by another group who have just been revealed as total hypocrites as they were using the same lame methods to make the music they were claiming to have had STOLEN from them. That makes me pretty f.ucking angry if it's true.

Is that actually what has happened, or am I misreading the situation? I just want that clarified in case I start railing off about things I've not understood. It seems so ludicrous I can hardly believe it could be true.

[Chazbloke]

I'd really like some clarification on this now. I was just thinking about this while waiting for my prawn and salad baguette...at first I just thought it was real sad that people were getting worked up over their generic loop tracks. Now it's looking like some sort of campaign has been run against one group of people via various forums and probably other means...by another group who have just been revealed as total hypocrites as they were using the same lame methods to make the music they were claiming to have had STOLEN from them. That makes me pretty f.ucking angry if it's true.



that's how i've read it as....and a good read it was too!
glad y'all lovely techno peeps r sorted (kinda...)

[gunjack]

Anyone can play tough on a message board.
came from your mouth....

Hehe yes, I am not so tough in real life as on this board. I am quite sure that goes for everyone on here (ok, maybe not Gunjack).


c'mon, i am a pussycat! :D

[serox]

Of course it is what has happand, why do you think so much of the music sounds the same on the labels, it was sure to come out at some stage. How many of the same artist are using the same studios? How many have a template techno loop they use, and just do small changes it to them...

Can you feel it?

[gunjack]

Can you feel it?

your gonna feel it in a minute smartass.... ; )

[BritishMurderBoy]

total hypocrites as they were using the same lame methods to make the music they were claiming to have had STOLEN from them. That makes me pretty f.ucking angry if it's true.



this is what i was confused about mate and i think the sad thing is that it is true...


however as for the discussion between deaf/greg i believe there is something behind this conversation that is not made entirely clear on this topic..


while waiting for my prawn and salad baguette no wonder ur bluddy angry mate, were they all out of cheese :D

[death on a stick]

deafmosaic...you seem closest to the issues without actually being involved...is my appraisal accurate in your opinion? Did it really happen as it appears to myself and others?

[Greg Silver]

[quote="deafmosaic"]i must ask again, as a PERSONAL FAVOR to gunjack, that you call off the actions you have set into motion. I WILL ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE HE REALIZES THE SEVERITY of these sorts of actions.... if you insist on further retaliation, this could get very dirty and the situation may require an outside element to "clean" it.

like i told u. i can´t call them off,because they are out by mail already. but i told the advocate to stop any further persecution of this case. this is the only thing i could do besides trusting your words. so after that, everything is fine and i have never again a problem with him nor do i anything to constrain him on his career.

[quote="deafmosaic"]also i have a quick question: your bio states that you came up first in the game through early releases on "Generator records", but Alan Oldham (T-1000 of Generator records) is a friend of mine and says he has never heard of you.... could there have been another Generator records around that time?

there was a label "generator records" in germany, near mainz. i don´t know this guy, too.

[gunjack]

ok greg. i understand. may i have a copy of the piece that went out? i will need it for damage control. private message will be fine of course
DJ Amok will not bother you folks again as i have made it my business to straighten this out with him. cheers and good luck with future, original projects.


death on a stick (love the screen name btw): it would appear the culprit in this case is relentless sample(train)spotters, ready made loop producers, over zealous protesters of "theft" and a heavy dose of circumstance.


i am glad that this wasnt as ugly as it could have been.

[death on a stick]

it would appear the culprit in this case is relentless sample(train)spotters, ready made loop producers, over zealous protesters of "theft" and a heavy dose of circumstance.
hhmmm..well, it seems to me the whole thing could have been avoided in a couple of ways. Aside from the obvious (i.e. making decent music with a bit of effort) it seems reasonable that the accusers in this case could have considered that the people they were accusing used the same source material for their music before embarking on a campaign against them. Is there so little thought put into this music that someone doesn't remember where they lifted an untreated loop from?

I think some people have some serious back tracking and public apologies to be getting started with. I think it's f.ucking disgraceful. No matter how seriously one takes one's efforts (if there are any) at producing original music, there is NO EXCUSE for doing what has been done here given the eventual truth we have seen revealed. These accusers should be ashamed of themselves!! I'd also recommend selling all their studio equipment and going to work in a factory. Obviously the repetitive production-line formula appeals to them, and bar any industrial accidents it would seem to be less of a minefield. Very sad. I'd like to see those who have posted their accusations here come back with an explanation that refutes what appears to have happened as I'm still unconvinced that anyone could be so carelessly stupid. If they don't, I feel it's safe to assume they have realised their errors and are unable to back up their actions.

[gunjack]

indeed.

[Greg Silver]

stop please accusing anybody. let us do music mates!

sven wittekind is building his loops by himself, i know that. but unfortunately you also get his loops like tons from others all over the web. and this must be a loop we have taken unconsciously. for us it´s over, i never take a loop from the web again, because i never can know who made this thing as original.

for better understanding: visit www.flashkit.com and take a look at the loops

[TripleX]

Greg could you post the direct link, from where you downloaded the Psycho shock loop?

[gunjack]

stop please accusing anybody. let us do music mates!

sven wittekind is building his loops by himself, i know that. but unfortunately you also get his loops like tons from others all over the web. and this must be a loop we have taken unconsciously. for us it´s over, i never take a loop from the web again, because i never can know who made this thing as original.

for better understanding: visit www.flashkit.com and take a look at the loops


wait a second. i thought you gys said sven was using the same samples from a sample cd and that is how this got started.... you had better explain from the beginning. and quickly. i am beiginning to lose my patience.

[Greg Silver]

i don´t know where it was from. we have a directory "loops" on our harddisk and there we put every loop in. sorry, but i don´t really know. but with hundreds of loops this is impossible.

[serox]

"we got a live one"

[Greg Silver]

now its getting boring to tell everybody the whole story again. deaf i pm´ed u.

[gunjack]

i never got your p.m. lets icq this out i am 227786742. please log in.

[death on a stick]

this topic has suddenly become as dull and looping as the music you're all fighting about.

well, that was the most interesting thing that's ever happened on this forum since I've been here. there's been like, more than 4 posts today.

[TripleX]

what about getting overdoxx on? curious what he gotta say

[bornaa]

overall...constant use of loops other people made (dont care if its even from sample cd's) is gay....maby sometimes if u make something really cool out of some loop and its totaly diferent....but using 10 loops on your every track someone else made and changing them shows that all you have as a producer is SOME skill, and that skill is playing with other peoples stuff....ok, you create something new and diferent, but being an artist isnt just to create, it is to express yourself tru sound creation....and what your doing here with all these looping is creating just to make something that sounds cool....you depend on the loops others made and they influence your music just too much to be art....u recycle other peoples work and declare its art...

mark, if loops are so easy to make and the real skill is to blend and change them, why dont u make your own loops then and play with those?
wouldnt you feel better if you knew that everything in your tunes are your ideas and your work ?

rather start from scratch and learn how to express YOUR SELF for a couple of years, even if you dont release 10 vinyls per month and your not so c00l in "da scene" :lol:

seems to me many people here here just to be producers and not artists....how does your conscious give you satistaction when you finish a tune with other peoples work in them?

i dont even want to coment people who take a whole tune and put them in their own.....whats the point? you will maby get released on vinyl and be cool? most likely youll get busted and be knows as a ripoff like so many people (on this forum :wink: ) will be .... bekeke....

[MARKEG]

> mark, if loops are so easy to make and the real skill is to blend and change them, why dont u make your own loops then and play with those?
wouldnt you feel better if you knew that everything in your tunes are your ideas and your work ?

we do this for sure. my loop library is a miss mash of mangled sampled cd's and mess arounds with reason, cubase add vairous midi instruments and rebirth etc etc. what i like about loops from sample cd's is it gives you feelings and grooves that you wouldn't have usually put in yourself on a midi sequencer or with reason etc. it's a very quick way of getting different inspiration.

but i do totally see where you're coming from. it would give you TONNES more satisfaction knowing everything was 100% your own and still be able to get the same sound. give me more time on this planet and i'll build up more and more personally created loops and reduce what i use from sample cd's. i'm heading that way anyway. i've only been producing for about 8 years and only really got half decent at it in the last three.

for example bass guitar loops can make really interesting basslines. i'd love to record my own but i can't play the guitar. so i chop and paste a guitar loop and eq it to my liking. perhaps add distortion to flatten it out a bit. i dunno there's load you can do. this is a quick and effective way of adding something i wouldnt normally be able to add to my work. which in turn helps the creative process and keeps my fresh with new ideas. down the line - yes - we'll get a session musician in record him on the guitar.

but for now this is sometimes the only option for us to test out different ideas and sounds. it works for me and i always feel excited and can be inspired really quickly in the studio. it never felt like this with only midi.

