Techno Minimalism

[MARKEG]

I'm hearing alot of very minimal techno out there at the mo. Really loving alot of it, although don't know if I'd like to spend a whole night at a club listening to it. Richie Hawtin's latest CD, Slam's latest mix comp on Resist. It's all an increasing trend for techno artists and dj's to move to this style.

I really like the tougher aspect to minimal techno - not so much into the Rob Hood on Ketamine style, but each to their own.

Is anyone else really digging this sound at the mo??

[Traxx]

For home listening maybe but a whole night of it in a club would & has bored the arse off me on a good few occasions.

[massplanck]

yes and no.

to me minimal can be hard... but when I mean minimal i mean a complete absense of this "wall of sound" uber compressed shit that hurts my ears (dont kill me).. old heckman stuff is a minimal to me as it gets. A few bit of hardware floating over each other with the notes & spaces in all the right places. No need to hide the mistakes or rush things with a compressor.

Did you know that if you program all your sounds/level right.. you dont actually need to have a compressor.. :shock: Not to say i dont use one but you may get my drift..

Anyway dont hit me... Some of the minimal stuff is ****ing yawn yawn yawn but DBX\Bell is the king for me... and some Vanquer stuff is lovely.

[pumpinglemma]

Love the "master of mininalism" himself Rob Hood :twisted:

[doc12inch]

i rekon some nights shud start out minimal and go through the motions.


i know my sets and cds are going from a minimal point thru to more heavier/tribally stuff - depends how i feel

[JamieBall]

Did you know that if you program all your sounds/level right.. you dont actually need to have a compressor..

Depends, really. On whether or not you want it to sound 'compressed'. Your opinion about programming isn't strictly correct, though.

Feeling the old DBX myself, in my opinion none of this modern stuff stands up to old dan bell/pulsinger/hood stuff (even the output from these guys themselves!).

Whether or not something is fast or slow, hard or soft, you can always tell something cool when the hook grabs you straight off. All this old minimal stuff used to do that for me, I'd be zapped in straight away - the 'new wave' of minimal gear.... well.... doesn't.

One of the best nights out I've ever had was seeing Dan Bell about 8 years or so back, it was ****ing perfect. Hypnotic and punishing. I doubt anyone would have the gall to drop anything so relentlessly minimal and robotic these days. His sets seem to have gone all jazzy now (though the quality of the music is high and I love it, it's not the same style).

A lot of this minimal stuff these days seems a bit too much about chin stroking and being clever as far as I can see. Random squirty little metal noises fiddling around with each other. I mean 'MICRO HOUSE', 'GLITCH HOUSE' etc etc.... It's just minimal techno that thinks it's more intelligent than it is.

Also, minimal doesn't just mean 'slow and quiet'. Minimal tracks can be banging too ! As far as I'm concerned myself and many of my contemporaries play and produce 'minimal techno'. It fits all the criteria, anyway, it just don't sound like 'I'm losing control' anymore.

I think these categories may have arisen cause kids nowadays don't know the old gear and to them it's NOT what they are used to calling 'techno'.

Anyhoo, that's my 5 pence worth. :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

Love the "master of mininalism" himself Rob Hood :twisted:

not sure i've heard any minimal tracks from the past few years that can throw down with his m-plant classics.

[massplanck]

Did you know that if you program all your sounds/level right.. you dont actually need to have a compressor..

Depends, really. On whether or not you want it to sound 'compressed'. Your opinion about programming isn't strictly correct, though.



I know it isnt but you know what i mean.. uber compression of drumloops\songs hurt my brains sometimes.. no space to breath for sounds... I just like notes floating around by themselves.

[JamieBall]

Love the "master of mininalism" himself Rob Hood :twisted:

not sure i've heard any minimal tracks from the past few years that can throw down with his m-plant classics.

Indeed. That's what I'm talking about.

[stjohn]

i'm with you when you say that you couldnt handle a full night of it.

a full night of minimal just doesnt have the drive, but its a prefect introduction to any bangin session. build it up!!

nowadays when im buying records, id usually pick up 5 tuff records, and 1 or 2 minmal.... with the intention to try and fit them all in together.

@massplank: dont hit me, but i agree with ye on the mulitmillion layers of compressed loops and hi's. the ear gets too used to the over-indulgence of sound, and dont hit me when i say this........ when its just a few simple layers, each track and sound is more distinguished easier, giving its unique quality.

[SlavikSvensk]

word justmusic...maybe i'm being overly cynical, but i'm just not sure there is any new exciting minimal trend right now. most sounds like a weaker version of what was being made in the mid 1990s.

[massplanck]

@massplank: dont hit me, but i agree with ye on the mulitmillion layers of compressed loops and hi's. the ear gets too used to the over-indulgence of sound, and dont hit me when i say this........ when its just a few simple layers, each track and sound is more distinguished easier, giving its unique quality.

@st john.. dont hit me I agree. Space is good.

[Jay Sanders]

I was reading Mixmag last night and they were saying how Minimal is massive in Ibiza at the moment... they said the best nights this summer were Circo Loco @ DC10 and Cocoon @ Amnesia.... both being well mininal with giuests like Hawtin, Vath, Vilallabos etc.

Theres also a goo Minimal CD on the cover.... Mixed by Loco Dice, very good stuff indeed.

[JamieBall]

I can see that set really appreciating the vibe of the stuff Richie et al are playing at the moment.

After all, the 'music' they listen to most of the time.... :oops:

Must be refreshing for them to hear something a little less trite, ie not an 'anthem' for each and every mix ?

[FIK]

I like a bit of minimal, but not for a whole night out. I can't see me dancing all night long to the same blip-blop loop. For me it's more of pre or after-party style of music.

[Fordy]

I love it, cant be arsed to explain why I just do. But with everything, imo there should be moderation & variety.

Hawtins set on fri at sankeys, was minimal but built up to harder stuff, best set ive ever heard tbh, yet people i was with wasnt impressed.

[djshiva]

i don't mind some of the "modern" minimal like hawtin and villalobos and those cats play, but i can't handle an entire night of it, frankly.

and my main gripe is that most people i am hearing play the stuff, are boring ****ing djs. it's like, ok you can beatmatch. brilliant, now would you make the mix go somewhere please?

i can't be bothered with listening to the same ****ing bleep bloop for 8 hours...aaaaghhh...like chinese water torture...

[oldbugger]

minimal :love:

the less in it the better to me ;) i love all sorts of minimal techno, minimal house. infact if its minimal chances are i love it :lol:

why complicate tunes with all sorts of shit cluttering it up, one nice catchy hook is all you need any more just gets in the way ;)

[stjohn]

[quote="djshiva"]

and my main gripe is that most people i am hearing play the stuff, are boring **** djs. it's like, ok you can beatmatch. brilliant, now would you make the mix go somewhere please?
[quote]

with ye on that!! i only like playing minmal stuff if i have a djm600 or summin. it can make it all the more interesting

check the Jerome Hill micro mix posted in dark/exp forum. he well able to mix it up!

[DrewDavid]

Minimal (it would seem to me) is somewhat the new electro – in a good way though. Producers who have been at it for a while are getting more exposure and it's creeping into a lot of other's material, with some going so far as to start up new labels – Beyer's Mad Eye and Carola's Domino for starters. Thankfully it hasn't been as obvious or annoying as the electro revival, but I'm left to wonder how long this new interest will last.

There seems to be two camps: those producing/dj'ing absolutely stripped down, bleepy-bloopy weirdness ála Akufen, Hawtin; and those who have taken their formerly densely mixed sound, stripped it down a bit and upped the quirk factor, such as Beyer and Carola. It's minimal-ish.

A whole evening of Basic Channel and John Tejada might be best enjoyed at home surrounded by crushed velvet pillows, but I think with the amount of new minimal and "minimal-injected" coming out lately you could easily make a good night of it – it's really up to the DJs.

[Dustin Zahn]

there's a time and a place for everything. I love it all.

[Agent Orange NYC]

A lot of this minimal stuff these days seems a bit too much about chin stroking and being clever as far as I can see. Random squirty little metal noises fiddling around with each other. I mean 'MICRO HOUSE', 'GLITCH HOUSE' etc etc.... It's just minimal techno that thinks it's more intelligent than it is.



That is spot on my man, do you mind if i use this for my sig? lol

[Stella Boy]

I saw BC live last year and the last thing I wanted was crushed velvet pillows. I was stood in the dj booth screaming and shouting my arse off, totally unlike me :oops: :lol: . They were only on an hour but I could have done with another 6

Anywho, Hood & Dan Bell are the ones for me. All this new euro-style mnml which is being released is getting plain daft. It's not mnml, it's tech-house imo

[Dustin Zahn]

My biggest gripe about the new "minimal" fad isn't really about the music but the people. The majority of the people getting on the bandwagon are super elite and have no clue or history about techno or electronic music in general. Right here on BOA you'll find a lot of hard techno heads who appreciate minimal just as much as any other form of techno or house. If you go out to the trendy wine-techno hangouts or places like mnml.nl, those new DJ/producer types will frown upon anything that isn't the newest poker flat or akufen cut.

[Stella Boy]

My biggest gripe about the new "minimal" fad isn't really about the music but the people. The majority of the people getting on the bandwagon are super elite and have no clue or history about techno or electronic music in general. Right here on BOA you'll find a lot of hard techno heads who appreciate minimal just as much as any other form of techno or house. If you go out to the trendy wine-techno hangouts or places like mnml.nl, those new DJ/producer types will frown upon anything that isn't the newest poker flat or akufen cut.

hahaha, spot on :clap:

uber-chique.

[holotropik]

I like minimal. When its sone right its very crafty.
That said, a lot of the tripe comin out at the mo' is just bleep-blop using one machine and is boring as bat-shite. I havent heard many good tracks that are currently floating around in this fad.

[stjohn]

mnml.nl is a bit like that.....
i posted in the 'LIVESETS' asking for a few mixes, recommended or otherwise....... and the mod just deleted the thread straight away.

:dontevengothere: PAT RAFTER!

[audioinjection]

i dig the occasional minimal set here and there, also spin a bit of it myself sometimes, im not too picky

[DrewDavid]

cool... can't say I've heard anything live by them, so the only thing I can go by is the studio recordings. I do play some of the maurizio stuff out though.


I saw BC live last year and the last thing I wanted was crushed velvet pillows. I was stood in the dj booth screaming and shouting my arse off, totally unlike me :oops: :lol: . They were only on an hour but I could have done with another 6

[pumpinglemma]

Spot on man. Could not have said it better myself. Yeah not a big fan of the chin-stroking stuff either. A bit too devoid of any attitude..




Depends, really. On whether or not you want it to sound 'compressed'. Your opinion about programming isn't strictly correct, though.

Feeling the old DBX myself, in my opinion none of this modern stuff stands up to old dan bell/pulsinger/hood stuff (even the output from these guys themselves!).

Whether or not something is fast or slow, hard or soft, you can always tell something cool when the hook grabs you straight off. All this old minimal stuff used to do that for me, I'd be zapped in straight away - the 'new wave' of minimal gear.... well.... doesn't.

One of the best nights out I've ever had was seeing Dan Bell about 8 years or so back, it was **** perfect. Hypnotic and punishing. I doubt anyone would have the gall to drop anything so relentlessly minimal and robotic these days. His sets seem to have gone all jazzy now (though the quality of the music is high and I love it, it's not the same style).

A lot of this minimal stuff these days seems a bit too much about chin stroking and being clever as far as I can see. Random squirty little metal noises fiddling around with each other. I mean 'MICRO HOUSE', 'GLITCH HOUSE' etc etc.... It's just minimal techno that thinks it's more intelligent than it is.

Also, minimal doesn't just mean 'slow and quiet'. Minimal tracks can be banging too ! As far as I'm concerned myself and many of my contemporaries play and produce 'minimal techno'. It fits all the criteria, anyway, it just don't sound like 'I'm losing control' anymore.

I think these categories may have arisen cause kids nowadays don't know the old gear and to them it's NOT what they are used to calling 'techno'.

Anyhoo, that's my 5 pence worth. :lol:

[MARKEG]

i realise this minimal thing is creating a really trendy scene, but if i'm being totally honest, i like it alot but. i don't love it. and just cause it's trendy doesnt mean i'm going to love it. but i do like it. alot. in the car - i LIKE it -cause it's something different.

but i really would like to see this develop into something harder.

slam's mix got me cause it was harder.

richie's was almost progressive. still really good though ;)

yeah, there's some very interesting stuff coming out here right now. we all need to keep our eyes on it imho

;)

[stjohn]

so...its not bangin.........

but you have to admit. if you were at a festival, big tent style..... and DJ XYZ was playing a 4 hour set.

He starts of with some ****y-tekke minimalistic sh*t unitl t - 3 hours. then by the time t -2 hours is about.... everything is all upbeat and driving, funky as f*ck..... by the time the t- 2 and t- 1 arrive, the place is just bangin .

then the whole place goes north...for the summer!

[eyeswithoutaface]

its good stuff most the time, but everyman and his dog is jumping on the minimal applecart and it shows in the productions those who've been there from the start and those who are trying to get a slice of the pie so to speak

[The Overfiend]

bleep block
chizz
schoomp schoomp tack
drip drip drip drip
bleep block
chizz
schoomp schoomp tack
drip drip drip drip

[Jay Sanders]

bleep block
chizz
schoomp schoomp tack
drip drip drip drip
bleep block
chizz
schoomp schoomp tack
drip drip drip drip

Yeah Tony thats what i was thinking man!!

:lol:

[Jay Pace]

I think minimal is amazing, but its more reliant on a good system.

Sonar this year with Richie finishing up was incredible. Broody, dark and funky at the same time, but the bass just slammed at you. Played nearly a third of his set with the EQs cut, but when the bass kicked back in my lord it formidable.

I can't fail to be impressed by someone rocking a crowd at 120bpm with so few noises, when others fail at 150 with all the crunch in the world.

[JamieBall]

but i really would like to see this develop into something harder. ;)

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, sir.

There's always room for more bump and grind. You can apply this rule to anything in life, really, unless you're making flat frictionless surfaces that is (read into this what you will ;) )

Also, how come a schranz record can do NOTHING for 6 minutes and not be classed as 'minimal' ? If you got a recording of someone screaming down a mic for six minutes I'd call it minimal, even if they were screaming REAL loud.

'Minimal' stuff nowadays seems to have a lot more smarts, production wise, when compared to a lot of the churned out 'hard' techno I'm currently hearing. Seems like the description 'hard' is chucked at anything that's fast and 4/4 with distortion on it. That's not the recipe for hard in my book. There are other ingredients. You can even use different ones entirely. Strange that things should become less innovative when the ability to become more so has been handed to us on a plate, at least technologically...

Maybe this is what you're driving at, Mark ? In that music excels when it is both for (and by?) the brain AND the body. A lot of techno these days is very predictable. In my book, this means it's not techno. No matter how 'hard' it is.

Let's look FORWARD !

[RDR]

Haha your minimalist ****ers! Where is the Boom Boom Boom Boom?

We need more Sven! throw some more East Germans on the fire!!! more steam i tell you!

[holotropik]

Its interesting that peeps think it has to be "just like hawtin does it" to be minimal. Then they proceed to chees it up to the point where you just end up with bleep, blop, plop and no guts.

Minimal is a very tricky thing to do properly and I consider it a very evolutionary stage of a producers path, not to be taken lightly or just jumped on like some sort of band-wagon.

It can be fast or slow, hard or soft.

[Jay Pace]

Read a good essay once on the link between techno and abstract art.

Basically said that the less is more approach was evidence of mastery of of more complex forms.

You can only reduce to minimalism and abstraction when you know exactly what you are doing.

Otherwise you actually do sound like a bunch of bleeps and wibbles.

[RDR]

Read a good essay once on the link between techno and abstract art.

Basically said that the less is more approach was evidence of mastery of of more complex forms.

You can only reduce to minimalism and abstraction when you know exactly what you are doing.

Otherwise you actually do sound like a bunch of bleeps and wibbles.

Wow - that makes it sound really, really snotty.

[Jay Pace]

Read a good essay once on the link between techno and abstract art.

Basically said that the less is more approach was evidence of mastery of of more complex forms.

You can only reduce to minimalism and abstraction when you know exactly what you are doing.

Otherwise you actually do sound like a bunch of bleeps and wibbles.

Wow - that makes it sound really, really snotty.

how so?

[doc12inch]

I was reading Mixmag last night and they were saying how Minimal is massive in Ibiza at the moment... they said the best nights this summer were Circo Loco @ DC10 and Cocoon @ Amnesia.... both being well mininal with giuests like Hawtin, Vath, Vilallabos etc.

Theres also a goo Minimal CD on the cover.... Mixed by Loco Dice, very good stuff indeed.

my mates wer at cocoon this year when sven vath didnt turn up and said james holden managed to make the whole night more minimal than prog which he normally plays. good on him

[Frank Dogshit]

I was reading Mixmag last night and they were saying how Minimal is massive in Ibiza at the moment... they said the best nights this summer were Circo Loco @ DC10 and Cocoon @ Amnesia.... both being well mininal with giuests like Hawtin, Vath, Vilallabos etc.

Theres also a goo Minimal CD on the cover.... Mixed by Loco Dice, very good stuff indeed.

my mates wer at cocoon this year when sven vath didnt turn up and said james holden managed to make the whole night more minimal than prog which he normally plays. good on him

hes another one on the minimal bandwagon,hardly plays prog no more so it seems. to be fair though from listening to some old progressive house cds the other week there isnt really a huge difference between the 2 genres.

[Jay Sanders]

Yeah ive heard alot of good things about Jame sHolden recently... his productions kick ass!!!

[TechMouse]

Yeah ive heard alot of good things about Jame sHolden recently... his productions kick ass!!!
Remix of "The Sky Was Pink" by Nathan Fake is outstanding.

[RDR]

Read a good essay once on the link between techno and abstract art.

Basically said that the less is more approach was evidence of mastery of of more complex forms.

You can only reduce to minimalism and abstraction when you know exactly what you are doing.

Otherwise you actually do sound like a bunch of bleeps and wibbles.

Wow - that makes it sound really, really snotty.

how so?

It just stinks of the Elitism and self congratulatory bollocks and you can only do this if you are the best, nonsense that rears its ugly head sometimes. I just happen to believe that music can be written by anyone with a passion , rather than what the essay (essay...!) says - you have to know what you are doing?

I understand what the essay writer is talking about, minimalism in art is an interesting concept. But when those who comment on the scene, like the essay writer is doing, try to place boundaries on who can and cant do it, depending upon percieved ability.

Im probably going a little overboard, but it gets my goat. Its the whole "Ubercoolische" philosophy that really makes me want to vomit.

[Jay Pace]

Read a good essay once on the link between techno and abstract art.

Basically said that the less is more approach was evidence of mastery of of more complex forms.

You can only reduce to minimalism and abstraction when you know exactly what you are doing.

Otherwise you actually do sound like a bunch of bleeps and wibbles.

Wow - that makes it sound really, really snotty.

how so?

It just stinks of the Elitism and self congratulatory bollocks and you can only do this if you are the best, nonsense that rears its ugly head sometimes. I just happen to believe that music can be written by anyone with a passion , rather than what the essay (essay...!) says - you have to know what you are doing?

