Techno, a new movement.

[dirty_bass]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

[holotropik]

Hey DB,

I think i know what you are alluding to here. I have found much pressure to produce something that is more "user-friendly" and less out-right party bangin'. I get half the people telling me I should do some more recognisable stuff that sounds like everything else (ie: commercially viable) and the other half saying go into cerebral land and make stuff that does your head in, is fresh & not the same as everything else.

??!! eeek. Makes me very confused and its hard to get a lock onto a tune when you are in two minds.

I like to go into unchartered territory myself, but, that is not very saleable these dayz as most people dont like it or fail to understand it. Well, thats how it is here in Australia anyway (even though Techno is a global market its still small fry compared to more commercial genres).

A funny example to share is when I was recently driving in the car with my Brother who listens to commercial stuff. He was listening to Fat Boy Slim (of all things). This particular track (cant remember the name) but it was one of my bros' favourites. Upon listening I said to him i like the trumpet sample in it.....he said "what trumpet sample"?? I mentioned 2 other sounds that made it a catchy funky beat and he didnt notice them either.

Thats my point. How would cerebral "out-there" techno get across to most people? It doesnt and wont for a very long time.

[dirty_bass]

you can still be musical and experiment, or at least break the tight confines of techno, yet still have music that is listenable for joe average.
In some ways, certain types of techno still assume that people will be on drugs when they listen to it, and are almost not musical, more purely percussive.

[The Overfiend]

I don't hear music the right way when I am on drugs to be honest.
I actually feel better, I'm almost a month in sobriety.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Hmmm. Maybe its been done before but one of the things I would like to see in Techno is removal of hand claps and high hats with an actual drummer or other instruments used alongside bass lines and synths. Maybe make a techno track by composing different elements separately, than slowly building layers as a whole(Playing a guitar solo, using these riffs later on, seeing how other elements inspire you). Or artist feeding off each others music and making more collabrations. I don't want total removal of high hats and clappers of course but it would be nice to see a little bit more live instruments used and different ideas throwing in. I think maybe we need more live artist in Techno but most of the time these fools only want to imitate Kraftwerk and don't have any idea of all the new toys we got :lol: I'm not talking about rock music with cowbells but techno with more live feel. Someone was talking about half engineer/ musician techno artist. Got a check this out even though it sounds bit pretentious. Anyway did anyone invent a new drum machine or synth here?

[FILTERZ]

i stopped making techno a long time ago , now i just make music that has techno as one of its influences .

[FILTERZ]

soory was ghonna elaborate more but ............................the man is looking over my shoulder ;) add more later

[SlavikSvensk]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

well said...and i do like proper hard techno done right, but other than that, i'm on the "new techno" side...though for me that means in part capturing what i feel has been lost in recent years...

[dan the acid man]

i like both of these scenes then, i love hearing good party, made for the floor material, but i also love listening to experimental, or more emotional pieces of work.

i suppose this comes from how i got into techno, i started off listening to plastikman and progressed into the party sound of london techno.

now when i finally sit down and start getting into writing again (im starting this weekend), im hoping i can delve into both of these areas.

well thats the plan anyway

[fatcollective]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

techno music is made for people to dance to!

what if the track is really muiscally produced but doesnt make people dance? is this still a good track?

[loopdon]

I don't hear music the right way when I am on drugs to be honest.
I actually feel better, I'm almost a month in sobriety.

homie, u mean smoking as well? respect :clap:

[acidsaturation]

I kind of see two things in techno.

I love the music and want to see boundaries pushed there to be the most headwarping, emotion mangling, power and wierdness around. I do agree on the idea of more live instruments, maybe live playing of synths, definately the idea of live drums etc. And also on really pushing what can't be done live - that's what the technology's for.

Some "joe averages" will be able to appreciate something musically amazing even if they don't quite get it. Some people (maybe like holotropik's mate) will not see the genius in something but like it 'cos it sounds good. Some people of course won't see any value in anything they don't know or hear already and will think we're all wierd kind of beard-stroking-noodling-"oh-wow-the-reverb-on-that-blip-is-sublime"-types for pushing boundaries. I don't really care about that side.

Sometimes I try to push boundaries and experiment with my tunes, sometimes I write a tune I know other people will like - I made a cheesy as hell nine inch nails remix type tune for someone special and she loved it which gave me big satisfaction, and sometimes I'll just write something straight up, maybe staid and all heard before that I'd love to hear on the dance floor when I'm so f*cked that I just want something I can recognise.

I think it's a shame that sometimes people seem to act like there's not room for all of these in the "scene".


In a way though what has always been more important is that techno is - as the title of this post, (whether that was the context offered or not)- a movement. For me it's a big F U C K YOU to the people who would love to control the music we listen to, the places we party, the drugs we take or choose not to. Techno (or much of it) was always DIY. It's spread into the mainstream now and I'm not going to get into the whole "underground" debate again 'cos I don't care and can't be arsed with where the boundary between mainstream and underground is and who's sold out and all that bollox, but what's most important to me is that when the licensing laws say "oh no you can't do that here at this time in the morning", when the club you've used for years suddenly gets taken over and says "we don't have techno 'cos no-one buys beer" we just move into a warehouse, a field, even the park in Leeds and say "F U C K YOU we're still gonna party". Even 20 people in an old trade warehouse in the arse end of Leeds 6 the other week means more to me than arguing whether the music's gone stale.

I just :love: techno.

[Fordy]

Definately want to see more live elements added to techno. The idea of live techno would be amazing, the possibilties and doors opened with it would be really interesting. Id love to see a side of techno branch off like this.

Techno to me is going in quite a few different directions and im into alot of the sides to it, but at the same time I listen to alot of tunes coming out and they are doing nothing for me atall atm. It just seems to be lacking originality and alot of stuff has become stale. I dont know what im looking for, but right now I cant find it.

You have the artistic, experimental side which I love and want to see producers push furthur with it but never forget what this music is about, the party, going to a club and dancing your ass off to awesome club music.

But the idea I really want to see evolve is the live side of it. I think the likes of Vitalic, The Hacker & Carretta are heading in the right direction with the electro/trashy punk like stuff, it has the attitude I want to hear. I know some people may turn their noses up at this but still. With more added live elements, this will be a style to blow up big if its not going to already.

I want to see this grow, I want live punk like techno bands, using all technology has to offer, creating immense, creative, boundary pushing music whilst having a voice and more importantly a face.

The faceless dance white label record thing has been done, people have got bored of it, time to move on.

Dance music seriously lacks proper bands, especially techno just something personally I want to see more of because day by day im getting more into punk/electro/live band stuff.

[Mirsha]

I think techno si going all over the place, and who really gives a shit as long as you can find what you are looking for?

I know too many people that will dismiss most things under 145bpm which doesn't conform to a 4/4 basslines, people who will diss Subhead, people who don't get Jerome Hill, people who complain music is too fast or isn't hard enough

**** them all really. Sorry my chums but each of us has our own sound we like. We like it. Other people don't. We could have a general election about it but it would all be a bit tedious wouldn't it?

I find in the techno society above all others we seek out our secret desire and don't put up with shit. **** what other people are doing but as long as we can find enough of that filthy shit we want we'll be happily found with Cheshire grins on our faces in our local haunts scaring the shit out of people who don't really know whats going on.

[SlavikSvensk]

Hmmm. Maybe its been done before but one of the things I would like to see in Techno is removal of hand claps and high hats...

even though we disagree most of the time, i have to say...i think that's an excellent idea. producers need to be willing to not rely on what they think tracks "need"

[holotropik]

I like what you had to say Fordy. I concur & will expand on this.

Techno is faceless. There are DJs who play it, yes. But a vast majority of people are getting bored of this. They want to see an artist PLAY it to them, they want to put a face to the sound they love.

When the DJ first came into the public eye it was great. They brought some great new sounds and vibes to many. Many of these people thought (and some still do) that the DJ made that music he was playing, somehow. Now that most people are aware of what the DJ does its all a bit boring to them - there is no personality behind the music just a strange unknown producer no one ever sees.

Live techno IS fast becoming important to the punters. Even people who know nothing of techno are surprized by the lack of the artist element in the presentation of the music. The artist is the key to the evolution of this music. The DJ is simply the deliverer of the goods - not the creator. Some DJs do both (but not very well and thats why you have too many hand-claps and high hats or similar sounding tunes).

[dirty_bass]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

techno music is made for people to dance to!

what if the track is really muiscally produced but doesnt make people dance? is this still a good track?

That`s where you are wrong.
Techno has no limits, and to say it has to be dance music, places walls around it.
What I`m talking about is, that there seems to be a split, between techno, that uses more obvious hooks and grooves, that we all know work. There are several types of beat within the 4x4 that occur again and again.
And techno that is more of an exploration of music, and almost, the dance factor is accidental.

[dirty_bass]

I`m not sure what my point in this thread was to be honest. So here are some further thoughts.

They just are my thoughts and opinions, so please don`t jump up and down about them.


To me, techno was and should be a music that stood on the edge of commercialism, sticking fingers up to mediocrity and predictability.
Kind of acting as the leading edge of future music.

Certain modes and types of techno, have become very predictable and very unadventurous, using the same hooks and tricks again and again. The excuse used by a lot of people is "yeah, well, it rocks the crowd though"
Now when I hear this, I just think - Well, yeah, but so does Britney, and so does a lot of pop music. Using certain predictable hooks and tried and tested tricks again and again.
So in a way, I find it hard to define the difference, when a statement like that is made. The only way you can judge it using those parameters, is by asking which rocks more people?
Well, britney does. She rocks to bigger crowds than any techno bod.

the point being that when the music just becomes about crowd pleasing, or who can get the most bodies jumping, or shift the most units, then it`s no better than the music it stands against.

Personally it`s a dilema as I wanna make people dance, but at the same time, approaching the creation of a tune within a dance music context, instantly places constraints on it. And to me, music that is constrained, has no future.

I`m not really sure of the point I am making here either, these are just more of my daily thoughts.

It`s a difficult subject to take in, because techno is such a subjective term. I was speaking to people today from my girlfriends work, and they were asking about my music, and as soon as I mentioned techno, then 2Unlimited were mentioned, or doof doof doof doof
So it means different things to different people.

I guess I`m just really itching to explore the limitations of the music, and myself, and these kind of thoughts and questions are just a part of the process.

[fatcollective]

Fair play Steve, you have very high standards and this is good. But at the end of the day techno music is made to rock the crowd, no matter how musical the tune is, if it don’t rock the crowd….why will djs buy the record?

Producers make predictable music because they know it works and this is important ...pushing musical boundaries will happen and certain producers are constantly doing this and others will follow no doubt. But really our music (techno) will slowly progress as time goes by. Go back 10 years, our music has changed, so many people are at it these days and so many people are trying to be different. It just takes time for people to adjust to newer sound...the people that judge our music are the clubbers, the ones that dance to our music, live our music and buy our music...everything will progress and I suppose its down to artists like yourself, Dave the drummer, cave, etc...who are really pushing newer sounds out there and other producers will follow the new trend and this way techno will evolve in its own time. Sorry to ramble on but really, I think the techno of today is as good as it has ever been and it’s getting better everyday ;)

and btw..who gives a **** about britney... :lol:

[Fordy]

Subjects like this are always so hard, because being honest techno, what techno is/wants to/should be completely confuses me, same with all electronic music, its out of control because the ways in which it can go are limitless. This where the faceless subgenre's, artists and sounds come in, its hard to identify with things and it becomes really annoying. Its a double edged sword, the thing that makes electronic music so great ie being able to constantly change and evolve is the thing that holds it back.

But the misunderstanding of techno really gets to me, I want more people to understand and enjoy it. Other forms of dance music are purely made to make people dance, pure club/party music. Techno can do the same but it a completely different way, its more of a journey of emotion that a good dj will suck you in and take you with their sounds. Techno can be more than just dance music though imo, its sonic art but with that it brings pretentiousness and it also holds the music back so much because so many fans and producers are stuck on the past ideas of detroit.

Its confusing, techno can be the best club music in the world but because its more than that is what attracts people to techno in the first place imo.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

i think you guys are looking far to deep into this subject, your trying to giving techno an almost sense of being 'fine art'. as though every song has to have meaning and provoke emotion. You remind me of my lecturer's off my old course, who would spend hours debating over the meaning of a photograph, when in reality its just a nice picture.

If you wanna give your music meaning and ethos then do it, if you wanna make dance floor stuff then do it. There's enough sub genre's within techno without creating anymore.

[SlavikSvensk]

i think you guys are looking far to deep into this subject, your trying to giving techno an almost sense of being 'fine art'. as though every song has to have meaning and provoke emotion. You remind me of my lecturer's off my old course, who would spend hours debating over the meaning of a photograph, when in reality its just a nice picture.

If you wanna give your music meaning and ethos then do it, if you wanna make dance floor stuff then do it. There's enough sub genre's within techno without creating anymore.

look back to techno in its early days. those guys did not know what they were "supposed" to be making. there WERE no subgenres. yeah, the music sounds primitive now (in some ways), but it was free and not afraid to try new things. techno is just so institutionalized now, and the subgenres are to blame. "i only listen to schranz" or "i make uk acid techno." fine and dandy as personal choice, but these are limiting choices. the fact that most people choose to make these explains why so little techno has any mystery, any exuberance, any ambition.

so i'm 100% with steve about the need for a movement within techno of people who consciously push themselves beyond the narrow confines of subgenres and writing music for an established audience.

this must be the millionth time i've said this, but people should just make music, and stop thinking about having to do it this way or that way. or trying to sound like a producer they like. so maybe you'd end up with a hard techno track anyways. fine...but i bet there'd be at least one element in it that would be new or atypical...like an off-meter beat or unique synth stab.

when i hear records like that (and there are some, but not a lot of them) i get that same feeling i had the first time i heard "sheet one" or "the wipe." that's what techno needs more of, IMHO.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think you can look too deep.
Music is an artform. It is one of the gifts of higher and evolved brain function.
Yes, you can make music purely for the dancefloor, but my point is (and I`m not really saying anything against it), when it just becomes about that, then I don`t see how it has any separation between the latest kylie number.

As for the comment made

Producers make predictable music because they know it works and this is important
Well surely doing this is just as bad as westlife bringing out another cover of a ballad, because they know it works.

.the people that judge our music are the clubbers, the ones that dance to our music, live our music and buy our music.


.the people that judge our music are the clubbers, the ones that dance to our music, live our music and buy our music.

I think to keep the music alive, then we need to be thinking outside of these confines. Because these people aren`t buying the music. MAybe in a way the more loopy sound is so geared towards DJ`s, that most music listeners just aren`t interested. this doesn`t really concern me too much, as I`m really not into the loop department anyway.

I think maybe the point I`m trying to make, or the point I`m coming too, is that people could do well, to remove their blinkers and look outside the world of techno, and whatever club they go to regularly.
The music isn`t that underground, or cutting edge as a whole.
I see more innovation, more risks, and more cutting edge sounds in Hip hop these days (and more sales too, so they aren`t freaking people out)
Looking at things purely in a DJ context is also limiting the audience.
I think the structure of techno panders to the DJ too much. I mean, it ain`t hard to mix 2 records of similar tempo together, so to make it even easier by being overly predicable is just pandering to the DJ rather than the music.
It`s not that difficult to try new things when making music.
Rather than reaching for that old classic 4th and 7th beat percussion hook, search for a new modes etc
Try using non 909 kicks
Don`t use claps
blah blah
It`s the records that do break from the norm, that everyone remembers.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

Try using non 909 kicks




agree with you there, the 909 was a great drum machnie but it should have been relagated to the history books a long time ago. i know it helped create techno into what it is, but im a bit sick of 909 & 808 samples.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

i just think there is too much 'philosiphising' about techno by people on this forum. There will always be people who leed and others who follow. There will always be a select few who will constantly strive to lead and innovate new ways. and there will always be many more who follow and imitate what they have achieved. Its not just techno, or even music where people are churning out repeatative stuff. The graphic design world is another prime example. How many adverts, flyers etc have you seen that a)stick to a formula or b) are ripping someone else off. There are a few people at the top of the design world that are being innovative and creative, and there are many more who are copying.

Within any creative medium your gonna get people sticking to a formula, just because people are involved in a creative subject necerssarily means they are creative.

[Evil G]

i think that formulas and bags of tricks can be a problem in any kind of music, including emotional music. listen to the soundtrack of any hollywood movie. they all use the same very safe and predictable tricks, but they still make the audience cry at the right time.

i think it's impossible to get away from formulas, so they should be viewed as a necisary evil, to be used when needed, but not to be used thoughtlessly. most music that i consider "good" impresses on me the feeling that the producer was able to step back from the formulas and understand why they worked in the first place, and build them up into something that is greater than the sum of it's parts, rather than just throwing them in and hoping the formula and tricks will carry the track or give it credibility.

[dirty_bass]

Too much philosophising?
these kind of discussions are important.
What esle are we gonna talk about.
Who`s your favourite DJ?

[SlavikSvensk]

Too much philosophising?
these kind of discussions are important.
What esle are we gonna talk about.
Who`s your favourite DJ?

or "i love/hate schranz"

;)

discussing techno intellectually is vital, as it keeps techno intellectual.

[dan the acid man]

yeah but im thick :oops: :doh: ;)

[Mr Exit]

I wonder sometimes wether there will be any new genre's in techno, it looks to me like we have exausted all creative avenues

Even aphex twin isnt coming up with anything ground breaking anymore

I dont see why this should stop people making, playing and enjoying techno though

[djshiva]

i always find these discussion interesting, mainly because there seems to always be a split between "intellectual" techno and techno for the unwashed masses. why there has to be a split is beyond me. people like to polarize things i guess.

as far as constraints go, i personally find those constraints interesting. i love really far out experimental stuff too, but as far as djing goes, i do like working within a framework.

i remember the first time i ever heard miles davis "kind of blue". in the liner notes, he talks about how the playing in jazz had gotten so far out that melody was being lost. so on kind of blue, the players were constrained by a certain scale, but could improvise inside of that framework. what happened was an incredible album based on certain constraints, but definitely an amazing result.

for me, the interesting thing about djing is that, yes, i DO wanna see people go crazy on a dancefloor. the real challenge is to mess around inside their heads at the same time they are shaking their asses. if i wanna listen to really obscure, esoteric music, i do it at home sitting with a book. but if there is a giant soundsystem in front of me, i wanna rock the **** out. doesn't mean i can't let it move my brain as well, but i do tend to drift if it's too abstract in those circumstances.

i know this is somewhat rambling, and perhaps i can put together a more cogent explanation when i haven't been up for hours moving all my shit into a storage space. ;)

[dirty_bass]

Yeah, I totally get what you are saying.
But in a genral context, the restraints are getting narrower as people focus more and more on sub sub sub sub genre.
The point I`m making is that you can be experimental and still be "average listener/clubber" friendly.

Look at the hip hop world for examples of this.
Even on the real commercial side you had tracks like Kelis` Milkshake, and Missy Elliots Pass tha Dutch, which were by no menas conforming to the rules of commercial hip hop, and they still sold millions and rocked the floor.

The problem comes partly from apparent peer pressure too.

I think people want to fit in, are a little scared by reaction to try new things.
Also there`s a lot of idolatry and emulating of heroes, so aspirations are just to be like someone else rather than to stand apart as an individual.

I`m not saying people should start using morphic time signatures, and full orchestras to make techno, but the total lack of any adventure or attempting to break the norm is a little disapointing.

There doesn`t have to be one or the other, but I think, experimentalism can be used in a more conventional "I just want to rock" context, and those who just want to rock, could do with a bit of experimentalism.

[SlavikSvensk]

i don't care what anyone says...missy elliot f***ing rocks. sometimes she sounds more techno than techno.

i think the idea here is not to get rid of all the orthodox dancefloor techno, but to encourage those of us who are looking for something different/more (depending on your viewpoint) to hash out good ideas and maybe even start interactin in some way or another.

local scenes aren't as important as they were in the 1980s or 1990s, because we can transfer information so easily across borders and so on.

detroit had derrick may, juan, kevin, blake baxter, etc. all listening to each other and vibing off each others' work. now maybe we have a cyber-detroit...or maybe we need a cyber-detroit...

[fresh_an_funky_design]

as far as constraints go, i personally find those constraints interesting. i love really far out experimental stuff too, but as far as djing goes, i do like working within a framework.






i gotta agree with you here, i do enjoy experimental stuff, im a big fan of aphex twin, and i do buy a lot of the more experimental techno, but the harsh releality of it is that most of it dosen't work on the dance floor. Your average clubber like's a good solid beat to dance to. Quite often on sundays at free partys i break out all my experimental tune's to break it up a bit and 9 times out of 10 i do a pretty good job of clearing the dance floor. I think dance floor music does have to stick to a formula, however there is room for creativity within these formula's. You don't see bands throwing away there guitars and trying to create new instruments, because guitars work well in rock music.

Whoever said earlier on that they can't see any more genre's being created is being very short sighted, there will always be progression, some new method of synthesis may come out, some crazy new instrument that will spawn a whole new sound possibly sub culture. History repeasts itself!

so what im trying to say is that most clubbers want good repatative beats to dance to. Therefore producers will continue to make it as there is a market for it.

[Mr Exit]

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more

[Joseph Isaac]

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more


Definitely agree...Vogel is one of my all time favorite producers. His old Djax Records were insanity...

[massplanck]

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more

They basically make intellectual techno you can just get drunk and have a laugh too.

[massplanck]

By the way I dont know whats up with this 'new movement' thing.

Someone list their top ten 'new techno movement' records for me please.

[tocsin]

There can never be any new movement in techno for the simple fact that, as soon as something is actually "new," the anal will refuse to call it "techno." :p

[BloodStar]

I think techno is very subjective music and what's techno for you doesn't have to be same with me.. everyone has own view on what is techno, and what not...

everyone should try to break some boundaries in their music and change the view on their music little bit.. sometimes i find very helpful to think about all what i'm doing in the track,,and compare how it would be done by unique musician. techno artist is working and composing alone.. all the things are DIY. in live band there''s letssay 5 unique musicians and each of them knows perfectly his instrument... so he have enough skills to experiment or jam and this can give him some unique results.

i think first is understanding (not just using what i hear elsewhere),,,then experimenting...

comprehensive understanding of music and music theory could help a lot,... to both sides,,, producers,,and crowds,,aswell :shock:

[GothamGrooves.com]

Well art has no definite form, being artistic in terms of prod is awesome, but at the same time kids at a party want to dance. There is always room for compromise, fill your sets with the floor bangers, but give kids music they can appreciate as well.
Thats what its all about isnt it, keeping that balance..

[SlavikSvensk]

By the way I dont know whats up with this 'new movement' thing.

Someone list their top ten 'new techno movement' records for me please.

top ten

can i borrow that time machine so i can go get them? they haven't been made yet...

[Sunil]

By the way I dont know whats up with this 'new movement' thing.

Someone list their top ten 'new techno movement' records for me please.

Yeah, completely.

There's no new techno movement. There is a current techno situation, but let's not pretend something exciting is happening or developing, it's not. It's not to say that I'm not hopeful for the future, I am, but these kind of threads are far too premature and for-the-sake-of-it for me to want or be able to get involved in properly.

I've said it so many times here and it's generally been ignored, unless some new records come and re define where techno is at then there's no point in talking about it.

I think all the philosophy/ what it means to you discussions are extremely boring, sorry.

[dirty_bass]

Ok.

Who`s your favourite DJ?

[massplanck]

WORD. :crackup:

I can understand why people want to philosophise about state of the art techno but at the same time It just completley turns me off . Its all about now. Not tommorrow. Today & whats at hand. Techno didnt have to come under this sort of instant scrutiny before. Loads of ****ed up mad techno/music has been released over the last 10 years and will continue to over the next 100000,00000,000000.

[dirty_bass]

Art always has been, and always will be a part of philosophy and artistic discussion.
If you don`t like it, don`t moan about it, I think I heard get said on another thread?

[massplanck]

Art always has been, and always will be a part of philosophy and artistic discussion.
If you don`t like it, don`t moan about it, I think I heard get said on another thread?

true.

but being anti-philosophy is part of my philosophy if you know what i mean.

[Sunil]

Ok.

Who`s your favourite DJ?

Ooh, that's a tough one. I think we'll need to start a new thread for that ;)

[dirty_bass]

Art always has been, and always will be a part of philosophy and artistic discussion.
If you don`t like it, don`t moan about it, I think I heard get said on another thread?

true.

but being anti-philosophy is part of my philosophy if you know what i mean.
Philosphy is only a poncey way of saying you are thinking about something in depth.

[Sunil]

Art always has been, and always will be a part of philosophy and artistic discussion.
If you don`t like it, don`t moan about it, I think I heard get said on another thread?

Actually, I completely recognise your need or desire to talk about this. I guess I don't always feel like getting into it on that level, I've rarely felt it to be particularly beneficial or truly worth it on a messageboard. Maybe I'm just pretty clear in my views a lot of the time, and I don't want to read and dissect other people's, I dunno? In saying that I do learn from what other people have to say, maybe I'm not interested in wanting to sometimes, requires too much extra attention or time, which I don't always have.

[dirty_bass]

I`ve been within an artistic community in one form or another for a lot of my life, so discussion on this sort of level has always been there.
I do however understand that not everyone is into the artistic/philosopihic side of music as an artform. But it is a part of the ongoing process of creative developement.
Although nothing is more important than experimentation in this respect.

The thing about this thread is that a lot of people here haven`t really read all the posts, and have just reacted to the word experimentation, as if means hang upside down and make techno with a conductors baton stuffed up your nose.

All artists should experiment. How far you go away from the Herd in terms of what is acceptable in the parameters of Dancefloor Techno, is up to you.

But a lot can be learned from going waaaaay off into crazy experimentalism, and then applying what you learn in a more acceptable techno format.

Not everything you make needs to be released, to experiment for the sake of exploring capability and form etc, is very healthy for a musician.

Another point I maybe think, is that to only listen to, and then only produce techno, is very unhealthy.

It`s like the Rednecks living up there in the Ozarks.
"My mother is my Sister"
Look at the state of some of them.

In-Breeding stagnates and retards the system.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

But a lot can be learned from going waaaaay off into crazy experimentalism, and then applying what you learn in a more acceptable techno format.

.


agree with you there, i find making stuff that isn't techno or is experimental in some way really helps me when i get back on to making techno. Also drawing influences from outside of the techno spectrum helps as well. It is very rare for a techno tune to inspire or make me think creatively about making a new tune. However listening to other genre's such as hip hop, electronica, breaks, house etc very often inspires me to get into the studio

[massplanck]

Another point I maybe think, is that to only listen to, and then only produce techno, is very unhealthy.

In-Breeding stagnates and retards the system.

aha. but we understand this inheritantly. maybe just dont understand if some people dont. it just seems normal to me.

[dirty_bass]

[quote=dirty_bass]
it just seems normal to me.

Inbreeding?

You got anything you`d like to divulge about your families past?

[massplanck]

[quote=dirty_bass]
it just seems normal to me.

Inbreeding?

You got anything you`d like to divulge about your families past?

:lol:

[Mr Exit]

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more

They basically make intellectual techno you can just get drunk and have a laugh too.

I dunno, some of their stuffs well made for the dance floor, hard as nails dark as f*** s***

They really twist the grooves to make proper funky s*** as well

[j_s]

to me, any purposeful action is made in the pursuit of pleasure/enjoyment.
in this way, when i try (struggle) to create, i am in search of the same satisfaction as when i, say, go out and get ****ed and stomp to 10 year old acid techno.

the way i see it, they're just different ways of achieving the same thing...

i think art is a form of entertainment and vice versa.

[SlavikSvensk]

i like waxing intellectual about techno because the more we discuss and debate, the more ideas we share and (hopefully), the better our music becomes...

...i mean...maybe someone gets inspired by this and makes something unique instead of a purpose maker/adam beyer clone record...

...maybe this thread gets locked because the idea of "new techno" is too controversial and the loop-o-philes counterattack. :shock: :shock:

[Sunil]

i like waxing intellectual about techno because the more we discuss and debate, the more ideas we share and (hopefully), the better our music becomes...



Hmm, I'm 50/50 on this one.. sometimes I could be doing music and instead I waste time here, it's hard to call. Talking here has never inspired me to make 'experimental' music/techno. Actually *wanting* to make something more experimental, enjoying doing it, or being so pissed off with the shit techno that's around... are good reasons to make something a bit more challenging or interesting. It's down to people's own mindsets and how they actually view techno, what they want from it, and whether they want to make a contribution.. that's what seperates the good from the eh.. boring.

[Mindful]

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

[Sunil]

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

[Little Fella!]

Hello there...

i've just signed up so this is my first tentative mooch into the discussion arena!
To quickly introduce misel, I am a member of the London Techno Collective along with Steve D Bass and the team...
Ever since I moved to London 4 years ago and discovered the Techno scene down here I fell in love with it and it became my ambition to be a part of it..
I then met Steve and have since had the luxury of his expertise in the production side of techno. Seeing what Steve has achieved since having listened to his first release "Emotional Soundscapes" before it was even pressed, and also noting that Dirty Bass Records had completely it's own sound, I was inspired to learn properly how to produce and see what I could come up with.. - Proof is in the pudding on that one!

In relation to this discussion, I think there is a lot of frustration out there - we all want the techno scene to be bigger than what it is at the moment and are trying to find ways in which this can be achieved...

On the one hand there are those of us sayin that things aint right! n on the other we're sayin chill out, relax a little and enjoy what u can from what techno has to offer at the moment....

Perhaps if we become a little bit more sure of ourselves then things will start to show up in a more positive light...

What ya fink?

[SlavikSvensk]

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

it's crap and, with a few exceptions, its been crap for years.

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out? how different is the average techno record from the average record in 2000?

this is EXACTLY why it's worthwhile to be discussing techno intellectually.

[holotropik]

....someone said there aint a new movement.

you cant see it yet.

from where i am standing there are plenty of new options available with with to deliver a good set of dance music. So many combinations that the mind boggles. Traditionally there was only vinyl. Now there are limitless options to use (combination of vinyl, CD, Hardware and PC). It would be wise to take advantage of these options in order to gain a competitive edge and stand out from the plethora of standard end-to-end style DJ mixing. Remember people are growing tired of this overload.

As for production there is also a tide change. Labels tend to stick to formulas that work in order to avoid the risk of releasing something new that doesnt sell. Pure business sense that is valid. The punters react to that albeit they are turning away and new people are not attracted due to the "all of it sounds the same" attitude - and rightly so. Just as in any other form of music this "proven" formula approach is loosing faith with people.

Now dare I mention it, but, the digital distribution of music will change this formulaic approach. The punter or consumer (ie: DJ) will decide what works and the artist (and associated management or crew) will have to seek out potential distribution points and develop an individual market. I reckon you wont see big budget marketing hype in the future as the price of per unit sales will be tighter, as is already evident and the music will be more home grown as recording budgets also suffer. It will have to come back to performance and dedicated long term pursuit of an audiences ear. The result of this hopefully will be closer allies between DJs, artists and promoters as they form more powerful movements - hence unity and no more of this in fighting.....positive?

If i was a commercial DJ i would be worried about my future because there will be less money to push commercial remixes onto radio stations also. Therefore they will have to seek out music once again rather than take kick backs from the major labels to push their shit tracks. It will be interesting to see how Ministry of Sound handles this all???

I am rambling on now....but you get the point of what I am trying to say. The whole industry is in a state of change so to think that nothing is happening is rather naive. It would be better to just push in a new direction and not really care about what is "cool" or acceptable. Carve out your space and stake your claim and do the hard yards so that you can develop your own market.....if thats what you want.

[viagratek]

:clap:

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

who :eh:

[Komplex]

word Glen.

I've been looking at it from that angle too.

The next wave is building.

Many will be left behind.

Many will ride it.

[Komplex]

Oh, just to add...

Techno is not even at the front of the new movement this time round which is REALLY REALLY sad :(

But we'll see what happens over the next few years...

[crime]

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more


Definitely agree...Vogel is one of my all time favorite producers. His old Djax Records were insanity...
Vogel never recorded for Djax...

[crime]

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

[massplanck]

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

Does he drive a porshe?

[Sunil]

....someone said there aint a new movement.



I'm talking about the music, not the industry. We all know the industry is in a state of change.

[SlavikSvensk]

....someone said there aint a new movement.



We all know the industry is in a state of change.

that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

[dirty_bass]

....someone said there aint a new movement.



We all know the industry is in a state of change.

that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

and your point?

[SlavikSvensk]

....someone said there aint a new movement.



We all know the industry is in a state of change.

that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

and your point?

whose mine? :eh: ...sunil is talking music, and holotropik was talking industry. maybe those two things are not so separate. you are someone who champions digital delivery, and you also started this post on the possible emergence of a new techno movement, so maybe "new techno movement" artists (yeah, that sounds lame to me too, but i can't think of anything better right now) are also people who pioneer the use of mp3s and other media to reinvigorate the industry...

...or maybe not...i'm just throwing that idea out there.

[SlavikSvensk]

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

Does he drive a porshe?

i sure hope so...

[dirty_bass]

I`m sure as to the exact point I was making with this thread.
I think it has a number of points.
No so much that their is a new movement of techno, but maybe a lot of artists seem to be pulling away from the conventions of techno, but in the same way, are held back for various reasons.

Also that maybe people could do with looking outside of techno now and again.

[Sunil]

I`m sure as to the exact point I was making with this thread.
I think it has a number of points.
No so much that their is a new movement of techno, but maybe a lot of artists seem to be pulling away from the conventions of techno, but in the same way, are held back for various reasons.

Also that maybe people could do with looking outside of techno now and again.

Yes, I definitely think the serious artists out there need to look at alternatives to the club track 12" route, if they have more alternative of different stuff that needs to be heard, but won't sell on vinyl within the techno market as it stands.

Again, I think a good record in 2005 will still stand up and do the business if it's good enough. Punters value a good record... labels aren't repressing all their old winners to beat the band, for the good of their health.

One unfortunate thing nowadays is the common perception techno and the idea engrained in people's minds that the new stuff *can't* be as good as the old stuff. A few good records or a new 'movement' could change that though, and perhaps an element of 'techno' producers just pissing off :)

[Mindful]

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out? how different is the average techno record from the average record in 2000?

this is EXACTLY why it's worthwhile to be discussing techno intellectually.

Spot on mother fu*ker :clap:

[crime]

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out?

Because the moment it steps out of the boundary of what the majority of people call "techno" people don't consider it techno... TBH there are so many different takes on what it's about, I've given up writing "Techno" and now i write what I call "Music", it's this genre that encompasses everything...

[crime]

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

Does he drive a porshe?

i sure hope so...
Who cares what car people drive FFS
and to be honest, you'd be harded pushed to buy a porsche with money made from techno in this day and age...

[massplanck]

Who cares what car people drive FFS
and to be honest, you'd be harded pushed to buy a porsche with money made from techno in this day and age...


:lol:

[Mindful]

you would have to get youself one of them Regis bikes instead

[SlavikSvensk]

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out?

Because the moment it steps out of the boundary of what the majority of people call "techno" people don't consider it techno... TBH there are so many different takes on what it's about, I've given up writing "Techno" and now i write what I call "Music", it's this genre that encompasses everything...

i think i like this "music" you speak of...

[holotropik]

i speak of both artist (firstly) and industry second. There is movement in both right now......look behind you at the next generation ;)

And i too now make just Electronic Dance Music (EDM) and its holotropik LIVE style not one pidgeon hole genre.

i often refer to it as techno because its made via technology. But it is harder to use the term techno these dayz as it isnt very clear to most people what that is - the genre explosion only makes it harder for people to know what you are refering to. When I say EDM they know exactly what i mean and i can explain to them my flavour and they respond to that. If i say Techno they just automatically put an assumption upon it which is often not correct and dont listen to what i have to say.

[The Divide]

I hear personal expression in all good music. A communication of a musical idea, weak music has none of that and is just a cut and paste of other peoples tricks.

DB I respect your philosophising and I’m guessing the point of this thread is to find some inspiration in here (not that I think you need it). The point I think I’m trying to make is that even if there was a new revolution, we wouldn’t find it in a forum

[Little Fella!]

Hello again...

I am aware that at the moment yerz don't know me from Jack, me bein a New Geezer n all, so bear with me...

This particular topic is something that we have been chewing on for ages, trying to figure out what to do next for the common good within the techno scene.

I think holotropic has nailed down our thoughts all in one go!

I'm an advocate of 'the more the merrier'; as in gathering together a group of like minded producers who are around to champion each other, gain constructive critisism and ideas from, and generally be supportive of each others' efforts to better themselves...

By doing this it creates a sense of being part of something good, rather than being out their on your own and feelin the pain coz you're being slated by someone who you have looked upon as your peer..

Surely this is a more helpfull approach to the situation as it allows a more relaxed creative energy in which to produce, thus any new ideas that you have come up with can be listened to constructively...

Sounds all very Utopaic I know, there bein a big wide world out there, but maybe this approach will draw in the energy that is needed to create something new and innovative...

(sorry bout the largest cliche eva there!!)

[holotropik]

I have been fortunate to get rather inside information (from a music lawyer in Australia) relating to the future of the industry. Online distribution is definately stiring things up - which is not a real surprize to many of us who have used this medium for ages now being tech-heads....hehehehe.

basically this means that the game is wide open now. New alignments are forming and new repetoires developing within labels that are totally online rather than the traditional (and expensive) hardware format. For example the label that i am signed to (EDMdigital.com) is amassing artists rapidly so as to form an attractive pool of artists for when the major labels develop online media delivery security and control. As we know majors buy repetoires from independent labels or at least build networks/connections to them.

We also know that the music we are into is now able to be delivered in a myriad of digital techniques (final scratch, CDJ, machines, etc) by a DJ or artist. So it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out that digital IS the prefered format of the future. Look at things like iPod for the consumer market.

As far as online networking goes we as Techno artists are soooo far ahead of the rest in terms of potential and knowledge it aint funny. We know how to use all this stuff and are not afraid to embrace anything new.

We are a global entity know so forming connections on forums like this is alllll goood....if you wanna piece of the future.

coz its here now.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

We're talking about music not the industry fella! Can we stay within the topic. Good but obvious contributions nothingtheless.

[crime]

I always find it really funny when people talk about the "Industry", I mean are you kidding me? does that mean there's a "Punk Rock industry"? I'm sure more punk records are sold than techno and I very much doubt they call their scene an "Industry".. Are you all drawing 6 figure salaries then?

[crime]

And the funniest thing is the people who use this term the most are living in areas that sell the least records.... I mean there's nothing wrong with having aspirations, but c'mon, get real...

[Komplex]

And the funniest thing is the people who use this term the most are living in areas that sell the least records.... I mean there's nothing wrong with having aspirations, but c'mon, get real...

It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

Selling the most amount of records says nothing about quality of output matey.

But thats kinda off topic now and I apoligise for my hijack.

[schlongfingers]

Man be careful, the shareholders may ban you! This point has riled me more than once, if anyone is part of any industry it is simply the 'Music' industry.

Not the '4/4 ghetto techno 127.5 bpm industry'

It's only marginally worse than wittering on about getting 'signed' though.

[The Divide]

I hate 'the industry'

[crime]

It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

who mentioned berlin? Oh you did because you noticed I live there.. generally people seem to think minimal is all that comes ot of berlin, that's like saying only drum n bass is the only music to come out of london, hip hop is the only music to come out of NYC and Ghettotech is the only music that comes from Detroit..

There is actually a lot of good music coming out of berlin right now, of all different styles, Jamie Lidell lives here, Youngman is rocking it, there's the whole breakcore thing, some of the old residents from Tresor like Kreig who's really rocking it...

[crime]

I apoligise for my hijack.
I've just re-read your post, why did you even bother? All you're doing is looking very much like you havn't got a clue what you're talking about, and what's with bringing up Berlin? what does that have to do with anything?
Go and have 10 years working this thing 24/7 then tell me something I don't know...

[Komplex]

It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

who mentioned berlin? Oh you did because you noticed I live there.. generally people seem to think minimal is all that comes ot of berlin, that's like saying only drum n bass is the only music to come out of london, hip hop is the only music to come out of NYC and Ghettotech is the only music that comes from Detroit..

There is actually a lot of good music coming out of berlin right now, of all different styles, Jamie Lidell lives here, Youngman is rocking it, there's the whole breakcore thing, some of the old residents from Tresor like Kreig who's really rocking it...

I was nicely stirring you up based on your previous comments :)

[Komplex]

I apoligise for my hijack.
I've just re-read your post, why did you even bother? All you're doing is looking very much like you havn't got a clue what you're talking about, and what's with bringing up Berlin? what does that have to do with anything?
Go and have 10 years working this thing 24/7 then tell me something I don't know...

:shock:

[crime]

I was nicely stirring you up based on your previous comments :)

Why, do you have nothing better to do that sit on forums all day waiting for something to "Stir up"? is that your life's work?

[Komplex]

sorry if it affected you deeply. chill out a little...

[crime]

no, you're the one who brought up Berlin just to get a cheap rise, why? what relevence did it have? what was the motivation? I don't understand... You had nothing to really say on the topic so why did you bother?

This demostrates why I only go on forums about once a month, because you get this kind of Bull, people so eagar to type but with nothing to say.... give up...

[crime]

what particuarly got me what the fact you seemed to want to imply in some way that I had said "Berlin is the centre"... please show me where I said that.. please do, I look forward to it...

[Komplex]

no, you're the one who brought up Berlin just to get a cheap rise, why? what relevence did it have? what was the motivation? I don't understand... You had nothing to really say on the topic so why did you bother?

This demostrates why I only go on forums about once a month, because you get this kind of Bull, people so eagar to type but with nothing to say.... give up...

look I wasn't going to go any further with this but if it will help you sleep tonight I will answer your questions.

I did it to get a cheap rise because its funny and I'm the funny man and we all had a giggle, especially because you keep going on about it but now its a little sad.

It had relevance because you had a go at people from places that don't release much records, like as if that has relevance to a new movement... and being from Berlin and the amount of boring crap that comes out of there right now (matter of taste I guess but many people agree), I thought it was a bit ironic that someone from Berlin is having a go at people from elsewhere for trying to push something new and interesting. So I made a serious sounding joke of it that has some truth in it at the same time.

This had a lot to say about the topic if you read between the lines. Maybe I should take the time to post extremely well thought out posts which clearly detail everything on my mind but I seriously can't be f#cked doing that because unlike you, a person who has a much higher post count and percentage of posts a day, have better things to do when i'm on the net... like jacking off to porn, cus its so much more satisfying than having an internet argument. Thats what I'm going to do now so for your sake and mine I am not furthering this lame dispute.

Sorry if it offended you and you took it too personally. I didn't intend it to have such an impact on your ego. Let it go for the sake of this forum and feel free to private message me to sort it out if you really need to. Maybe we can drink good vodka in the future and have a laugh about this.

[crime]

It had relevance because you had a go at people from places that don't release much records, like as if that has relevance to a new movement... and being from Berlin and the amount of boring crap that comes out of there right now (matter of taste I guess but many people agree), I thought it was a bit ironic that someone from Berlin is having a go at people from elsewhere for trying to push something new and interesting. So I made a serious sounding joke of it that has some truth in it at the same time.

Hey, no sweat, but have you ever actually been to Berlin? I just think it's pretty ignorant to base a judgment on a place on just a few things you read about, and on this side of the world the joke isn't so funny, because we don't have the same preconceptions about berlin which arn't actually the reality..
I'm not from here, I'm english, but I've been living here for 6 months, and to be honest Cologne has just as much to answer for when it come to the minimal stuff, the only reason there is so much hype surrounding berlin is because Ritchie and Ricardo live here.. I mean a lot of people take the P. of that scene here, I just don't think it's veery fair for some-one who has never been here to try and take a swipe when they don't know what they are talking about, I mean if you havn't been here then you might get the impression that minimal was the be all and end all, but Berlin is as dynamic as any comparable city (Paris, London, NYC), and there's a lot of different people dooing a lot of cool and varied stuff.. Ok, you go on about the boring stuff coming from here, but what about the cool stuff such as Aeox, Youngman, Mascon, and a whole host of other really unique electronic artists?
And what's with the ego bullshit, you think I do this to massage my own ego?
Ok, you got my goat a Little, but maybe we can have that vodka and a laugh next time I'm down under, I suspect you probably know some friends of mine....

[crime]

because unlike you, a person who has a much higher post count and percentage of posts a day, have better things to do when i'm on the net... like jacking off to porn, cus its so much more satisfying than having an internet argument. Thats what I'm going to do now so for your sake and mine I am not furthering this lame dispute.

the first bit is a little personal *throws vodka in Komplex's face*
my flatmate is about to steal my internet back so I should get some work done today, bit silly to make assumtions about my internet usage...

hope you don't go blind mate, do you have one arm bigger than the other?

[Komplex]

all good matey :)

but i'll drink you under the table ;)

[crime]

hopefully provided a little entertainment for those of you bored at work...

[crime]

you know Ben who runs Diatom then?

[holotropik]

Wow!! that was interesting...??

Well, for those of you who have just stepped off Noahs Ark will probably need to get up to speed on the context of what i was trying to say. First read all that i have said in this post in sequence.

Now, let me put it in simple terms.

One must relate to the industry when commenting on a "new movement" in the music. The industry is driving that change because the business is changing due to a new format of music delivery. I referenced the industry because it is part of what we are talking about here REGARDLESS OF DOLLAR VALUE. These changes work at every level. Actually it is more important for an emerging artist (such as me) to consider this when trying to get involved.

When you consider that i commented on the creative elements and the business elements of change i think i have covered it quite comprehensively even if only in simple forum language.

In summary, there are new creative possibilities, new artists emerging and new business opportunities for all of us who want it. The market is global as it is online (digital) and doesnt rely on getting music put on a mechanical format like vinyl - which is all done in Europe or the US at the detriment of other countries who cannot get access to the media format.

Crime....you are way outa line buddy. But, thats your problem.

[massplanck]

Crime I hate to say it but you are pretty good at wrecking the buzz yourself. Someone makes a 'funny' comment and you take it up all seriuos all the time. I could only handle you one a month by the looks/sounds of things. ? Does vogel drive a porshe? C'mon you cant be serious as to take these thing serious. You are probably just riling from the bad old days when certain other people pissed you off.. but dem days are gone.

Now I'm not jumping the gun but you can act just as much as a forum twat as the best of us (including me). ;)

dont hit me.. because i'm a Aeox/Youngman/Mascon/Landstrumm etc nerd.

[schlongfingers]

INDUSTRY, BUSINESS, DELIVERY, OPPORTUNITIES, MARKET, GLOBAL, BLEEEEARGH :doh: :dontevengothere: :dontevengothere: :dontevengothere:

[holotropik]

hahahahahahaha....!

its hard aint it. Oh well, best just to make some toons then. ;)

[holotropik]

something else to consider....

it may be a new movement.....but from Hawtin's point of view....we are just following his lead.

[davethedrummer]

hopefully provided a little entertainment for those of you bored at work...

this argument would have provided some entertainment for me
if only you both didn't write such bloody long posts!!

i got bored halfway through!

anyway......back to the discussion at hand......

[davethedrummer]

something else to consider....

it may be a new movement.....but from Hawtin's point of view....we are just following his lead.

well we are .........aren't we?......i am :oops:

[dan the acid man]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo

[TechMouse]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

[dan the acid man]

im not having a quief/ comb over thingy on my head though

[TechMouse]

im not having a quief/ comb over thingy on my head though
You can make the tea then.

[davethedrummer]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

sorry ....do you mean buy a specific berlin t shirt?
or just buy any old t shirt because they are particularly good in berlin?

help me i am confused ....and its only 1pm :neutral:

[TechMouse]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

sorry ....do you mean buy a specific berlin t shirt?
or just buy any old t shirt because they are particularly good in berlin?

help me i am confused ....and its only 1pm :neutral:

http://www.ubercoolische.com/

[crime]

Crime I hate to say it but you are pretty good at wrecking the buzz yourself. Someone makes a 'funny' comment and you take it up all seriuos all the time. I could only handle you one a month by the looks/sounds of things. ? Does vogel drive a porshe? C'mon you cant be serious as to take these thing serious. You are probably just riling from the bad old days when certain other people pissed you off.. but dem days are gone.

Now I'm not jumping the gun but you can act just as much as a forum twat as the best of us (including me). ;)

dont hit me.. because i'm a Aeox/Youngman/Mascon/Landstrumm etc nerd.
Fair comment mate, I shouldn't post on forums really, it's a bit too close to home for me, in fact I think I'll start a forum ban on myself again, it's about time really...

[robin m]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

sorry ....do you mean buy a specific berlin t shirt?
or just buy any old t shirt because they are particularly good in berlin?

help me i am confused ....and its only 1pm :neutral:

He means this one I think... :cool:

http://img217.echo.cx/img217/8806/hrhasseloffpuppy20vd.jpg

[robin m]

Available from here, apparently... ;)

http://www.linktrader.co.uk/showitem3952188788

[massplanck]

Fair comment mate, I shouldn't post on forums really, it's a bit too close to home for me, in fact I think I'll start a forum ban on myself again, it's about time really...

No worries. A self-ban on the forum can be good for the head though i'll agree.

you'll come crawling back again though i'm sure. ;)

[basslinejunkie]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

sorry ....do you mean buy a specific berlin t shirt?
or just buy any old t shirt because they are particularly good in berlin?

help me i am confused ....and its only 1pm :neutral:

He means this one I think... :cool:

http://img217.echo.cx/img217/8806/hrhasseloffpuppy20vd.jpg

:lol: :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

let me being this back to the subject: crime, others who just joined this thread...do you think there is/should be a "new movement" in techno of people who want to innovate/bring techno back to its roots of innovation?

[massplanck]

let me being this back to the subject: crime, others who just joined this thread...do you think there is/should be a "new movement" in techno of people who want to innovate/bring techno back to its roots of innovation?

I think crime is already affilated with that concept and heas been for sometime if i dare say so...

[SlavikSvensk]

let me being this back to the subject: crime, others who just joined this thread...do you think there is/should be a "new movement" in techno of people who want to innovate/bring techno back to its roots of innovation?

I think crime is already affilated with that concept and heas been for sometime if i dare say so...

:oops: my memory is sometimes short...

[Little Fella!]

I really do believe that to bring about a "new movement" in techno, producers have to be more innovative- there needs to be some fresh ideas out there for people to chew on...

Our challenge is that now so much has been done (and done to death in some cases) that it really is more difficult to come up with new ideas..

the musical genre that we are in is going through a perfectly normal phase.. techno has been around for ages now so it's no wonder that we are concerned and are trying to avoid the dreaded zone- 'end of shelf-life'...

The other challenge is that the established producers who are out there, flying the flag as such, havn't got much time to get into the studio which is where innovation is born- we all know that it is how much time is spent in the studio which directly relates to the level of innovation..

Techno has had some really good times over the years and it will have it's turn once again..

[tocsin]

let me being this back to the subject: crime, others who just joined this thread...do you think there is/should be a "new movement" in techno of people who want to innovate/bring techno back to its roots of innovation?

I don't think this ever went away. I think it's more likely that the people who listen to the music closed their minds a bit more after greater exposure to the music and, therefore, started confusing "innovation" with only music that appeals to their personal tastes. The last thing I would say about techno music is that it has gotten stale and stuck. That may be true for some artists but not the music in general. The question is just whether or not people like where the music is going.

[Mindful]

Our challenge is that now so much has been done (and done to death in some cases) that it really is more difficult to come up with new ideas..


I think that getting people to axcept new ideas is the difficult part.

I dont think that comming up with new ideas is the problem its that not enough djs and producers are brave enough or passionate enough to do somthing with them.

do you think I used the word enough........er............enough :doh:

[Little Fella!]

I agree totally with tocsin and Mindful there.

A 'new movement' needs a new 'platform' on which to work from. It needs an innovative solution, a focal point where it is accepted that new ideas are being tested.

(I wrote loadsa bollocks earlier but I had 2 log back in and lost it all- what happened there?- probably a good thing mind coz it was a long winded way of saying the above!)

[Mindful]

A 'new movement' needs a new 'platform' on which to work from. It needs an innovative solution, a focal point where it is accepted that new ideas are being tested.

agreed

Also we need a group of like minded people who share the same ideas but from different angles to collectivley do this.

The idea of a collective isnt exactly new but with the internet and a way to connect with those people no matter where they are then it becomes more than just a local collective.

[dirty_bass]

A 'new movement' needs a new 'platform' on which to work from. It needs an innovative solution, a focal point where it is accepted that new ideas are being tested.

agreed

Also we need a group of like minded people who share the same ideas but from different angles to collectivley do this.

The idea of a collective isnt exactly new but with the internet and a way to connect with those people no matter where they are then it becomes more than just a local collective.

Hooray :clap: :clap:

[davethedrummer]

its a bloody good lead to follow imo
Yes, lets all move to Berlin and buy T-Shirts.

sorry ....do you mean buy a specific berlin t shirt?
or just buy any old t shirt because they are particularly good in berlin?

help me i am confused ....and its only 1pm :neutral:

http://www.ubercoolische.com/

hahahahaha
i've just checked out that site.
wow , that guy really knows how to bite!

[Little Fella!]

Just to add to our train of thought...

If the concept is then portrayed properly and is understood by the discerning listeners out there, then they will be drawn to it out of pure interest..

This in turn will draw the attention of more producers, who are interested in developing new ideas, which will increase the level of innovative material within the concept...

This should bring about a snowball effect on which the basis of a "new movement" can be founded...

What ya fink...?

[Little Fella!]

So, we've discussed the concept of needing a focal point for innovative ideas and that this will help to bring together a more solid base from which a 'new movement' can become a reality....

Right, well we've been working on this idea for quite some time now, time having been the issue, and have gradually manouvered ourselves into a position where we can get on with things...

We are just in the process of setting up another club night in London, based on the principles discussed. 'White Label', 'Underground City' and 'Dynamics' were only brief affairs because of venue problems- we knew that the concept was working...

This time we will be able to persist...

Also, we have an internet radio stream ready and waiting.
This will complement the club night, which is the creative icon for the concept...

(more after I've had a ciggy!)

[Little Fella!]

It will also allow us to dedicate time to the concept of involving innovative producers globally, which is an essential requirement if we are to get anywhere with this...

I know that difficulties will arise as far as attitudes are concerned, and we may come under fire for decisions that are made, but it is the doing it that is important and any creases can be ironed out along the way...

Anyway, involvement and input is the key to this one, and keeping a positive focus on the reasons for which we are doing this...

My prayer mat is most definitely out :!:

[Jimfish]

I think for anything to happen everyone needs to stop philosophizing about it the whole bloody time, get on with life and just see what happens natuarally.. Often things dont work when you try and think about them to hard, but let go and they all come into place.

[The Divide]

I think for anything to happen everyone needs to stop philosophizing about it the whole bloody time, get on with life and just see what happens natuarally.. Often things dont work when you try and think about them to hard, but let go and they all come into place.

Jim, you can have my babies for that :clap:

[massplanck]

Jim, you can have my babies for that :clap:

He's having mine first.

[Jimfish]

im a mean lean baby machine.. so bring it on!

[The Divide]

Its all those pies he eats

[dirty_bass]

Well, I think things are still getting done.
If we didn`t talk then this forum would be dead.
It is a place for discussion after all.
Or we can all crawl back to our studios like hermits and never talk again.

[Jimfish]

Its not about getting things done, its about chilling out and going with the flow, letting things evolve naturally without the interference of constant deliberation.

I would love to see what would happen to techno if the internet was destroyed tomorrow.. i really do think it would grow stronger, that is somthing that has only just dawned on me really. As the net had grown techno has stagnated and shrivelled. just a thought.

[Komplex]

Its not about getting things done, its about chilling out and going with the flow, letting things evolve naturally without the interference of constant deliberation.

I would love to see what would happen to techno if the internet was destroyed tomorrow.. i really do think it would grow stronger, that is somthing that has only just dawned on me really. As the net had grown techno has stagnated and shrivelled. just a thought.

interesting... its as if the net sped up techno's shelf life and now everybody wants something "new"

[RDR]

Well, I think things are still getting done.
If we didn`t talk then this forum would be dead.
It is a place for discussion after all.
Or we can all crawl back to our studios like hermits and never talk again.

I'm gonna be a hermit

http://www.tarotmarie.com/hermit.gif

Call me TECHNO HERMIT!

[holotropik]

The whole world wants something new...but...they dont know what they want???
There is heaps of new out there but it only last a few days before its cool to say its old....

the other half say that they want things as they always were so they listen to 20 year olds make rock that sounds like it came from the 70s....

???

[RDR]

The whole world wants something new...but...they dont know what they want???
There is heaps of new out there but it only last a few days before its cool to say its old....

the other half say that they want things as they always were so they listen to 20 year olds make rock that sounds like it came from the 70s....

???

I agree, things have gone full circle with those people who make rock music 70s style.

[xfive]

The whole world wants something new...but...they dont know what they want???
There is heaps of new out there but it only last a few days before its cool to say its old....

the other half say that they want things as they always were so they listen to 20 year olds make rock that sounds like it came from the 70s....

???

I agree, things have gone full circle with those people who make rock music 70s style.

Yeah a couple random tunes are quite catchy but its funny how people don't see through all the smoke and mirrors and realize it was all done ages ago....

Louis XIV is a great example... catchy yet ... done..
Holy is their cd cover nice tho :lol:

[massplanck]

People should be just allowed to do what they want.

People who make retro-rock are never going to surpass what retro-rock was when it wasnt retro. If they can live with this then thats cool with me.

[Mindful]

People should be just allowed to do what they want.

People who make retro-rock are never going to surpass what retro-rock was when it wasnt retro. If they can live with this then thats cool with me.


ER..........Word

[Little Fella!]

I think for anything to happen everyone needs to stop philosophizing about it the whole bloody time, get on with life and just see what happens natuarally.. Often things dont work when you try and think about them to hard, but let go and they all come into place.

Hello Jim!!

I think that is a very good point there. The angle being is not to get too hung up on it all. Put the effort in, making sure that you are enjoying the process along the way, and things will happen naturally...

Your quote is actually a philosophy in it's self, and a good one at that!

[AcidTrash]

I think techno si going all over the place, and who really gives a shit as long as you can find what you are looking for?

I know too many people that will dismiss most things under 145bpm which doesn't conform to a 4/4 basslines, people who will diss Subhead, people who don't get Jerome Hill, people who complain music is too fast or isn't hard enough

**** them all really. Sorry my chums but each of us has our own sound we like. We like it. Other people don't. We could have a general election about it but it would all be a bit tedious wouldn't it?

I find in the techno society above all others we seek out our secret desire and don't put up with shit. **** what other people are doing but as long as we can find enough of that filthy shit we want we'll be happily found with Cheshire grins on our faces in our local haunts scaring the shit out of people who don't really know whats going on.


I love you and I want you to have my babies.

[Mindful]

Yeah good post Mirsha

[Little Fella!]

Right, at the risk of getting told off for bringing forward an old thread, (although I don't know what is classed as the reasonable time allowed)...

Just thought this one might disappear and newcomers will miss out on a quality discussion...

The ideas that have been mentioned are still being worked upon...

[holotropik]

Agree Little Fella :)

Me workin hard at the moment and since this (and other discussions) have found new cause and influence to push even further.

For the first time in a long time I am doing "woohoo's" in the studio as I complete tracks. That feeling alone is worth it :)