Was the music more fun when.....?

[massplanck]

Not everyone had access to so many production tools.. ?

Only the people who really really wanted to commit themselves to music would have to save for equipment and then get to know their machines inside out & make more of a commitment to get the best out of their machines? And sample CD's were non existant?

Im not bitching i think its great that anyone can now make a tune.. but that could be half the problem.

I correlate the er downfall or whatever you wanna call it of the popularity of techno with the rise of the cracked all in one software solution producer & or the plugin hoarder with the stagnation of the music.

Dont hit me. ;)

What i'll say is that the people who make the most interesting electronic music on computers (in my view) are the ones who are custom building their own software\live setups (ie Bidule/Reaktor/PD/MAX etc). ie you would find it very hard to replicate these people and they seem to stand out and escape from the rigidity of of ho hum sequencing. I'm probably not explaining myself very well but as people reply i'll make it clearer.

I know a hell of a lot of people will disagree but I may as well lay the bait. ;)

[Jay Pace]

Hmmm. Interesting point.

You could also argue that the downfall of djing began when decks started outselling guitars, and every muppet with a pair of KAMs and an eclipse record bag could call themselves a DJ.

Much like modern producers - the DJs who inspire are the ones who take it further than two decks and a mixer. Loop machines, samplers, FX units, laptops the works - the djs who have their own unique setup are the ones you remember. By comparison the dj's who just play two records at the same time sound tired and dated.

I think the role of the DJ will become more important in the digital era, as someone who has to wade through the crap to find the nuggets of gold hidden amongst it all. Digital distribution is cheap and instant. The under the counter limited edition and dubplates days are over.

More producers means more crap and more clutter, but more gems as well. And more innovation thrown in to boot, as artists start taking more risks.

I'm all for it. Vive la revolution.

[Martin Dust]

Rubbish, I like the idea of everyone being able to get into it and more the idea that some 19yr old with £90 worth of kit can write something that rocks the floor, power to the people...

[massplanck]

Rubbish, I like the idea of everyone being able to get into it and more the idea that some 19yr old with £90 worth of kit can write something that rocks the floor, power to the people...

So do I. But i'm just correlating it with the supposed stagnation of the music & supposed downfall in the popularity of techno. Its funny because most of my ex techno mates prefer er the sound of say landstrumm who relys more on hardware live versus insert standard techno pc producer liveset. Someone using machines actually excites them again abot the music. Trust me. These people got bored with techno years ago.

I wouldnt be saying it if everything was hunky dory. ;)

I also like the idea of someone older using lots of kit they have spent years learning and mastering . :neutral:

[massplanck]

Show me a nineteen year old who can do what say.. er Tim Exile can do but with fruityloops.

:neutral:

[Martin Dust]

Nope, you're just being subjective instead of objective, you don't speak for everyone fella.

I don't need to show you a 19yr old, you could do what Tim does with anything that allows midi control, I used to bend drum samples on an old W30, it's nothing new.

[Martin Dust]

Show me a nineteen year old who can do what say.. er Tim Exile can do but with fruityloops.

:neutral:

He use Reaktor and a midi control doesn't he? Again nowt new and you could do it on anything really...What's new is the way he does it but you could do it just on an old W30. But is your arguement about people using kit? He use a laptop and software, so what you on about here :)

[massplanck]

Show me a nineteen year old who can do what say.. er Tim Exile can do but with fruityloops.

:neutral:

He use Reaktor and a midi control doesn't he? Again nowt new and you could do it on anything really...What's new is the way he does it but you could do it just on an old W30. But is your arguement about people using kit? He use a laptop and software, so what you on about here :)

Its not really a software vs hardware issue anymore.. its more of a skill + commitment issue mr dust. Note my respect for modular software at the top of the page. ;)

[massplanck]

Modular software = turning your pc into a piece of hardware. Dont ask.. thats just the way i feel about things and the people who know me well enough can see what i'm on about.

I like making *setups* & *sequencers* & *tools* that work just for me and that no-one else can replicate.. because well i made them and i'm the only one who uses them. Makes you a little bit more unique in the land of of the bland if i can dare say so.

But it takes alot of commitment.

[Martin Dust]

Still disagree, you've got to have skill and commitment to learn anything, tunes that rock the floor don't come easy so that's why I'm confused about the point you are making.

Reminds me of the days when the Musicians Union tried to keep music LIVE, round and round we go, like a record baby, right round ;)

[Martin Dust]

Modular software = turning your pc into a piece of hardware. Dont ask.. thats just the way i feel about things and the people who know me well enough can see what i'm on about.

I like making *setups* & *sequencers* & *tools* that work just for me and that no-one else can replicate.. because well i made them and i'm the only one who uses them. Makes you a little bit more unique in the land of of the bland if i can dare say so.

But it takes alot of commitment.

As my wife would say, it's not what you've got it's what you do with it. One of my fav DnB tracks was written completely on a Soundblaster 16 and nothing else. See what I'm getting at?

[massplanck]

As my wife would say, it's not what you've got it's what you do with it. One of my fav DnB tracks was written completely on a Soundblaster 16 and nothing else. See what I'm getting at?

I know exactly what you are getting at. I completley agree. But these are the exceptions to the rule.

But dont tell me Pink Floyd would have been just as good with busted guitars & shitty bad sounding amps & bad mikes. The songs would have been arranged just as well but Dark Side of the moon couldnt have sounded the way it sounds. Its still may have been a classic but you cant disregard the craft & knowledge that went into making it what it is. And what if they never had any guitar lessons etc...


Sorry mr dust. I'm just wary of instant producing and having to listen to people fumble their way along for years untill it sounds good to me.

I'll admit i'm usually out on my own when it comes to this arguement. ;)

[RDR]

Many a good tune played on an old fiddle.

Itz da playa not da kitz...

Besides which, how much more democratic can you get than using your voice to sing?

Music just is and always will be a source of controversy, joy, arguments, love, friendship, hate and amusment (and dancing!!)

I dont give a flying **** about arguments concerning what is and what is not good, because tommorow it will all be different.

Evolve or die baby. But whatever you do, do it for love and enthusiasm - not money or because you think you should.

[massplanck]

Still disagree, you've got to have skill and commitment to learn anything, tunes that rock the floor don't come easy so that's why I'm confused about the point you are making.

Reminds me of the days when the Musicians Union tried to keep music LIVE, round and round we go, like a record baby, right round ;)

I know... but i'm just wondering what has changed that has people i know who used to enjoy 'rocking' on the dancefloor cant stand 95% of the tunes that are coming out these days.

Sales are down blah blah blah... and I think its because there is nothing groundbreaking or inspiring about 100 producers using the same software sequencer where as 10 years ago they would have all had completly different setups & more character.

The Analord series....... nuff said

[Martin Dust]

:)

You can call me Martin ;)

But the rules of the dancefloor don't care if you made it on $50,000 worth of kit or some spoons....all the skill in the world won't make you wax a hotty. More kit isn't always better but I agree, being able to play does.

[massplanck]

Many a good tune played on an old fiddle.

Itz da playa not da kitz...

.


No its both.. its both the playa & da kitz.

I'd rather hear a Bach Symphony on a Grand Piano not a Piano VST + bad soundcard + standard midi keyboard ;)

Its both for me... why has the mucic supposedly stagnated then? Are people less talented these days.?. (not that i think all music has stagnated or anything)

I'm just churning out shit. Bear with me. ;)

[Martin Dust]

Still disagree, you've got to have skill and commitment to learn anything, tunes that rock the floor don't come easy so that's why I'm confused about the point you are making.

Reminds me of the days when the Musicians Union tried to keep music LIVE, round and round we go, like a record baby, right round ;)

I know... but i'm just wondering what has changed that has people i know who used to enjoy 'rocking' on the dancefloor cant stand 95% of the tunes that are coming out these days.

Sales are down blah blah blah... and I think its because there is nothing groundbreaking or inspiring about 100 producers using the same software sequencer where as 10 years ago they would have all had completly different setups & more character.

The Analord series....... nuff said


Things always go in cycles, it's the way of the world but there's loads of good shit out there. I mean, who buys a shit record?

I still buy loads of stuff and get pretty excited about a lot of stuff. I now the quality has taken a dip in the harder market but the answer to that is write something to wipe the floor...

[Martin Dust]

Still disagree, you've got to have skill and commitment to learn anything, tunes that rock the floor don't come easy so that's why I'm confused about the point you are making.

Reminds me of the days when the Musicians Union tried to keep music LIVE, round and round we go, like a record baby, right round ;)

I know... but i'm just wondering what has changed that has people i know who used to enjoy 'rocking' on the dancefloor cant stand 95% of the tunes that are coming out these days.

Sales are down blah blah blah... and I think its because there is nothing groundbreaking or inspiring about 100 producers using the same software sequencer where as 10 years ago they would have all had completly different setups & more character.

The Analord series....... nuff said


Things always go in cycles, it's the way of the world but there's loads of good shit out there. I mean, who buys a shit record?

I still buy loads of stuff and get pretty excited about a lot of stuff. I now the quality has taken a dip in the harder market but the answer to that is write something to wipe the floor...

[massplanck]

:)

You can call me Martin ;)

But the rules of the dancefloor don't care if you made it on $50,000 worth of kit or some spoons....all the skill in the world won't make you wax a hotty. More kit isn't always better but I agree, being able to play does.

Thanks Mr Dust ;)

I agree. I agree. I agree.

But you dont have to spend 50,000 on lots of kit. You just have to a novel approach to making tunes again.. a unique one. I'm talking crap I know but thats why I like modular but alot of people who I know make tunes think its just too complicated for them.. ****it learning your scales on a guitar is a pain in the ass but it has to be done. Rather than knocking out chords day after day... ok it may not be important to alot of people but it is important to ME and I understand if people have a problem with it. ;)

[Martin Dust]

I fine with that, what I was saying is that's subjective rather than objective and you are projecting outward the fate of techno from the experience of one.

Now, I'm willing to listen and understand that but can you see why I pulled you up? Good chat tho...

[massplanck]

Thats ok. I was expecting to be pulled up on it. ;)

How crap would this discussion have been if everyone had agreed with me. :lol:


There is loads and loads of good music out there.. and as you rightly pointed out It seems like its only the harder end of the techno spectrum where the quality is suffering of late (dont kill me BOA please).

That because you dont NEED to over complicate things to make people dance on yokes but unfortunately things will probably have to step up a gear again for the crowds to return en mass. Like i said about Tim Exile. I'm sure he could make amazing music with acid & a few spoons but then he wouldnt really be the majestic Tim Exile if he hadnt taken the less obvious route and really pushed himself.

No disrespect to the Reason/Abelton/Fruityloops/Acid users (I have been & still do dabble with them on occasions) etc but sometimes I feel that I dont want to be restricted to the way the programmers made these applications. I want to make my own *reason* and step out of the fray of waiting for them to give me inspiration with the latest update. And I want to stick with it and develop it and make it my own.

Thats just my two million cents.

[Martin Dust]

Well then, stop talking about it and do it...see you in six months when the album is done... ;)

[massplanck]

Well then, stop talking about it and do it...see you in six months when the album is done... ;)

I'm moving back to the countryside tommorrow to do just that.. ;)

[Jay Pace]

Well then, stop talking about it and do it...see you in six months when the album is done... ;)

I'm moving back to the countryside tommorrow to do just that.. ;)

Tim took a year out, moved back home and built his reaktor machine.

All a question of commitment, as you pointed out earlier.

[dan the acid man]

Well then, stop talking about it and do it...see you in six months when the album is done... ;)

I'm moving back to the countryside tommorrow to do just that.. ;)

no, you'll just be bothering those sheep :lol:

[massplanck]

They just love it when i grab hold of their horns.

;)

[sputnik242]

I mean, who buys a shit record?

Well I've got a few Dust Science releases..... :twisted:
(Only joking...or am I? ;) )

[dan the acid man]

I mean, who buys a shit record?

Well I've got a few Dust Science releases..... :twisted:
(Only joking...or am I? ;) )

theres no way you can call any of those records rubbish ;)

[Martin Dust]

I mean, who buys a shit record?

Well I've got a few Dust Science releases..... :twisted:
(Only joking...or am I? ;) )

Baz don't forget, we know where you live - Mwwahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaw

[sputnik242]

theres no way you can call any of those records rubbish ;)

Oh you can. That System 23 one for starters.... :snooty:

:lol:

[sputnik242]

Baz don't forget, we know where you live - Mwwahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaw

Oh yeah......... :oops:

System 23 rock!!!

btw Martin any new S23 sets to be had?

[Martin Dust]

There's a 2hr one on the way, new UR, Kraftwerk, New Order, BMB and DJ Bone edits - should be ready mid-sept...

[sputnik242]

Smart!
Looking forward to it ;)

[Martin Dust]

There's even a Dave Gahan edit in there as well, you heard the new DP album yet?

[dan the acid man]

theres no way you can call any of those records rubbish ;)

Oh you can. That System 23 one for starters.... :snooty:

:lol:

oops, didnt spot that you knew the guys and pulling their legs :oops: :doh:

[Komplex]

Not everyone had access to so many production tools.. ?

Only the people who really really wanted to commit themselves to music would have to save for equipment and then get to know their machines inside out & make more of a commitment to get the best out of their machines? And sample CD's were non existant?

Im not bitching i think its great that anyone can now make a tune.. but that could be half the problem.

I correlate the er downfall or whatever you wanna call it of the popularity of techno with the rise of the cracked all in one software solution producer & or the plugin hoarder with the stagnation of the music.

Dont hit me. ;)

What i'll say is that the people who make the most interesting electronic music on computers (in my view) are the ones who are custom building their own software\live setups (ie Bidule/Reaktor/PD/MAX etc). ie you would find it very hard to replicate these people and they seem to stand out and escape from the rigidity of of ho hum sequencing. I'm probably not explaining myself very well but as people reply i'll make it clearer.

I know a hell of a lot of people will disagree but I may as well lay the bait. ;)

I reckon its really down to "some people have it, some people don't"

And some people can learn it while others just can't.

Has nothing to do with gear/software or who's cock (or tits) is bigger...

The "problem" is to do with the music industry not the music. Sh!t has to be released for various reasons by various people and as long as there is money being made, people will keep releasing sh!t.

[sputnik242]

There's even a Dave Gahan edit in there as well, you heard the new DP album yet?

DM you mean? Nope. Looking forward to it though, sounds like its gonna be better than Exciter which I ain't overly keen on. Plus the Michael Mayer & Misc. remixes of Precious though not the Sasha mixes! :dontevengothere:


oops, didnt spot that you knew the guys and pulling their legs

:lol:

That's why I specifically mentioned Dust Science :twisted:

[Martin Dust]

There's even a Dave Gahan edit in there as well, you heard the new DP album yet?

DM you mean? Nope. Looking forward to it though, sounds like its gonna be better than Exciter which I ain't overly keen on. Plus the Michael Mayer & Misc. remixes of Precious though not the Sasha mixes! :dontevengothere:



It's a real return to form, his voice sounds wicked and there's some great stuff on there, I'll see if I can sort you a promo...

[DJAmok]

Show me a nineteen year old who can do what say.. er Tim Exile can do but with fruityloops.

:neutral:


Waldhaus and Ophidian are around 19 and will kick EVERYONE's ass

[sputnik242]

I'll see if I can sort you a promo...

That'd be great if you could. Any chance you could get hold of the 2 promo 12s for Precious? My old contact for DM promos ain't available no more since he left Crash in Leeds last year :cry:

[Martin Dust]

Ophidian, did he do some tracks with Ruffneck?

[Martin Dust]

I'll see if I can sort you a promo...

That'd be great if you could. Any chance you could get hold of the 2 promo 12s for Precious? My old contact for DM promos ain't available no more since he left Crash in Leeds last year :cry:

Can't get wax out of Mute, just CD's - and when I do, it just the same as with a ickle promo sticker, you need God's cock and Jesus pushing to get hold of em Baz...

[The Overfiend]

if ophidian is 19 were all ****ed

[RDR]

if ophidian is 19 were all ****


We're all four star? Cant we be Five Star instead?

http://eil.com/newgallery/Five-Star-Treat-Me-Like-A-L-103251.jpg

:lol:

[Sunil]

if ophidian is 19 were all ****


We're all four star? Cant we be Five Star instead?

http://eil.com/newgallery/Five-Star-Treat-Me-Like-A-L-103251.jpg

:lol:

Hey, I liked a few of their songs. They were no match for A-Ha though

http://www.a-ha-mems.de/galerie/a-ha_004.jpg

:clap: :clap: :clap: