final scratch load of old w*nk or touch of class

[davethedrummer]

final scratch sounds good in theory
but i don't like the download potential of it
nor do i like the idea of setting it up after the last dj
or having your laptop in a club
also i reckon you'd have to take a bg of tunes just in case anything goes wrong.
what's it actually like?
and i mean for us not for richie hawtin who has it all set up for him at the begginning of the night normally.

[Barely Human]

I think that this is one of the most inovative products i have seen in a long time! The potential of it is very good but there'res still a lot of factors agaist it. One thing is for sure, a vinyl wont crash half way through a mix!

[DJZeMig_L]

This is a really great new thing...

It really responds like a vinyl (unless u cue very fast)...

Know probs...

Crashes... apparently know will b worst cause it runs from windows.. b4 it ran totally indie. ... u'd start yer pc and u choose .. windows or fs...

if the neddle jumps a bit can b tricky...

U best have a seperate power plug with surge protector..

the setuping is a bitch :( .. this probably the worst problem with this system...

U cannot run more than 2 decks from 1 pc/ FS...


Downloading music is and will always b a prob... have u tryed a Pioneer cd1000 ... i had do a simple demo of 1 recently and was absolutly :shock: ...

Z

[lunatrick]

I've seen it used and thought it sounded ok, but for what you're doing i don't see the need the decks and the mixer thing at all. You can use something like traktor on a laptop with two stereo outputs and plug these into a normal mixer and bingo....you've got an mp3 system that you can get into the mix with, which would be easy to setup even half way through a night, plug them in and switch over to line.

i think final scratch is overhyped and overpriced, especially as software is so easy to 'evaluate' these days :wink: I think using traktor or something similar would be a good way to do a live pa, without all the equipment and also you get the excitement of the mix, which live pa's often lack. I presume by download potential you mean people not paying for tunes, which is going to be a problem, but for showcasing your own stuff I think it would be a creative step ahead.

then again you coud just burn stuff to cdr and get a pioneer cd mixer...ho hum.

i though Dave Clarkes quote on final scratch was funny :-

"despite not enjoying carrying records along airport corridors I'm sure my discomfort pays off when people watch me using records other than a computer, let's face it, you don't get intrigued crowds staring at insurance salesman processing a quote, "ohh nice use of the return button!"
:lol:

[Barely Human]

I've seen it used and thought it sounded ok, but for what you're doing i don't see the need the decks and the mixer thing at all. You can use something like traktor on a laptop with two stereo outputs and plug these into a normal mixer and bingo....you've got an mp3 system that you can get into the mix with, which would be easy to setup even half way through a night, plug them in and switch over to line.


This is all quite true, but to turntablists its a godsend. You can now make your own beats and breaks on your pc, and then beat juggle them to your hearts content. The fact that it gives you more control over your mixes, unlike traktor, means it will stand as good shot at evolving into somthing brilliant. But now NI have made a version of Traktor for the final scratch. But i agree, it is overpriced, for something that is no more than a gimicky mp3 player :?

[lunatrick]

Ok for turntablism I admit traktor wouldn't do the job, but for techno mixing where the eq's and crossfader are the main focus it would work. Also if your into the decks that much your just going to get dub plates cut, just to keep it real like! :lol:

talking of which whatever happened to vestax's vinyl cutter, don't hear much about that now?

[DJZeMig_L]

Lunatrick .. there is 1 slight mistake in what U r saying... the big thing about final scratch is not playing yer tracks from a computer ... BUT the fact that u play' em just like a record.. the way fs works is u get 3 time/tone coded vinil that tell the software exactly were the needle is and what pitch... man I use pitch riding technic while playing and was absolutly :shock: :shock: :shock: when I saw how fast FS would keep up 2 all slight touches on the vinil ... even a small touch on the label would be transladed imediatly just like any ordinary vinil!!!! :)

Has 2 cracked software .. U could b right if this New FS traktor wasn't designed specifically 4 FS... also FS comes with a small sort of "USB SOUNDCARD".. this is were u plug the decks ... when using fs the audio for your tracks comes out of this box on a normal line output (1 4 each deck)...

That's why setting up is a bit** ... not that it's dificult but for the fact that U'd probably need 2 do a short stop and have easy access 2 the back of the mixer...

Z

[lunatrick]

not too sure about the new version of traktor. I admit that pushing and pulling the deck will be lost, but these aren't desirable effects anyway really, it's a lot better to adjust the pitch using only the pitch slider if you can (not always possible I know :lol: )

anyway my point was that if you want to be able to mix mp3 there are easier ways to do it. I accept that the hands on feel will be lost though, which would be step too far for some people.

[DJZeMig_L]

Damn' man U geting me all wrong here... :( :?

The BIG ADVANTAGE of FS is the hands on ... U play just like a regular vinil, u pitch up/ touch/ backspin/ scratch just like a regular record!!! :shock: :P

The feeling stays..
U don't need 2 put yer trackz in mp3... u can play wav or aiff!!

Hope that makes clear what I meant 2 say... :)

[miromiric.]

yep yep its the same as u play regular vinyl.
when they solve freezing/no more then 2 decks shite it will rule the planet.

[lunatrick]

Ze Migl - sorry for confusion - I was agreeing with what you were saying - if the hands on is what you want then final scratch is what you need i.e for scratching etc. :lol:

[Francisco Scaramanga]

As I understood it, there was no freezing/crashing issue with FS. I had thought that it ran only on linux, and therefore eliminated Microsofts infamous blue screens and the like. I might be a bit dubious about using it on MS, but I know that linux is as near to uncrashble as you are going to get on a normal laptop. And having said that, I use windows on my laptop to play live with a program called PCDJ, and it's not crashed yet.

Also, as far as I know you can still use three decks, or 18 if you are so inclined, but final scratch will only work on two of them. But there is no reason why you can't plug in a third deck and use normal vinyls, in fact you can use normal vinyls on decks set up for final scratch.

[DJZeMig_L]

Xico U r absolutly right..<crashed R generally down 2 faulty/ unstable power lines ... We had 1 at the shop and never ever crashed!

But I have my questions now with it running inside Win! :( .. will C I guess... though if u r going 2 take it live ... I guess U r better off creating a new Particion with Win JUST 4 this use!!!

My rant is also only 2 decks... If I wanted 2 carry my crates I didn't need FS ... :P

Z

[ampassasinbirmingham]

good used as a tool but not as a whole set!!!!

[Philth]

what about the ipod that's coming out with pitch controls on it? personally, i think it looks really odd having this huge mixer next to these dinky ipod units. not too comfortable with the downloading implications as well... labels are struggling enough.

http://www.selekta.com/diana/ipod/mac24.jpg
http://www.selekta.com/content/templates/articles_template.asp?articleid=307&zoneid=6

[DJZeMig_L]

The thing is loosing all the Vynil touch ... 4 that U can carry a couple of cds... it's a little bigger but still a CDJ 1000/ 800 has a very very nice handling!!

Z

[davethedrummer]

very interesting reading everyones replies
after playing live for years and being really used to having bits of gear go down samplers laptops crash etc etc i would be very reluctant to rely 100% on this ststem to get me through the night week after week
which means i'd have to bring records and enought records to play a whole set in case it doesn't even work from the start.
(i still take a bag of tunes when i play live just in case.)
so i reckon that it'll actually mean me carrying more stuff not less.

also laptops are not suitable for clubs (yet)
mouse pads and mice are tricky to use when every surface you put them on is vibrating ,drinks and fags and sweat (contrary to popular belief) do not enhance you p.c. or mac's performance
neither do clumsy people crashing into dj booths out of thier heads on whatever looking around in the dark for thier girlfriends coat.

what all these software people need to remember is that when you are gigging regulaly hardware is the one way to do it reliably.
dedicated units that do one thing and one thing only
what if they (final scratch) made a universal hardware unit that clubs could fit as part of the in house system so you just had to bring along a hard drive or something similar, plug in load up your set and away you go?

i reckon there is a future for fs but i still think it's a bit of pain in the ass for the avaerge club dj to carry and use.

basically my rule is that anything that encourages you to get behind the mixer mid-gig and start unplugging and replugging things is a bit poorly thought through

i don't think i'll be going for it
unless obviously i get some amazing cheapo deal on it.

[spiralx]

Hardware would be cool - if you can get one of those Archaos Jukebox things that holds 20 gigs of MP3s in the size of a Walkman I can't see that a dedicated Final Scratch style unit would have to be particularly huge... or expensive.

[DJAmok]

to be honest... with all the crashes and bugs, the delay and the fact that you have to bring a laptop along every time you play it ain´t really worth the trouble of setting it up. Two Pioneer CDJ-1000 will beat FS anytime.

[DJZeMig_L]

Amok ... i will have 2 disagree (sorry :oops: )... I would take the vinyl feel over the cd anytime.. though I will agree that the cdj1000 r brilliant, still crazy enougth the 800 have a faster response, the looping possibility is :shock: .. I guess I could b biased as I have depended on technics 4 over 15 years now so .... Also U talk about delay, what version have u tryed? what was yer machine?

I probably am sounding really excited with this FS thingy.. but I was very very doubtfull till I actually tryed 1!!!... So all I can say is go try it (if u haven't already) and then let Us know!!

Still Dave brought up a really important issue, heavy clubb atmosphere...
All I can say and I do agree (with ya on the better 2 b safe than sorry) on taking some tunes with ya, is that If I was using (which in spite of all the trust/ faith I put on the system .. I ain't) FS i would take with me some CDs.. I hate CDs but this is a fail safe with U probably won't need 99% of the time.. so I would go 4 comfort!!
Club system... Even if clubs only had the hardware and I needed 2 take my on PC I think I would give it a go!! This might happen very soon as a lot of "big" djs r getting on the program.. so by demanding it clubs will eventually consider buying it and Having it!

Z

Z

[Jimfish]

definitly handy tool though, im actually just sending cds over to staffan with all the up coming releases so he can do a mix cd on FS to go with a record we are putting out shortly. Dead handy for stuff like that, or maybe for putting mixed versions of all me new gear on my website (hurry up with that henrik!).
trouble is, i cant mix...
cant i have one that does the mixing for me too so i can just stand behind the decks doing hunky poses?

basically i think at the mo. it has more use behind the scences in the studios and what not. As you mentioned, 70% of clubs have either got shite everywhere or open booths or somthing so it is not quite suitible as yet methinks. And i guess the whole mp3 thing is a whole other issue.

[wojtek]

basically i think at the mo. it has more use behind the scences in the studios and what not. As you mentioned, 70% of clubs have either got shite everywhere or open booths or somthing so it is not quite suitible as yet methinks. And i guess the whole mp3 thing is a whole other issue.

I've been looking into FS a fair bit, only for home use... as it works out a damn of a lot cheaper than a pair of 1000s

I can't see it replacing the trusty record box though.

[Antinoise]

Anything that looks forward and is innovative should not be dismissed. Techno is built on innovation… FS falls in that category.

As a technology its the shit.. I have it set up in the studio and it’s never crashed or faulted once. Its like anything else in the PC world.. you have to know the right gear and how to set it up or its not going to work. (Next person I hear saying PC's suck who is using a crap MBoard and stock ram, etc..is going to get the back of my hand!) Like any new technology, there are kinks to work out. It all just takes time to get over the transition pains. The unplug/plugging-in mid party is the the main issue. However in time, this (or a similar digital technology) will be the standard and the world will be a wonderful place where we carrying only carry a ?pod and a set of phones. (BTW, For plugging in - The best solution is to carry a minidisk with a opening track and plug that into a open line... that way you can _uck around setting it up while that strokes the crowd (and not have to worry about skipping the previous DJ's needel!)).

Beyond hardware, copyright issues are the biggest thing to overcome. In the best case world, there would be an iron locked unbreakable format that everyone could sell right from their own web site. It would be the “Perfect Buisness Model”. However, with MP3's as available as they are.. that model fails and… a world with FS installed in every club still using copyable mp3's would mean death to sales.

I think the music industry should invest all this money they are spending on lawyers to make that new audio format. I know 'anything' can be hacked and broken…. But….. if its made tough enough so that 95% of the people would stop from searching for that underground copy, I think it would be successful.

Hey Henry.. If you want to check out FS, next time your in Venice come by the old party pad (turned romper room) and check it out.

-G

[tioneb]

about setting up fs in clubs/parties i guess a good solution would be to buy fsbox separately, like they do for the records. that would allow the club to make some proper plugin of the wires, and the guest dj would only have to plug his computer on the usb and bring his records.

that would also allow all the "free soft addicts" to get the hardware they cant build themselves and get an illegal copy of the soft, so fs box would lose its anti piracy thingy.

about the problem of bringing laptops in parties, dave is right the comps are not designed for such environment, but its been many many years people use to bring laptops for live PAs so so i dont thnik they will stop doing this once FS is among us.

[Eddie]

Sorry to bring this back up, but after seeing surgeon using final scratch on friday i have to say it is a whole lot more than a vinyl replacement. The ability to edit tracks, specifically for mixes, the simplicity of accessing your "tunes" and to be able to que them up with the record that is already on the deck all adds to making a more exciting set. Surgeons set on friday was flawless, and i now believe that he should be show casing final scratch, not hawtin, who actually bored me when i seen him use it. As for the only being able to use two decks, i thought there was an option where you could overlay two (or more) tunes on one record, you would loose some of the eq control, but i am sure before long stanton will sort this out. I agree with the problems of piracy, because to be honest, unless i really liked a tune (this is supposing i had final scratch) i wouldnt buy it, i would simpley download it.

[Skarabex]

well...just somethings to say.
on FS you could do things that you can;t imagine doing on tts.
such as: looping chosen parts from the track; you don't need to be afraid of making scratches on the plate; very usefull to play your "own" productions (even if it's not pressed on vinyl) etc...

btw check this out ->> HERE!!!! (http://tek.moo.jp/_img/224.jpg)&HERE!!! (http://tek.moo.jp/etcfile/techcd02.jpg)

I found it....really REVOLUTIONARY!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Eddie]

They look well smart the cd 1200's have they released a price yet?

[DJZeMig_L]

The mixer will b out feb.. probable price.. 1000 Euros/ USD

The CD Decks ... December ... 800 Euros/ USD!!

Z

[Antinoise]

Damm.. the Technics SL-DZ1200 look sick.. Plays CD's and MP3's..

Movie here:
http://www.dancefrontdoor.co.uk/misc/technics-CD-DanceFrontDoor.mpg

With technics getting in the game... I think everyone has to face up to the fact that vinyl is entering the first phase of becoming the 8-track tape. I know vinyl purists will be kicking and screaming.... but.. that will be your downfall.. I pitty those who claim to live in the techno scene and yet hanging on to old ways of thinking.

The new business model will be selling mp3's off your own website to users for a buck... or .... Labels having monthly reg subscriptions for $20 and all releases are downloadable. The techno scene should be the pioneers of such ways of thinking instead of dragging its heals like the RIAA..

[The Overfiend]

Damm.. the Technics SL-DZ1200 look sick.. Plays CD's and MP3's..

Movie here:
http://www.dancefrontdoor.co.uk/misc/technics-CD-DanceFrontDoor.mpg

With technics getting in the game... I think everyone has to face up to the fact that vinyl is entering the first phase of becoming the 8-track tape. I know vinyl purists will be kicking and screaming.... but.. that will be your downfall.. I pitty those who claim to live in the techno scene and yet hanging on to old ways of thinking.

The new business model will be selling mp3's off your own website to users for a buck... or .... Labels having monthly reg subscriptions for $20 and all releases are downloadable. The techno scene should be the pioneers of such ways of thinking instead of dragging its heals like the RIAA..

:clap: :clap:

[relish]

ive had fs since it came out and i have to agree that the only probs with crashes was a dodgy power cable. It runs in linux so its basically bombproof and i even saw Paul Van Dyk do his entire set off one at Amnesia, Ibiza.

three cheers for FS :clap: :clap: :clap: