Normalising a mix for CD use

[rs1800]

Can someone please run through how to normalise a mix in Soundforge 7 and the sort of settings to use for hard dance/techno.

Thanks

[Mirsha]

On the normalize popup, click on the drop down box and hit "normalize peaks" which ampifies the signal by the amount required to get the biggest peak to exactly 0db. That will create all your sounds at roughly the same level of volume though not loudness.

Also what sort of mix are you talking about? Fixing levels between tracks in a DJ mix? If thats the case you would be much better of thinking about transporting the mix into Ableton then using subtractive EQing to get the levels correct before normalizing it in sound forge before mp3's it up.

If you just think to highlight individual tracks with low volumes and hit normalize and have it fix it it won't work, there will be an appreciable difference in volume between the music at either side of the break, which is why subtractive EQing can come into it in something like Ableton which has slick controls to allow you some control.

[RDR]

you would be much better of thinking about transporting the mix into Ableton then using subtractive EQing to get the levels correct .

Care to expand on this a bit further? I think i understand your meaning, but some clarification wouldnt go amiss.

[Mirsha]

Take the wav, dump it into ableton and let it render it's analysis file.

Then just go through the mix and tweak it where needed by removing frequencies rather than adding them, many people say this way of tweakig sound is much better than amplifying the signal up to the surrounding levels. Most likely because if you add in some EQ it distorts the signal more than subtracting from it so when you finally do normalize the signal which just multiplies it, it keeps the distortion from being amplified as well.

Ableton seems like the tool of choice to do this due to it's easy to use automation, you can just loop stuff and keep tweaking until it sounds correct then move onto the next part you need fixed and just keep that up to fix any discrepancies in the levels between transitions.

[rs1800]

Cheers for info

I dont use Ableton but just wanted to get the volumes of the tracks about the same, nothing complex.

What db setting to use and also what attack delay times to use?

cheers

[Mirsha]

Normalising won't help you, at all. If you want to fix the volume between tracks then you have to get dirty with some EQing and stuff. You can still do it in Soundforge but it's much more tedious as you have to change it, come out and listen to the transition which loses your makrer and if it isn't right then set it all up again. Which is where Ableton comes into it as you can just loop the transition to get the volume right then sort it on the other side.

[rs1800]

Except I havnt got it!

After playing about with it I think I have found an easy way of doing it, please tell me what you think...

I went into wave hammer then volume maximiser and used that bypassing the compressor.

It seems to have done the job.

Also what does normalisation do then?

cheers

[Mirsha]

Normalisation finds the largest peak on a wav, works out how much it can increase the signal by at that point to put sound level up to 0db then uses that value over the rest of the signal. So say most of your audio was 0.25 of the full volume, with peaks at 0.5, it would effectively double the height of the whole signal so the peak would be at 1 and the main part would be at 0.5. It's a proportional increase across the whole signal.

If volume maximiser works how I think it works, by hard limiting the signal chopping off the peaks above a certain level then normalising it that increases the RMS power of the signal making it sound louder which could argubly make your mix sound tighter. However you are now introducing distortion into the signal in the form of the clipped peaks.

[rs1800]

There are a few different options. I selected dynamic compression so it wouldnt clip the peaks but there were other options.

[Mirsha]

Well it depends on the setting, at a 1:1 ratio you are clipping the peaks and with higher ratios you are only curbing the distortion and managing it a bit better.

Another bit of advice I've recalled which many people take up, if you've done a mix and aren't entirely happy with it then you should sit down and do it again until it is right. I have the exact same problem with my mixes as I've got a terrible setup and some of the records I use have been mastered with different levels and stuff.

[rs1800]

I just wanted something simple to get the volumes level and maximised.

Wave Hammer seems to do both of these jobs pretty well and I am pleased with the results.

I know that you could probably get it even better using other programs and techniques but I am not into production or the tools used in it.

Thanks for advice though, Ill get Ableton and have a play ready for my next mix.

Cheers

[eyes without a face]

balls to all the eq malarkey and fixing the levels of tracks, u shud have the levels sorted from the mix stage anyway no use going back and doing it, not very "techno" is it... keep ur levels safe in ur mix, not in the red, then use Wavelab or Soundforge to record it, clean it up a bit and bobs ur uncle

[Barely Human]

What eyes said....

Never tweak it too much, unless you have a really bad recoding. If you have a really good recording, do you really think you can amster better than these producers and thier pressing engineers?

Other than that, some compression will help to smooth the volumes out between mixes. Add a long attack and decay so you wont get any pumping..

[rs1800]

then use Wavelab or Soundforge to record it, clean it up a bit and bobs ur uncle

That is what I was asking for help with. How do you clean it up a bit? The mix sounded reasonably good already and was reasonably level, well below 0db. I just wanted to know how to do very basic mastering I think?


What eyes said....
Other than that, some compression will help to smooth the volumes out between mixes. Add a long attack and decay so you wont get any pumping..

That is what I wanted to know how to do. Is Wave hammer ok for this? Would you use it in compressor mode rather than volume maximiser mode?

Cheers

[eyes without a face]

well if its a mix for a CD to give to mates and clubs it doesnt really need mastering as such, but if u have the WAVES or other tools then just have a look around in the settings, if its for just a mix cd then try the Sonic Ultramaximizer there are some lovely settings on there including a high resolution CD master setting that seems to be ok, altho it increases the volume somewhat so get ready on ur master volume in Soundforge or Wavelab... i find Wavelab the best personally

[RDR]

Yeah, you need to be careful playing with levels. If it sounds o.k. dont worry.

If you want to alter the levels because you didnt pay attention during the mix, and the change in levels is so drastic that its noticeable, then start again.

You need to subscribe to the "do a good take" rather than "fix in the mix"

[rs1800]

I agree but I was happy with the mix.

I just thought sf would enable me to even out volume between tracks although it looks much worse in sf than it sounds. I suppose a couple of db isnt really noticable but I presumed it was easy to correct.

Also I presumed that as I play safe with gains it would be better to increase the volume of the whole mix obviously making sure no peaks are clipped?

This is only for a demo CD. May be I should have posted in the DJ section rather than the production one!

[Mirsha]

I'll possibly repeat something I've already said.

If you are mking a mix to hand out as a promo and you aren't happy with it and want to tweak it: record it again and again and again you get it right. Don't ****ign stop until you are happy with it.

You know club promoters aren't going to be happy at the end of the night when you explain to them "well yeah when I'm in the studio I just tweak all the sounds and stuff but I'm terrible sorry my mix was just utter ****ing shit because I didn't have that level of control when actually doing it live but, you know, you heard my promo before hand so you knew what you were getting into.


You know. Mutton dressed as lamb.