Live 5 is out

[g]

www.ableton.com

[BRADLEE]

I just downloaded it as well and registered it, but there is no place on the website yet to unlock it. Is there something I am missing???

[detfella]

i'm probably a lone voice but its a shame that so many people are using this software over the more interesting applications out there. doesn;t really feel like techno is at the forefront of technology to me

tbh i think the software is great and clearly its simplicity has generated a vast user base for it, but i find it its approach to linear, i suppose more interesting solutions will come when more involving interfaces are c=reated on which the performer can actually play live for real.

if we consider kraftwerk as early techno pioneers i'd say they are still ahead of what many people do tday as they built and moded equipment itself. max/msp i suppose can be used in a simlar fashion but it seems its more the electronica people that are using this for live performances. even then this program is old along with pd, seems like the electronica folk are more technologically advanced than the techno people to me. any thoughts? am i talking brociflower?

[MARKEG]

no you're not mate. i totally agree with you.

i do think ableton is a really great prog.

but then i think cubase is too.

and acid

and soundforge.. and fruity.. and blah blah blah.

i use a nice combination of all of them, either rewired or whatever. each prog offers something new and different thinking.

i've been getting into hardware sequencers too recently. some really innovative shit that makes things sing.

live is good, great even, but time for ppl to psh the boundaries by making their own sound using lots of different stuff.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[acidsaturation]

I think live offers a good "all in one" solution to make a job that people want to do (ie taking a laptop out and playing a set from it with minimum fuss), but I'm with Mark on this.

Use everything.

I still use the sequencer on my MC303 both live and to sequence riffs and loops to dump into other stuff like acid, 'cos hey, I've had it best part of 10 years so I know it inside out...

[RDR]

Agreed,i love using my mates RM1x. the sounds are shit...

but not after i've run em through me DP4..

hahahahaha!

if it works for you then WORK IT BITCH!

[acidsaturation]

He He...

I have an RM1-x gathering dust that I got cheap, it doesn't want to be my friend yet...

One day I'll crack it, but it pisses me off that when you change patterns it does it instantly not waiting 'till the end of the pattern.

Fine if yr quick and it's the only sequencer, but none of us can be ms accurate and then a few pattern changes and it's out of sync with the electribes...

[FIK]

I just downloaded it as well and registered it, but there is no place on the website yet to unlock it. Is there something I am missing???


I've unlocked my download a couple of hours a go, no problem there.

[xfive]

i'm probably a lone voice but its a shame that so many people are using this software over the more interesting applications out there. doesn;t really feel like techno is at the forefront of technology to me

tbh i think the software is great and clearly its simplicity has generated a vast user base for it, but i find it its approach to linear, i suppose more interesting solutions will come when more involving interfaces are c=reated on which the performer can actually play live for real.

if we consider kraftwerk as early techno pioneers i'd say they are still ahead of what many people do tday as they built and moded equipment itself. max/msp i suppose can be used in a simlar fashion but it seems its more the electronica people that are using this for live performances. even then this program is old along with pd, seems like the electronica folk are more technologically advanced than the techno people to me. any thoughts? am i talking brociflower?




Erm

If you use ableton in a completely Live sense.. it's not linear at all.
That's what most people fail to see..

If you really dig in and use the follow actions, combined with a good controller and proper mappings, its FAR from linear.

It's called a "Sequencing Instrument" for a reason. You are SUPPOSED to jam on it like a piece of gear. Got to break out of it mentally before you can really see the difference.

;)


I think too many people jump into it and all they see are clips and the arrangement view to place the clips in to linearly lay out your track.
That is the problem.

[jimmy west]

the old abelton arguement again ehhhhhhhh

[xfive]

the old abelton arguement again ehhhhhhhh

Stating a fact actually.

You've either used it both ways or not.

[g]

the old abelton arguement again ehhhhhhhh

Stating a fact actually.

You've either used it both ways or not.
exactly.


...i find it its approach to linear, i suppose more interesting solutions will come when more involving interfaces are c=reated on which the performer can actually play live for real.
no offense, but you don't know the app very well.

it's extremely non-linear. it's non-linearity is probably the single greatest thing about it. i've been using it since version 1.5 and it has *completely* changed the way i think about music production. i now get hives if i look at a traditional, time-based sequencer.

and even since version 1, if you dig into what it offers in a live performance situation it's arguably the most "live" you can get.

[FILTERZ]

i use it live, its great , but i still make all my tunes in cubase, cant imagine using ableton to write a finished tune though , allthough im sure its fantastic. I dont think it matters one little bit what you use its the end result that matters surely . At the end of the day none of these programs are that much different to each other. ;)

[detfella]

i'm probably a lone voice but its a shame that so many people are using this software over the more interesting applications out there. doesn;t really feel like techno is at the forefront of technology to me

tbh i think the software is great and clearly its simplicity has generated a vast user base for it, but i find it its approach to linear, i suppose more interesting solutions will come when more involving interfaces are c=reated on which the performer can actually play live for real.

if we consider kraftwerk as early techno pioneers i'd say they are still ahead of what many people do tday as they built and moded equipment itself. max/msp i suppose can be used in a simlar fashion but it seems its more the electronica people that are using this for live performances. even then this program is old along with pd, seems like the electronica folk are more technologically advanced than the techno people to me. any thoughts? am i talking brociflower?




Erm

If you use ableton in a completely Live sense.. it's not linear at all.
That's what most people fail to see..

If you really dig in and use the follow actions, combined with a good controller and proper mappings, its FAR from linear.

It's called a "Sequencing Instrument" for a reason. You are SUPPOSED to jam on it like a piece of gear. Got to break out of it mentally before you can really see the difference.

;)


I think too many people jump into it and all they see are clips and the arrangement view to place the clips in to linearly lay out your track.
That is the problem.

good to hear your thoughts, i've used the follow actions, mini loops, mega loops, and spent hours wa\rping old funk/jazz tracks with the tempo going all over the place. i have about 10 templates inside my remote25 that i set up to control the vsts (have to say the midi learn function is amazing). thing is all the warping is acheived before hand and there is little that can go wrong within a set, the major plus for me is when people set up vsti and play them in real time but for me as a drummer the response time is just not good enough compared to a real acoustic kit.

i think my problem is when i compare it to musical instruments eg a drum kit, the feel and groove comes across as part of the performer and not just tracks and sequenced events and its also a visual treat. i'm eager to see what new controllers are created for ableton. although i enjoy using my remote i dont feel it offers total control, eg i cant slam the faders about like on a dj mixer, for me the experience is too controlled, too safe and unlike a drum kit can't just go nuts and let out that emotion rush. i'm thinking i might develop something that can be used as a controller which would then be able to be used in conjunction with ableton, but i feel apps like audiomulch, bidule and max/msp are more up my street and allow further musical chaos and freedom. maybe i should try rewiring bidule with ableton and see how that flows.


no offense, but you don't know the app very well.

none taken, but i havent read anything that i havent tried with the app. to me it lacks the freedom of a real instrument in a live scenario and btw i mainly use it as a mixing tool and not something to create tracks from. i'm not really sure how well you need to know the app is seems kinda simple to me, surely the biggest learning curve is how to use the vst and vstis effectively with it in real time?

i think i'm just ready to further explore devices/controllers that suit my needs or just go forth and develop them myself instead, just need to make sure that they can respond as effectively as an acoustic instrument...or am i just unaware of what controllers actually do a better job compared to my remote?

my last point in this some what random post of mine is,,,i'm not too interested in watching someone perform live behind a laptop (no matter how good the music), it just doesnt do anything for me, i wanna see some flair behind a dj stand (why else are they are focal point in clubs-otherwise just shove them in the corner). maybe with new control devices that appear on the market, there will be something visually entertaining. i love watching drummers like buddy rich go ape behind his drum kit. i suppose duracell has been a recent example of something that turns me on

[FILTERZ]

Well i use a laptop to play live i also use a few drum machines, sampler,
analog synths and a huge desk and effects , If i remove the laptop , are you interested then ?

[detfella]

i'm interested in anything with a performance, i'm not saying a laptop prohibits it, i just dont like to watch a point & click exercise. i know the laptop can be used as a great control device, but without making a verdict on your performance i'd wanna know what you were doing with the drum machines, sampler & effects... ;) have you got audio/video clips i could check out?

do u come off stage pouring with sweat cos you almost lost control whilst playing real time?

[xfive]

I completely agree on the control issue, I don't like the laptop in that aspect either.. but if you get the control down well you'd only need the screen as a reference to see what is playing currently.

It's completely up to you really.. I think with a properly mapped faderbank as well as something like a trigger finger, you could do some nice things.

Check this video out (it's not really techno but you could totally do similar things in techno):

Video (http://m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.video&ID=a80b9e869c88944562e2d3 a191c74b0f)

:twisted:

[detfella]

no sound on this pc :doh:, wish there was a way i could save it... looks pretty cool tho, seen it before and reminded me of the small akai drum trigger. playing with fingers tho,, hmm maybe someone should invent some kind of spoon playing controller as well and let this guy grace the stage :lol:

http://khoomei.com/videos/haispoon.mov

[g]

check out mathew jonson live sometime. his live sets are ableton-based but include a lot of hardware. nearly all the control is done from the mixer and controllers.. i don't think you would leave his show thinking you'd seen a point and click exercise.

on the other hand, maybe we should all perform behind black curtains. who cares what's going on on stage/in the booth, isn't it what comes out the speakers that matters?

[massplanck]

on the other hand, maybe we should all perform behind black curtains. who cares what's going on on stage/in the booth, isn't it what comes out the speakers that matters?

no. I wouldnt like *not* to see George Clinton & his 25 peice band *not* behind a black curtain *not* Same goes for Neubauten and a billion other artists.

Entertainment is for your eyes too... if not then just stay at home and stick on the CD. ;)