VINYL or MP3?

[networker]

lets have a little discussion on the pros and cons
wiv you techno jocks mixin it up with vinyl or mp3s.

has anyone out there actually bought a CD deck?

[primevil]

get out more :roll:

[lau]

:shock:

[dan the acid man]

read the techno arguments thread :doh:

[eyes without a face]

NEWBIE ALERT NEWBIE ALERT

[Heroes]

oh for the love of christ

[davethedrummer]

hey man don't listen to them they're just sour old men!
firstly ....
hello and welcome to the board
i hope you enjoy your time here
secondly...
sorry but we have been discussing this very topic for what seems like an eternity now , so i'm afraid your question is a real forum cliche.
so maybe read back through some of the old posts and get a feel for what has been discussed already , and if you feel you have something new to add then go ahead and add it.

[eyes without a face]

id of said something similiar to Henry, but the very words "vinyl vs mp3" just sent me a bit odd

[davethedrummer]

id of said something similiar to Henry, but the very words "vinyl vs mp3" just sent me a bit odd

yeah i know what you mean , it kind of starts with a small twitch and works its way into a scream.....

[eyes without a face]

thats exactly it, it died down quickly tho but i can feel that twitch again, altho it might just be wind. Fingers crossed

[dirty_bass]

hehe

Hello mate, and welcome to the forum.
Yeh, this old chestnut has been chewed on so much it`s flavour has long gone.
Do a search and you`ll find peoples feelings on the matter.

[dan the acid man]

can i open my eyes yet

[audioinjection]

its all about the vinyl :rambo: :rambo: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

[g]

Hello mate, and welcome to the forum.
Yeh, this old chestnut has been chewed on so much it`s flavour has long gone.
Do a search and you`ll find peoples feelings on the matter.
what i was gonna say...

[jonnyspeed]

I know he's new but i reckon he deserves a warning for that ;p

[MARKEG]

oh come on guys, there's no need to have a go at networker for this.

mp3? vinyl? well let's go - round two thousand and five.

immediately i'd say vinyl..

but after probs with needle skipping and such a lack of good vinyl and great d/l's i have to say i'm worried.

:(

[networker]

well i'd just like to say at this point, that unless everyone continues to support their local independant record shop, aswell as the artist and labels that you all enjoy, that create the scene that you are all a part of, you can all kiss techno bye bye. then you'll all have something to bitch about and you will have done it to yourselves.
every time you download underground music for free, you are kickin the people that you are into in the f***in nuts.
wakey wakey!!!!
its happening right now and you dont even f***in know it.
this was never intended to be a thread about which is better, or trying to bring back your age old threads for another lap around the block. it's a wake up call to all you drongos that are killing underground music. the major labels may be able to lose out on a few million quid here and there. thats a minor dent for the big boys, but the underground cannot sustain it indefinately.
go and buy some f***in tunes and keep techno alive!!!!!

[dirty_bass]

well i'd just like to say at this point, that unless everyone continues to support their local independant record shop, aswell as the artist and labels that you all enjoy, that create the scene that you are all a part of, you can all kiss techno bye bye. then you'll all have something to bitch about and you will have done it to yourselves.
every time you download underground music for free, you are kickin the people that you are into in the f***in nuts.
wakey wakey!!!!
its happening right now and you dont even f***in know it.
this was never intended to be a thread about which is better, or trying to bring back your age old threads for another lap around the block. it's a wake up call to all you drongos that are killing underground music. the major labels may be able to lose out on a few million quid here and there. thats a minor dent for the big boys, but the underground cannot sustain it indefinately.
go and buy some f***in tunes and keep techno alive!!!!!

Erm, I don`t think you need to lecture anyone here.
We are all painfully aware of how downloads have affected things.
There are a fair few of us who run labels and deal with the sharp end of this shit, and for the most part, it seems the majority of people around here do want to support the scene.
So you are right, but maybe you should have done some homework and gone through some back posts to see everyones attitude in regards to this. Lecture not needed.
And MP3 is here to stay, time to embrace it, and get on top of it, before it gets on top of us.

[networker]

I know he's new but i reckon he deserves a warning for that ;p


i might be new to your site, but it looks to me like it should be a warning to ALL concerned here.
if your spinnin your new traxx on the dance floor from a CD before you get them cut and pressed, you've got a licence to rock.
if your sellin your 1210's for CD decks and "free" tunes for the rest of your life, you need hunting down and shooting for what can only be described as f***in treason

[eyes without a face]

I know he's new but i reckon he deserves a warning for that ;p


i might be new to your site, but it looks to me like it should be a warning to ALL concerned here.
if your spinnin your new traxx on the dance floor from a CD before you get them cut and pressed, you've got a licence to rock.
if your sellin your 1210's for CD decks and "free" tunes for the rest of your life, you need hunting down and shooting for what can only be described as f***in treason

i dont think your going the right way about things here, Jonny's comment was obviously tongue in cheek, a joke

seems you've jumped straight in without checking the numerous, and i mean numerous, posts about this on these forums, which is understandable as your new here but seriously do a check on this topic here and you'l find everyone's views on the matters at hand and as Steve said you dont need to lecture everyone here about it, especially in such an aggressive manner :rambo: ;)

[Sunil]

you need hunting down and shooting for what can only be described as f***in treason

That's the spirit :clap: :rambo:

[dan the acid man]

oooh, seems that this huge vinyl collection i have precariously perched on the shelf above my pc, and on the shelving unit next to me, the records i dont play as much on a shelf at the back of me, and my latest players on the floor to the left of me isnt real, as i spend all my time illegally downloading, well by your accounts anyway :doh:

[networker]

oooh, seems that this huge vinyl collection i have precariously perched on the shelf above my pc, and on the shelving unit next to me, the records i dont play as much on a shelf at the back of me, and my latest players on the floor to the left of me isnt real, as i spend all my time illegally downloading, well by your accounts anyway
_________________

yo dan,
even though you might have a ton of vinyl waitin to commit suicide, i didnt actually say it was illegal, but at the end of the day it could look like your pissin on your own bonfire if you are indeed spendin all your time downloadin joints off the net :shock:

[jonnyspeed]

the only way forward is to steal a copy of Reason off t'internet and jam live. absolute minimum cost, maximum revenue.

wikka wikka

[dan the acid man]

yo dan,
even though you might have a ton of vinyl waitin to commit suicide, i didnt actually say it was illegal, but at the end of the day it could look like your pissin on your own bonfire if you are indeed spendin all your time downloadin joints off the net :shock:

wtf are you on about, ive never downloaded any techno mp3's illegally, like you so rightly pointed out, we need to support the scene to keep i alive, so i dont take kindly to people accusing me of stealing music

[networker]

the only way forward is to steal a copy of Reason off t'internet and jam live. absolute minimum cost, maximum revenue.

wikka wikka

off t'internet lad? sweet as bro ;)
i'd love to hear something that sounds sonically good that somebody actually put togather using reason. it looks cool, and its a piece of piss to run, but ya gotta admit m8 it does sound like shit :cry:

[jonnyspeed]

na - new version of reason is phat. way good enough to bang out some tekkers on.

[networker]

na - new version of reason is phat. way good enough to bang out some tekkers on.

sweet as m8 ;)

send me your lovely demos

[Jay Pace]

sweet as m8 ;)

send me your lovely demos

And send them on Vinyl. You parasite. MP3s are bad.

Yawn.

*tchoh*
:roll:

[RDR]

Good lord. The fella's a bit millitant. ;)

Come on NW, have a go. Im sure ya mother told you "Never play with objects sharper than you"

hehehehe!

[TechMouse]

well i'd just like to say at this point, that unless everyone continues to support their local independant record shop, aswell as the artist and labels that you all enjoy, that create the scene that you are all a part of, you can all kiss techno bye bye. then you'll all have something to bitch about and you will have done it to yourselves.
every time you download underground music for free, you are kickin the people that you are into in the f***in nuts.
wakey wakey!!!!
its happening right now and you dont even f***in know it.
this was never intended to be a thread about which is better, or trying to bring back your age old threads for another lap around the block. it's a wake up call to all you drongos that are killing underground music. the major labels may be able to lose out on a few million quid here and there. thats a minor dent for the big boys, but the underground cannot sustain it indefinately.
go and buy some f***in tunes and keep techno alive!!!!!

Well, that's made my morning...

[gumpy green]

mp3 are better cos u can get em for free without leavin the house.

everyday i get in from work i can spin 100 new tunes.

thats for folks who are lame tho....not me.

i got the bling bling £££££££dollaz$$$$$ mutha fuka and i be P I M P I N G tha real deal wax suka.

got many a crate up in me room bling-in right up.....

[RDR]

mp3 are better cos u can get em for free without leavin the house.

everyday i get in from work i can spin 100 new tunes.

thats for folks who are lame tho....not me.

i got the bling bling £££££££dollaz$$$$$ mutha fuka and i be P I M P I N G tha real deal wax suka.

got many a crate up in me room bling-in right up.....

You got wax records? they cant last very long!

[gumpy green]

wax is da real deal name for tha vinyl...

u can only call em by this name if you a ganta tho.

[RDR]

wax is da real deal name for tha vinyl...

u can only call em by this name if you a ganta tho.

No!!! Really?

Wax? Thats mad...

[gumpy green]

wax is da real deal name for tha vinyl...

u can only call em by this name if you a ganta tho.

No!!! Really?

Wax? Thats mad...im only playing...

honesty- you never haerd of records being called wax b4.????

[networker]

mp3 are better cos u can get em for free without leavin the house.

everyday i get in from work i can spin 100 new tunes.

thats for folks who are lame tho....not me.

i got the bling bling £££££££dollaz$$$$$ mutha fuka and i be P I M P I N G tha real deal wax suka.

got many a crate up in me room bling-in right up.....

yo player. work is for losers, and it looks to me like you need a better pimp handle. pimpafy yo'self holmes

http://www.playerappreciate.com/pimphandle.asp

;)

[RDR]

wax is da real deal name for tha vinyl...

u can only call em by this name if you a ganta tho.

No!!! Really?

Wax? Thats mad...im only playing...

honesty- you never haerd of records being called wax b4.????

Course i have ya plank!!!

hahahahahaha :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I felt like a cat with a half dead mouse there for a bit... hehehe Mwahahaha!

;)

[gumpy green]

yo player. work is for losers, and it looks to me like you need a better pimp handle. pimpafy yo'self holmes

http://www.playerappreciate.com/pimphandle.asp

;)

got me handle- Big Playah dj Silk

yo know me, work aint nutin but fun.........cook in steal pots ;)

[networker]

yo player. work is for losers, and it looks to me like you need a better pimp handle. pimpafy yo'self holmes

http://www.playerappreciate.com/pimphandle.asp

;)

got me handle- Big Playah dj Silk

yo know me, work aint nutin but fun.........cook in steal pots ;)

oh yeah Big Playah, i'm diggin that like MF. spread it on holmes :lol:

[dan the acid man]

im struggling to read these posts :doh:

[TechMouse]

im struggling to read these posts :doh:
You're not missing much.

[gumpy green]

except that you cant wear a mp3 on a piece of string around your neck like i do with 12"......


BLING BLING out to all you audio compression SUkAZ.


;)

[networker]

except that you cant wear a mp3 on a piece of string around your neck like i do with 12"......


BLING BLING out to all you audio compression SUkAZ.


;)


yeah mate. :clap:

lets have a surge of releases on gold vinyln and really get somethin goin here bro

[gumpy green]

u know it to be true.....


this is the way forward-

http://www.kidrobot.com/images/specimages/s-rndmc8jmj-2.jpg


DO THAT WITH AN MP3 you SUKA'Z

[tocsin]

MP3 and here is why.

1.) Vinyl snobs, particularly when they are techno heads listening to music that is often made with digital instruments, are annoying. Suggesting that one would even think about DJing with a CD could actually give such a person a stroke under the right circumstances. Thus, just to give the anal little fukcs something to bitch about, I will always side with MP3 until MP3 snobs begin to exist and outnumber the vinyl snobs.

2.) MP3 has made piracy easy. Piracy has given the industry, and numerous piss poor artists, an immeasurable excuse that sales are hurting because of pirated MP3s, and not a crappy selection of boring and predictable music. I love the techno has-beens of the past too much to let them know that a good reason why a number of their albums don't sell as hot is because they don't sound any different than they did 10 years ago. But, that's only the reason when they don't suck because they sound different than they did 10 years ago. Either way, yeah, it's MP3's fault and, therefore, saves some egos.

3.) Expanding on number 2, I can burn MP3s to CD, or use some digital DJ format, to play music at clubs. I enjoy doing this because it's amusing to see the artists bitch about people playing pirated versions of their songs which they spent days working on and properly EQing all the uncleared samples within the songs themselves. Pimpin' aint easy.

;)

[Jay Pace]

Tocsin you beauty!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[networker]

Pimpin' aint easy. ;)[/quote]

shit yeah m8, lets back the underdogs until they become the favourites, then when all the independant stores go under we can all bitch about the good old daze as usual. that's gotta be true to form eh bro? i can see the threads appearin already. tee hee

pimpin' made easier

http://www.playerappreciate.com/pimphandle.asp

[dan the acid man]

MP3 and here is why.

1.) Vinyl snobs, particularly when they are techno heads listening to music that is often made with digital instruments, are annoying. Suggesting that one would even think about DJing with a CD could actually give such a person a stroke under the right circumstances. Thus, just to give the anal little fukcs something to bitch about, I will always side with MP3 until MP3 snobs begin to exist and outnumber the vinyl snobs.

2.) MP3 has made piracy easy. Piracy has given the industry, and numerous piss poor artists, an immeasurable excuse that sales are hurting because of pirated MP3s, and not a crappy selection of boring and predictable music. I love the techno has-beens of the past too much to let them know that a good reason why a number of their albums don't sell as hot is because they don't sound any different than they did 10 years ago. But, that's only the reason when they don't suck because they sound different than they did 10 years ago. Either way, yeah, it's MP3's fault and, therefore, saves some egos.

3.) Expanding on number 2, I can burn MP3s to CD, or use some digital DJ format, to play music at clubs. I enjoy doing this because it's amusing to see the artists bitch about people playing pirated versions of their songs which they spent days working on and properly EQing all the uncleared samples within the songs themselves. Pimpin' aint easy.

;)

are you serious, even if the whole techno scene went to legal downloadable mp3's instead of vinyl, you'd still get people stealing music for free, just because they can.
yes, some of the blame in poor sales can be attributed to poor music, and an influx of people releasing poor music, just because theythink having loads of software on their pcs and this makes them a producer :lol:

but theres also alot of people stealing music they love, just because its so easy and cheaper for them.
so you will still get this no matter what you do

[tocsin]

are you serious

What do you think?





































Hint: Answer is both "yes" and "no." ;)

[dan the acid man]

so is that a maybe then :lol:

[tocsin]

Hehe. Nah. I really do prefer MP3 (or to be more honest "digital") to vinyl. Reason #1 is mostly honest, believe it or not. ;) Two and 3 were just piss takes.

People have laid down their arguments for vinyl and MP3 over and over and over again and they haven't changed at all since the first time I saw one.

So, my main reasons for preferring MP3.

1.) No "Wow and Flutter," humming or any other type of feedback associated with turn table technology.
2.) No panning limitations. I often pan the shit out of my kick drums in tracks and, when cut to vinyl, the force of that effect is lost to a substantial degree. Not with digital though.
3.) Ease of distribution.

Don't care if anyone else really likes digital or MP3. But, I am tired of hearing how one is so much better than the other. To all the people listening to a purely analog record for the first time on a super-expensive suspended yuppie audiophile system, sure I'll humor that the one play of that record is so beautiful as to make you reach an orgasm that mp3 never could. But, for the money spent, I'd rather just wait a year or two for the artist who wrote the track to come around and pay $25 at most to hear it live. ;)
I will never have any dedication to a medium that noticably limits what I like to do. Vinyl does that. I'm looking forward to when DVD decks become affordable and, hopefully, can output video with sound to make for an all in one VJ/DJ experience.

[francois]

call me old fashioned, but mp3 over a large PA just doesnt have the same sound quality, fine, mp3's are great for d/loading and checking out new stuff but when it comes to the dynamics of sound you cannot beat wax

[g]

because large PAs, which are most often mono and really poorly cared for, sound so good in the audiophile sense?

i've heard more than enough 256kbps mp3s played simultaneously with vinyl. 99% of the time you can't tell. or they sound better, depending on the mastering.



all this is to say nothing of personal preference for one vs the other, which i'll stay away from. but arguing the sound of (good) mp3s on a club system is... not an argument.

[Heroes]

The mp3 dj thing is good for people who want to play collect, and have a varied choice, without paying £7.00 for a vinyl they only like one track on. utopian concept, dosnt work that way though, the attitude at presenet is in a virgin state, ive not met a mp3 dj who plays tracks he bought most are borrowed, downloaded, swapped, whatever you wanna call it, oooh hold on then one more to add, "thieved" its a good way for some people to break who dont have the funds to otherwise persue, but its a destructive way across the board, digital will be as much a breaker as it will be a maker.....i cant wait until you grafted months on albums only to see sales not even cover ya rent.......but please remember to send me a copy. well no leave it ill download a copy from soul seeker, because my sister, her mate, her mates mum, her mates mums auntie, wants a copy to......Ah f**k it while iam at it iam doing a car boot sunday ill burn a few more copies, cheeeeers.

[networker]

The mp3 dj thing is good for people who want to play collect, and have a varied choice, without paying £7.00 for a vinyl they only like one track on. utopian concept, dosnt work that way though, the attitude at presenet is in a virgin state, ive not met a mp3 dj who plays tracks he bought most are borrowed, downloaded, swapped, whatever you wanna call it, oooh hold on then one more to add, "thieved" its a good way for some people to break who dont have the funds to otherwise persue, but its a destructive way across the board, digital will be as much a breaker as it will be a maker.....i cant wait until you grafted months on albums only to see sales not even cover ya rent.......but please remember to send me a copy. well no leave it ill download a copy from soul seeker, because my sister, her mate, her mates mum, her mates mums auntie, wants a copy to......Ah f**k it while iam at it iam doing a car boot sunday ill burn a few more copies, cheeeeers.

once again m8 you've hit the nail right on the f***in head :clap:
ouch!!!

[dirty_bass]

True dis.
When it becomes so prevalent, and all the artists we respect can no longer afford to make music any more.
We will all lose.

[Jay Pace]

i cant wait until you grafted months on albums only to see sales not even cover ya rent

Dj gigs still pay pretty well.

A lot of labels treat their records like expensive business cards or promotional material. Then they reap the rewards through the nights they promote, and through their artist fees.

MP3 is here to stay. Its going to be a painful few years until the distribution models catch up, but the talented and the organised will see it through.

People are willing to pay - but at the moment it is easier and more convienient to steal. This will change.

[networker]

True dis.
When it becomes so prevalent, and all the artists we respect can no longer afford to make music any more.
We will all lose.


at last people are startin to get the real drift of this thread

[Komplex]

Yeah so now that we've come to the realisation once again (again, and again) that nothing stops piracy (not mp3, not vinyl, not nothing), why not just let people choose to use whatever the fukc they want? and stop whining about the fact that some people don't like the same thing that you like... digital formats aren't the issue... get over it.

[Komplex]

True dis.
When it becomes so prevalent, and all the artists we respect can no longer afford to make music any more.
We will all lose.


at last people are startin to get the real drift of this thread

what, that artists can't afford to make music because of mp3's?... riiight. there's a bit more to it than that. how many times can you re-arrange a one bar loop and expect people to want to buy it is a good place to start.

[networker]

True dis.
When it becomes so prevalent, and all the artists we respect can no longer afford to make music any more.
We will all lose.


at last people are startin to get the real drift of this thread

what, that artists can't afford to make music because of mp3's?... riiight. there's a bit more to it than that. how many times can you re-arrange a one bar loop and expect people to want to buy it is a good place to start.

so are your sayin that the reason that sales of techno has dropped off is because most techno is shit :?:

[tocsin]

True dis.
When it becomes so prevalent, and all the artists we respect can no longer afford to make music any more.
We will all lose.

Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


*GASP*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

"Damn it, Ma! Life was grand. The world was my oyster. I could make all this music and was free to do so. But, MP3 ruined it all and I just can't afford to do it anymore as a result. Curse you Fraunhofer! CUUUURRRRRSSSEEEE YYYYOOOOUUUUU!"

Honestly, anyone who could say with a straight face that they can't "afford" to make music anymore, rather than that they just don't feel like doing it, and blame it on MP3 is not anyone I'd consider a loss if they stopped. I'd consider them a ****ing crybaby who, for supposedly being so into technology, is unbelievably technophobic. **** em. :p

[dirty_bass]

I`m all for MP3.
I`m against theft. Plain and simple.
Many respected people will just plain lose heart and give up. Some already have.
It is tough and disheartening seeing all your hard work get devalued, and it can easily tip you over into defeat.
Despite your words, and your rather callous comments, this is the way it is. The music biz is cold enough as it is. We don`t need it getting any colder.

[tocsin]

I`m all for MP3.
I`m against theft. Plain and simple.

So I take it then that you have paid for EVERYTHING you've ever used?


Many respected people will just plain lose heart and give up. Some already have.

That's their issue. Piracy has always been around and isn't going anywhere.


It is tough and disheartening seeing all your hard work get devalued, and it can easily tip you over into defeat.
Despite your words, and your rather callous comments, this is the way it is. The music biz is cold enough as it is. We don`t need it getting any colder.

For every one artist that can pretend they can't afford to do it anymore, 10 will pop up of which at least 1 will have new innovative ideas. I'm not concerned.

[Heroes]

what, that artists can't afford to make music because of mp3's?... riiight. there's a bit more to it than that. how many times can you re-arrange a one bar loop and expect people to want to buy it is a good place to start.

theres a bit more to it than this also, all waffle about rearranged 1 bar loops, another philosopher in the accusation department, maybee goes for some but not for all......

[Heroes]

Honestly, anyone who could say with a straight face that they can't "afford" to make music anymore, rather than that they just don't feel like doing it, and blame it on MP3 is not anyone I'd consider a loss if they stopped. I'd consider them a **** crybaby who, for supposedly being so into technology, is unbelievably technophobic. **** em. :p

grant ya there are a few people coming through who are making some noise, but look what a cheap pc & cracked software has yeilded, an overkilled 95% bucket of tripe for a scene, and thats the same across all genres, ive lived through the cd age and it was great, but when piracy is so rife its tough to break even on an album tosser sorry "toscin" its pretty hard to stay focussed when ya day gig is an 8 to 10 shift seven days a week, which yeilds no more than a f*****g basic wage of a paperboy if ya lucky "we will se how long you last", were not the money hunters or we would be sold up years ago so the money attack pisses me off big time, you wanna be thankfull were still around recruiting the new blood and at least doing our bit instead of the other rats who are now probably bailed out into house and hip hop because sales are still ok there or better to a degree. i dunno about you but i miss the annual cd album release days of black dog, autechre, lfo, bockhum welt, there gone my freinds and i fear for good. to be replaced with what? a record industry edjucated on little to no forsight for what real digital destrucion will yield, i mean is your choice for a future "close enounters of the 3rd kind" or "pre set production of the disposable mind" . tosser sorry "toscin" its not analog over digital its not vynle over mp3, its about a little respect and contibuting to something you think worths contributing too..and not free riding your collection at the peril of others

look at the class of 90 through to 96 the last proper analog years really with very very very little piracy apart from the swap dat thing the goa heads had going for a few years, is it really coomparable today? have we progressed? has digital been a saviour or a slayer? to a point its giving less choice for consumer beause me like many others are tired of going minus on some nice cd albums.

[networker]

once again back its the incredible :clap:

[tocsin]

grant ya there are a few people coming through who are making some noise, but look what a cheap pc & cracked software has yeilded, an overkilled 95% bucket of tripe for a scene, and thats the same across all genres,

Funny. I look at the cracked or cheap software as being responsible for some of my favorite tracks which paved the way for more. If it was for people using Tracker programs, a lot of stuff I enjoyed wouldn't have come to be. And people have pissed and moaned in the same way you have about that program. As music gets more popular, you're bound to hear things you don't like. That's just how it goes.


ive lived through the cd age and it was great, but when piracy is so rife its tough to break even on an album tosser sorry "toscin" its pretty hard to stay focussed when ya day gig is an 8 to 10 shift seven days a week, which yeilds no more than a f*****g basic wage of a paperboy if ya lucky

Not my problem. I can work my day job just fine, survive and continue making music, amongst many other things. I'm just so sick of hearing people bitch about "piracy" in the same manner as the RIAA. Not surprising though. As music goes popular, it also tends to go corporate.


"we will se how long you last", were not the money hunters or we would be sold up years ago so the money attack pisses me off big time, you wanna be thankfull were still around recruiting the new blood and at least doing our bit instead of the other rats who are now probably bailed out into house and hip hop because sales are still ok there or better to a degree.

I really don't care. No offense. If piracy is killing someone, it simply tells me they haven't adapted to the times. Or, by chance, their target audience now finds them boring. Such is the nature of pop music.


i dunno about you but i miss the annual cd album release days of black dog, autechre, lfo, bockhum welt, there gone my freinds and i fear for good. to be replaced with what? a record industry edjucated on little to no forsight for what real digital destrucion will yield, i mean is your choice for a future "close enounters of the 3rd kind" or "pre set production of the disposable mind"

Nope. My expectation for a future is simply some good music I enjoy. I don't really care to get anal over presets and such. If that aspect annoyed me, I'd have stopped listening to music that predominantly used a TR-909 or TB-303 many years ago. But, I'm still listening to it and still hear stuff I enjoy. I care not to over-analize "techno" music to the point of seriously bitching if someused a preset. Seriously, who gives a ****?


sorry "toscin" its not analog over digital its not vynle over mp3, its about a little respect and contibuting to something you think worths contributing too..and not free riding your collection at the peril of others

What's funny is, I don't know too many DJs who are seriously into a label or music that simply pirate everything. Hence, I call bullshit.


look at the class of 90 through to 96 the last proper analog years really with very very very little piracy apart from the swap dat thing the goa heads had going for a few years, is it really coomparable today?

Right. Because distributing mixtapes of other peoples' music wasn't piracy? Oh, wait. That was ok, right? It's just not ok now for some reason if it's on a computer rather than a cassette? Come on.


have we progressed?

Yes.


has digital been a saviour or a slayer?

From a creativity and distribution standpoint, it's been a savior for nearly every style of music I enjoy.


to a point its giving less choice for consumer beause me like many others are tired of going minus on some nice cd albums.

Labels and artists give less choice to the consumer, not a technology that opens doors for people who want to see what's there. Seriously, I'm just getting tired of hearing all the different excuses that bag on technology in an effort to explain why some peoples' records no longer sell. Everybody needs a scapegoat I guess but I just find it incredibly ironic when "techno" artists or labels scapegoat technology.

[Heroes]

quote: I really don't care. No offense. If piracy is killing someone, it simply tells me they haven't adapted to the times. Or, by chance, their target audience now finds them boring. Such is the nature of pop music.

piracy tells me they havnt adapted to the times? woowwwwww what a comment, no i dare say you dont care because your getting stuff for jack, great attitude, well wait and see when your jobs taken by the next technology. or even better still put ya self through college right code for a programme that takes years and then go and see your missed revenue on soulseeker, i think youll have a differnt tune to whistle too...great moral thinking way you have......or should i say its the new modern attitude....


quote: What's funny is, I don't know too many DJs who are seriously into a label or music that simply pirate everything. Hence, I call bullshit.

oh that makes it right then....because you only get 50% piracy


quote: Right. Because distributing mixtapes of other peoples' music wasn't piracy? Oh, wait. That was ok, right? It's just not ok now for some reason if it's on a computer rather than a cassette? Come on.

i would say thats a little bit different, how many people have you seen carving a career of others with a twin cassette player? piracy is yea out there but its been in the % you can write off as promotion or like a overhead, now its insane. its like a cancer, that in the long run will leave us in a sorry state......


quote: I'm just getting tired of hearing all the different excuses that bag on technology in an effort to explain why some peoples' records no longer sell. Everybody needs a scapegoat I guess but I just find it incredibly ironic when "techno" artists or labels scapegoat technology.

hellooooooo no ones records are selling.....

[DJ Becka]

:love: I LOVE VINYL!!! :love:

Sad thing is.....when I move to Spain next year, I wont be able to take all of my vinyl with me, so I have to invest in something-like Final Scratch, so I can at least rip all my tracks to a laptop and take them that way.....otherwise, I'd be screwed :doh:

I am happy that I do have that option available to me though....and even when I do get Final Scratch, I will still support and buy vinyl from the local shops ;)

[tocsin]

piracy tells me they havnt adapted to the times?

Yes. If people truly desire your music in digital format, and you aren't selling it in that format, thus losing sales, you haven't adapted to the times. Given the high amount of bitching about MP3 from pseudo-"underground" labels and artists that sound more and more like the lawyers Garth Brooks, if they haven't begun selling MP3s, it's their problem. It shows that they haven't tested the water and, yet, are bitching that it's too cold.


no i dare say you dont care because your
getting stuff for jack

Actually, I don't pirate music. At least, not in the sense that you'd be bitching about. Like many other techno artists, I'm guilty of "sampling" here and there. But, then again, I'm not the one running around and bitching about the poor performance of my music in the market being directly related to piracy. I'm at least willing to admit that it's a small market that won't pay my rent. If that changes, great. If not, I don't care. The people that truly want it go out and buy it. Seriously, if you personally run a label, you must know quite a few DJs. How many do you know that have converted to only spinning pirated MP3s? I don't know one. And, yet, everyone bitches about sales. Hmmmmm. Is it piracy that hurt you or might it be the fact that you didn't stay interesting enough to keep a pop market from moving on to something different?


well wait and see when your jobs taken by the next technology.

If it is, I'll find a way to swim or drown. That's life.


.great moral thinking way you have......or
should i say its the new modern attitude....

Right. I'm "immoral" because I disagree with you about piracy and digital formats. Get over it.


oh that makes it right then....because you only get 50% piracy

No. I never said it was "right." I just don't see the threat. Why do you give a **** if people pirate music who were never going to buy it in the first place? Seriously, for all the bitching you do about Soulseek, the general persona I've come across there is similar to a kid who collected bubblegum cards. They fluff their collection like a pair of peacock feathers and do little else with it. They never would have "bought" any of it in the first place and they aren't playing it in public. So, given that, do you get pissed if you come across a mixtape or CD from a DJ that has one of your label's tracks on it with no licensing? Which is worse? I just find it funny that, for as grubby as people have gotten regarding the MP3 issue, which arguably exposes them to more people than mixtapes would, everyone seemed to support the idea of "piracy" with mixtapes because that is how people heard the music. Oh, right, I forgot. It's because all of these people with MP3s have started monopolizing all the paid
bookings that DJs who bought the records might get. :roll:


i would say thats a little bit different, how many people have you seen carving a career of others with a twin
cassette player?

I remember a lot of people getting very igly about people who had supposedly "stolen" mixtapes and gotten bookings. As for a DJ, you can downplay it if you want, but a mixtape was really the only way to start carving a carreer for yourself if you didn't already know somebody. So, feel free to tell me why it's ok to pirate music on cassette, but not a computer. I'm just trying to understand the logic here. At best, we have an accusation that too many people are DJing with stolen MP3s. Well, so far, I've never seen this happen. I'm not pretending that it doesn't happen. But, I don't see how it's happened enough to hurt any market for underground vinyl. Most DJs are record collectors and prefer more than a file they might lose. Every DJ I know still plays records. Ask them if they are buying the same records they did a couple years ago though. Maybe that's your problem? All I've seen, for the most part, is people trying to find a reason explaining poor sales that ignores changes in taste. Artists
and labels "reinvent" themselves for a reason. Techno has shown an incredible propensity to sticking in a rut. And people think sales slump because of piracy? No. It's bigger than that. And if you don't accept that, you'll fade out of the picture and most people won't care.


piracy is yea out there but its been in the % you can write off as promotion or like a overhead,
now its insane. its like a cancer, that in the long run will leave us in a sorry state.

Have you found a way to measure the piracy versus sales to even make this an educated statement?


hellooooooo no ones records are selling.....

Good. This scene could use a little shock to its system. I'm more excited to see how people come out of it with new ideas, rather than hearing people bitch about how it ain't like it used to be.

[TechMouse]

Seriously, if you personally run a label, you must know quite a few DJs. How many do you know that have converted to only spinning pirated MP3s? I don't know one.
I see what you're saying, and to a certain extent I agree. Short of the odd person coming and playing an Ableton set (where I'm pretty damn sure it's been 70/80% original material) I have never once seen someone turn up at Pure Filth and play entirely mp3s off Final Scratch. At most we only ever have one CD deck, and that doesn't get used much.

That said, however, I understand it's much more of a problem in - say - Spain, where people will play entire sets from mp3's burnt onto CDs.

[Heroes]

quote:It's because all of these people with MP3s have started monopolizing all the paid bookings that DJs who bought the records might get.

i dont dj, through choice, so thats not really relevant to me or the argument, my argument or point on this thread is the problem with the piracy, its way out of control and even adopting your so called change through genres aproach isnt a real fix for piracy, "hold on hes made this killah track now lets buy it", i dont think so, change makes no difference what so ever in my honest opinion. Technology for me isnt the problem its attitude of just getting recogintion for the hours you put in...ok well report to work tommorow go staight to the boss and get him to deduct 50% of the rest of the years wages, because that is the scale of the effect. I have no hardened statistics via goverment reports but i can sure tell you by sales that were down to a quarter of what it was 24 months ago, and i think i voice for probably 95% of people in the industry too... All iam saying is the piracy is an issue iam not one who bleats about viynl is a holly grale format over its thin n bitty mp3 cousin. iam merely saying not getting paid will or should i say is having a mammoth effect on things like, software developers, labels, film, art. its all suffering......

i do have one statistic and that is the biggest selling age group for record buying purchases in the uk is 35 to 45 but since almost the dawn of the 1st music media it was 18 to 26. now is that because nothing so called new is being said across every genre in film, music & art or could it be a coincidence because they know where to get it from......?

i think we know the answer to that one

[dirty_bass]

The whole argument that Tocsin is making is a little near sited.
The focus he is making is that it`s the techno "scenes" fault that records aren`t selling, due to stagnation.
The fact is the WHOLE music industry is in crisis due to illegal download.
Never before has priacy been so rife.
Now yeah yeah, I used to have mix tapes and whatever, tapes of CD`s. But if it was of stuff I liked, I bought it on CD.
I mean, I still do, I must be one of the few who still goes out and buys albums on CD.
But the point is, is that it`s much easier to get pirate stuff, anything you want, as quick as you want, and it is affecting everyone.
Why should that be acceptable in music and not in any other area of commerce.
You don`t walk into your local footlocker, and then walk out with your corp sucker Nike trainers on for free do you?
So why should it be so immoral for musicians to want compensation for their hard work?
To even think that the illegal file sharing of music hasn`t affected the whole industry, is not only naeive, but very stupid.
We are in a trnasition period right now, from solid product, to virtual product, but even when a full transition is made I think that the attitude of theft is ok, will still be prevailent.

Tocsin, your attitude sucks, and has no real merit. IT`s the kind of argument a teenager puts across.

[Jay Pace]

OK, for the stats & facts hungry amongst you:

Legal music downloads have tripled worldwide

The British Phonograph Industry said the growth in legal downloads is already outstripping the growth in illegal filesharing

The average music fan spends just £1.27 a month on digital tracks, illegal downloaders spend an average of £5.52 on legal digital music

Ten million tracks have been sold via legal services in the UK during the first half of 2005

Various sources, all reputable.

I feel for the people getting burned over this, but people need to adapt, and fast.

Legal downloads is a booming growth industry. Labels need to get on it asap.

[tocsin]

i dont dj, through choice, so thats not really relevant to me or the argument, my argument or point on this thread
is the problem with the piracy, its way out of control and even adopting your so called change through genres
aproach isnt a real fix for piracy,

You may not DJ but you do run a label that sells a style of music that, with a token exception here or there, sellspretty much entirely to DJs, correct? You aren't going to fix piracy. And, as I said, I don't see piracy as a problem here. I see lack of adaptation. There is no one universal variable that will define your lack of sales. Tastes have changed in many different ways. You can either fight that or adapt.


"hold on hes made this killah track now lets buy it", i dont think so, change
makes no difference what so ever in my honest opinion.

Strange because your quote above is exactly how I work. It was the same with mixtapes. If there was a track on it that I wanted, I found it and bought it. Same goes for MP3. And since a good number of entities have offered previews of tracks which you can purchase digitally, Soulseek is not the place where I go looking for the latest released techno. Rather, it's where I get new music from personal friends that isn't released, or songs that are out of print. Neither cuts into any market.


Technology for me isnt the problem its attitude of just
getting recogintion for the hours you put in..

If you feel that you aren't getting enough attention, it's likely due to the type of music you are putting out, not because people are pirating it.


have no hardened statistics
via goverment reports but i can sure tell you by sales that were down to a quarter of what it was 24 months ago, and
i think i voice for probably 95% of people in the industry too... All iam saying is the piracy is an issue iam not
one who bleats about viynl is a holly grale format over its thin n bitty mp3 cousin. iam merely saying not getting
paid will or should i say is having a mammoth effect on things like, software developers, labels, film, art. its all
suffering......

Specific entities are suffering. But they are merely variables in a greater whole. Others have found a way to make mp3 work for them. But, honestly, most of the bitching I see about piracy just seems like people in techno who can't get over the fact that they aren't popular anymore. Newsflash: For the most part, I don't buy any music coming out on the labels which I used to buy 8 years ago. The same goes for a number of artists who's work I used to buy. The same people that bitch about piracy also tend to bitch about how there is too much crap coming out. Like there is more garbage being released today than there was years ago that is significant enough to keep people away from record stores. Yet, somehow, I've still managed to find tracks by new and old artists that I enjoy and, when I do, if they are available for purchase, like most other DJs, I go and buy them. Losing popularity is not a crisis for the whole. It's a crisis for the entity.


i do have one statistic and that is the biggest selling age group for record buying purchases in the uk is 35 to 45
but since almost the dawn of the 1st music media it was 18 to 26. now is that because nothing so called new is being
said across every genre in film, music & art or could it be a coincidence because they know where to get it
from......?
i think we know the answer to that one

I couldn't tell you as I'm not that demographic. Being 30 and not purchasing significant quantities of music anymore, however, I can tell you that it doesn't have to do with piracy. Rather, it stems from the fact that I got bored with scene politics, over-inflated import prices, etc. Digital distribution via the internet has pulled me back more into the market in the last year than any record store with "save our scene" slogans did. To be honest, I look forward to vinyl's eventual death if things stay the same as they are now.


The focus he is making is that it`s the techno "scenes" fault that records aren`t selling, due to stagnation.

Not exactly. I think there is plenty of good music coming out. But, the nature of the game has made it pricier and harder to distribute. I have no loyalty to any record company. In addition, I find some inherent hypocrissy in the messages being given out by people who used every single illegal shortcut they could to produce music in the first place, bitching about lack of sales which they blame on piracy. It's not a "scene" problem. It's an entity problem.


The fact is the WHOLE music industry is in crisis due to illegal download.

**** the industry. The WHOLE music industry is not vinyl or CD.


But the point is, is that it`s much easier to get pirate stuff, anything you want, as quick as you want, and it is
affecting everyone.

Again, proof? I see a lot of speculation. And Jay Pace just posted some stats that suggest otherwise.


You don`t walk into your local footlocker, and then walk out with your corp sucker Nike trainers on for free do you?

Nope. Given their price and what they offer, I just choose not to buy them. The "industry" is merely to egotistical to believe for a second that they are offering something which a number of their earlier market just doesn't want anymore.


To even think that the illegal file sharing of music hasn`t affected the whole industry, is not only naeive, but
very stupid.

Until someone can demonstrate to me otherwise, I don't believe it here. The "pirated" copies of my music have made it further than the pressed copies regionally. So, if I really cared to play off that with people I talked to and start selling mp3s online, it's only helped. People who wouldn't have otherwise known the music exists now do. If they don't hear it, there's no sale. If they pirate it, there still might not be any sale but it's no loss. The DJs who actually do play tracks of mine still buy the music. So, I don't see the problem. If less people buy, that's a sign of a failure on my part if I view merit through sales. Fortunately, I don't.


We are in a trnasition period right now, from solid product, to virtual product, but even when a full transition is
made I think that the attitude of theft is ok, will still be prevailent.

That attitude was the foundation of techno. Something that a number of thieves seemed to forget once the mainstream industry they supposedly rebelled against offered them a blow job. When you catch more people spinning pirated versions of your music, or can even count more copies of your tracks on Soulseek than have been sold, get back to me.


Tocsin, your attitude sucks, and has no real merit. IT`s the kind of argument a teenager puts across.

No. My attitude is merely honest. Honest in the way that "techno" once used to be. It places blame for lack of sales where it belongs, on the person producing and selling the goods. I hate to break it to you guys, but none of you are so popular as to have more people pirating your music than buying it. Most of the world hasn't even heard of you. Get over it and adapt. Live with the fact that a number of people really don't think you offer anything of any worth at all and, yes, they might even steal it and listen to it a couple times. It sucks, but that's life. Unlike a number of other egotisical industry hacks and whores, however, my head isn't so blown up as to view that type pirate as the majority and the reason why my niche market music didn't do so hot in a time period. If you think my attitude sucks, get used to it. It's the attitude of the general public and you are selling to them, not vice versa.

[Francisco Scaramanga]

Jay Pace, nice stats, and you are right, its happening, so either embrace it, or die by the hand of mp3!

And I think Tocsin has some good points as well, and its not at all a teenagers approach, just a different opinion, but every bit as valid as the "digital music will destroy music" opinion, which I personally find laughable.

I mean come on - kill music? As if. The music biz has been through alot, and this change we are in the middle of is probably going to be the biggest one yet, but as always, those who have the love will keep doing what they want to do.

Also, I think Heroes said something along the lines of techno record sales being only a quarter of what they were 2 years ago. Well, as you said you dont DJ, so maybe you havent been spending much time in clubs, but I reckon average club attendance for techno nights has probably dropped by nearly the same factor. The only conclusion I can draw from those two factors are that techno simply isn't as popular as it once was.

Finally, I hate to say this, but anyone who has decided to make a living out of music is a bit on the foolish side. And if you take it one step further and try to make a living out of only making and releasing music you like, and never performing, then you are really living on the edge. Speak to most musicians who have made a living out of it, and they will have all sorts of horror stories about doing sessions for some shit pop band, chopping out a verse or repeating a chorus or otherwise changing their artistic creation to fit what a record company wants, having to wear certain clothes, etc, etc, etc. Not because they wanted to - because generally speaking that is what is necessary to make a living from music. And then there is the performing side, seriously now, how many successful musicians can anyone think of that dont do live gigs? Gigging is an essential part of music - in fact, its the most essential I reckon. You can guarantee that any famous band got where they are by busting their ass in pubs and clubs for peanuts. If the Rolling Stones decided they didn't like the spotlight and never did any gigs, would they be the mega rock star dinosars they are today? Absolutely not. And I dont see why techno should be any different from any of that.

History has told us the tale of the broke and bitter musican and repeated it over and over and over and over and over and over, the amount of truly great muscians that have died penniless is uncountable, because the answer is almost every single one of them! And I'm talking about GREAT musicans here, the beethovens and mozarts of the world, and lets be honest with ourselves, if people of that caliber failed to make it big off music, how can anyone else expect to?

I think the whole dance music thing probably made alot of people rich, but I just hope all those who made the bucks put them in a bank account rather than the usual rock star style piss it up the wall and bang lots of sluts, cause just like every other kind of music, eventually the boom ends, and then the backlash comes, and then those who reckoned things would be like the goodtimes forever end up like all the others who crashed and burned when disco went dead, or glam rock, or jazz fusion, or any other trend that came and went - they end up broke and bitter.

[Heroes]

quote: No. My attitude is merely honest. Honest in the way that "techno" once used to be. It places blame for lack of sales where it belongs, on the person producing and selling the goods.

what a crock of ****

quote: I hate to break it to you guys, but none of you are so popular as to have more people pirating your music than buying it. Most of the world hasn't even heard of you.

you sound bitter to a point, have you been burnt by or had a record label go down or a shop get repossed.

quote: Get over it and adapt.

piracy allows no adaption, its there festering everything.....

[dirty_bass]

Ok, my mistake, everything is peachy.

[Heroes]

Also, I think Heroes said something along the lines of techno record sales being only a quarter of what they were 2 years ago. Well, as you said you dont DJ, so maybe you havent been spending much time in clubs, but I reckon average club attendance for techno nights has probably dropped by nearly the same factor. The only conclusion I can draw from those two factors are that techno simply isn't as popular as it once was.

did i say techno? did i not comment on art, music & film, in general with no genre but just general? my argument is not about techno or though does not dj so though maybee does not spend much time in clubs....but though probably knows many who do, so iam aware of whats happening.......

I think the whole dance music thing probably made alot of people rich, but I just hope all those who made the bucks put them in a bank account rather than the usual rock star style piss it up the wall and bang lots of sluts, cause just like every other kind of music, eventually the boom ends, and then the backlash comes, and then those who reckoned things would be like the goodtimes forever end up like all the others who crashed and burned when disco went dead, or glam rock, or jazz fusion, or any other trend that came and went - they end up broke and bitter.

mines not bitter due to the end of a scene because i dont think thats the case its just an analysis about the piracy levels and its alarming rate.

[tocsin]

quote: No. My attitude is merely honest. Honest in the way that "techno" once used to be. It places blame for lack of sales where it belongs, on the person producing and selling the goods.

what a crock of ****

It's not a crock. It's the honest truth. All of the music that got me into "techno" made heavy usage of uncleared samples. Even producers here, some who are complaining in this very thread, have publicly admitted to pirating software. The criminal element has been present in techno in so many ways and, all of a sudden when a handful of labels or artists unfairly feel that "piracy" is killing their ability to pay rent with their music, all of a sudden it's bad? That's the crock of shit.


you sound bitter to a point, have you been burnt by or had a record label go down or a shop get repossed.

I'm not bitter at all. Unlike a number of vocal people here, I'm quite happy with the way things are. I see positive things in the future and am not foolish enough to believe that piracy will kill music. Do you have any idea how many times such a claim has been made, only to have the same people making that claim adopt the feared cause of their demise and exploit it for all it's worth? It didn't happen then and it won't happen now. The industry may change shape but music isn't going anywhere. Somehow, music survived long before there was any means to record it on plastic.


piracy allows no adaption, its there festering everything.....

And drugs are badd, mmmmkaaayyy? :p


Ok, my mistake, everything is peachy.

*YAWN*

[Francisco Scaramanga]

Heroes, first of all I would like to say that I didnt really mean to be offensive or personal or anything in my last post, its just that a few of your comments pushed my buttons if you know what I mean. And to be fair, most of it wansnt actually very relevant, although I did mean all of it.

Anyway, I'll address the issue of piracy over the whole of the music industry, and the film industry for that matter.

I dont think its really all that bad. As Tocsin has already said, most people who are pirating stuff probably wouldent buy it anyway. But on top of that, the technology that allows us to pirate also allows us to get more music/media to more people faster and easier and cheaper than anyone ever imagined possible. Its just a question of harnessing that awesome power to make money. And someone is working out how to do it right now. It'll take time, but this digital revolution is definately the future, and theres nothing anyone can do to change it.

I work in a commercial record store that aint doin so good at the moment, and I will proably end up losing my job as a result of all of this, which is pretty gutting, but I am excited by the prospects for the future, so I am prepared to roll with the punches.

Also, I dont think piracy is much worse now than at other points in time, when cassette recorders came out, the industry was convinced that it would kill sales, same with CD burners, and now MP3 is the big scare, but shit is still going to sell.

It really is too late to stop it, downloads are included in the singles chart now, its here to stay, whoever embraces it and makes it work for them will come out on top, and those who hate on it will ultimately lose out.

[massplanck]

I have mates who use to to buy lots of music (not vinyls) and now d/l constantly and hand out DVDs of albums to their mates for nothing who now in turn buy no music.

Just because 5 people are sharing a song on Soulseek doesnt mean that their arent 500 copies knocking about of it *not* being shared or being burnt and handed out willy nilly.

I have to say though Glenn et al. Get all your back catalogue up on the web for d/l as legit mp3s if you can.

Anyway. I like touching things in my hands and i hate little yellow folders full of shitty bitrate mp3's. I value music more than that.

[massplanck]

What about artwork... & holding the thing in your hand and marvelling at it AWAY from the glare of a computer screen ?

I always thought the packaging\design was an integral part of the experience... :neutral:

Times are changing & its the <((PhUture!))> for sure. But things are gonna get a bit watered down i fear. I dont want to have to be near a ****ing computer to get my full **experience**.. ;)

And how many years away is it untill we have the capability to be downloading full lenght WAV's or a better format as opposed to shitty bitrates..?

[tocsin]

There's nothing stopping you from downloading a full length wav aside from bandwidth now. There's also "lossless compression" which can be used and is available free of charge. It won't compress as a nice as a 320kbit MP3. But, if you can truly hear the difference, push people to use the lossless codec. Personally, I've never cared about packaging. It usually gets lost or damaged somewhere along the way. I just want the sounds and I'm quite happy with mp3. As it stands, I can listen to mp3 in my car, where I do most of my listening to music, thanks to the wonder of a $40 discman.

[Heroes]

quote: Also, I dont think piracy is much worse now than at other points in time, when cassette recorders came out, the industry was convinced that it would kill sales, same with CD burners, and now MP3 is the big scare, but shit is still going to sell.

ok you start dubbing tapes and mailing to freinds and ill start ripping discs, because thats the scarry part i feel across anything. i know piracies there it always has been and always will be, iam up for no argument iam just saying its network was slow enough that we could control. but the digital age of music is still is grim to a point, i could make and album upload it and it could be around the world in every continet and in the hands of 1000 people withing hours of complitions and that for me a s a self confessed gadget freak is ****ing mind boggling. i actually bought the ipod upon its release, iam not saying iam f**ck of mp3 you dirty bitrat b******d, all iam saying is there will be a knock on, for consumer probably not, but from industry i think so. it depends on what side of the fence you lie, i lie both on the industry and consumer which i respectfully view to supporting the future, i alway purchase music, but i feel we are at virgin ground with edjucation the 1st generation is in place and in that there is a concious attitude to beat the system, my son came home from school and asked me to copy greendays album because loads of kids knew his dad was into music with studio and gadgets, i nearly f*****g fell of my chair even the teacher wanted a copy.....

as quick as there comes an answer theres a crack, as long as you have a signal out you will get a signal in............i do however feel sorry for the poor woman who got fined £3000 for her daughters habit.....i think this is gonna be a hot one for the future

anyway its been a very healthy discussion.....

[Komplex]

I think this argument can be put to rest. For anyone who has come in late, this is the gist of it:

Heroes is the typical sounding big label guy and Tocsin is the typical sounding artist AND consumer.

Heroes has it in for Tocsin and Tocsin has it in for Heroes because they have a difference of oppinion due to their position in the matter. Heroes is a big daddy label guy and Tocsin is a random artist. Heroes wants to keep being rewarded with money and hasn't saved his pennies and Tocsin just cares about the music because he also works a day job. Heroes thinks that mp3 is hurting his labels' sales and Tocsin says its due to the music not being in demand. Heroes doesn't like to hear this and calls Tocsin a tosser. Tocsin doesn't like people talking bad about digital music either.

They both disagree about the reasons why Heroes' labels are loosing money and it has become an argument on a personal level. A battle of the egos that won't be resolved till Heroes realises that there is no going back to the golden days of vinyl and a high demand market or till Tocsin shuts up and says "you're right, it was mp3's fault. lets stop arguing" (even tho he may not really mean it)

close the thread... its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before (except for network).

heres a quote for next time:


Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...

[MARKEG]

its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before

i totally agree with you komplex... closed thread.

[tocsin]

Fine, close the thread. But, believe it or not, I don't have it in for labels. However, I'm not going to pretend that it would bother me for a second if vinyl disappeared off the face of the earth. From my own personal stake in it, my dedication to digital is less of a sales/distribution thing and more of an expression thing. Like I said earlier, I'm a panning freak when it comes to kick drums. I really can't get the result I desire on vinyl. The mono bass just doesn't hit the same as a thump that bounces between speakers on a proper set up. For that reason alone, vinyl is less desirable to me. And, for the most part, that's an aspect that often goes untouched in these discussions.

[dirty_bass]

no the problems with vinyl limitations has been discussed many many times.

I think the problem that supercedes most of the arguments in terms of sound quality is the fact that the majority of clubs have wack sounsystems.
Total rubbish.
And most rigs are run in mono.

This needs to imporve.

[tocsin]

Rigs don't have to run mono. The rig belonging to the crew I play the most with is not run in mono. So, that's a non-factor for me. The type of music I play doesn't have any place at a club around my way anyways. It's not welcomed. There aren't many clubs left that welcome 200+ bpm techno.

[dirty_bass]

Rigs don't have to run mono. The rig belonging to the crew I play the most with is not run in mono. So, that's a non-factor for me. The type of music I play doesn't have any place at a club around my way anyways. It's not welcomed. There aren't many clubs left that welcome 200+ bpm techno.

Of course they don`t have to run in mono.
I`ve been running and installing em for years.
The fact is, most are run in mono, mostly down to the fact that the speakers aren`t set up for stereo placement, and also due to split stacks, a myriad of reasons.

[tocsin]

Still, that's a human factor, not a technology factor. So, I don't humor it. Hell, a number of clubs around here have stereo. Amon Tobin has done 5.1 performances here. I got to hear the Orb play a set in stereo at a club a couple years ago as well. Even with an ideal stereo ste up, vinyl cannot take full advantage. It's something to be taken into consideration.

[The Divide]

I wish someone would get off their ass and setup a decent mp3 website store...

*you know who you are you goat shagger* :lol:

Mite try it myself via my site, 50p a track anyone. If I sell 6 I can buy a pint

No seriously tho, I really want not the mp3 but the online sale of audio to take off. Even if it doesnt work out for me personally at least its a great way of putting music out there all over the world

I think we tend to take the internet for granted sometimes

[Komplex]

Hey cool, topics still open ;)


I wish someone would get off their ass and setup a decent mp3 website store...

www.foryourears.com is already set up and running, so is www.beatport.com and quite a few others (I've only dealt with the 2 mentioned)

its just a matter of labels pulling their finger out and throwing their back catalogue and/or new releases online.

I've been buying up plenty of high bitrate tracks lately cus it sounds much better than recording them off vinyl (which just sits there and I don't play). All the music I like, I hunt down and buy high bit versions, its just a pity that most labels don't have their shit available online. Pirate the fckers then :lol: (joking... relax)

[Heroes]

I think this argument can be put to rest. For anyone who has come in late, this is the gist of it:

not lets get it right

Heroes is the typical sounding big label guy and Tocsin is the typical sounding artist AND consumer.

Heroes has it in for Tocsin and Tocsin has it in for Heroes because they have a difference of oppinion due to their position in the matter. Heroes is a big daddy label guy and Tocsin is a random artist. Heroes wants to keep being rewarded with money and hasn't saved his pennies and Tocsin just cares about the music because he also works a day job. Heroes thinks that mp3 is hurting his labels' sales and Tocsin says its due to the music not being in demand. Heroes doesn't like to hear this and calls Tocsin a tosser. Tocsin doesn't like people talking bad about digital music either.

They both disagree about the reasons why Heroes' labels are loosing money and it has become an argument on a personal level. A battle of the egos that won't be resolved till Heroes realises that there is no going back to the golden days of vinyl and a high demand market or till Tocsin shuts up and says "you're right, it was mp3's fault. lets stop arguing" (even tho he may not really mean it)

close the thread... its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before (except for network).

heres a quote for next time:


Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...

komplex i hope to f**k you not getting on ya binary horse and calling me an idiot you f*****g convict, dont mess with me ill f*****g eat your wobble for breakfast you noooob, looosen your handcuffs and read the quibles i have. its not about digital, if it was why am i building a f****cking mp3 frontend shop for my web page? why is my stuff avaialbe on www.trackidown.com. My argument or disagreement with toscin is not from a big label guy point of view who didnt save his pennies its from some one whos pissed of with the level of piracy thats going on, as is half of every ****ing music, art, film person out there. Calling me an idiot you dont wanna f****g do i tell ya because ive been there, through longer harder paths than you, which took a lot more time, skill & knowledge to survive. Infact it took a hell of a lot more than your pitifull set up of

ftp://????????
user:????????
password:?????

you wanna rethink that idiot jibe

[Dustin Zahn]

Who gives a **** which medium anyone on here chooses? In the end all labels end up forgetting about the casual listener, which is the market the electronic music scene forgot to target sales to since the beginning. Instead of arguing about formats, people should be trying to figure out how to get it into non-DJ hands. DJs are a dying breed, but the casual listener will live on till we all end up nuking each other.

Here's an idea: meet in the middle. Put the DJ-friendly cuts on vinyl and 3 minute "radio" mixes for sale on the web. That way you target DJs and general music fans.

[The Overfiend]

I'm locking this.
For the Record
Glenn ain't a Martyr.
Stop attackin'.
It's Bullshit already.

[dirty_bass]

I`m unlocking this to say, WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?
Why is this getting so shitty?
These are real hard times, and the whole thing needs holding together and building anew, not knocking the **** down.
I really think we should all stop attacking each other and get on with pulling our asses together, showing a bit of unity, and taking what we have forwards, and with a more positive light.
And yeah, we can all get a bit cynical, but we are intelligent people. This scene is full of intelligent people with really outstanding ideas and theories.
Lets use that to build, not to ****ing destroy, or what it the point?

[RDR]

Horses for courses, ill use any format (and pay properly for it) that it takes to play and manipulate music for peoples enjoyment.

I dont like Mp3. I love vinyl, but its either evolve or die.