The Old Techno Guys - Hmmm - Are They Loosing It???

[MARKEG]

I'm just feeling this recently. Techno has always been about all the obvious guns. The Dave Clarke's, the Jeff Mills, etc etc. Well, I can help but feeling there's a whole new generation coming up, the Wittekinds, the Amok's, TBH alot of ppl that post here on the forum, especially in the production forum section. And this feeling is more powerful than anything I've ever witnessed before.

Do you think that the big guys are just loosing it on the dancefloor? Are they not seeing what is making ppl go nuts?

You know, I played some Ben Sims to 10,000 ppl recently as I was building my set in Eastern Europe, everyone was just chilled, and then BOOM I played some Eric Sneo and christ, the whole party went off (Sorry Ben, that's the way I felt and it's my opinion eh ;)). I love Sims, I love Mills, but to the next gen, I feel the whole old techno sound is just nostalga. The kids ie the future, just don't want this.

And come on, was techno not all about the future??!!!!

Gimme your thoughts..

[Sunil]

I'm just feeling this recently. Techno has always been about all the obvious guns. The Dave Clarke's, the Jeff Mills, etc etc. Well, I can help but feeling there's a whole new generation coming up, the Wittekinds, the Amok's, TBH alot of ppl that post here on the forum, especially in the production forum section. And this feeling is more powerful than anything I've ever witnessed before.

Do you think that the big guys are just loosing it on the dancefloor? Are they not seeing what is making ppl go nuts?

You know, I played some Ben Sims to 10,000 ppl recently as I was building my set in Eastern Europe, everyone was just chilled, and then BOOM I played some Eric Sneo and christ, the whole party went off. I love Sims, I love Mills, but the next gen don't want this.

And come on, was techno not all about the future??!!!!

Gimme your thoughts..

I guess people have been conditioned to a new type of 'hard' techno... Mills, Sims whoever records were really "banging" a few years ago, but it's been taken to another level in many ways, people are now expecting that extra sucker punch that they know is out there.

[Sunil]

As for losing it? Hmm, maybe running out of ideas alright, it's hard to keep it on the boil for so many years... I don't hold it against them though, thir job has been done in many ways.. if they have anything new to add then great, it's a bonus.

[machina]

I think it's pretty specific to the artist in question - the exact same thing happened to sims here in melbourne... he played a pretty clean, but IMO boring and generic set that didn't really have any power behind it and Liebing came on straight after him and made him look awful, not in terms of technical ability, but in terms of power and enthusiasm - i think that's the main difference - many of the big guns don't have the enthusiasm anymore and it comes across in their playing...

that said, mills is still so original in his style that he can rock it - if you're into that sort of thing...

machina

[MARKEG]

no honest, it's not specific to the artist in q. it's for all the old the old guns. i'm not trying to be -ve. i'm just trying to say. there's a new genn of ppl out there. and the sooner we realise it the better....

my opinion ;)

[MARKEG]

but totally respect to the old guys, for sure.

i really hope you see what i'm trying to say here....

read the post again eh ;)

[machina]

well - still, i'm thinking that enthusiasm is the key issue, obviously it's harder for the older guys to keep it up, and it comes across... when you don't love something anymore you should leave it - but for a lot of people it's all they can do to put food on the table, but this compromises the standard of the music, especially if they ain't really into it anymore.

machina

[machina]

I agree completely by the way, a lot of the new names and producing really original and brilliant stuff... i think in the last 18 months techno production has started to really improve and become original again after a couple of lean years...

machina

[Craig McW]

Sims killed Liebing at that party Machina. But let's not go down that path.

Agree wholeheartedly, you see the reaction on the floor when you play something new, that you just don't get from older producers like Sims

[machina]

Sims killed Liebing at that party Machina. But let's not go down that path.

i knew you were going to say that... :)

machina

[MARKEG]

right, but can we get onto the topic???

[Craig McW]

right, but can we get onto the topic???

rightio.

I think they are losing it you know. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

It's a different headspace, a different approach.

Mills is a brilliant producer, and in his time has made groundbreaking music. But everything he does now is a re-hash, and somewhat stale. I have a soft spot for it, but when you play it to people they just don't appreciate it.

However, Hawtin seems to have stayed in form, but then again he's evolved his style. I think that's the key to remaining innovative: evolution. Sims, Mills et al are still kinda producing the same rekkids they did 5 years ago....

[Craig McW]

I also think Sims makes records that are meant for he/himself to play in his sets. They work when he's doing his 3 deck wizardry, whenever someone else plays his gear it doesn't quite have the same appeal.

[machina]

Yeah - but do you guys think that Sims was ever in the league of Mills or Clarke? I don't know, I never rated him that highly - he was brilliant for a while and had a distinct sound... but i don't think he was ever as prolific or influential as a Mills or a Hawtin or Clarke - I think those guys are in another league - and if you drop a brilliant Mills or Hawtin track, the crowd inevitably goes off.

machina

[SlavikSvensk]

but totally respect to the old guys, for sure.

i really hope you see what i'm trying to say here....

read the post again eh ;)

there are, IMO, several issues here:

a) some famous djs/producers lose the plot and just go through the motions in order to keep earning income.

this is obvious, though by no means does it include everyone, or even most old guys. for example, derrick may is one of my all-time favorite djs, but i saw him a couple months back here in seattle and he looked and played like he was bored s***less.

as craig mcw said...some producers do little innovative, and just rehash their hits in less and less compelling form.

b) as sunil said, the old hard isn't so hard anymore.

a lot of people are into hard techno because it's hard. i'm not, so i don't really understand this mindset completely (though i do like a lot of hard techno). but it's like asking a kid into slayer why he thinks megadeth are soft.

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge.

d) finally...mark's point...new producers may be making better records than a lot of the old guys

i'm not convinced that this is 100% true, but i'm putting it here because i think it could very well be...

i know tons of people probably disagree with me on some of these points...

[The Overfiend]

I wouldn't say that the older talents need to conform, but I will say the energy comment may be correct.
naming names though I dunno.
The older heads still have tracks that are timeless and hold up today.
Ben Sims Vs. Rue East - Three Of A Kind still kills.
Jeff Mills - Some of the Waveform Transmissions material still bangs.

[Komplex]

I think they're just burnt out from being famous and don't have the time to sit around coming up with imaginative music anymore.

[SlavikSvensk]

The older heads still have tracks that are timeless and hold up today.


word. step to enchantment will rock any but the sorriest techno dancefloor...

[eyes without a face]

. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

i found that comment particulary well, ill informed really.... Sims has done some absolute gem's over the years and i presume its Carlos Rios u mean there, yeah he's a bad ass producer, but Sim's has done so much for techno over the years the likes of Rios etc can only try to achieve.... even if people are "losing" it now, which i must agree alot of people are imo, thats not to say people shouldnt hold up the legacy that these artists have created before them.... without Sims we wouldnt have half the number of tribal/club producers there are, even some of the more up n coming ones...

i think the bigger artists kinda go through the motions a bit more as they get older and they've been doing the job for longer, travel takes its toll, some rely on older records a bit TOO much etc etc

i wholeheartedly agree about the new skool as it were, but i wudnt class Sven and Amok in there as they are more than established artists now, but some of the the talent on this board is pretty badddd!!!!

thats badddd in a good way of course haha

[LOCKED]

I disagree , i think Mills , Sims, Clarke , Beyer , Carola - all the big guns are still at the top of the game, ive seen them all recently and they have impressed me big time and made me realize that they still love it ! Look at Clarke, he has the option to go in any direction musically he wants to , yet u still here him playing some of the sickest techno tunes around !

[TechMouse]

I think a big part of the problem is attitude.

People like Clarke, Mills etc. seem to treat everything as a chore - and charging the fees they do, and constantly jetting around the world etc. they can be forgiven to a certain extent. It does get silly though.

That said - not so long ago Jeff Mills was paid a very large sum of money to come up and play here in Notts, with his new DVD-J set etc. The contract had no manner of silly little things into it: Jeff must recieve 1000 Euros - in 50s - upon arrival... Chauffeur-driven Mercedes from Heathrow, no music - no talking... etc.

In the end, for whatever reason, he didn't play with the DVD-J's. When the crew responsible tried to rig up some cameras etc. so that they had something to project on the screens, Jeff's manager said "no cameras on Jeff"... To top it off, many people I know said that the night was remarkable only in it's mediocrity.

IMHO the root of the problem is this. When the likes of Mills, Clarke, Sims etc. were becoming big names, competition in the DJ world wasn't so fierce. Play some good tunes, mix with 3 decks occasionally, knock out some decent 12"s every now and then and people will love you.

The fact is that talented DJs are ten a penny these days. You show me one Jeff Mills and I'll point you in the direction of at least 10 equally (if not more) talented DJs - many of whom are registered on this forum, and wouldn't dream of trying to charge what Mills does.

Not at all trying to knock any of the past masters - just point out that it's a different ball game these days, and you have to do a hell of a lot more to get noticed. For more info, see: Jerome Hill, DJ Bam Bam and Pet Duo.

[eyes without a face]

out of Mills , Sims, Clarke , Beyer , Carola id say....

mills - still got it definately, Clarke is still up there always will be for me personally, Sims is the best 3 deck dj in town at the moment, Beyer i think is clawing back a bit of cred with people who got too bored of that swedish sound with the new minimal stuff he's been doing lately, and Carola has never been at the top for me, a good dj but not in the same league as the likes of Clarke, Mills etc production wise....

i think the question is far too literal and really depends on the artist in question... for me one example of someone who has really lost it is Luke Slater, my word people remember the Planetary Assualt work... the last time i saw him he was doing THE worst electropop with even worse vocals... shame....

[G-whizz]

I think when it comes to writing music in general (from my limited experience) it's a time and place thing .. as and example it would difficult for say dave the drummer to write a tune just like one that he did 10 years ago ... its a different now , you look at things in a different perspective.

Now for say Jeff mills and the like what influences do they have ? with all that money and jet setting everywhere as opposed to slumming it like if you decided to go play at a french tek out in the middle of an old run way :)

[eyes without a face]

yeah thats true, lifestyle has an influence on the music u do for sure... its just the same for bands etc ... early songs are about breaking free from their social confines etc but when they get a bit of success, more money, move to a nicer area, their social circle may change and sometimes it results in a change of direction musically, one which original fans fear is not as strong or doesnt have that same emotion...

wikid topic tho must say

[SlavikSvensk]

i'm sure if jeff mills put his heart and soul into it, he would blow dancefloors away like he did in the old days.

now i think he just doesn't show as much passion for the music.

not that this is wholey surprising...a lot of people get burnt out, but the cash these guys earn is enough to keep them going.

when it comes to producers...i see it as a fairly different situation. i think a lot of people get stuck in their ways/stuck in their technology...and it gets easy to make stuff that sounds like your other stuff...

new people are trying to make names for themselves, so obviously are very worried about complacency...

[TechMouse]

when it comes to producers...i see it as a fairly different situation. i think a lot of people get stuck in their ways/stuck in their technology...and it gets easy to make stuff that sounds like your other stuff...
On a similar note, I think that computer-based production "frees" people a lot from the constraints of more traditional technology. For example - I'm sure a lot of people still "think" in terms of the sequencer on a 909 when programming their beats, whereas the new kids will be coming at it from all angles.

[SlavikSvensk]

new technology gives with one hand, and takes away with the other.

you are right about sequencing, but then you have loops and loop cds which result in hundreds of cookie-cutter tracks...

[Joseph Isaac]

All inflated egos eventually burst.

[gunjack]

it's natural. the new generation always takes it further than the last, u kno?

[loopdon]

let's get it done then, homies :rambo: :rambo:

[TripleX]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

[audioinjection]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

[eyes without a face]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

thats open to debate tho, a dj is only as they push themselves to be and i know a lot of very talented young djs, and yeah of course compared to sims or mills they are not the best djs in town, but they dont have the 20 years+ experience that these guys have had, and there are PLENTY of big league djs who are poor when compared to alot of newer, younger djs, never mind the likes of sims and mills....

u cant blame someone for being born 20 years after Mills now can you? if they are trying then thats what matters

[SlavikSvensk]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

:clap: :clap: :clap:

well said!

[SlavikSvensk]

though i DO think some of the old guys have lost the plot...or at least the passion...

[dirty_bass]

I agree mostly with mark.
I think partly it is down to workload.
Some of the big names are playing so much (DJ wise) that they may not have the time to be creative in temrs of personal exploration.
ie the little time they get in the studio, whatever they make in that time, needs to get released, crap or not.
And it also may be partly down to lack of inspiration. When you make the same music again and again and again, it`s not very inspiring, or good for evolution. So the creative passion wears a bit thin.
In some cases, I think just taking a break may help.

[djshiva]

i have always said that hunger (meant in the literal as well as figuratively) is always a great driving force behind creativity. no diss to the old school cats, cuz they brought us to where we are today...but when you are making 5 figures a gig, the hunger just isn't there anymore.

when it truly becomes a JOB (and mentally you see it as a job), then it starts to lose its driving force.

all i can say is, if anyone starts to look at music and djing as a job, go work fast food or a factory job for a week, and you'll come back with a whole new attitude.

the ones coming up now are the cats who are still working day jobs and making music in between. work and everyday crap is a great inspiration to write. i know i have been fairly prolific since getting booted outta my house. shite landlords are great inspiration as well...

[davethedrummer]

older techno djs are exactly that....older.
they did it then ...maybe they can still do it now. ( maybe not)
but without them the genre would not have moved forward to where it is now.
personally i couldn't care less about "hard" techno right now
all the amoks and wittekinds etc etc etc ( only an example not personal ) maybe they make great tunes....and maybe i've just totally lost the plot
( wooooohhhh i'm a hamster!!!!!!let me drive my table!!!!!)

but i don't get it.

when you go and see the rolling stones you want to hear satisfaction right?
does that mean that coldplay are better than them because they are younger?

i don't know
so........so what.....you drop one record at one club...everyone goes nuts...you drop it somewhere else everyone goes to the bar.

so what?

come on mark ..you started it....can we stop just talking about sims and mills and really get a bit deeper into this thing?

have older techno guys really lost the plot.

[tocsin]

Maybe they lost the plot. Or, maybe for the newer influx of listeners who are replacing those who left, the older guys never had the plot to begin with. I used to be more into metal than anything else. I never really liked Black Sabbath and they were definitely before my time.

[Mindful]

I personaly dont think they are
im not sure I could put it any better just different than what this man said

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge....

I agree with that 100%

[Mindful]

But maybe if they cant make the kids rock as much as .....well the kids can then maybe they have lost the plot.

It depends if making kids rock is the plot.
Wich im sure a lot of you will say it is.

[SlavikSvensk]

have older techno guys really lost the plot.

some definately have. some definately have not.

but i think, generally, that techno has grown less challenging over the years, and that has a lot to do with this endless sub-genrefication...it makes tastes narrow and, IMO, grow less sophisticated...

...so you play to a schranz crowd and put on the first killa bite record. maybe they don't like it because they came to only hear schranz. [note: this applies to most sub-genres, or sub-genres-within-sub-genres...not just schranz]

[SlavikSvensk]

I personaly dont think they are
im not sure I could put it any better just different than what this man said

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge....

I agree with that 100%

thanks for picking up on that point...thought no one saw the logic there!

[tocsin]

I agree with that 100%

Well, I can sorta agree with that statement. Only, in my experience, it has less to do with lack of sophistication in the listeners and more to do with DJs who also happen to be promoters that aren't quite as open minded as their audience might be. 6-7 years ago, it wasn't overly hard for me to get a booking where I could play hardcore. Now it's damn near impossible, not so much because I couldn't get a crowd into a set, but because a lot of promoter DJs just don't like it. DJs have the tendency to be anal about what they like and play around my area it seems. Thus, when they pick up the reins that other promoters have dropped, you'll see full nights of the same sound.

[Joseph Isaac]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

Excellent point.

[SlavikSvensk]

I agree with that 100%

Well, I can sorta agree with that statement. Only, in my experience, it has less to do with lack of sophistication in the listeners and more to do with DJs who also happen to be promoters that aren't quite as open minded as their audience might be. 6-7 years ago, it wasn't overly hard for me to get a booking where I could play hardcore. Now it's damn near impossible, not so much because I couldn't get a crowd into a set, but because a lot of promoter DJs just don't like it. DJs have the tendency to be anal about what they like and play around my area it seems. Thus, when they pick up the reins that other promoters have dropped, you'll see full nights of the same sound.

yeah, i agree with that. we need more cross-sub-genre...and (:shock:) cross-genre nights...

[Craig McW]

Hold on a minute there chief, "ill-informed" is a bit harsh. I was commenting solely on production, not contribution to the scene as a whole.

I love Sims, I love Clarke, Hawtin, Mills, Carola. What they have "contributed" to the scene over the years is above reproach.


. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

i found that comment particulary well, ill informed really.... Sims has done some absolute gem's over the years and i presume its Carlos Rios u mean there, yeah he's a bad ass producer, but Sim's has done so much for techno over the years the likes of Rios etc can only try to achieve.... even if people are "losing" it now, which i must agree alot of people are imo, thats not to say people shouldnt hold up the legacy that these artists have created before them.... without Sims we wouldnt have half the number of tribal/club producers there are, even some of the more up n coming ones...

i think the bigger artists kinda go through the motions a bit more as they get older and they've been doing the job for longer, travel takes its toll, some rely on older records a bit TOO much etc etc

i wholeheartedly agree about the new skool as it were, but i wudnt class Sven and Amok in there as they are more than established artists now, but some of the the talent on this board is pretty badddd!!!!

thats badddd in a good way of course haha

[The Overfiend]

when you go and see the rolling stones you want to hear satisfaction right?
does that mean that coldplay are better than them because they are younger?



:clap: :clap: :clap:

[TripleX]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

u cant blame someone for being born 20 years after Mills now can you? if they are trying then thats what matters

good point.

[The Overfiend]

And to add to the defense of Ben Sims, listen to his qcontrol mix, that shit kills half the new hard and fast cats out now suckas.

[S/E]

And to add to the defense of Ben Sims, listen to his qcontrol mix, that shit kills half the new hard and fast cats out now suckas.

That was one serious mix. The track selection and Mr. Sims' impeccable skills made for a timeless set. :)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[holotropik]

I dont think they are losing it at all.

Music is a fickle thing, it follows trends and fads which is largely driven by factors that an artist cannot control. As a DJ it is even harder to please the punters as they tend to be more demanding. Dont forget that each individual person expects that a DJ should play what they want or expect and therefore the DJ feels pulled from every direction by a crowd which can be very disheartening.

I always go back to the band senario. When a band first hits the scene they make a mark from their first release. Then they release something else the next year and it is always very hard to make the same impression. The band know this. They deliberate over where they want to go and the label boss also tells them where they should go. After all consideration they release something and hope that it works. It does but not the same way. They lose some of the original fans but gain some new ones. Some are long term listeners and some are transitory.

With Techno it is similar but different because people expect future all the time. Then there are global trends, where what is working in Europe may not be working in the US etc. Its not easy to pick what will work because Techno aint new anymore. People know it now, they know what a DJ does, they know what a producer does, they know how things in the industry work - they are very close to it in a majority of cases. They are also very fanatical about it too, more so than other forms of music as its passions run deep because its that sort of music.

Techno is also at the mercy of something else.......???

BTW, someone mentioned SuckerPunch.

Funny. We been doing a party down here in OZ called SuckerPunch all throughout last year. It was focussed on just that - a musical style that is Techno but travels through all elements of it and delivers a surprize during the set. It draws you in and takes you out. Was very successful and influenced a lot of other people as it was a great mix of all sub-genres. DJ Simon Slieker ran these parties (I helped).

[Little Fella!]

This partly links up with the thread 'Techno.. a new movement?'

I can't comment on the big guns really, only to say that I don't think plots have been lost I just think creative energies have been strained either through longevity in the business, (those long weekends into the bargain!), or the fact that they may not feel that they have to focus on being innovative anymore...

Perhaps if a focal point was created so that producers old and new alike can flex their creative muscles for a given purpose then things may start to freshen up a little- and I think the discerning crowd will notice this...

What ya fink?

[holotropik]

I'll second that "Little Fella"

That is one concept that I cant understand why it isnt taken advantage of. makes perfect sense to me. There is strength in numbers after all and is why many of the Hip-Hop crews are so strong!

No-one can do it alone for a long time and expect to survive, but, if they expand into a crew of like-minded artists then there is more for everyone.

[DJAmok]

I think one major dilemma with People who have been in the music business for too long is, that they have 'said' the things they wanted to say with their early works, the ones where they were still passionate about doing, changing and creating something. This passion is within everyone who enters the scene, but it naturally wears off.

After a while you need to come up with new ideas, but since you can't go in a totally different direction with every record, you kinda stick to your style and start limiting yourself. Then after a while you start becoming bored with your sound and feel the need to "evolve". Usually this means your production level will rise, your tracks will become more sophisticated and more "intelligent". But this is a good thing, right?

Well... maybe not. I got the theory that this process kind of kills the accessability of your tracks. It's usually the simple things that work. Simple beats, simple melodys - nothing fancy, just a good groove to get people moving. No thought, just emotion. When you burden your listeners with too much structure in your tracks, you will make your longtime fans happy, but you will loose the youngsters, who want uncomplicated accessible techno in the sound of today.

[Mindful]

This partly links up with the thread 'Techno.. a new movement?'

I can't comment on the big guns really, only to say that I don't think plots have been lost I just think creative energies have been strained either through longevity in the business, (those long weekends into the bargain!), or the fact that they may not feel that they have to focus on being innovative anymore...

Perhaps if a focal point was created so that producers old and new alike can flex their creative muscles for a given purpose then things may start to freshen up a little- and I think the discerning crowd will notice this...

What ya fink?

You talk alot of sense lil fella but what is this focal piont that us who whant to try somthing different should focus on a label,a night, pehaps both?
cause as far as I can see theres just a few potential labels and just a coupleof nights that I feel are a playground for such experimrntation

[The Divide]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)

Hard techno has gotten harder and faster but, for me anyways, this sound is boring. All this on beat kick into off beat lift compression lifted drum/noise makes me think its taking techno down a road similar to happy hardcore, hardstyle, etc. Its gottten really cheesy for me. Where as older, slower and more minimal techno sounded more calculated and had more outside influence and feeling. More twisted wierdness too

But back to the subject I think a lot of the older guys have perhaps grown away from the original hard techno sound and are trying to do something a bit different which looses some of the younger crowds. Some have lost their drive and others are disconnected (mills wanting pop star treatment for example). It reminds me, I have recently got a copy of the un-released world service 2 Dave Clarke techno cd and its terrible. There’s no love in it.

I guess its like survival of the fittest even with music, the younger producers have more energy in them where the older ones look for something different and get pushed to the back

[SlavikSvensk]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)


we must be related...

[The Divide]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)


we must be related...

Must be distant fellow yoda :lol:

[Mindful]

Hard techno has gotten harder and faster but, for me anyways, this sound is boring. All this on beat kick into off beat lift compression lifted drum/noise makes me think its taking techno down a road similar to happy hardcore, hardstyle, etc. Its gottten really cheesy for me. Where as older, slower and more minimal techno sounded more calculated and had more outside influence and feeling. More twisted wierdness too

Good call Dan.

[The Overfiend]

I guess its like survival of the fittest even with music, the younger producers have more energy in them where the older ones look for something different and get pushed to the back

Damn Right :!:

[Mirsha]

The above sounds correct. But tell me hwho doees diecide upon which string is the correct one? You can'y tell, you just have to bree the ****ers dn let natural selction take over.

[MARKEG]

mirsha, go to bed!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[sash]

i think the older guys have lost it a bit but when they really push themselves, they're hard to beat.

[tekara]

it might also come down to the fact that its not so much that the old DJ's have lost their touch, but probably the fact that theres NEW young blood that also want to break into the international scene like the DJ's they used to look up to and make the most solid tracks ever because they have a true passion for it. As a result, it may seem like a lot of young bloods are making better tracks probably because they desperately want to get known and signed.

Sadly, in many cases its when they do succeed and break out into the market and reach a certain level of stardom that they begin to wane off a bit partly due to the idea that theyve now made it and dont need to try as hard, or maybe because their hefty DJ'ing schedules prohibits them from sitting a week at home and hammering out a future classic. You see it alot in the hiphop production community. 8th Wonder making dope beats before. He blows up and gets big, and now dont make good beats anymore. Not everyone can be as consistent as Dj Premier.

This is my opinion of course, and there are always exceptions to rules. Look at Oliver Ho. I think he is definately an exception.

[GothamGrooves.com]

I'm just feeling this recently. Techno has always been about all the obvious guns. The Dave Clarke's, the Jeff Mills, etc etc. Well, I can help but feeling there's a whole new generation coming up, the Wittekinds, the Amok's, TBH alot of ppl that post here on the forum, especially in the production forum section. And this feeling is more powerful than anything I've ever witnessed before.

Do you think that the big guys are just loosing it on the dancefloor? Are they not seeing what is making ppl go nuts?

You know, I played some Ben Sims to 10,000 ppl recently as I was building my set in Eastern Europe, everyone was just chilled, and then BOOM I played some Eric Sneo and christ, the whole party went off (Sorry Ben, that's the way I felt and it's my opinion eh ;)). I love Sims, I love Mills, but to the next gen, I feel the whole old techno sound is just nostalga. The kids ie the future, just don't want this.

And come on, was techno not all about the future??!!!!

Gimme your thoughts..

To a deg I think your right... I wouldnt go so far as to put down sims, but a lot of the old school kats, ie mills and such.
A) Are not playing the same way they used to unfortunatley
&
B) I think every1 is just soo used to them that there isnt the same magic left in their sets
Not to say they are bad, quite the contrary they are awesome...
But I def see the newer blood pushing the boundaries more in terms of the tunes they play & produce.
Also the crowds havent seen them perform 20000x so there is still mystery in their sets...
thats my opinion, if that makes sense hehe

[Little Fella!]

Cheers for the comment earlier Mindful!

There are alot of people on this forum who are well up on knowledge and thinking - I wish I'd signed up ages ago!

As to your question about what kind of focal point we are thinking about, I'll post it up in the 'Techno- a new movement' thread as it is more appropriate there...

[GothamGrooves.com]

The above sounds correct. But tell me hwho doees diecide upon which string is the correct one? You can'y tell, you just have to bree the **** dn let natural selction take over.

Shouldnt you be in church?

HAHAHAHHAHAHA

[jon connor]

is it a lack of insperation because i think sometimes they have been down so many roads they run out of options :eh: like you mark i fully repect the big guns for there services to techno but do find they can go off the rails , mabey they are travelling so much they dont get time to think hahahahahahaha :lol: but yea i think they do need a good old kick up the ass somtimes ,because we all no wot they are capable of, just somtimes releases can be a let down and also sometimes there performance :doh: anyways the guys are awsome and i hope many see this post and have a good old think and find some determination and insperation in there own ways, pull 1 outa the bag so to speak. it sure would be a good thing for techno. :lol:

[G-BO]

i think this 5 page conversation has evolved into nothing

dont understand why carolla, clarke, mills etc are the main issue of this supposed techno discussion

especially when its being backed up by the fact that wittekend and amok make better andmore refined techno music...i really do disgaree with this :lol:

[gumpy green]

you just have to listen to a set from some of the young shranz djs to hear how good they are,.

2hr of drum loops put through as much distrtion as possible. and throwing in great samples over thse beats like that shranz on me and shranz slippy. wondeful stuff.

much better than stuff that was out on purpose maker/search etc......those tunes are far to clean and musically oritated.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[davethedrummer]

i think people here are just talking about producers who get a bit softer as they get older.
well that is quite often true...
and maybe some older guys don't bang it like they used to
but musicianship stays with you all your life
it doesn't rub off ...or get used up as you get older
i think some of the older guys have just changed their syle
and for all the audience they've lost they probably gained the same amount of people who are into their newer sound. ( beyer for example)
so no the older guys haven't lost it in general
they've just changed , probably aware of the fact that there's a lot of new guys who play banging , so they've moved to something else
nothing wrong with progression.

[machina]

I think it's important to separate performance/playing out from production skills - good producers obviously evolve with time and you may or may not like it, but as Henry said, musicianship stays with you forever... however, as you get older, performance and playing out 3-4 times a week gets draining and boring - the enthusiasm disappears and there's no way to hide it as a performer - it really comes through to the audience and if the boredom becomes contagious.

machina

[tocsin]

If you truly enjoy what you do, the enthusiasm never dies.

[jon connor]

i think this 5 page conversation has evolved into nothing

dont understand why carolla, clarke, mills etc are the main issue of this supposed techno discussion

especially when its being backed up by the fact that wittekend and amok make better andmore refined techno music...i really do disgaree with this :lol:


me to on the artists named i played out with amok a few week ago and yea a great guy proper nice dude , but beeing an old school type of guy i found myself thinking everything sounded the same :eh: a well rehearsed set on cd decks that i probably could teach my 4 year old son in a matter af days :shock: no offence amok you are a great guy but cd decks just dident do it for me as dident the 1 loop techno mixed so fast it was inposible to make a mistake. but then again these guys are doing great things for techno and also playing rolls of the pide piper to a younger generation, so on this issue i think some of us old school geezers should bite our bottom lips a bit, they are doing a great job. ;)

[gunjack]

man i think you have to look at the bigger picture. who wants to go bang bang bang 24 7 365? i just finished a very hard piece for a german label and some experimental soul stuff for gunjack 04 b sides. did things from house, disco, ambient, experimental, jazz, techno, super hard techno and wierd electro tracks all in a one week session. now it is just about finding homes for each track and hoping that people catch on to the diversity going on here.

[gumpy green]

man i think you have to look at the bigger picture. who wants to go bang bang bang 24 7 365? i just finished a very hard piece for a german label and some experimental soul stuff for gunjack 04 b sides. did things from house, disco, ambient, experimental, jazz, techno, super hard techno and wierd electro tracks all in a one week session. now it is just about finding homes for each track and hoping that people catch on to the diversity going on here.too many folks nowadays.....ther the folks that dont full understand music if you ask me.

as soon as they hear it aint going bang bang they dismiss it straight off.

ther loss tho....

if they think shranz on me is better music than radio head -karma police then...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[nihilist]

i don't know about loosing it, i think the've evolved into different forms off 'techno' which doesn't reallt fit into a club enviroment where the punters won't to 'avit.

[jon connor]

man i think you have to look at the bigger picture. who wants to go bang bang bang 24 7 365? i just finished a very hard piece for a german label and some experimental soul stuff for gunjack 04 b sides. did things from house, disco, ambient, experimental, jazz, techno, super hard techno and wierd electro tracks all in a one week session. now it is just about finding homes for each track and hoping that people catch on to the diversity going on here. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

best thing ive heard all week fairdooze brian. i am hearing you man ,i like this attititude bang on man ;)

[reality]

this is true.

i believe the more seasoned producers/djs are giving the people what they always give'em and thats not what they want to hear from them. i think the people that pay to see alot of the guys/gals are paying to hear them drop the new hot stuff, the stuff they say "see they always drop the hot shit",

but yes i also believe its the newer people that are the ones dropping the new or more different things and the payees arent aware that there has to be a future generation of producers/djs. they think these producers are everliving and wont ever retire...not saying they should but its time for the next breed, and still if any of the older cats wanted to do something with me id be flattered and would oblige in a heartbeat

[nihilist]

totally agree but the hard part is getting people to go and see the leser names.

[thetonewrecka]

Man, a return trip to the boards has offered some good reading this morning.

I think every producer has a different mindset about what they are "creating" and what it has to eventually become. New or Old, creating a chunk of music is done for some reason.

Is it something to pay for your roof over your head? Is it something that will be a business card and get you gigs because many people will hear it and get familiar with "your sound"? Is it an experiment to see if you can compete/beat other records you like? Is it your equivilant of a punching bag that you use for expressing your emotions in a productive manner? Is it simply something you "do" because you are used to doing it..a familiar routine that is comforting? Is it an exercise to see if you can freak yourself out because you are your own worst critic? Is it an escape from having to deal with other "realities" in your life? Or does it shift between all these things on any given day?

Techno is evolution and no one evolves at the same pace, or rate. I would say that you can make comparisons to where you think people are at, but it is like a long race where the runners are all only part way into it. Newer runners are sprinting up, others are getting a 2nd wind, others have stopped to nap, but will be running again soon.

I don't even know if that makes sense to anyone. oh well.

[reality]

Techno is evolution and no one evolves at the same pace, or rate. I would say that you can make comparisons to where you think people are at, but it is like a long race where the runners are all only part way into it. Newer runners are sprinting up, others are getting a 2nd wind, others have stopped to nap, but will be running again soon.


Great point.....

i kinda of think of it like that too sometimes. it also seems to me besides being a dj and producer I am a fan more than anything and alot of times i go out and am like damn this set is boring or bland I see them as being a successful dj/producer i expect certain things and seems like alot have fallen off and only get boked not because they are still as good as they were but because of their name, and hey maybe some think shit if i dont play my heart out and still get booked then why do i need to try new things or have to even try at all...

and hey a good percent of the seasoned veterans still ddo the damn thing but alot of times they arent and i guess we should also blame tohe promoters for booking them....


but hey who am i...just want to say im not pointing fingers but the less seasoned people seemed to be getting shafted because of things like that...i fully believe in having to pay dues shit ive been paying dues for 12yrs now...but at what point does it all payoff cuz the creators of this "scene" shouldnt have to be the ones to keep it going either ya know...if im bugging please let me know.....