[MARKEG]

wow this is a good topic isnt' it?!?!! :D

[miromiric.]

wow this is a good topic isnt' it?!?!! :D

yes, it feels so warm and pleasant...

[miromiric.]

ooops wrong topic. this should have been posted under FOR THE RAVER GIRLS.

:lol: *ggggg* :lol:

[death on a stick]

yeah for things like that bass guitar example I think sample CDs are valid...it's using CDs geared towards dance music that already have the whole thing done for you that is particularly lame.

A few years ago I actually put a record out with a track that directly sampled a very well known techno producer for an element of the track. It never occurred to me that he would mind as we were acquainted, and fortunately he didn't, but he was a bit miffed that I didn't ask him. I learned from that.

I'd not like it to be thought that my rants on this thread are in any way anti-sampling, or even that I've not used sample CDs, cos I have (I got one free with my sampler back in '96...dogs woofing etc), but if I've lifted a sample in that way I make sure it's not the focus of the track, or I change it so it's totally unrecogniseable. Most importantly, I focus on making every element of a track into part of a whole that actually means something. Just having a cool loop means nothing if you don't do something good with it.

[gunjack]

hi! i have just had a long talk with greg silver on icq..... he denies ever consiously using any unauthorized material. he maintains his position that the sven loops came from a hard drive with many loops of which he was not aware of the origins. the official skulltunes statements seem to be: "drums can not be copywritten" "this was a problem between sven and us, and now its finished" "we never intended to use unauthorized loops on a commercial release"



i have asked them to come up with a comprehensive public statement regarding the now excessive mass of artists who are standing in accusation against the label. they have refused. they maintain that if any artist has issues with skulltunes, to please contact them directly..... i am tired and will now go to bed, but i hoe you all will post any new infromation that becomes available.

to be frank, this is a mess, but i am not one to f u c k around with ppl. frankly - this will end one of two ways - badly or worse.

[Greg Silver]

okay mateys here is my last statement and then i will do my work, this discussion is going on my nerves. i got a another long discussion with via icq and i repeat what i said there:

me for my person never used consciously any unauthorized material for my tracks. i also don´t mind if anybody uses sample cds, if he changes these samples or leaves them in original condition. that´s what they are for. the rest ist the personal thing of the producer.

i do not want to hear threats or insults anymore. so i leave this thing here.

have a good time.

[MARKEG]

just to clear some stuff up here. my understanding is sven makes his tracks in a standalone sequencing package without the need for sample cd's. THAT's my understanding after one conversation with him three weeks ago. fair bloody play to him if this is the case.

i think what greg is saying is that he gets one loop from all types of sources sample cd's, the interent etc etc. he's found one particualr one whilst surfing, ie a loop from one of sven's tracks which he didn't realise was one of sven's track, stuck it in his hard drive and forgot about it. then he used it on a track of his without realising the need to change it. it came out and the shit hit the fan.

i reckon from what's been said here that greg and boris have learnt a big lesson from this. boris says he now uses recycle to chop up loops and greg has said he will never be getting his loops from the internet again. good. let's see what happens in the future.

but i think that a few of you haven't read the original situation properly here. to recap: sven had a go at skull tunes for taking a loop of his. which they did. which they've admit. if i'm right about the way sven produces, this would have been a totally original loop. fair play. he was right to have a go. now the situation is resolved. good.

but as far at the other tracks - the submissions sample etc etc.... it wasn't the other artists eg patrick and glenn etc that were making a fuss about this. to the best of my knowledge, none of these artists who used these same 'clean' loops from sample cds have ever turned around and accused skull of nicking their loops. it was everyone else who came to the wrong conclusion!

it's just been a huge lesson in creativity. one which i hope we all take note of to improve the genre. :D

[TripleX]

just one last question to greg or boris.
you guys said you didn´t know it was sven´s loop, right, but you had that specific track "Psycho shock" on your charts right?

[boris s]

triple x ... the only and last thing i say to that: the issue is cleared with sven! i think that's enough!!

over and out.

we have done enough statements!

greetings,

boris

[daviec]

Whew! I've just read this topic from start to finish and it's been enlightening to say the very least.

It's certainly cleared up some of the mystery of tunes production as far as I'm concerned.

When I first started mucking around with making music I used loads of samples (from CD's not other tracks). I'd try my hardest to "disguise" them using plug-ins, eq-ing, and chaning the start-end points.

A while down the line I discovered vst instruments and started to add my own sections on top of my loops, but I still felt that my aim was to eventually sequence whole tracks without loops, which I eventually managed.

My understanding was that this was how 99% of tracks would have been produced. I can now see that this is how a number of people on here feel it should be.

I thought I was "cheating" by using loops and trying to "hide" them in fx and eq, but I think Mark's points about making loops your own are valid, and it has made me rethink my position on some of my previous tracks.

Now I can understand that you could give the same samples I used in those tracks to many people and no one would have come up with the same track I did, so in that sense my track were original.

I'd have to say that as far as the discussion here goes I think mangling samples and "making them your own" is just as valid as designing original loops, it's just a different route to an end product.

[death on a stick]

I thought I was "cheating" by using loops and trying to "hide" them in fx and eq
I don't think any method is cheating. Ultimately the only thing that matters is what comes out at the end - the music. It just happens that some methods seem to consistently produce very low quality music, and as has been illustrated here, some methods can show people up as unimaginative and unoriginal in their thought processes.

[miromiric.]

i really respect what you said man on the skull tunes post...

you're obviously very passionate, but also very ****in diplomatic

how then does one police a forum? it's driving me mad. the last thing i want to be responsible for is ****in someone's life up on a stupid forum. i love this place, i created it, but it obviously holds too many -veity's and i'm not too keen on this at the moment.

please give me your thoughts man....

[Patrick]

show us your music stick of the death!

And where can I get to hear some of yours Miro ? You keep mentioning things like abstract minimalism, Reich and you talk about recording your own noises and sounds which really interests me.Very intriguing. Sounds right up my street. 8)

[professor]

Irony...I was going to post a question in the "Techno Production" forum about whether or not people used sampled drum sounds...the individual sounds...in there production, or whether people made new, fairly one-of-a-kind drum/percussion sounds from a synth(s).

Now I see this debate about using entire pre-made loops in tracks.

This discussion has certaily change my understanding of electronic music production. Maybe I am naive, but I thought we were all creating our own sounds...our own mark.

Again with the disclaimer, I'm down with using samples, but not to the point of calling them a track of your own.

On Spinwarp, a Dnb forum, you can read tutorials about how to create any drum sound you want from a fairly simple synth. I thought everyone was doing this, at least to some extent.

I don't have a "label", nor do I produce for a label, so I don't fully understand the industry, but when all of you do here what I'm make'n, you will hear my stuff, and not other peoples work/loops, liscense free or otherwise.

No offense to anyone, just my belief.

I think I'll hold off on the question of whether people make their own percussion with synths, or use sampled kicks, snares, toms, etc.

[MARKEG]

fair enough professor. i look forward to hearing your stuff mate :)

[crime]

I think you all need to sit down with a nice cup of tea and a few Si Begg records, show you a thing or two about sampling....

[MARKEG]

yeah.. bin listening to his new novamute album for the last month... very different stuff i thought :D .

[miromiric.]

show us your music stick of the death!

And where can I get to hear some of yours Miro ? You keep mentioning things like abstract minimalism, Reich and you talk about recording your own noises and sounds which really interests me.Very intriguing. Sounds right up my street. 8)

i have to contact my lawyers to see am i allowed to give anyone my music.



pm me and we will arrange something.

[crime]

I suppose this all highlights the problem of getting your groove from a loop off a record or a sample cd, it's never going to be your own groove that you sequenced.. not that I'm anti sampling, I use the odd loop myself, albeit a totally mangled in soundforge loop, and lets face it, dance music was built on sampling, but if the source materiel is limited to sampling from techno these things are going to happen... I have a little rule for myself which is never sample techno, I've broken it a few times, but whatever I've sampled I've usually mangled beyond all recognition....

[eyes without a face]

yeah Mark of course id change the loops, thats a rule id learnt b4 this topic came about.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE FUN THAT SITTING DOWN WITH A NEW SAMPLE CD AND CHECKING OUT WOTS ON THAT BABY!!!!

im with mark all the way on this one, sample cds and loops are great. u cant some seriously good traxs put together when used originally and with a bit of thought.

sorting out ur loops into clearly marked folders on ur computer will help u out no end, im currently sorting out my loop library and am looking for the sample CDs in question, i look forward to putting some loops into acid, ****in em up and throwing them together in cubase baby!!!!

[MARKEG]

i really do recommend you dont pick the sample cd's that that were mentioned earlier. :wink: there's been so many samples taken from these (eg techno trance essentials) that you're totally wasting your time with them now.

like me, become a total sample cd trainspotter. i know my sample cd's just like i know my records, just like i know my equipment. like you say, it's all great fun... :twisted:

[eyes without a face]

good advice mark, i understand wot u mean about the cds in question.

could u put me onto some sample cd sites or decent places to check em out?

[gunjack]

dude, i am sure most of us could make patterns better than the ppl who make those often times horrrible zero g CDs etc.....

[The Divide]

I only just stumbled across this post, amazing points from all sides. I don’t want to resurrect this whole argument, to be honest I find debates like this are great for all people unless it's becomes a bitch fight. I think its all great, loops, samples, audio, midi and at the end of the day its what you do with it. I think ripping a loop of some one else's record and using it your own is wrong as is using a loop as the main riff and not doing anything with it. My opinion is...

Creating a decent track that sounds new and original that works is hard to do using loops and is the same with midi. I don’t feel I have as much control over how you can shape and change the groove/feel or the track with loops. Sometimes using acid and getting something down that ways great for a backbone of percussion and then I tend to take the track from there. Mostly turning out nothing like what I started with. But what I find is it defiantly gets the creative juices flowing (and I have done some tracks all the way like this). Its then when all the Rewire and the Akai gets used and the main riff of the track will come from using midi with the use of single hit samples and manipulation or whatever. I think there all great and useful tools and what I think is the problem here is people not really expressing themselves whist writing a track. If you do that and don’t put the effort in the final result ends up sounding like something you have already heard before (ie the chopped up loops you have put in). Look at it this way, its not just techno people that use loops. All kinds of music is created with them…

Here's a quote from http://www.musicoflife.com/beatsbreaks.htm Breakbeat sample and loop c.d.

"just look in the record boxes and sample collections of talented producers such as The Dust Brothers, Fatboy Slim, REM, Luthor Vandros, George Clinton, Public Enemy, Basement Jaxx and Doctor Dre, you'll see why Beats Breaks and Scratches is much more than just a collection of breakbeats and samples. It's an invaluable tool, a dance producers trade secret that's guaranteed to make the beats heavier, the basslines rock and any dancefloor explode!"

Difference is they build a song based track or arrangement on top of it. I find that you have to go along tho lines to an extent too otherwise it will sound like 6mins of the same over and over.

Okies. Who knows, I am only a beginner and only learning the ropes. I do use as much midi as audio but i tend to construct the main patterns mostly. But that’s only because it suits the stlye or sound that I am trying to produce. Way I see it, good the only people who are wrong are the Artists that rip the other ones off, not the Artist/producer (whatever) using loops.

So there you go, that my view. To be honest its not totally valid because my tracks arnt that good but its my what i think. If you don’t like it do be honest I don’t care :P :P :P

[The Divide]

Hmmm, perhaps we should carry this on in the underground techno production part of the forum. :roll:

[Paul Nisbet]

Good topic, but think this has got way out of hand. Careers on the internet can be made and destroyed right here, right now. It looks to me that this whole situation was never as sinister as first made out, yet names ave been dragged about on both sides rather unfairly i think.

Sayin that maybe better out in the open??? Who knows...

Appreciate both arguments, dont do any production yet, but would agree that usin loops is ok if done creativly, and creatin them... well nothin but respect for havin the forward thinkin innovative way of makin music.

In the end, its all techno... and we are all (most) in it with the same passion and love.

[eyes without a face]

hey gunny

i know wot u mean, id much rather use all original patterns to create my beatz, but i work soley in the computer with no outboard gear and loops are a wikid way to keep going with

[Heroes]

normally i dont get involved on board discussions but heres my view anyway. hits n small sound snippets from loops r fine to use and tweak but what i think is not good r 0ne or two bar loops of full blown peak time hooks from records. Non creative full stop. My tonal path tune got totally ripped for a german label, the most anoying was they said they dont use loops and that insults your intelligence because all producers know there tunes. iam gonna upload a link so you can all make your own minds up....stay tuned

regards G W

[eyes without a face]

glenn would that label have been SubSounds? my friend got a Sandy Warez record on that label and one of the tracks was identical to a track off Tonal Path. i play tonal path alot and recognised it within a second of hearing it.

all that seems to have been done is the record sampled, then re sequenced but with some very cheesy scratching over it

[Adverse]

that would be probably the 3 or 4th time someone has ripped it off eh mate?

[John Vella]

Man I read about 5 pages of this argument and its making my head spin... It's really taking alot of the fun out of this techno stuff so I stopped reading.

I think sampling is completely 100% fine as long as you can make that sample "YOURS" by fukkin it up somehow....

Personally I would never feel good about releasing something that clearly revolved its sound around an untouched loop or 2 of an existing track or tracks that were out there....

But man alot of the times this seems to be a gray area with people using the same sample CDs!!

Honestly... Its a combonation of 2 things I think... Both sides of the spectrum can probably benefit by this simple combo:

1)People need to take their heads out of their assess....

2)People using samples should use common sense....


P.S You all just need to sample the geezer playin his bass guitar at the train station and you'll be a-ok I think. hehehe....

;)

-jOHNNY

[karlo]

All people give some look on this....i didnt so i will now!

Realy, never heard any release of skull tunes rec. so i cant give my comment, i just know that i make remix for skull tunes cat no. 10

So will see.

Karlo

[Jimfish]

good lord, im not really going to even bother going into this one..

actually, i will have a brief chat..

i dont give a **** if someone is using a sample cd or doing it all themselves.

i dont give a **** if someones tracks are mind bogglingly simaler dancefloor tunes or tripped out eclectic brain candy.

All i care about is quality of the music and the production, how it is made is of no concern to me, and thus, anybody is free to sample anything i ever do and i will be only too happy for them to make a really nice track out of it and be honoured that they chose my bits to sample..

[Jimfish]

saying that i would never actually sample a main groove or hook from somebody else's record. And actually i would think it a bit weird if somebody else did it to another record thinking about it..
duh

I myself use sample cd stuff some of the time, this is cos i like working with audio and the sound you can get from loop mashing. But alongside this i sometimes spend long periods of time making my own percussion etc loops and storing them in my library for future use. Be it with home-made loops or sample cd loops i then tend to chop and mash etc etc.. This really is a great, and can be a very creative way (depending how far you go with it) of achieving good end results (and a very 'large' sound).

Also though, i engineer a lot of other types of music where i use no loops whatsoever and work in a completly different way, with mostly synthesised parts, and i still get good results (i think). To me loop work in techno tracks is just a part of the creative process needed to attain the sound i am looking for.

[DJPAUZE]

i think i will have to totally agree with Jimfish on this one. When i buy a record, i listen to the quality of the track and the imagination behind it. If a producer can take a loop and make a whole new track out of it without plagerizing the arrangement i dont see the harm in it at all.
I bought Skull Tunes 3 with the Varela loop, I bought Hydraulix 15 with the Speedy J loop. Ill buy anything as long as it makes me move my batty hole!!!!

Peace Out
Pauze :evil:

[gunjack]

c o p o u t








lets all just give in to rip off beats. can we get a lock on this f*cking thread?! it makes me sick...................................

[Jimfish]

no its not

[Jimfish]

i do totally hear what you are saying tho deaf.. and i think its all fair enough.

At the end of the day, when ive been in the studio engineering a trance track or a house track for somebody using no sample cds etc i feel no more creative whatsoever than when i make techno for myself with sampled bits.. Its because i know that i have done a lot of creative work of my own to the samples and the track - and its just a different way of working alltogethor..

I know exactly how to make good music without any samples, and i often do - its just that using samples/loops is part of the creative process i use to achieve my techno sound. Besides which at least half the loops/samples i use were made by me in the first place!

[TripleX]

c o p o u t








lets all just give in to rip off beats. can we get a lock on this f*cking thread?! it makes me sick...................................

not just you, mate :roll:

[Paul Nisbet]

deafmosiac, member its just ur opinion. Just leave this thread too sink!!

[miromiric.]

deafmosiac, member its just ur opinion. Just leave this thread too sink!!

well its not just his opinion buddy. :roll:

[gunjack]

CAN WE PLEASE GET A LOCK ON THIS THREAD?! i have never seen a thread so deserving.

[MARKEG]

locked .. PHEW!