Is Ableton The Most Important Thing To Happen In Techno ?

[slavestudios]

imo, it has had more impact than anything else i can recall.

it has moved the goal posts & started to evolve the very nature of techno.



i think it is the start of a new wave. are record sales fallin cos ppl dont need records ? how many make their own loops for LIVE with Reason or sample trax they already have in a new context ?

it is called 'LIVE' after all ;)

[eyes without a face]

no i dont think it has... although it has made a huge impact on the way music, namely electronic, can be presented in the live environment

[Mirsha]

I thought techno was the most important thing to happen in techno.

Ableton is certainly important as it puts in the hands of people like us a powerful tool we can use to do stuff with but I'm not sure just how much of Ableton lets you do is stuff only it can perform and how much is stuff you can perform if you splash out more money on a hardware setup.

I mean using Reason and Ableton I can churn out whatever I want and mess about with it, but you know other folk have been doing it for years before me with arcane bits of equipment and I think thats a bit more important when it comes down to it.

[slavestudios]

I thought techno was the most important thing to happen in techno.


that doesnt make sense :eh:




Ableton is certainly important as it puts in the hands of people like us a powerful tool we can use to do stuff with but I'm not sure just how much of Ableton lets you do is stuff only it can perform and how much is stuff you can perform if you splash out more money on a hardware setup.

I mean using Reason and Ableton I can churn out whatever I want and mess about with it, but you know other folk have been doing it for years before me with arcane bits of equipment and I think thats a bit more important when it comes down to it





right. but surely the fact that can people can make their own loops that no-one else has ever created is gonna open ppls sound.

yes you can do it with hadware, but the amount needed to emulate LIVE would be very expensive & a supremem pain in the ass to lug about. believe me, i know.. ive done the live thing for a long time. and i was in bands from about 12 too...



i jus think its the new 1210. outside of fx, its up to the individual to stand out.

you can give ten djs the same crate of wax, but how many brilliant sets will you get ?



its up to the player, not the kitlist. and LIVE can be had by anyone with a pc. a huge wallet is no longer the only pass to these tools.

and i think thats the a wonderful thought.

[Mirsha]

Some people would argue that the opening up aspect of tools like Live/Reason which are more accesable are a good reason for the decline in techno which everyone keeps going on about but I never see. A similair thing has been said about DJ's now as well, everyone wants to be a DJ and everyone and their dog has a set of decks in some form they can play about which is just saturating the market with pish DJs. Reason has arguably led to an increase in rubbish records as people put anything out desperate to be the next big thing.

It's not something that's ever seriously worried me like it does other people, I mean yeah sure it'll lead to lots of pish being spat out like babies from the mothers womb as they write their demand for more suport moey from the dole, but I've never had a problem with picking through the pish to find the good stuff. After all it's the bad stuff that forms the contrast that lets you define what is good. But a lot of people seem to think more people will just be killing the scene by dilluting already sparse amount of money available in the music production stakes.

[slavestudios]

i'm talkin in a totally artisitc manner though.

nowt to do with money. **** bad records.. its jus down to taste..

i'm talkin about re-learning how we put the music together. to take a different look at the manner in which live performance is cohesively structered.

not money or sales. in technology & possibilty terms, i think its the biggest step forward for a long time. maybe ever imo



when was the last time a piece of kit caused this much stir & caused so many ppl to abandon the techics ?



follow me ?

like my loops. i have no interest in wriritng 6 minute trax. but i like 1,2,4,8 & 16 beats loops... even some 3 & 6 in there for the shoulders ;)

and i dont need all that label, pressing, distribution, shite... i jus give it away here & ppl are thanking me for it.

