tom wax vs henrik b...stolen loop or what?

[anx]

alright since everyone is on the you stole my loop blabla i totally noticed something

ok, if you listen to the main loop in henrik b - 7a on illgorhythm
then if you listen to the tom wax mix of blood angel i cant remember what its on but its a remix of a jon starlight track

the tom wax mix totally has that loop in it

hmmmm....

those are pretty big artists i assume they just got the loop from the same place or somethin...wierd

[T]

This is an interesting topic.....I'd be interested to see how peolple on the forum (bearing in mind the recent heated debates on stolen loops) view the use of sampled breaks in hip hop, I mean that is a genre that developed wholly from using other people's musc, literally by looping drum breaks from someone elses track and adding yer own elements. Don't get me wrong, i am not advocating totally ripping other people off, but i suppose there is a fine line between using or abusing another person's work and using it in another context. Just interested to hear what poeple think of this and it's relevance to techno music. I am not a producer and apart form djing I have only dabbled a bit with siftware etc so maybe other producers are in a better position to judge.

[anx]

in this case there is an actual 1 bar loop taken from the henrik b track (under assumption it is stolen, but i could be wrong) they sound exactly the same tho.

[observer]

so this forum has turned out to be the techno police????!!!!!!!!

[MARKEG]

yeah i think everyone should leave it with this stolen loop shit. as long as the tracks good i really dont care. i dont think most people on the dancefloor do either.

[DJZeMig_L]

Like some1 said "the is a fine line between being creative with some1 elses sounds/ loops and ripping 'em"... I'm all 4 sampling in a creative way... so many great trackz have been donne by people only having 1 sampler.. I guess the dificulty is drawing the line between... U can really b objective if u've produced the track...

I have sampled and been sampled so... I like finding out samples and stuff so this topic is not ofensive (IMHO) ... as long as people do go all religious about samplig/ non-sampling...

Z

[Adverse]

yeah i think everyone should leave it with this stolen loop shit. as long as the tracks good i really dont care. i dont think most people on the dancefloor do either.

????????????????

[crime]

who cares about stealing... it's only an issue if it sounds too like the original

[DJAmok]

well if it´s a henrik b loop runnin under the synths from blood angels, then it should be a henrik b remix, not a tom wax remix, don´t you think ;)

actually I think this techno police thing could prove to be not such a bad idea after all, as it might get some more originality in techno. of course nobody should get all worked up about sampling, but if an entire loop is taken from another persons track and simply used unchanged, then this is something people should talk about. Personally I would like to know whether when I buy a record I give the money to the original artist or just someone who ripped him off.

But in this case I don´t know the remix, so I can´t judge. But if he really used the entire loop... then I´m seriously disappointed. :(

[gunjack]

yeah i think everyone should leave it with this stolen loop shit. as long as the tracks good i really dont care. i dont think most people on the dancefloor do either.

????????????????


i second that long string of punctuation.

[Dustin Zahn]

yeah i think everyone should leave it with this stolen loop shit. as long as the tracks good i really dont care. i dont think most people on the dancefloor do either.

I agree. I'm not saying I advocate blatant sample using, but its ****ing techno...the sampling is just as rampant as hip hop...get used to it.

[observer]

In this very narrow genre of ours, how can it be too much to ask that people layer their own damn drumpatterns? I´ve had people sampling from me and I don´t get that upset, it´s more a reaction of "what´s the point...?" Strange indeed to compare with hiphop since it´s, I can imagine, a bit more respectful borrowing loops in between acts because it is still music based on lyrics.

[DJAmok]

exactly that´s the thing with techno:

in hiphop when you sample someone else´s beat, you still have to do the vocals yourself. in trance you have to still do the melody yourself. but in techno? sample the drums and you´ve taken the whole damn track. and now really... making a decent drum loop ain´t that difficult.

[gunjack]

making a decent drum loop ain´t that difficult.


there it is.

[eyes without a face]

im split between this whole loops business to b honest. some of me thinks loops are superb to work with, not stolen loops tho, i mean royalty free samples. but another part of me screams, BE ORIGINAL!!!! much more rewarding when i start a new pattern, be it a hook or a drum line, and i sit back when it comes together and think "YEAHHH!!!!".

i cant comment on the stolen loops in question tho, ive not heard much Henrik B stuff, i dont remember hearing that release in question

[Paul Nisbet]

:cry:

[Dustin Zahn]

There's a lot of valid points here. It's probably one of those endless debates such as the hardware vs. software debate or the pc vs. mac. Both have pros and cons, though I think the general consensus lies more towards the no-loop-sampling standard.

At the end of the day, people who have truly original material will be seperated from the rest (granted it doesnt suck). The people who are original will get what they deserve (usually/hopefully), though it may come with time.

[anx]

i aint policing i was just wonderin if anyone noticed this as well

[technosnob]

This whole topic is a losing battle !!!!!

Point 1: Looking at my own record collection, only 30% have copyright
warnings.

Point 2: Those warnings go like this "All rights of the manufacturer and
the owner of the recorded work reserved. Unautorized public
performance, broadcasting and copying prohibeted".
So as a professinal DJ playing these records I am guilty of
theft (as are 99.9% of all DJ's).Copy those loops, Copy those
loops, Copy those loops.

Point 3: Most club goers (other than DJ's) don't own a turntable, so there
music comes from people such as myself. They don't know the
names of the songs, the artist(s), or label's. The only thing they
reconize is the DJ playing it...to them these stolen loops maybe
just the b-side or a remix.... they don't care !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there ass is moving it's all good baby.
:roll:

[observer]

So as a professinal DJ playing these records I am guilty of
theft (as are 99.9% of all DJ's).
:roll:


LOL Don´t you think it´s more like the clubs/radiostations/venues you play at are supposed to and in most cases do pay fees and taxes to music rights associations? What do you think "authorized" means, getting a signed personal letter of approval?

[MARKEG]

sorry guys, i think i said the wrong think there. it's just we'd had a whole week of the skull tunes debate which was totally mental and then this. i was sure that most of this had been addressed in the other post you see. of course i care about this issue. i dunno why i said i didn't.

my official stance:

sampling direct from vinyl is not really doing techno any favours. i personally don't do it anymore.

sampling from sample cd's is ok, but you must do things to craft the original into your own loop or else we get the whole skull tunes senario again.

[anx]

i have heard of people taking parts from a loop for example;

in soundforge you select the very start of the kick drum to right before the start of the next kickdrum, use that as a sample and turn it into 1 bar to get a tracky effect

u can still reconize a bit of the loop but it is real cut up so it is hard to reconize

what do u think of that?