SOFTWARE MORE POWERFULL THAN HARDWARE?

[Scott Kemix]

You all probably have had this convo quite often, but lately i am noticing alot of tracks that lack that analog feel to them? I think some plug'ins and vst'i do good jobs but still not as chunky as hardware. People try to brush off and say "software it just as good", but i dont agree or is this because some producers cant be arsed learning how to programme a hardware synth? Your thoughts please.

[audioinjection]

i really think these days software is getting more powerful sounding, but it still doesn't beat the good ol' analog sound imo

but in reality, not everyone has thousands of dollars to spend on proper hardware gear anyway.........plus its kind of a preference now. i know producers who used to be all hardware who prefer software now and vice versa

[nova]

and peeps are making warm as fuk tracks with software for sure. get quite alot of bang out of a plugin for £60 like 400-1000 init ta get a hardware synth thats gonna be as good better wot ever then a software synth. and with some of the real old stuff with no midi is gonna probo be sampled at the end of the day.

[nova]

softwares like heaven

[dirty_bass]

Most people that use software these days have never used hardware, and therefore don`t know how to emulate that sound.
As autechre say, if you can`t make your software produce an analogue sound, then you simply don`t know how to use it.

I hear plenty of hardware stuff that sounds dry, thin and inactive as well.
Plenty in fact. Particularly some techno.

talent, experience and knowledge will give birth to results, there is no shortcut.

[nova]

yeap to true. i got hardware at home virus b and wot not tb 303 im not shy to say i hear techno made with software and it sounds much fatter, better then wot i could do with my hardware. but i do kno my way round virus b. i cant programe like you guys tho i got much ta learn. and ive never been any where ner a proper studio or had a proper tune in my sequencer done buy a pro. and its a massive learning curve

[Komplex]

few things to take into consideration whenever software vs hardware comes up...

*workflow
*flexibility
*sound palette
*sound quality
*tweakability
*directness
*expressiveness
*portability
*phatness (I really didn't wanna put that one in)
*price
etc...


You all probably have had this convo quite often, but lately i am noticing alot of tracks that lack that analog feel to them?

Thats probably because they don't use analogue synths, or don't play/program their music intricately enough...

But another reason is because they are often WAY TOO POLISHED AND OVERCOMPRESSED.

The problem is, people don't think its "pro sounding" unless its been processed with 50 plugins during the mastering stage. When you take away ALL the dynamics, it CAN'T sound analogue (even if it is at the source). I've also noticed that some vinyl coming out looks f#cked up these days. When you look at the grooves, they look all weird and blocky. Like as if the waveform has been totally squashed.

[Komplex]

double post :)

[RDR]

double post :)

Sees double posts, takes a run up, shoots, scores!

:oops:

Sorry, thought we were playing football. :doh:

My 2p is this: For synth programming i prefer hardware, hands down. the directness is FUN.

If you arent having fun then it isnt worth doing.

For sequencing it has to be software. no contest there. To my mind the weakest link in this chain is the convertors on your soundcard. I compared the recording done on my mates roland VS2480 and those done on his ECHO LAYLA and the roland WIPED THE FLOOR with the ECHO, no suprise really since Rolands convertors rock.

Having said that, the most important thing is to recognise that if something works for you then its good, the sound quality and quality of the sound can be debated as not all sounds must be crystal sharp as they can be interesting without that. On the flip side the most basic of sounds can still sound great when recorded well and used in the right place.

whatever you do, learn to wizz around your sequencer and your synth and you'll be producing great sounds in no time.

[TechMouse]

It's all a trade off.

Hardware yields better results immediately, and you have more "hands on" control.

Software can sound as good, but it's a lot more hard work. Though, that said, it can also go much further than hardware will ever do. Try getting hold of a hardware version of Reaktor, for example...

[Scott Kemix]

i really think these days software is getting more powerful sounding, but it still doesn't beat the good ol' analog sound imo

but in reality, not everyone has thousands of dollars to spend on proper hardware gear anyway.........plus its kind of a preference now. i know producers who used to be all hardware who prefer software now and vice versa

Good answer man, this is what made me raise the subject. So could we all really be falling into the digital domain, because its easier and cheaper?

[FILTERZ]

GOD AM I BORED BY THIS SUBJECT

Use what you like , just make it good

[TechMouse]

So could we all really be falling into the digital domain, because its easier and cheaper?
You make it sound like a bad thing - whereas in reality it's just different.

It's cheaper, certainly - but easier? Not if you want to be original, creative, and phat.

You could argue that some people just buy hardware and then have easy phat sounds off the rack.

I'm not really plumping for either side - I think a bit of both is good (if only I could afford some hardware!).

[TechMouse]

GOD AM I BORED BY THIS SUBJECT

Use what you like , just make it good

hehe - fair enough man, it is an old one.

No one's forcing you to read it though!

[acidsaturation]

Having said that, the most important thing is to recognise that if something works for you then its good, the sound quality and quality of the sound can be debated as not all sounds must be crystal sharp as they can be interesting without that. On the flip side the most basic of sounds can still sound great when recorded well and used in the right place.

Word.

I do wish I used my hardware more, 'cos I do find it more enjoyable, but sometimes software is easier and tempting to use because of it.

I find it easier to mix in software, but that's mainly 'cos I cant afford a massave great desk - and so can give more sounds their own channel that I wouldn't be ablt to do with hardware at the moment.

I like the sound of my Hardware when I use it - it adds a bit of a distinctiveness 'cos of the particular set up. I reckon sometimes we have access to too much software so it's hard to mould a coherent sound between tracks 'cos everything changes - this can be good or bad.

I do think you can(or are encouraged to) play about a bit more with hardware in some ways - sometimes 'cos the restrictions of each bit make you need to. What I mean is say you have a crap drum machine and desk and a cheap fx box. It's then you start thinking "well what happens if I put this in here and feedback that through there...

But then the software means you can record that and then do something different and sample that - I remember years ago having a few old bits of kit, a minidisc and a cheap sampler and repatching, "multitracking" between the minidisk and a tapedeck and the sample etc... That's when it gets creastive...

In response to the main question - why do we need to be obsessed with "Analog" anyway. Digital has a quality of its own that can be just a good if done right - Listen to Ken Ishii who uses no analog kit if you don't know what I mean!

[Scott Kemix]

GOD AM I BORED BY THIS SUBJECT

Use what you like , just make it good

:eh: Just tried to start a post for people to discuss. Sorry if you dont like and are bored, but you dont have to read it. :lol:

[Scott Kemix]

So could we all really be falling into the digital domain, because its easier and cheaper?
You make it sound like a bad thing - whereas in reality it's just different.

It's cheaper, certainly - but easier? Not if you want to be original, creative, and phat.

You could argue that some people just buy hardware and then have easy phat sounds off the rack.

I'm not really plumping for either side - I think a bit of both is good (if only I could afford some hardware!).

No, its not a bad thing i am just having a general chat about this subject. Though it is different. I think a bit of both is good, but certainly not all digital for sure.

[TechMouse]

but certainly not all digital for sure.
Try telling Mylo that. ;)

[fatcollective]

hardware must be better sounding thats for sure, but these days, its confusing as to who uses what, take alex calver for instence, he uses software and his tunes are fat as ****, so i think at the end of the day its how you use the software and what mastering techniques you use to make your tune full and fat sounding!

[fatcollective]

another point is that i know of big producers that have switched from hardware to software and i dont think this is because software is chaeper...i even think prodigy have done this recently.

[acidsaturation]

It's really just a case of chaque un a son gout.

It's always good to natter about this one, but don't reckon anyone's gonna change their ways.

At the end of the day I reckon few of us are fortunate enough to be able to have exactly what we want so to some extent it's gonna come down to using the tools available....