THATS what its about. not the f**kin ££££££ thats whats ****in techno up

[audioinjection]

maybe not the most important thing, but definitely a big change for techno, especially now with all the downloading, producers and stuff

[eyes without a face]

i think the mistake here is thinking it only applies to techno... im sure just as many house, dnb heads etc are experimenting with Ableton, lets not pigeon hole this software in the same way we do, unfortunately and admittably, with techno itself

its a big step forward for electronic music definately

[Evil G]

i got roped into playing a live gig this saturday, and have spent the last 4 weeks toiling day and night sampling my synths and drum machines so i can play a set using just my sampler, one keyboard, some fx and a dj mixer.

but i'm thinking i would have saved myself a lot of work and would probably sound better if i could just give up my luddite tendencies and get with a laptop and ableton. i guess there's always next year. ;)

[slavestudios]

i agree eyes..

but i would believe its made a bigger impact on the loop posse, but thats down to its very nature..

first time i seen it come out i thought 'wow.. acid pro.. for live use' and now its just sooooo much more.


but, in the techno scene, i see it as the biggest step forward for a long time. sure ya take Reason or Cubase on a lappy, but the jammin aspect of LIVE blows them both away. though in saying that, dunno what i'd use to make loops if i stopped using Reason.. spesh 3

[Martin Dust]

Never mind that, I wish they'd ****ing fix the paging memory leak in 4, bunch of cunts :twisted:

[Mirsha]

Well the beta of Live 5 is out now for registered owners of 4.

[Martin Dust]

I can crash that one as well, they should fix 4 before trying to sell us 5, cnuts.

[slavestudios]

I can crash that one as well, they should fix 4 before trying to sell us 5, cnuts.

get you mr chaos :lol: :lol: :lol:

the BOA crew find another target for the knives :twisted:

j/k dust :lol:

[massplanck]

I can crash that one as well, they should fix 4 before trying to sell us 5, cnuts.

:lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

I can crash that one as well, they should fix 4 before trying to sell us 5, cnuts.

:lol:

:clap:

[Mirsha]

Thing is I've had not a single problem with Live 4 so it might just be your setup causing some problem or something. Certainly the tons of ****ing people that use Live in a club for PA's haven't been affected enough by any problems to stop using it.

[slavestudios]

ive yet to hear anyone i know using it have problems.

the stability was the big draw for many ppl i think.

[The Divide]

Is Ableton The Most Important Thing To Happen In Techno ?

Hahahaha

Personally I dont think it is anything like, well not for production

Yea you can mix and mangle loops with it. Quick easy and makes a sound that works all of which I find a bit dated and boring. Its just a better 'ACID Loops'

[Joseph Isaac]

Ableton is Fun.

I think having fun with your music is of the utmost importance.

[Komplex]

Just thought I'd quote tihs off the Abe's forum :)


OK. I don't want to add to the noise floor here anymore - I've got to put in my $0.02 once and not repeat myself on this, since I can see it comes up again and again. I have to get this off my chest, but I won't repeat the points below ever again. Ever. That's a promise.

(though I might link to this thread...)

1. The dumbing down of Live 5 into an automatic beat detecting grid based DJ tool is tragic, but necessary for the survival of the corporate entity that is Ableton.

2. This dumbing down of Live as stated in point 1 will saturate the digital music performance labour market with every pinhead with an mp3 collection.

3. This saturation of the market will also erode Live's reputation as a tool for creative performers and composers. Promoters and punters will soon look on Live sets disdainfully as nothing requiring talent at all - and in many cases they will be right.

4. This dumbing down exacerbates the fact (yes, fact) that DJing is inheirently a no-talent activity when compared to live music creation. Why?

4.a. It is much easier to identify a good track, than it is to compose one on the fly.

4.b. Regarding the arguement that a DJs real talent is reading the crowd, an improvisational musician does the same on a higher order of magnitude...

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

5. The arguement that "it's just about the music who cares how it's made" is infuriating. The lack of appreciation for effort and hard work is killing western civilization. The over-appreciation of DJs is just one of many symptoms of a sick society that values style over substance and worships immediate gratification without effort.

6. Turntablists are excluded from the above rant - they are truly musicians. As well, DJs who compose their own music or are musicians in their own right are excluded from most portions of the above rant - When composing they are at least engineers and artists.

'nuff said. I say the above now just to put it on the record and not have to speak of it again. I also promise not to post on Mac/PC debates or Sasha threads ever again.
_________________
L8er
Monty Bréqs

Discuss...

[xfive]

I read that on the ableton forum.. although you can take it as being completely true... if you really think about it its just one guy getting a bit worked up..... it's just evolution of a tool.

It is now up to us as the user to use these newly acquired advantages to do shit that's still pushing limits.

Things like this undoubtedly happen as time goes on. Assembly lines? Um... calculators?

It's like saying easily accessible recording equipment caused all musicians to suddenly be lazy and shitty because they could record multiple takes... is this true? In some cases yes.. but those cases are usually obvious after you see truly talented people pull the shit off live and make your jaw drop. Then you realize exactly how good they are and that others in fact do use the tools as means to an end instead of just another tool in the arsenal.

All that's being done in this case is shortening the time it takes for your brain to think of something, and actually manifesting it in sound.

[Martin Dust]

Isn't the question a bit like saying "Isn't a pencil the most important thing to happen to drawing?" It's not the tool, it's what you do with it.

And yeah loads of people haven't had a problem, but this is a bug and I can trap the memory leak - I've sat and watched it happen - piss poor if you ask me because it is possible to repeat it time and time again.

[Martin Dust]

Isn't the question a bit like saying "Isn't a pencil the most important thing to happen to drawing?" It's not the tool, it's what you do with it.

And yeah loads of people haven't had a problem, but this is a bug and I can trap the memory leak - I've sat and watched it happen - piss poor if you ask me because it is possible to repeat it time and time again.

[gumpy green]

Turntablists are excluded from the above rant - they are truly musicians. As well, DJs who compose their own music or are musicians in their own right are excluded from most portions of the above rant - When composing they are at least engineers and artists.


word....and beatmathers aint pushing shit,

now the smae could happen with ableton, so easy to put toghether mediocrs stuff.

but then like the turntablists yall get folks that push these simple tools and really come up with soo much creativity.

yall still get folks doing crazy crazy shit cos ableton is a great tool(hopefully they stand out from the crowd), but ther will be loads of foks knocking out easy to do stuff.

[Heroes]

Reason has arguably led to an increase in rubbish records as people put anything out desperate to be the next big thing.

spot on + add to that distributor quality control, bang you have it, if i saw a dj using ableton in a prewarped track way id be well pissed......it would be like watching the american grand prix all over again

[dan the acid man]

haha, the american grand prix :lol: :lol:

[eyes without a face]

Just thought I'd quote tihs off the Abe's forum :)


OK. I don't want to add to the noise floor here anymore - I've got to put in my $0.02 once and not repeat myself on this, since I can see it comes up again and again. I have to get this off my chest, but I won't repeat the points below ever again. Ever. That's a promise.

(though I might link to this thread...)

1. The dumbing down of Live 5 into an automatic beat detecting grid based DJ tool is tragic, but necessary for the survival of the corporate entity that is Ableton.

2. This dumbing down of Live as stated in point 1 will saturate the digital music performance labour market with every pinhead with an mp3 collection.

3. This saturation of the market will also erode Live's reputation as a tool for creative performers and composers. Promoters and punters will soon look on Live sets disdainfully as nothing requiring talent at all - and in many cases they will be right.

4. This dumbing down exacerbates the fact (yes, fact) that DJing is inheirently a no-talent activity when compared to live music creation. Why?

4.a. It is much easier to identify a good track, than it is to compose one on the fly.

4.b. Regarding the arguement that a DJs real talent is reading the crowd, an improvisational musician does the same on a higher order of magnitude...

