should local djs/producer aim for a local sound?

[SlavikSvensk]

i think riotsound had a point in the locked thread, even though i don't really agree with him...

back in the day, detroit djs sounded like they were from detroit, new york from new york, berlin from berlin, london from london, etc.

now some of that has disappeared, mostly because of how information flows and the ability we have to share so quickly and easily.

so: should djs/producers try to represent a distinctly local sound or is that impossible, unlikely, or undesireable now, considering the global techno village we live in today?

PLEASE DO NOT INSULT OTHER PLACES/PEOPLE/OPINIONS IN YOUR REPLIES

AND NO MENTIONING "EURODORKS!!!"

[massplanck]

I think Riotsound should just develop his own unique sound and let other NYC people copy him when/if needs be.

[RIOTSOUND]

I do have my own sound... I dunno

I can't believe 4 threads have come of this...LOL

I guess I don't want to keep weighing in on the debate... But if you like check out www.RiotSound.com

If you click on Music... my mixes are in the TECHNO section... DJ name = DESTRO .. dunno, there are actually a lot of good techno and house sets... almost all from the USA.. so maybe it would cool to check out... Maybe not.. :crackup:

[MARKEG]

let's not go down this damn new york riotsound root again, PLEASE!!!

but good topic.

i find the thought of going into the studio thinking 'shit, i must make music that sounds like I come from Leeds', ridiculous. That's simply not techno. You're constraining yourself before you even touch a keyboard. But I do think it is possible to be heavily influenced by a sound that's ppl play in your local area.

The bottom line is that if you're an innovator, then you should be creating your own sound.

[alsynthe]

im into hard techno, if i played the local sound of blackpool id be playin scouse house and hard house which i dispiase.

Thats why ive started my own techno nite in blackpool because no1 else offers anything different its all the same stuff which is highly boring!!!!

i say play what u love!!

[SlavikSvensk]

my own vision of techno was heavily influenced by living in the detroit area in the mid 1990s, and i do think some of the uniqueness of local scenes (like that one) has been lost. and for that i'm a bit sad.

but generally speaking, i think the way techno has globalized has created an amazing set of possibilities and opportunities. i mean, cross-continental collaboration is possible for up-and-coming producers, not just for the big guys. a song can be written in luton influenced by detroit and slovenia that hits it big in melbourne and berlin...not that this wasn't possible before, it's just that now it's likely...

[RIOTSOUND]

No Marc... you misunderstood me.. Kinda

I would never go and think of "what sound to make"

I just feel if you are true to yourself..

You will reflect certain elements of your sorroundings... Not on purpose... but just naturally...

A lot of Djs in NYC have a lot of different styles but there is some New york in all of them...

But when I see a lot of people all going away from the NYC style at once... it just seems like everyone is kinda Tweeking their style to reflect something that they feel is going to benefit them...

So its like you said... They are going into it with some preconceptions... of making music from lets say "Europe"...

Not evryone... But more and more each day

And yes... that is rediculous

[RDR]

This is a local thread for local people tubs!


Im happy to play whatever, to have a local sound IMHO is a nonsense, it only leads to a blinkered approach, besides which we play the 'Game' in a worldwide arena.

Local aint local anymore.

[DJ Becka]

but good topic.

i find the thought of going into the studio thinking 'shit, i must make music that sounds like I come from Leeds', ridiculous. That's simply not techno. You're constraining yourself before you even touch a keyboard. But I do think it is possible to be heavily influenced by a sound that's ppl play in your local area.

The bottom line is that if you're an innovator, then you should be creating your own sound.

I 100% agree with this.....

For me, when I play my music, I feel like a lot of different things influence me. I'm not going to play a certain style because I live in NYC and that is what people think I'm 'supposed' to play. I'm not even from NY originally-I grew up in Philadelphia.....so imagine all the great influences I had from there. I was also on a dance show back in my school days and was exposed to some of the early house tracks from Detroit and everywhere else....didnt think much of it at the time, but I look back and think-wow-this has definitely influenced me in some way. And before some of you go off on the hiphop in Philly tangent, YES-I admit that I too was listening to the early stages of hiphop. Did it inspire me to become a dj though? No. I've even been buying records since the mid 80s-mostly freestyle and early Detroit stuff-well before I even thought of djing or making music....some of those records I still play out after all these years. Just ask some of my friends and they will tell you what a crazy record collection I have. I started djing in college-right around the same time I discovered the rave scene....I thought the music was cool-and it was pretty new to me-I wanted to play it on my radio show because I wanted to do something DIFFERENT than others at my college station-no one else was doing what I did there. I wanted to be a leader-not a follower. My point is, I'm constantly being reinspired and influenced-I love all kinds of music-no matter where it comes from. I go to Detroit every year for the festival because it is a source of inspiration for me-and travel to other places whenever I can for the same reason. Am I proud of who I am and where I come from? Sure! Would I ever pigeonhole myself to one specific thing type of music or 'sound' because geographically that's what I'm 'supposed to' sound like? No- because that is just stupid. Expect the unexpected ;)

[tocsin]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will.

There's a bunch of different ways that can be read. But, most are healthy when applying it to musical expression.

[The Divide]

Satanist :lol:

[tocsin]

;)

[BRADLEE]

Hmm, when I dj I do play more of a latin Flavor here in AZ. Because there is a larger latin presence of people here where I live. But I don't let that affect my production works really, because that's not what I'm into.

I still say just make what you like no matter where you are from. Gotta do what your insides and the voices tell you to do :twisted:

[RIOTSOUND]

I guess the bottom line is:

IF you are true to you it doesn't matter what sound comes out

I think the problem comes about when people do not stay true..

Its not just in Techno...

In rap a lot of rappers employ cheezy subjectmatter and talk about superficial and material things...becasue they have the impression that is what is going to "sell"... In many cases it does... But the music they make still sucks...

I dunno... When people stay true the "STYLES" kinda form on their own without anyone consiously trying to do it...

[The Overfiend]

I don't agree with you RiotSound.
I think your debate has more of a prevelance to hip hop and separation of regional sounds. I don't think it sound be brought into techno based on the facts that techno is just such a universal genre. If that was the case Samuel L. Sessions wouldn't be making damn good latin tinged techno. I know it's an example but I am sure you get my point. Regional sounds limit. And for as long as I can remember the best Nyc dj's were the ones who branched out from trying to stick to a localized sound and brought some diff flavor to the table.
Trust me I remeber robbin' people at Nasa all the time and that's how I got into techno to begin with.

[Stella Boy]

Gotta do what your insides and the voices tell you to do

:clap: :clap:

[SlavikSvensk]

Trust me I remeber robbin' people at Nasa all the time and that's how I got into techno to begin with.

:clap:

now that's what i call old school! ;)

[The Overfiend]

Rfc Cm Mob all day.

[DJ Becka]

Trust me I remeber robbin' people at Nasa all the time and that's how I got into techno to begin with.

I didnt know you used to be a thug, Antonio :shock:

Now that whole image of you as a teddy bear has gone straight out the window :doh:

Just kidding.....:lol:

[Mindful]

Im all for an intergalatic sound

[Mirsha]

Local DJs should do whatever the **** they are into and leave it at that. They'd be a bit shit playing music they weren't really into for the sake of people who wanted to hear a particular sound.

[Martin Dust]

I've always done what the **** I've wanted to, still do.

[dirty_bass]

This is a LOCAL club for LOCAL music!!!

http://onlymagazine.ca/images/60.png

[The Divide]

This is a LOCAL club for LOCAL music!!!

http://onlymagazine.ca/images/60.png

LOL!! I wasn so tempted to do that been a fan

[The Germ]

I've always done what the **** I've wanted to, still do.

exactly :clap:

[tocsin]

I don't agree with you RiotSound.
I think your debate has more of a prevelance to hip hop and separation of regional sounds. I don't think it sound be brought into techno based on the facts that techno is just such a universal genre. If that was the case Samuel L. Sessions wouldn't be making damn good latin tinged techno. I know it's an example but I am sure you get my point. Regional sounds limit. And for as long as I can remember the best Nyc dj's were the ones who branched out from trying to stick to a localized sound and brought some diff flavor to the table.
Trust me I remeber robbin' people at Nasa all the time and that's how I got into techno to begin with.

Dude, the regional shit is in everything. It's not unique to any genre. But, it is always the result of a marketing gimmick. The whole regional shit with hip-hop was a marketing gimmick used to boost sales which some morons took too far. But, regardless, a handful have capitalized on it all the way. The same shit goes with techno only, fortunately for techno, I am not aware of anyone getting shot over an East Hemisphere vs. West Hemisphere rivalry. ;)

[SlavikSvensk]

i don't think there is so much of a local rivalry in techno. i mean, there are people who dig a local sound (which often arise more from a small number of producer/djs making music together, not from some conscious desire to sound like a particular place), and there will always be arguments along the lines of "detroit techno vs. swedish techno vs. uk acid techno vs. congolese schranz vs whatever," but now i think these labels are all pretty much existential...

...you don't need to be from detroit to make detroit techno, for example...

[tocsin]

Try getting bookings as a hardcore DJ and you will see some serious rivalries.

[Patrick DSP]

in the past, it's easy to have a local sound, and to go GA-GA over international stars for bringing in new and unheard of music to your local club. but the internet and the bubble bursting has make distributers look far and wide to get their music everywhere. and on line shopping and chatting has closed that gap more. no longer do we have to sort through 100000000x vinyls at the local shop to find what we need, we can scan through each mp3 and database on our internet and order exactly what we want. it's both a blessing and a curse. this is why it's not like it was before. people that change and adapt and learn to stay ahead of the game, will do that. people who argue about changing and accepting what's going on will fade away. play your sound, play it well, play it better than anyone else.

[BRADLEE]

Try getting bookings as a hardcore DJ and you will see some serious rivalries.

That is quite true right there though. I have a few homies linked with H2OH and they tell me these horror stories all the time.

[RIOTSOUND]

Look...

This is all I am saying..

YOU KNOW HOW THEY SAY...

"People From India are Rude"

You know why?

Because in India the are SOOO many people and its SOOO crowded on the streets.. that to Navigate through your everyday life... YOU HAVE TO BE RUDE...

PEOPLE FROM THE COUntryside always tend to be more "friendly" becasue they have FAR LESS to deal with and they do not need to
"COP an Attitude" to get through their everyday lives

THE SAME Goes for NEW YORKERS... Many people say we ARE RUDE...
But its BECAUSE we LIVE in a HUGE Crowded CITY... we have no choice but to be that way... Thats our natural state of being.

SOOOOO

Are you guys saying....THAT... "in no way" should the sound coming out of any particular City "IN A GENERAL SENSE" reflect the attitude of that city.. I THINK THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE...

I mean... why do they call it... CHICAGO HOUSE, DETROIT TECHNO
Chicago House reflects the attitude of Chicago...

AS FAR as REGIONAL SOUNDS and Hip-Hop

That is NOT a PLOY AT ALL! I REPEAT... Its not a ploy in any way shape or form... LK, you are refering to the EAST COAST vs WEST BEEF... But I would be careful to charecterize it as a marketing ploy... IT was more like a FUED... PEOPLE DIED.... GREAT ARTISTS DIED... that was not a ploy in any way shape or form

HIP-HOP Comes from all different LOCales in the USA and the SOUNDS are ALL Distictly different and EXCLUSIVE to THEIR LOCALES

When someone Starts making a "SOUND" that is DISTICTLY from ANOTHER LOCALE than they are... They Risk losing all Credibility overnight.... I am not saying Techno is that way... But Hip-Hop is that way 100% percent... Shit, 300%

NYC represents one sound such as
GANGSTARR, RAKIM, KRS ONE, NAS, MOBB DEEEP etc...

California is another SOund
NWA, SNOOP, XZIBIT, WC AND MADD CIRCLE, MACK 10 etc

The Midwest Represent another sound completely
BONE THUGS and HARMONY etc...

THE South is ANother Sound Completely
SCARFACRE, MASTER P, MYSTICAL, SilK THA SHOCKER etc...

ENGLAD Has its own Hip-Hop SOUND
THE STREETS and The Garage That they are doing now

So again... I am from NYC... when I play my records...I naturally want to bring the BattleStyle attitude into it... Not because someone told me to... But why the hell would I want to bring something else into it... I am Proud of where I am from and I want to represent that... That is all

Techno is a global sound...YES... But to me... I cannot wholly respect a "Global sound"... A Global sound is a MAINSTEAM Sound... I like Underground Music... Underground Music comes from LOCALES and reflects CERTAIN ATTITUDES... thats why its Underground... its NOT global...

It may REACH a Global Audience.... BUT Hip-hOp From NYC is so Distictly NYC that it would be impossible to ever say it was from somewhere else...

I know Hip-Hop and Techno are very much different but I listen to both so I have a slighty different perspective on all of this than some of you have

[Ritzi Lee]

Hmmm let's think about this.

Amsterdam was always influenced by funk and soul.
But also heavily on the 60 / 70s Woodstock sound.
I think it's not about the records you play.
It's about how you play them out. Maybe I coudn't hear it myself, but a lot of times people tell me they really could hear i'm from Amsterdam.

When I hear the Space DJz or Ade Fenton, you just know they are true UK artists.

The same thing for Jeff Mills; even when he plays too european (by some people), the way of playing just sounds like Detroit.

When you hear Laurent Garnier play, you'll hear a lot of harmony and romance coming by. That's the true French feeling.

And so on.....

Not yet talking about the Italian DJ's.



Some NYC sounds for me: Steve Stoll, Damon Wild, Joey Beltram.
About Joey Beltram: That was somebody who wasn't excepted in NYC, because his sound was too strange and hard. But before it was being populair in Europe, you just can't forget it was invented in NYC. So all the hard techno we're playing now are offsprings of the sound of Joey Beltram. Think about it....

[The Germ]

2nd century, BC. The Hydraulis was invented by Ktesibios sometime in the second century B.C. Ktesibios, the son of a Greek barber, was fascinated by pneumatics and wrote an early treatise on the use of hydraulic systems for powering mechanical devices. His most famous invention, the Hydraulis, used water to regulate the air pressure inside an organ. A small cistern called the pnigeus was turned upside down and placed inside a barrel of water. A set of pumps forced air into the pnigeus, forming an air reservoir, and that air was channeled up into the organ's action.


without that guy we would all be ****ed.

[RIOTSOUND]

2nd century, BC. The Hydraulis was invented by Ktesibios sometime in the second century B.C. Ktesibios, the son of a Greek barber, was fascinated by pneumatics and wrote an early treatise on the use of hydraulic systems for powering mechanical devices. His most famous invention, the Hydraulis, used water to regulate the air pressure inside an organ. A small cistern called the pnigeus was turned upside down and placed inside a barrel of water. A set of pumps forced air into the pnigeus, forming an air reservoir, and that air was channeled up into the organ's action.


without that guy we would all be ****.

AGREED ;)

Just like I said... without Kool Herc .. Hip-Hop and the artform and popularity of DJing would never have taken on the form we see it in today

[RDR]

Gotta do what your insides and the voices tell you to do

:clap: :clap:

I dont know about that chief - what if they'll telling you to

KILL KILL KILL!

[RDR]

2nd century, BC. The Hydraulis was invented by Ktesibios sometime in the second century B.C. Ktesibios, the son of a Greek barber, was fascinated by pneumatics and wrote an early treatise on the use of hydraulic systems for powering mechanical devices. His most famous invention, the Hydraulis, used water to regulate the air pressure inside an organ. A small cistern called the pnigeus was turned upside down and placed inside a barrel of water. A set of pumps forced air into the pnigeus, forming an air reservoir, and that air was channeled up into the organ's action.


without that guy we would all be ****.

AGREED ;)

Just like I said... without Kool Herc .. Hip-Hop and the artform and popularity of DJing would never have taken on the form we see it in today

Nah, i reckon that aint right, someone would have stepped up. in our time-line this is true, without the originators, we would have nothing. But it presumes that without that specific person the 'whatever' wouldnt happen. Kool herc wasnt exactly a rocket scientist, or a rare breed. There would have been someone else, another history perhaps, another way at looking at things.

IMHO i dont spend time marvelling over these people, as if you want a to puch on into the future it's necessary to look at what they did, and then move forward.

@Martin Dust - Good on ya kidda, damn right.

[RIOTSOUND]

BTW...

I am doing a party tonight in New York... If anyone want to come down and check out many diverse styles of Techno...as well as see Many NEw York City Influences in action... Def Check it out!!

IT FREE and 2 for 1 Drinks Before Midnite...
Here is the complete info on Venue DJs and evrything else you need to know

Alex

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=419913#419913

[JohnnySideways]

i think a lot of it is to do with hype/publicity i.e. london acid techno,detroit techno wotever..in the sense that a bunch of people livin in an area want to get thier sound out there so they/someone give it a new name to get a buzz going about it...or summit like that :neutral:

[SlavikSvensk]

i think a lot of it is to do with hype/publicity i.e. london acid techno,detroit techno wotever..in the sense that a bunch of people livin in an area want to get thier sound out there so they/someone give it a new name to get a buzz going about it...or summit like that :neutral:

local sounds developed because people went to the same record stores, played int eh same clubs, and got together to make music.

now people mostly buy records online and can make music together over the internet, so...

[dirty_bass]

. So all the hard techno we're playing now are offsprings of the sound of Joey Beltram. Think about it....

Not so.
I`d think a lot of the hard sounds are down to some people having a rock, thrash or metal past.
Not even beginning to mention the industrial pioneers of the late 70`s and early 80`s
Plus punk for the scid techno lot etc.
Beltram has zero meaning to a lot of people I know who make hard techno, their sound comes out of the free party hardcore, that came from jungle et

[Ritzi Lee]

. So all the hard techno we're playing now are offsprings of the sound of Joey Beltram. Think about it....

Not so.
I`d think a lot of the hard sounds are down to some people having a rock, thrash or metal past.
Not even beginning to mention the industrial pioneers of the late 70`s and early 80`s
Plus punk for the scid techno lot etc.
Beltram has zero meaning to a lot of people I know who make hard techno, their sound comes out of the free party hardcore, that came from jungle et

I'm afraid I have to disagree! :)
Hardcore is a offspring of a parralel between the early hard (Belgium) techno sound of Joey Beltram and the Bigbeat sound. (T99, Praga Kahn, ...)

Hardcore comes from Rotterdam. (1991 / Parkzicht sound)

But Joey Beltram invented hard techno.
That's a hard fact. He was the first one with Energy Flash. (the blueprint for all Euro-techno sounds)

[SlavikSvensk]

. So all the hard techno we're playing now are offsprings of the sound of Joey Beltram. Think about it....

Not so.
I`d think a lot of the hard sounds are down to some people having a rock, thrash or metal past.
Not even beginning to mention the industrial pioneers of the late 70`s and early 80`s
Plus punk for the scid techno lot etc.
Beltram has zero meaning to a lot of people I know who make hard techno, their sound comes out of the free party hardcore, that came from jungle et

i'm gonna have to agree with ritzi to a degree here...beltram (and belgian hardcore producers) were the first ones to inject "hard" into "techno." besides, jungle has its roots in breakbeat hardcore, which itself derives from belgian hardcore and joey beltram, so the roads still lead back to the man (and a small number of others). if someone is into hard techno and joey beltram means nothing to them, that just means they aren't aware of the music's history...

but that, of course, doesn't necessarily mean any of these people are directly influenced by beltram...only indirectly...

and i we are now successully on a tangent!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[tocsin]

The act I heard first that sounded closest to any "hardcore" I like now was Ministry. Beltram had **** all to do with that. I've got no problem with people giving credit to certain artists for certain sounds. But, as people accept a subjective history as a greater truth every day, it really seems that a number of people are willing to give certain producers way tooo much credit towards what they influenced.

[SlavikSvensk]

The act I heard first that sounded closest to any "hardcore" I like now was Ministry. Beltram had **** all to do with that. I've got no problem with people giving credit to certain artists for certain sounds. But, as people accept a subjective history as a greater truth every day, it really seems that a number of people are willing to give certain producers way tooo much credit towards what they influenced.

can't speak for ritzi, but i was not saying that there is one root for hard techno, but that beltram was really the first one to make techno hard (along with the belgians at R&S), which changed techno forever, and that every hard track that comes out afterwards is, as a result, influenced by that tragectory.

if beltram hadn't done it, someone else probably would have. but then we'd have different people at different times listening to different records, and the whole tree of accidental or situational influences would be different...

[Martin Dust]

To be creative you've got to take stuff in, it doesn't matter what that influence is, and by this I mean any and all things in life, otherwise jack would be a very dull boy/girl. While it is possible to pinpoint key moments/tracks, but when you actually think what has take place before said event, well it's pretty deep and a massive web.

I've always been influenced by the sound of Sheffield, the drop forge hammers, rattling trains, the pit wheels and whistles. As well as Cabs, B.E.F, Clock DVA, League, The Future etc - you can hear this in the music of System 23, however if you don't know about Sheffield then I guess you are hearing something else as you can't map my influences onto the music and this for me is the beauty of techno - one foot in the present and one foot in the future. With System 23, we live for the dance floor, the double drop, eyes shut, nearly falling over as the filters and pads kick in, in the dark terror that lives in us all. One smiley face, one sweaty hand shake makes it worth it. After all this time we still live for Friday/Saturday night and that isn't down to one person, its down to millions - from the people who pay on the door to those that shake your ass, they are all connected.

[dirty_bass]

. So all the hard techno we're playing now are offsprings of the sound of Joey Beltram. Think about it....

Not so.
I`d think a lot of the hard sounds are down to some people having a rock, thrash or metal past.
Not even beginning to mention the industrial pioneers of the late 70`s and early 80`s
Plus punk for the scid techno lot etc.
Beltram has zero meaning to a lot of people I know who make hard techno, their sound comes out of the free party hardcore, that came from jungle et

i'm gonna have to agree with ritzi to a degree here...beltram (and belgian hardcore producers) were the first ones to inject "hard" into "techno." besides, jungle has its roots in breakbeat hardcore, which itself derives from belgian hardcore and joey beltram, so the roads still lead back to the man (and a small number of others). if someone is into hard techno and joey beltram means nothing to them, that just means they aren't aware of the music's history...

but that, of course, doesn't necessarily mean any of these people are directly influenced by beltram...only indirectly...

and i we are now successully on a tangent!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Beltrams so called "hard techno" was pussy and girlie compared to many of the eraly industrial electronics. Maybe he took his influence from them and toned it down.
I know plenty of producers who`s influence comes more from metal than from beltram in terms of their roots.
All of this pinning things down to one person stuff is lame.

[eyes without a face]

im really confused as to how people think Beltram has any links with hard techno, especially hardcore...

Energy Flash is so far away from either i cant grasp the argument here?

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah, well, i only agree with ritzi's original statement to the point of accepting joey beltram as one of the first people to make techno hard, and thus a massive and undeniable influence (either directly or indirectly) on what came after.

he's not the only person to have thought of that (the belgians), nor was he working in a vacuum. neither were industrial musicians.

everyone is influenced by what came before them on a given tragectory...

[The Overfiend]

I'll have to concur that Metal & Salsa/merengue brought about the desire to adhere to rhythmic fast paced music.

[Sunil]

im really confused as to how people think Beltram has any links with hard techno, especially hardcore...



There's a lot of old Beltram material you haven't heard then :)

[The Overfiend]

im really confused as to how people think Beltram has any links with hard techno, especially hardcore...



There's a lot of old Beltram material you haven't heard then :)

True
But I still would not concede he bore hard techno

[eyes without a face]

well ive heard alot of Beltram but again, i dont see where the hard techno tag is coming from.... to me its just Beltram, plain and simple, and i would think there are alot more european based producers who've had more of a hand in shaping the hard techno sound we know today, im not saying i know of them because the history of hard techno is not something that im fussed about, im just saying im sure there were others doing more for the harder sound than JB......

for the record i think location and the music one produces, for me personally anyway, bare no relation to each other... u make what u make, regardless of location... sure friends and ur location influence ur work but for me it doesnt have a hold on what actually comes out of the speakers...

[The Divide]

u make what u make, regardless of location... sure friends and ur location influence ur work but for me it doesnt have a hold on what actually comes out of the speakers...

How do you know it’s not due to your social background, your friends, etc that you got into techno in the 1st place? Perhaps had we all be been born somewhere else, brought up in different circumstances then none of it would have ever happened. If we all look externally for influence and location could play a huge part in the identity of your sound or the style of music your into

Well perhaps?

[Sunil]

In relation to Beltram, I wouldn't agree that he is the sole creator of hard techno either but lets be fair, he has been influential in many ways. He's made tonnes of hard techno, many of them classics. I think it's the fact that he had a different kind of energy and funk to everyone else somehow makes people disassociate him with hard techno or say that it's just the "Beltram sound".. whatever way you look at it though, A LOT of it was hard techno.

And as for hardcore, come on? He was a big name on the hardcore scene.

In terms of European hard techno producers shaping today's sound then sure, that's the way it has gone in many respects. We're going back a bit in time here though, when your Surgeons/Beyers/Liebings hadn't even started out. There's few pioneering or well known hard techno producers of the last number of years that wouldn't have a fond Beltram memory or indeed have been influenced in some way.. it's virtually impossible.

[RIOTSOUND]

Listen to Game Form by Beltram on Tresor records...I think its Tresor #033.. or something like that... so one of the earlier ones...

this tune is way different than Energy Flash..Its like that Hard banging, almost owerwhelming sound...so perhaps a more clear association will emerge... Dunno... I can't say one way or the other what's what with Beltram and modern Hard Techno... But if I had to place a bet...I would say weather directly or indirectly...he had a huge influence

Not my area of expertise though..

[eyes without a face]

come on, im not clueless u know guys, i have actually hard Game Form :roll:.... il admit im unaware of Beltrams involvement with hardcore, i did note that im not big on the history, they are questions in my posts, not statements....

i know how i got into techno danny, i went to a club called Voodoo nearly 7 years ago with my mates.... its that simple... sure if i had been brought up in the outer reaches of Mongolia, there is a good, well lets say above average, chance that i wouldnt even know what techno was, but thats irrelevant.... my comment meant literaly, it shouldnt, and doesnt for me personally, matter where u come from, u really do make what u make... id hate to be someone like Surgeon or Regis who are just instantly labelled "Birmingham techno"... or anyone who does schranz makes "german techno" etc etc ...

[eyes without a face]

that should read "heard"

[dirty_bass]

Yep, I know plenty of people who make techno who wouldn`t know a any beltram records, nor pull any influence from them.
Me neither.
Musical inflence is way too diverse to pin it down to one person.

[The Divide]

i know how i got into techno danny, i went to a club called Voodoo nearly 7 years ago with my mates.... its that simple...

ok but say you didnt come from the same background, didnt take drugs, etc

It might not have happened, your tastes mite have been different, what makes you tick would be/could be different.

Funny you should say that about Mongolia, I always thought you was a bit of a Mongol
:lol:

[Sunil]

Yep, I know plenty of people who make techno who wouldn`t know a any beltram records, nor pull any influence from them.


Fair enough, although in the bigger scheme of things Beltram has been as influential a figure within techno as you can get..

Someone making techno that doesn't know any Beltram records? Come on, what rock have they been living under? They don't have to be influenced by him, and i'll take your word that they aren't... but jesus christ, anyone into techno needs to know some Beltram records.. he's one of the kings for **** sake :!: :clap:

[eyes without a face]

Fair enough, although in the bigger scheme of things Beltram has been as influential a figure within techno as you can get

hmmm... very difficult topic this one i think when u take into account the range of tastes on a board like this, so i think the Beltram thing is just gonna go round in circles.... ur comment definately has alot of truth in it, but influential figure wise, well maybe look to the people who came before Beltram techno wise, im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

[crime]

Joey Beltram "Places" (Tresor)
one of my biggest influences...
hard but funky

[Sunil]

ur comment definately has alot of truth in it, but influential figure wise, well maybe look to the people who came before Beltram techno wise, im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

Yeah, techno came from Detroit sure. For me though, I got into Beltram, Mills, NY producers and European producers before I took an interest in Derrick May or the original Detroit crew.. I never really related the techno of Beltram to the original sound of Detroit, it sounded much different; in fact I rejected a lot of the Detroit techno that I started to hear as it just didn't move me the way other techno did. Granted I hold records by Juan Atkins or Suburban Knight as some of the best I have, the likes of "Strings Of Life" or other such classics just never did it for me...

[Ritzi Lee]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

[SlavikSvensk]

come on people! we alol know and love energy flash, but maybe some of you are forgetting that it's from 19-f***ing-90!

http://www.discogs.com/release/2084

listen to it again, and then listen to the stuff coming from detroit and europe before it.

hard techno begins with this record. and no, that does not mean that other forms of music that pre-date it (industrial, some metal, avant-garde classical, etc.) did not play HUGE roles in influencing hard techno...

...but the fact is that none of those things took techno and made it considerably harder and darker than what came before it. and energy flash did.

[SlavikSvensk]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

[eyes without a face]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

i didnt say anyone was did i? No......

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)


thanks ritzi this is what i was looking for ;)

[FUSION]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

im defo not never heard of him, silly name mind :lol:

[tocsin]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

Didn't Acardipane write "We Have Arrived" in 1989?

[SlavikSvensk]

i didnt say anyone was did i? No......


okay, i misunderstood what you meant there...
:cool:

[Ritzi Lee]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

Didn't Acardipane write "We Have Arrived" in 1989?

That was in 1991.

[tocsin]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

[SlavikSvensk]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

might have, but energy flash is still year zero for hard techno (in the broadest sense of the term).

[djshiva]

locutus actually is doing an ep based on this idea actually. since he is from indiana, moved to detroit, then belgium, then st louis, then japan and now back to indiana, his question was how much of his sound is influenced by his surroundings, and can any genre of techno in this information age REALLY be site specific, or is the geography really kind of all in your head?

i for one tend to think that techno has become so international and so border crossing (which i love because i truly do not believe in borders as anything other than political tools), that location only influences the music insofar as it affects you personally, and less on a specific sound or style.

i also think that if you happen to live outside of any of these major urban centers or just in cultural wastelands like indiana (USA), then you are more influenced by the ABSENCE of similar music around you. some of the freshest art, music or poetry i have heard comes from places where there isn't a highly developed scene or style.

rambling tho that was, i hope i got my point across. need caffeine...

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah indiana sucks! my least favorite state in the north...

...anyways, nice one brining it back to the topic...

big cities can become too scene-y...too much competition and too much in fighting.

but scenes often start as a small number of creative people who hang out and then go make music...look at stockholm in 1996...then it blew up and we have swedish techno as an established sound...

[Ritzi Lee]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

Don't know about that actually.
But from the Dutch point of view Hardcore was inspired by the New Beat sound from Belgium. Tapes from Jade4U, Praga Kahn, T99, Trance Trax, 101, Space Opera ...

And before that there was the EBM (Electronic Body Music): Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, etc.

"Rave Alert" of Praga Khan in 1991 is a typical example of a track that inspired people like Paul Elstak, DJ Rob, to create the hardcore / gabber sound.

[tocsin]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story. People can credit Beltram with starting hard techno. But, there were other people doing hard techno at the same time. So who's right? Not saying that Praga Khan may not have had an influence in rotterdam. But, that would probably be in the poppier synth work than the dirty kick drums. Dutch/Rave style synths were also noticably absent from a number of hardcore tracks. So what influenced them? Beltram? Elstak? It's not like Elstak was the first to run drums through distortion. ;)

[SlavikSvensk]

looks like our history argument scared off riotsound...

[massplanck]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story.

:clap:

Goldilocks invented techno.

[SlavikSvensk]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story.

:clap:

Goldilocks invented techno.

no she didn't, it was the bears!

[The Divide]

....but lets not forget Hansel and Gretel

[tocsin]

In that story, I'm just trying to figure out what guy would best fit the role of Pinnochio. ;)

[SlavikSvensk]

In that story, I'm just trying to figure out what guy would best fit the role of Pinnochio. ;)

joey beltram? :dance:

[massplanck]

:lol:

[Ritzi Lee]

In that story, I'm just trying to figure out what guy would best fit the role of Pinnochio. ;)

joey beltram? :dance:

yeah :lol:

[Ritzi Lee]

It's not like Elstak was the first to run drums through distortion. ;)


please be 100% sure that you are right about this. ;)

[tocsin]

Dude, people distorted drums long before "gabber" existed. Either way, the biggest problem I have with giving people credit with that is because it's a mix of technology, not a signature innovation gained through practice. Someone takes a TR-909 by Roland and hooks it up to a guitar distortion pedal made by another company. It's not a truly personal touch/innovation at that point. Hell, before I was even into techno, I was running a drum machine through distortion for metal stuff I was doing with a roommate. It's not like we credit the first guy to hook up an equalizer on a 4 track when making music. ;) Due to the technology, it's just something that's bound to happen. If anything, the creator of the technology should be getting the credit. Whether Paul was the first to do it in techno, I don't know.

[SlavikSvensk]

"hard techno...(deep mechanized breathing)...i am your father..."

[RDR]

"hard techno...(deep mechanized breathing)...i am your father..."

:clap:

This conversation is fun. Trying to pin down a musical historical influence is like trying to herd fog.

remember history is always written by the victors?

[massplanck]

And theres me thinking it was Micheal Jackson who wrote History.

[djshiva]

[quote="SlavikSvensk"]yeah indiana sucks! my least favorite state in the north...quote]

hey now! i can say that, but no one else can! ;) it's like i can call my mom a bitch, but no one else is allowed or i will hurt them! ;)

anyhow, the fact that it is generally closed minded and boring has been really lubricating the creativity here since no one wants to leave their studios to go deal with assholes anymore. there is good music being made right here in the heartland due to the sheer boredom factor. :)

and i had to add that the djs from the midwest USA are still some of the best i have heard anywhere...hands down. i know people will hate me for that, but when you are in the middle of nowhere, you have to be better than everyone else to even get a chance to get heard.

let the hip hop regional battle begin... ;p

[SlavikSvensk]

hey...i have had to drive through indiana WAY too many times...hence my dislike of it! all that corn...all those strip mall towns...dan quayle! ;)

agreed on midwestern djs.

[SlavikSvensk]

Dude, people distorted drums long before "gabber" existed. Either way, the biggest problem I have with giving people credit with that is because it's a mix of technology, not a signature innovation gained through practice. Someone takes a TR-909 by Roland and hooks it up to a guitar distortion pedal made by another company. It's not a truly personal touch/innovation at that point. Hell, before I was even into techno, I was running a drum machine through distortion for metal stuff I was doing with a roommate. It's not like we credit the first guy to hook up an equalizer on a 4 track when making music. ;) Due to the technology, it's just something that's bound to happen. If anything, the creator of the technology should be getting the credit. Whether Paul was the first to do it in techno, I don't know.

i can only think of one solution to the argument between tocsin and ritzi...

...dance off!

[Mindful]

i can only think of one solution to the argument between tocsin and ritzi...

...dance off!

*Breakers revenge starts to play*

[RDR]

And theres me thinking it was Micheal Jackson who wrote History.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[tocsin]

i can only think of one solution to the argument between tocsin and ritzi...
...dance off!

Well, unless the judging criteria would be based on comedy, I likely wouldn't stand a chance in hell. ;)

But, seriously, do we credit the guy who added vinegar to fish and chips as an innovator that completely changed and influenced the course of the culinary experience? ;)

[massplanck]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I havent had the old Five Laughing Smilies in a row for while now. I must be doing something right! :lol:

[The Overfiend]

i can only think of one solution to the argument between tocsin and ritzi...
...dance off!

Well, unless the judging criteria would be based on comedy, I likely wouldn't stand a chance in hell. ;)

But, seriously, do we credit the guy who added vinegar to fish and chips as an innovator that completely changed and influenced the course of the culinary experience? ;)

thats funny!!!!!

[SlavikSvensk]

Well, unless the judging criteria would be based on comedy, I likely wouldn't stand a chance in hell. ;)

But, seriously, do we credit the guy who added vinegar to fish and chips as an innovator that completely changed and influenced the course of the culinary experience? ;)

i think joey beltram is more like the first guy to put mustard on a hot dog

[tocsin]

So is the guy who made that sweet onion/tomato mix sauce like the first "intelligent" mixer of hot dog flavor? ;)

[Ritzi Lee]

What about the guy who invented the plains, rails or computers.
Ehm the computer was invented by a woman though. :lol:

[Ritzi Lee]

And theres me thinking it was Micheal Jackson who wrote History.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Elvis man!
The King of Rock & Roll
Yihaaa!

[massplanck]

[
Joey Beltram's parents invented the who invented techno argument.

[Ritzi Lee]

[
Joey Beltram's parents invented the who invented techno argument.

Not Juan Atkins his parents??

[SlavikSvensk]

[
Joey Beltram's parents invented the who invented techno argument.

Not Juan Atkins his parents??

no, juan atkins' parents invented the sweet onion and tomato sauce you get with hot dogs in the greater new york area. or was it joey beltram's...