I understand what the essay writer is talking about, minimalism in art is an interesting concept. But when those who comment on the scene, like the essay writer is doing, try to place boundaries on who can and cant do it, depending upon percieved ability.

Im probably going a little overboard, but it gets my goat. Its the whole "Ubercoolische" philosophy that really makes me want to vomit.

Easy badger, that's not quite what I was getting at.

Any form of art can be analysed, and techno is no different.
What they were talking about was that techno has a rawness, simplicity and beauty that can be paralleled with abstract art.

I'm not into being wanky for the sake of being wanky, but I really like reading what people were trying to do when they make minimal music.

Same as knowing the ideas behind paintings by Mondrian or Kandinsky make them that much more interesting.

Just as you can reduce abstract art to "just a bunch of squares and random blobs" you can reduce minimal techno to just a bunch of bleeps.
You could level the same criticism that "my five year old could do better" at a lot of minimal stuff.

Its not elitism, I just think that especially with minimal there is a lot going on beneath the surface that isn't that obvious. Its not virtuoso performance screaming "look how clever I am" with every over produced second of it, the talent lies behind it. It's much more subtle.

Sorry, I couldn't think of any other way of saying this, and am aware that this probably sounds really poncy. Incidentally the essay was on the inside of a CD cover. Can't remember which one, but it was a brief 4 page inlay on techno's history, and it stuck in my mind because I liked the parallel.

I'll get me coat.
:doh:

[TechMouse]

I think what you're trying to say is that in order to do minimalism well, you need to know what you can take away without losing the essence of a piece.

[schlongfingers]

Or to emphasise the essence.

[TechMouse]

Or to emphasise the essence.
Indeed.

I do think that better producers can do more with less, and that's the trick... but I think some people can just naturally do more with less, and that's equally as valid as arriving there through a convoluted route taking in very big complex sounds.

[Fordy]

Alex Smoke, nuff said.

[MARKEG]

yeah really love alex smoke's stuff :clap:

[Jay Sanders]

TechMouse - Yeah that remix of 'The Sky was pink' is a cracker....

I used to buy and hear alot of James Holdens stuff when he was producing Prog House... Like Frank said.. it isnt that far from minimal really!!

[Jay Sanders]

The other thing with it becoming increasingly popular is that fact thats every magazine and club has jumped in and said... "Oh Yeah we Love Minimal"

Mixmag and IDJ this month both have Massive Ritchie Hawtin interviews in them... not knocking this but it just goes to show how much coverage it must be getting.... Even a minmial CD on Mixmag cover.... i bet theres a lot of people out there that usually love the Lisa Lashes cds or whatever scrathing their heads.

[TechMouse]

Magda, make the tea...

[RDR]

The other thing with it becoming increasingly popular is that fact thats every magazine and club has jumped in and said... "Oh Yeah we Love Minimal"

Mixmag and IDJ this month both have Massive Ritchie Hawtin interviews in them... not knocking this but it just goes to show how much coverage it must be getting.... Even a minmial CD on Mixmag cover.... i bet theres a lot of people out there that usually love the Lisa Lashes cds or whatever scrathing their heads.

Thats part of what i was getting at. The positivity is nothing to dis' fo sho' and i certainly give artists the props they deserve.

I Like a lot of minimal, how can i not - some of it is superb. Millsian minimalism - beast! Hawtin minimalism - not very beast in my book..(IMO of course)

I just wanna say that i suspect HIGHLY anything that has the potential to call itself high art, and minimalistic techno has this potential. I'm kinda down to earth about these things, and i love complex sounds. However It kinda begs the question "Can you have highly complex minimalism that dodgyedgy wont feel annoyed with?"

Probably...

[doc12inch]

I was reading Mixmag last night and they were saying how Minimal is massive in Ibiza at the moment... they said the best nights this summer were Circo Loco @ DC10 and Cocoon @ Amnesia.... both being well mininal with giuests like Hawtin, Vath, Vilallabos etc.

Theres also a goo Minimal CD on the cover.... Mixed by Loco Dice, very good stuff indeed.

my mates wer at cocoon this year when sven vath didnt turn up and said james holden managed to make the whole night more minimal than prog which he normally plays. good on him

hes another one on the minimal bandwagon,hardly plays prog no more so it seems. to be fair though from listening to some old progressive house cds the other week there isnt really a huge difference between the 2 genres.

my mate used to be into happy hardcore - now hes into minimal stuff - one extreme to another

[basslinejunkie]

i really like a bit of minimal,as some of you have probably seen as i post a few sets in the files sections now an again.its just summit diffrent,good for chillin out to.its an absloute pleasure to mix aswell,really fun.

[Jay Pace]

I just wanna say that i suspect HIGHLY anything that has the potential to call itself high art, and minimalistic techno has this potential.

Gabber has that pedestal.
Minimal could only compete if it was sped up to 220bpm.
;)

I love minimal for getting the same effect out of a crowd with less. That takes talent.

Proper minimal should be able to rock a crowd and get it grooving in just the same way that hard or funky techno can.

Poncy parallels can be drawn if you like that sort of thing. Keeps us blethering types happy anyway...

[TheRev]

I wouldn't want to hear minimal all night at a club just as much as I wouldn't want to hear any other genre all night at a club.

That said i don't feel minimal is good peak time music. Good for the start of the night, great for the end, but when my blood is pumping and i'm warmed up and ready to throw down I want a bit more than bleep bloop whirrrrr

A good sound system is totally critical. Michael Mayer had me bopping about like a robot with epilepsy last i saw him. Matthew Dear also blew my mind. Both played on one of the best sound systems I've heard recently in New York and i really think that made a HUGE difference.

One thing I've noticed about minimal though it is in line to the increasing age (at least in the states) of techno consumers. It's less abrasive, lacking some of the raw energy. I feel like it may be a further alienation from the youth the music needs to endear in order to survive and flourish in the future. But maybe that's my skewed Stateside view talking.

[Ian]

there are two kinds of music... good and bad.

once we go beyond that we are just wasting time and energy.

most "minimal" techno is tripe, some is brilliant. most "hard" techno is shite, some is great.

to be honest, the good "minimal" is getting better than most of the good "hard techno".

[The Overfiend]

Eidolon..........
Some of the best I've heard from that genre.
But I don't agree about the better than most hard comment.

[TheRev]

there are two kinds of music... good and bad.

once we go beyond that we are just wasting time and energy.

most "minimal" techno is tripe, some is brilliant. most "hard" techno is shite, some is great.

to be honest, the good "minimal" is getting better than most of the good "hard techno".

That depends if you are trying to objectively classify music or subjectively.

There are many objective classifications of music that can be made based on forum, sounds used, tempo, etc that have no relation to whether or not you think it has any merit.

What is being lumped under minimal has been done so because it uses a certain sonic palette and has a stripped down vertical structure. This sonic palette differs from schranz or hard techno.

All objective statements that can be made for the purpose of discussing music without actually having listening points to reference.

Whether or not you find those sorts of discussions worthwhile is up to you.......

[Analog.1]

I remember when the term 'minimal' was first introduced around 95 - 97 and those minimal tracks in those days were proper. Proper talented producers or should i say purists ;) making some serious music using proper analog equipment, none of this vst minimal glitch stuff, i find the new minimal sound sounds far too precise and clean, i dont hate it but dont love it either.

[Craig McW]

Matthew Dear/Audion
Peter Grummich
Daniel Bell
Dan Curtin
Thomas Brinkmann
Luciano

Hot!!!!!!!!!!!

[V..]

Things were better when it was all just fields.
I remember the good old days.
Pasteurs of green.
The daisy`s in the meadows.
Little hedgrows and butteflies.
Now it`s all concrete and tarmac and glass and steel.

Things were better then......

[Jay Pace]

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..

Props python boys, props...