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

5. The arguement that "it's just about the music who cares how it's made" is infuriating. The lack of appreciation for effort and hard work is killing western civilization. The over-appreciation of DJs is just one of many symptoms of a sick society that values style over substance and worships immediate gratification without effort.

6. Turntablists are excluded from the above rant - they are truly musicians. As well, DJs who compose their own music or are musicians in their own right are excluded from most portions of the above rant - When composing they are at least engineers and artists.

'nuff said. I say the above now just to put it on the record and not have to speak of it again. I also promise not to post on Mac/PC debates or Sasha threads ever again.
_________________
L8er
Monty Bréqs

Discuss...

i laughed hard at a few of those comments on there... he learned to mix in 2 weeks did he? well il bet my bottom dollar he's a ****in shit dj because Dj's never stop learning, even if its new tricks, new scratches, new techniques etc etc...

this title of this thread could be infinately better worded i.e "Is Ableton the biggest thing to happen to music performance"

[TechMouse]

"Isn't a pencil the most important thing to happen to drawing?"

Umm....

... well ...

... wasn't it?

[zaalmoetlos]

atleast the most important thing that has happened recently as it can take the whole scene in a, in my opinion, much needed new direction which has been long overdue.

[The Divide]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

[eyes without a face]

"Isn't a pencil the most important thing to happen to drawing?"

Umm....

... well ...

... wasn't it?

probably not, im guessing charcoal or chalk probably had a bigger impact, ive not seen many examples of cave paintings that were done with a nice HB pencil :lol: ;)

i dont think Reason is soley to blame, remember, even if using software that others deem below par, if u work hard enough you can get the desired results, its the people who literaly do rush releases out that are done in programs like Reason or Fruity Loops, i mean to the point where they actually do sound like they were done in the said program, they are the ones who get my goat up... it is possible to produce quality tracks with both, i dont think that was the debate here anyway...

[holotropik]

Ableton is an overrated piece of shit!!

Everyone is ranting on too much about it and they dont see how the punter sees it....as a dork with a laptop doing nothing but stare at a screen.

Its no different than any other program. It arranges stuff...so what!!

Oh thats right.....it makes it easy to say that you can play LIVE doesnt it and thats good for the EGO right now aint it.

It will back-fire I can tell you that coz it leaves itself open to cheating and cutting corners and therefore negates musicianship that is necessary for REAL performance magic. Go on kid yourself that its OK but you will leave it in the future coz it wont stick all by itself.....

[eyes without a face]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

exactly, ive yet to hear an actual production that was soley done in ableton, as pointed out it just enables a simpler method for playing your prerecorded stuff out, which to me doesnt mean it has an impact on the scene as a whole, certainly not the production side of things

[zaalmoetlos]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

if it's used to replace decks then it offers nothing new, when used creatively it does alow you to do stuff which cannot be done on decks and then it can push things in new directions imo

[Heroes]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

if you use the loop side to make tunes i agreee, but flip it over to tha arranger and you have it all really, it has midi, and most of all tight and stable without getting unwanted shuffle, you can programme drums, synths anything. control external equiptment change banks, sounds, you can do a hell of a lot of control and be very precise, if you choose to sample you can speed up production by not having nightmare pitch sessions trying to get it to fit. i wonder if the hip hop or rnb people bitch as much as the electronic mob about sampling......most of all i think it is evoluting production, but its evoluting as much as the people pressing the buttons wants it too.......if you dont dig deep you wont get the oil.........

[djfurness]

i just like the fact i can mix tunes ive made on it really....
not much else....
i aint really got onto it as much as i could yet....
i prefer traktor for mixing anyways.....only for my breakcore though.....
techno & dnb needs to be mixed on decks imo....
i agree that too many people may start billin themselves as live though....
like im playin tomorrow in Liverpool on my laptop....but i dont wanna be billed as 'live'.....im not live.....im mixing other musicians breakcore tunes that ive uploaded from record....and mixing friends tracks given to me on cd....
plus i wont just be starin at a screen neither....im gonna be dancin more than anyone in the room.....thats the only advantage i can gain from it!

[Komplex]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

exactly, ive yet to hear an actual production that was soley done in ableton, as pointed out it just enables a simpler method for playing your prerecorded stuff out, which to me doesnt mean it has an impact on the scene as a whole, certainly not the production side of things

If you have been listening to any form of music for the past two years, you would have heard dozens of tracks sequenced and produced in Abes without even knowing. Thats the beauty of it. If you have a decent background in the oldschool way of working on hardware, Ableton fits like a glove because of it's direct interface/workflow... infact you don't even need a background in any way of working. Just talent to write good tracks.

However just to clear things up, is this thread about writing and producing music or playing back music dj/semi live style? In any case, it has taken the scene by the throat and music is better for it. The performance aspect, actually seeing someone perform with it on a single laptop is quite lame but have techno live acts ever done more than stare into their gear pressing unknown buttons? It must be the flashy lights that make the difference ;) The image of a lot of gear makes the difference I guess and cheating can be done just as easily on a bunch of hardware boxes as it can when using a laptop. Except gear looks cooler. In any case, it comes down to the person using it. Two different people can use the same thing completely differently... one can do it half arsed one can rock it. One can play music you like, one can play music you hate.

[Komplex]

i agree that too many people may start billin themselves as live though....

Thats my only real problem. Where is the line drawn.

I remember a few years back I was booked to play live alongside an international who was also booked to play live. (Hi Adam ;) )

Spent a good few weeks getting material sorted on the gear, almost broke my back lugging 60 kilos of hardware and jammed out my set like I'd always done it, had a ball, music was great.

Later on it was the other live acts turn and its just Ableton a mixer and a looper. And it sounded ****ing great, the crowd loved it and he got paid more too :)

So I thought, why bother going to the extra trouble stuffing around with a crapload of obsolete hardware if someone can be booked as "live" and rock up with a laptop, still pull off a good set, if not better and get away with it. I was a bit pissed off but not too pissed off, it was time for a change and I just needed some convincing... So I decided to investigate and ended up buying a lappy and Abes myself. Best thing I ever did. Cut the kit list in half by replacing two samplers, the sequencer and the flexibility of what I could do live expanded a whole lot, and its a kick arse sequencer in the studio too.

So yeah I guess for me, it is the best thing to happen in techno. Is it good for the whole techno scene? Well that depends on who you are, where you're from, where you're at and where you're going... not to mention personal tastes and oppinions.

As for noobs getting their hands on this stuff... who really cares. It will take a few years to get to a decent level and pay dues anyway. And if they're still around and do a good job then I won't complain because personally, some of the current guys need to move aside or stop whining and lift their game.

Anyone who pumps out good music that I can actually enjoy gets my respect, whether noob or pro.

[xfive]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

exactly, ive yet to hear an actual production that was soley done in ableton, as pointed out it just enables a simpler method for playing your prerecorded stuff out, which to me doesnt mean it has an impact on the scene as a whole, certainly not the production side of things

All of my production is solely done in ableton.. I sometimes trigger gear with it.. sometimes not..
But start to finish its all within Live.

Do I think it's pushing techno in a new direction? Not really... I just like it's interface better than others.. it's faster for me.

[eyes without a face]

easy guys, i wasnt saying it couldnt be done, i was saying i literaly wasnt aware of anyone i knew using it, but Xfive is a good example id say because some of your tracks are sweet

interesting topic for sure, im starting to think Ableton is maybe a "marmite" program?

[slavestudios]

Just thought I'd quote tihs off the Abe's forum :)


OK. I don't want to add to the noise floor here anymore - I've got to put in my $0.02 once and not repeat myself on this, since I can see it comes up again and again. I have to get this off my chest, but I won't repeat the points below ever again. Ever. That's a promise.

(though I might link to this thread...)

1. The dumbing down of Live 5 into an automatic beat detecting grid based DJ tool is tragic, but necessary for the survival of the corporate entity that is Ableton.

2. This dumbing down of Live as stated in point 1 will saturate the digital music performance labour market with every pinhead with an mp3 collection.

3. This saturation of the market will also erode Live's reputation as a tool for creative performers and composers. Promoters and punters will soon look on Live sets disdainfully as nothing requiring talent at all - and in many cases they will be right.

4. This dumbing down exacerbates the fact (yes, fact) that DJing is inheirently a no-talent activity when compared to live music creation. Why?

4.a. It is much easier to identify a good track, than it is to compose one on the fly.

4.b. Regarding the arguement that a DJs real talent is reading the crowd, an improvisational musician does the same on a higher order of magnitude...

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

5. The arguement that "it's just about the music who cares how it's made" is infuriating. The lack of appreciation for effort and hard work is killing western civilization. The over-appreciation of DJs is just one of many symptoms of a sick society that values style over substance and worships immediate gratification without effort.

6. Turntablists are excluded from the above rant - they are truly musicians. As well, DJs who compose their own music or are musicians in their own right are excluded from most portions of the above rant - When composing they are at least engineers and artists.

'nuff said. I say the above now just to put it on the record and not have to speak of it again. I also promise not to post on Mac/PC debates or Sasha threads ever again.
_________________
L8er
Monty Bréqs

Discuss...



what a lot of self important bollox..

[slavestudios]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new


jesus.. more bollox..

midi ? ffs... lol




i have read some of the most steamin s**t ever on this one..

[slavestudios]

and eyes, as much as you agree with the midi vibe, are you not a FL Studio user ? :lol:


either way, i see it as the first real utility that bridges live & dj sets..

go see a guy called PHEEK use & let me know what ya think..



all this 'its not old skool' or 'laptops are lazy' bulls**t ? f**k that.. how many of you cart crates of kit on & off ferrys & trains ?



what load of toss :roll:

[xfive]

easy guys, i wasnt saying it couldnt be done, i was saying i literaly wasnt aware of anyone i knew using it, but Xfive is a good example id say because some of your tracks are sweet

interesting topic for sure, im starting to think Ableton is maybe a "marmite" program?

Heh thanks Scott ;)
I wasn't gettin mad.. I just wanted to give an example that it can be used to completely create from scratch with no pre-recorded audio.. As most of my tracks are all VST based.

It's probably safe to call it a marmite. :lol:

Then again it depends on what definition you go with....

marmite
To describe something that you either love or hate.

OR

marmite
Highly concentrated bodily fluid found between the cheeks of your arse. Collected by duvet goblins in the night and stored in jars and sold internationally as 'the growing up spread'. My mum made me eat it.

Damn Urban Dictionary.... :shock: :lol:

[slavestudios]

eyes, what difference does it make what a track was made on ?

if you aint heard any Live productions, can you tell us what those trax where made on ?

i dont think so..


or are you one of these 'a/d converter' experts who can recognise an application by sound alone :lol:


right, if Live aint the big bang i'm thinkin it is, what has happened thats important ? anyone ? or has nothing happened since the 4/4 was nailed down ?

[eyes without a face]

stop taking my comments out of context, where did i once say it mattered what tracks where made on? ive just bloody said u can get good results out of Reason, Fruity etc so if anything im defending the software that we lot use, ease up, ive been shown examples of people who use Ableton to produce which is all that is needed

u take things too extreme's, no ones saying Ableton isnt any good, but i think the views are split between favouring the software and some tending to think the actual music created within the software is more important, its a good program yeah but just another platform in an ever growing market, it plays loops, you can produce in it etc but at the end of the day its down to personal taste... and i think the boundaries between using ableton and and actually playing "live" is something else that people are on either side of the fence about

dont post topics asking for opinions and then question every aspect of the opinion when its already been explained! you obviously love Ableton but that doesnt mean everyone does, and you cant force these things on people ;)

[slavestudios]

stop taking my comments out of context, where did i once say it mattered what tracks where made on? ive just bloody said u can get good results out of Reason, Fruity etc so if anything im defending the software that we lot use, ease up, ive been shown examples of people who use Ableton to produce which is all that is needed

u take things too extreme's, no ones saying Ableton isnt any good, but i think the views are split between favouring the software and some tending to think the actual music created within the software is more important, its a good program yeah but just another platform in an ever growing market, it plays loops, you can produce in it etc but at the end of the day its down to personal taste... and i think the boundaries between using ableton and and actually playing "live" is something else that people are on either side of the fence about

dont post topics asking for opinions and then question every aspect of the opinion when its already been explained! you obviously love Ableton but that doesnt mean everyone does, and you cant force these things on people ;)



jeus relax man.. its jus a forum :lol:


and no i dont 'love' Live. i aint even used it tbh.. jus flipped around. bigger on Reason 3 at the mo..

the heat gettin to peepz or wha :lol: :lol: :lol:



but you gotta admit, you have popped at ppl over their use of Live in the past. thats fair renuff but quit the innocent shit huh :lol: :lol: :lol:


j/k geez ;)

[eyes without a face]

well if u dont use it then dont go on so much about it ;)

ive never had a pop at anyone for using Live, ive only ever gave my opinion on the program... innocent shit... really :roll:

:lol: ;)

[Heroes]

and eyes, as much as you agree with the midi vibe, are you not a FL Studio user ? :lol:


either way, i see it as the first real utility that bridges live & dj sets..

go see a guy called PHEEK use & let me know what ya think..



all this 'its not old skool' or 'laptops are lazy' bulls**t ? f**k that.. how many of you cart crates of kit on & off ferrys & trains ?


true, true, true, my rigs were 92 kilo, its fun until your dammage costs get more than your gig fee.......


what load of toss :roll:

[Heroes]

i just like to add that the main beef word here is "live" not the programme the actual concept, i think, a more acceptable word or realistic word would be PA, if we gonna delve deep and cut each other up about its true meaning then it will keep going back until we are drumming on skins to get a true live.......

[Heroes]

ive seen orbital play there whole sets on a 4 track, charge people through the nose for it, now thats one ****ing con.....

[slavestudios]

i consider anything that isnt pre-sequenced to be 'live' reagardless of what kit.

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..


more than a 50/50 margin of error makes it live... imo ;)

[Heroes]

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..

what about pressing play on a bunch of 909 rhythms and 303 patterns? iam not trying to cause beef but live is a lot more than just triggering things, ableton1, 2 and 3 to a point could have fallen into a loop trigger catagory but even then the boundaries of that loop manipulation were way beyond other stuff........ableton 4 is whatever ya want it to be and 5 is really beyond most stuff part from being a bit late with the freeze fuction........

[slavestudios]

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..

what about pressing play on a bunch of 909 rhythms and 303 patterns? iam not trying to cause beef but live is a lot more than just triggering things, ableton1, 2 and 3 to a point could have fallen into a loop trigger catagory but even then the boundaries of that loop manipulation were way beyond other stuff........ableton 4 is whatever ya want it to be and 5 is really beyond most stuff part from being a bit late with the freeze fuction........


no no man. toally understand. its cool.

if someone has a load of patterns in their 303 & 909 then jams them, thats live. i used to play live with MC303s & drumachines just on a midi clock. just manually changed patterns & muted things & added delays.

but i had to change things or it would be 1 hour of one pattern lol

and i used to **** up ny gettin the wrong pattern or a pattern not changing when ithought it was going to & muting the wrong channels lol

but thats where ya learn. makin mistakes is a huge part of learning to play live..

first time in a room of ppl you feel crap. after dozens of shows, ya just push on & get over it & try to make up with some cool trix lol


even if it was Reason & someone is using Matrix sequencers & Redrum & jus changin the patterns manually as they go.. theres a margin for error, so i see that as live..



ppl that press play on Cubase & stand at a desk jus using sweeps & fx ? dont get me started on these poxy c**ts :nono:

[gunjack]

this thread is dumb. one could be amazing and make sick tunes on a nose flute from borneo, or one could be rich and have a 50,000 dollar studio and make regressive trance. ableton, max msp or a nose flute, it depends on you.

[The Divide]

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new


jesus.. more bollox..

midi ? ffs... lol




i have read some of the most steamin s**t ever on this one..

Eeerrr ok

The kind of music, electronic or whatever involves constructional elements, I listen to the loop stuff aswell as more experimental sounds from the likes of amon tobin, autechre but Im only really just getting into that. Some of it is based around the drum patterns, fills, crescendos etc etc.

Don’t get me wrong, I know what live does I use it myself. It’s a good piece of software and has a good sound engine! But for production I prefer to step sequence, build patterns as appose to playing around with a load of loops. Yes you can do all that in Ableton, but it’s not the same, just like SX drum map editor isnt the same as using a step sequencer.

Seems to me like people go on about how ableton is the biggest thing in techno when to me anyways its just another sequencer with some nice easy to use functions. Perhaps as a performance tool it is an important thing for techno allowing people like myself to mix my own tracks together. The biggest thing to happen ever for techno? Hmmm what about all the techno around before ableton even existed? :roll:

The best thing to ever happen to techno for me would be the invention of the sampler, where would we be now without one? Where would we be without midi? But nah your right ableton made it all happen, most important thing ever. I believe you :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

title of the thread probably works better if you add "...in years" at the end, but i wouldn't really know, as i don't use ableton. i'd like to, as i've heard great things, but i've sort of gone down a different software path...

...but my guess is that what comes from it would vary tremendously based on the different people using it. again...no personal experience to back this up with, just a guess...

[xfive]

I love ableton live to BITS... it's all I use.

But no it's not revolutionizing techno.. as Divide said..
its just another sequencer with some nice easy to use functions.

That's how I see it... just a sequencer that works more a-kin to how my brain does... that's all.

Revolutionary would be a piece of software that had one button that says "MAKE TECHNO".

:lol: :lol:

Where would the fun and creativity in that be?


Honestly if anything... I wish they'd make the Notron again... I haven't used one but shit I'd love to... now THAT was some revolutionary gear.. :clap:

[slavestudios]

this thread is dumb.


opinions are great innit :lol:

[Joseph Isaac]

It seems like all, or at least most, of us here on this thread who are actively discussing this topic seem to falling back on the "technicality issue" of djing versus using Live and how any mindless amoeba can plug out a live set using Ableton. Again, i feel the point i made a while back is still true: the crowd does not give a rat's ass what you are doing, only djs and producers do. If it makes people bob their head or dance emphatically then great! If not, then it doesn't matter what medium you use, you're just simply not getting the job done.

[holotropik]

Yeah totally agree Joseph.....but its fun to sh*t-stir about it....only coz people treat it like some sort of sacred cow :P

[sash]

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

He must b a good dj then eh?....

[Komplex]

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

He must b a good dj then eh?....

hehe probably not. Altho he did say technical skills, which I guess he means beatmatching, cueing and eq'ing. Are there any other "technical" skills involved which I'm forgetting? These skills almost anyone (except the handicapped) can pick up to a certain level in a short period of time and thats not what makes a good djt... otherwise everyone who can beatmatch would be a good dj...

And when it comes to these disputes about ableton taking away beatmatching, its usually always the dj's who regard beatmatching as the crux of dj'ing that slag off abes and people who use it. They just become upset when suddenly beatmatching becomes obsolete but theres really nothing stopping people from continuing to mix on turntables with vinyl if they want to. It is a satisfying/fun experience afterall. Just not practical for everyone.