[eyes without a face]

i agree with Filterz this particular topic really has been done to death, and its been done on this board enough times for it to be easy to do a search and check back on opinions...

i find that most of the hardware/software debates are made by people who are predominantly hardware users but have recently become dissillusioned at hearing all software produced tracks that are sounding better than there own work... i find in general people using software only get more done because they tend not to get as anal as all out hardware users and actually enjoy themselves more because they can still do everything the hardware user can do, plus much, much more... and the sound quality is achievable and its been proved on numerous occasions, and will be proved again time and time over...

but yeah just use whats more comfortable, economical, practical and enjoyable to you

[eyes without a face]

i wasnt lumping u into my comment there by the way when i say about hardware users becoming disillusioned, before it kicks off haha

[acidsaturation]

I think software users are all jealous 'cos they only have virtual knobs...

Or soft knobs for that matter... :lol:

[TechMouse]

I think software users are all jealous 'cos they only have virtual knobs...

Or soft knobs for that matter... :lol:

<insert your own "virus" joke here>

[FILTERZ]

GOD AM I BORED BY THIS SUBJECT

Use what you like , just make it good

:eh: Just tried to start a post for people to discuss. Sorry if you dont like and are bored, but you dont have to read it. :lol:

Didn`t say you lot couldn`t chat about it did i , knock yerselves out ;)
it wasn`t meant as a personal slur anyway fella . Just that the hardware software thing is just irrelavant to me . If your talking digital vs analog then there is something to talk about but lots of hardware is digital anyway and therefore is also running software of some kind .

didnt mean to be so negative but yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnn ;) :lol:

[Scott Kemix]

no worries, but i dont think, just because certain artists move over and dont use no hardware at all, doesnt necessarily mean it will work for them.
Each to there own................sorry am i boring you again :lol:

[Scott Kemix]

My main quarm was, when i last went to get some tracks vinyl mastered over the past couple of months featuring various tracks from different producers, the engineer could obviously spot the 'digitally' produced tracks from the more 'real' sounding tracks just by looking at the waves and spec analyser. Before this was actually cut, the power and clarity of the 'digital' sounding tracks lacked punch. Questions were thrown in the air about using plug'ins etc on these tracks, and they obviously were.
This was the main reason for starting the thread.

[massplanck]

Hardware + real instruments for the ideas + sounds + the track for me

With software I find that its just too bloody time wasting ugrading this downloading this installing this rebooting this clicking this blllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhh when with a peice of hardware i can just switch it on every time and off i go. I worry about the notes not the sounds (because i can trust them)

& Dont give me that shit about midi controllers you still have to piss about with them and assign knobs and click here assign it to each program and ****. bleuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhh :lol:

I ****ing hate looking at computer screen (Execpt when posting here of course). If you can afford decks + djm 600 + 1000 records then you can afford to save for a bit of hardware. Imagine Jeff Mills and Kraftwerk had decided to pack in making music because they 'couldnt afford hardware' . :shock: If you love what you are doing.......


Software for the sequencing though... cubase et all. I appreciate what software can do so much and i do use it from time to time but in my eyes it will never match hardware untill they start supplying each program with its own personalised control interface.

As for having 60 producers using exactly the same program to make tunes (abelton for example).. when did indiviuality go out the window? evryone used to have completely different setups and thus stood out from each other in tonality & performance. Now you just have the fruityloops/abelton/acid gangs.... all sounding way too similar for my liking


This is my opinion. :dontevengothere: :lol:

[massplanck]

I also find that software leads to over use of everything to mask shit programming.... that wall of sound wank we have been talking about.

my opinion of course... :lol:


If you think todays techno sounds better than the techno before the advent of the computer then you might be right... but if you still think that pre 98 was where it was at.. then am i right? :neutral:

[TechMouse]

As for having 60 producers using exactly the same program to make tunes (abelton for example).. when did indiviuality go out the window?
Yeah, 'cuz every drum track made on a 909 is identical innit. :roll:

[massplanck]

As for having 60 producers using exactly the same program to make tunes (abelton for example).. when did indiviuality go out the window?
Yeah, 'cuz every drum track made on a 909 is identical innit. :roll:


The 909 just handled the drums of the tracks as far as I can remember. :roll: :lol:

Its just a personal opinion.

[nova]

Hardware + real instruments for the ideas + sounds + the track for me

With software I find that its just too bloody time wasting ugrading this downloading this installing this rebooting this clicking this blllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhh when with a peice of hardware i can just switch it on every time and off i go. I worry about the notes not the sounds (because i can trust them)

& Dont give me that shit about midi controllers you still have to piss about with them and assign knobs and click here assign it to each program and ****. bleuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhh :lol:

I **** hate looking at computer screen (Execpt when posting here of course). If you can afford decks + djm 600 + 1000 records then you can afford to save for a bit of hardware. Imagine Jeff Mills and Kraftwerk had decided to pack in making music because they 'couldnt afford hardware' . :shock: If you love what you are doing.......


Software for the sequencing though... cubase et all. I appreciate what software can do so much and i do use it from time to time but in my eyes it will never match hardware untill they start supplying each program with its own personalised control interface.

As for having 60 producers using exactly the same program to make tunes (abelton for example).. when did indiviuality go out the window? evryone used to have completely different setups and thus stood out from each other in tonality & performance. Now you just have the fruityloops/abelton/acid gangs.... all sounding way too similar for my liking


This is my opinion. :dontevengothere: :lol:


big messege ta quote but anyway. the midi. if that was somthing to do with wot i said about midi. its not setting up the controls thats the problem its timing on my setup. if you made a track down here on my hardware & logic you would see where im coming from. dont get me wrong midi can be tight as. just not here for me on logic

peace out :wicked:

[nova]

ouch! that want even in this tread :doh: haha

[massplanck]

dont get me wrong midi can be tight as. just not here for me on logic

peace out :wicked:

on your PC you mean. :lol: I just love synhing up three drum machines and letting fly with knobs and buttons. No setting up stuff or timing issues.. just fun and tight sounds without the plugins.

just an opinion.

[TechMouse]

As for having 60 producers using exactly the same program to make tunes (abelton for example).. when did indiviuality go out the window?
Yeah, 'cuz every drum track made on a 909 is identical innit. :roll:


The 909 just handled the drums of the tracks as far as I can remember. :roll: :lol:

Its just a personal opinion.

Care to re-read?

[massplanck]

Care to re-read?

:oops: stung

At leats you had to program your own beats from scratch then though.. and ther were more drum machines around.

I have nothing against software... its just not for me execpt for a bit of midi sequencing and using soundforge Guitars/drumkits/raw drum machines/microphones + synths being tweaked with bells whistles on.... it just gives me the horn.

I just cant not get an erection looking at a computer monitor with my whole studio on screen..

[nova]

dont get me wrong midi can be tight as. just not here for me on logic

peace out :wicked:

on your PC you mean. :lol: I just love synhing up three drum machines and letting fly with knobs and buttons. No setting up stuff or timing issues.. just fun and tight sounds without the plugins.

just an opinion.


yeah on the mac. i had some dude send me a setup for all ports on my emagic amt8 so all ports were there own indvidule ports 1 2 3 and so on but midi timing was alful for about 2 bars everytime i pressed play. but i did hav about 8 pieces of hardware connectd

[TechMouse]

I just cant not get an erection looking at a computer monitor with my whole studio on screen..
Perhaps you should try looking at porn instead?
I'm reliably informed this is very good for flying the Japanese flag.

[nova]

I just cant not get an erection looking at a computer monitor with my whole studio on screen..
Perhaps you should try looking at porn instead?
I'm reliably informed this is very good for flying the Japanese flag.

:lol: fecking hell

[massplanck]

I just cant not get an erection looking at a computer monitor with my whole studio on screen..
Perhaps you should try looking at porn instead?
I'm reliably informed this is very good for flying the Japanese flag.


I already had a good wank of that Beauty Contest victory pic of you. :lol:


Anyway. Its time for middleware..........

Let the PC do the number crunching & processing..
And lets see the software manufacturer bringing out control surfaces for their respective products.

[massplanck]

I'll say one thing.. a friend of mine has managed to make trash metal using only fruityloops & vsts.. pretty convincing stuff too.. :shock: :twisted:

[TechMouse]

And lets see the software manufacturer bringing out control surfaces for their respective products.
Interesting.

Like the Novation Remote25, perhaps?

What's the point in building custom hardware interfaces for software?

The point of software is that it all runs on a PC, thus once you've bought a PC it will work for everything. If you're going to start buying custom interfaces, then TBH, I imagine £cost of interface + £cost of software > £cost of dedicated hardware.

[massplanck]

And lets see the software manufacturer bringing out control surfaces for their respective products.
Interesting.

Like the Novation Remote25, perhaps?

What's the point in building custom hardware interfaces for software?

The point of software is that it all runs on a PC, thus once you've bought a PC it will work for everything. If you're going to start buying custom interfaces, then TBH, I imagine £cost of interface + £cost of software > £cost of dedicated hardware.

something like that.....

I dunno Techmouse. All the hardware interface is a midi controller basically but one that has been made for the specific app & its functions. I hate having to assign this & that and flute around with settings and basically look at at indentical rows of sliders or faders for each program... its confusing and just means less time for me making music. Call me old fashioned.

I dont think everyone should have a room full of hardware but I feel there is a case for *some* in a persons setup along with their pc.

[stjohn]

i am in the process of gettin what i want together and i am starting to get comfortable with certain software...

personally i couldmt see alot of hardware replicate the sounds made in absynth and reaktor so for those type of sounds i think software....

now for a bassline im thinking hardware, even tho i dont have any hardware, i cna just imagine a cleaner, thicker, bigger waveform ready to rock any system...

for kick drums, maybe hardware for the above reason.

programming drums, i am (too) comfortable with reason and i want to phase it out, but i just cant. weird, tribarific sounds can be gotten in seconds, using certain filter settings on an appended malstrom.

its about balance... i think....

but i can see where maasplank is coming from, making a tune can be like a having a mix if you have all the dedicated hardware there running off each other....

[Scott Kemix]

cool, not a bad thread after all ;)

[j_s]

i cna just imagine a cleaner, thicker, bigger waveform ready to rock any system...


(analog) hardware isn't cleaner than software at all. it can be really rather noisy, but i think it's this dirty quality that helps hardware sound that bit fatter than vsts....

[massplanck]

I always think hardware sounds fatter because you just route it straight into your mixer or speakers from the back of the box.... no reliance on flakey drivers/is the sample normalised/have i decent soundcard/is my app/souncard it at the right level. Your VSTi will only sounds as good as your soundcard/PC config allows for the most part.

This doesnt hold true for people with perfect setups i agree... just an opinion. :cool:

[dirty_bass]

It`s acedemic these days.
The difference is down to the skill of the user.
These kind of arguments are a little childish.
Just find something you are comfortable with, and get the **** on with it till you`ve pushed it to the limit.
Then move on.

[gunjack]

ain't no limits nowadays bro.

[dirty_bass]

You asked for it.

http://www.celebritypicturesarchive.com/pictures/0/2-unlimited/2-unlimited-003.jpg

[loopdon]

nooooooooooooooooo :doh:

[massplanck]

aagghh not them two again....

[Scott Kemix]

bet ya'll love it really :love:

[loopdon]

gotta admit they're stylee was kinda fresh and tightly produced :crackup:
f**k kraftwerk - this iz da real shit :rambo:

http://www.the2unlimited.com/pochettes/2unlimited%20Mag1.jpg

[dan the acid man]

no no no no, no no no no, no no no no :oops:

[Scott Kemix]

Think this should maybe lead into a 2-unlimited thread :rambo:

[xfive]

He's really rockin' that plaid shirt. :clap:














:crackup:

[sash]

2 unlimited suck. technotronic is where it's at :-)

software or hardware...as long as your next purchase improves your sound, that's all that matters really.

[Scott Kemix]

yes

[nova]

He's really rockin' that plaid shirt. :clap:













:crackup:







:lol: