JUST MUSIC - JUST SCREWED !

[JamieBall]

Hi there, just a brief note to let you all know the we would appear to be >officially< 100% fúckéd !!!

I've had my suspicions but ain't really been filled in until very recently on just how doomy things are down there (I don't live in England, btw). Still ain't heard fully what the script is as I can't get anyone to talk to me about it. :-(

Anyways, I've posted something about it in the 'ordering from Just Music' topic on the acid forum. Anyone who has outstanding orders with us should check this for info.

Don't bother phoning the office, if I can't get an answer damn straight you guys ain't gonna.

This SUCKS. Really sorry to everyone involved who may have been burnt. Personally I've lost around £8,000 in sales money/stock etc etc that I'm NEVER going to get back. HOORAY!

Anyways, check the other forum for more in depth info (ranting??)

Wish things hadn't come to this in some respects, obviously, but the whole business with the company has been fúckÃ*ng with my life for a while now with regards to poor cashflow etc (which EVERY distributor has to deal with these days).

Can't even take honeys out dancing or whatever - LAME. That's mostly all I used to do before this 'business' kicked off, back when I got this thing called a wage :evil:

Anyways, I'm going job hunting - right NOW.

[eyeswithoutaface]

sorry to hear all this, hope it works out Ja

[The Overfiend]

Now I'm pissed.
What is the next step?

[marginmaster]

:cry:

[Matt Blak]

just owe me around £700, :cry:
good job i got all my stock out of there last week :lol:
otherwise it could have been ALOT worse :!:

[JamieBall]

Indeed.

Oh, and can we NOT talk no more about cash owed, tis just going to piss me off.

It's GONE.

As are several years of my life trying to make something work that even most of the labels/people involved gave me little or no respect for.

There is something also to be said for becoming what you hate. See annakin/vader in episode 3 for further proof. I mean, I HATE shit techno - and what were the majority of the records we were selling towards the end ??

I hate to be brutal, but..... Have people out there learned NOTHING ?

Like my mom used to say, if you've nothing good to say - DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Does the world NEED more boring club techno that pale's in comparison with the original work it's basically trying to COPY ???

ANSWER: NO

Techno for me is being killed by a lot of the people who mistakenly think they're 'involved' in it. Anyone can pick up a paintbrush and say they're an artist, after all.

Sorry if this seems negative but I really don't see what good these labels/people are doing. They would do more good for the music they claim to 'love' by just....... well........ STOPPING THEIR LABEL.

Who gives a damn what names you have on your record... Is it any good ? Does it STAND for anything ? What is it's PURPOSE ? Is it pushing things FORWARD or is it just - at the end of the day - generic NONSENSE ??

NB: THIS is why I didn't work in London !!! If I'd have been in charge of that place the warehouse would have been pretty much empty - I shÃ*t you not. I do not have a healthy opinion of most new techno coming out, though I'll gladly jump through hoops for stuff that IS good. Sadly, you gotta sell records to stay in business (not that it helped us, though).

[massplanck]

:clap:

[Jay Pace]

[quote="Just Music"]
Who gives a damn what names you have on your record... Is it any good ? Does it STAND for anything ? What is it's PURPOSE ? Is it pushing things FORWARD or is it just - at the end of the day - generic NONSENSE ?? [quote]

Generic nonsense sells. Seems to be the No 1. rule of the music industry.

Sorry you got burned mate. If you want to go niche and only release forward thinking future stuff I would suggest you go down the MP3 route - low overheads and all that.

But I'm sorry, I don't think Techno is being killed off at all. There's loads of decent stuff coming out at the moment, but it has a different direction.

This doesn't mean death, it means change.

Anyway, best of luck in whichever way you go next.

[The Divide]

Best of luck with the digital thing if you down that road

[Sunil]

But I'm sorry, I don't think Techno is being killed off at all. There's loads of decent stuff coming out at the moment, but it has a different direction.



He didn't say it's being killed off completely. His point about many labels doing more harm than good is right though.

Loads of decent stuff coming out? I'm not being negative, but basically this is the slackest year I can remember to date.

[Sunil]

And all the best by the way. Hope you manage to recoup some of your money.

[JamieBall]

"But I'm sorry, I don't think Techno is being killed off at all. There's loads of decent stuff coming out at the moment, but it has a different direction. "

Maybe you find good techno cause you're LOOKING for it, though ?

Different direction ? WHERE ? In your book, maybe...

Techno on the continent is still healthy-ish (though still dropping in sales) - but in the UK the scene is SCREWED. There is no disputing this, really. Pockets of resistance remain, but nothing that could be classed as an army. Everyone who works in shops (the ones that are left) in the Uk has told me the same. People are bored with low quality techno and have had to suffer it for too long.

There's too many labels releasing music that is too formulaic and boring as a result of certain label bosses not seeing the wood for the trees.

Would you start a soft drinks company and call it 'COKE' and pirate their recipe and give it the same packaging ??? No, you would not. For it would be financial suicide. Don't understand why people think this rule is okay when applied to techno.

There's NOT "loads" of decent stuff coming out. There is good music, sure, but there's a LOT of shÃ*té out there. I think this is where artists being 'personal' about their music comes into play. I don't give a shit if someone has spent hours on a piece of music and thinks it's great etc. If I reckon it's rubbish I'm happy to say so. What's the point in letting people labour under misapprehensions when it's hurting the rest of us ???

To be honest this discussion could run and run, though, as I'm sure many people in here like music that I don't and vice versa. It's all subjective.

And I don't need a lecture on how the music industry does or doesn't work, thank you very much. I am only too aware of how it functions.

Also, we didn't get 'burned', we went under because basically this kind of music can't support itself anymore in sales terms - to be perfectly honest. Sure there are things that could probably have been done to PROLONG our existence, but our days were numbered from the moment we opened our doors imo.

[JamieBall]

Also,

I've just been onto worldpay and spent the last couple of hours routing refunds to anyone who's yet to recieve their mail orders.

So, basically, ain't nobody been ripped off on this front. Thankfully worldpay don't pay us until they've had the cash for 2 months (??) so it's sits holding there until they transfer it to us. Looks like refunds can be done on any transaction within that period.

If anyone has any gripes pm me and I'll try to refund you but to be honest I've done all the transactions I can see so just give it 3-4 days for the money to show back on your card.

Peace

JB

[alsynthe]

cheers much appreciated man

[JamieBall]

No probs...

As all these complaints are routed to my email address it's sensible for me to try and put an end to it all !

Didn't realise it was going to end like THIS, I'd have preferred if people just got their records... Oh well...

However, at least I'm not going to be up in the pillory for any shady doings people might have tried to attribute to - er - the ONLY member of the company that is currently available to talk to !

JB

[Jay Pace]

Different direction ? WHERE ? In your book, maybe...

Theres loads of good minimal stuff coming out. I never struggle to find decent new releases, but then I don't confine myself to looking for one specific sound.

Additionally Vogel's album was outstanding. Speedy J's is getting rave reviews, and Hawtin's is awesome. The djs I see playing out don't seem to be struggling from a lack of good tunes.

In the ten years I have been buying records I can never remember a time when there wasn't loads of shite about.

All subjective, like you say.

[alsynthe]

yea u are the only person who has actually bothered to contact me, just received refund confirmation email

cheers for sorting it out man

[JamieBall]

Ah, now I begin to see where you're coming from.....

"There's loads of good minimal stuff coming out"

Yeah.

AND ?

I remember when 'I'm losing control' first came out. There was loads of good minimal stuff then, too.

Isn't this just a current trend ? I think so. And it is, frankly, a trend that is NOT really taking off in the UK.

Also, artists like Vogel/Hawtin etc have seen sales of their stuff cut to pieces of late. I don't think you're making the link I've alluded to between quality music and sales, to be honest.

If something is AMAZING, how will it become the benchmark if no-one outside of a small group of people have heard of it. It can't. End of story. It's all well and good sitting in a coffee shop in Berlin chatting about existentialism and how nice it is to be on the vanguard of minimalism but this is NOT going to sell more records, no matter how warm and superior it may make you feel inside.

I am making the point that it's all well and good for afficionados of certain sounds to get the new/cool stuff, this is always going to happen - but where on EARTH do first time buyers start ??

Also, I'd say that a LOT of the minimal stuff around these days pales in comparison to the early works of DBX, PWOG, Robert Hood etc. It's just MORE OF THE SAME. A lot of it is also very obviously influenced by Akufen, someone who did (for a while) do something different with the minimal style.

Kind of like Autechre. For a group who have strived so hard for an individual sound it must worry them that so many people now strive to sound exactly the same. Who ORIGINATED the sound, though ? THAT is who people will remember and thus Autechre will always be the masters.

I'm quite sad to see the emphasis being taken off 'hard' techno now that 'minimal' techno is in the pages of mixmag. It makes me feel many people have 'gone minimal' because the hard techno scene is basically boring them and they feel creatively stifled within it. This is BULLSHÃ*T. Techno is Hip-Hop as far as I'm concerned, you should be able to do WHATEVER THE FúCK YOU WANT with it.

If you are in the techno scene and feel limited creatively it's merely because your CREATIVITY is LIMITED.

Scenes ? Styles ? I've said it before I don't care for such classifications. It's ALL music at the end of the day.

[JamieBall]

yea u are the only person who has actually bothered to contact me, just received refund confirmation email

cheers for sorting it out man

Nice one, pleased to hear it !

I'm not down with the way this has gone, hence I'm the one still trying to sort people out.

Still can't get an answer from the office, who knows what goes on ???

Last thing they told me some mail had gone out and some was going to be done asap. Don't look likely now, though, hence trying to sort people out who have the potential to get burned.

FRIENDS of mine spending like £100 and the others in the company don't really seem too arsed, I guess as it only impacts badly on me. I'm a little bit disappointed in this, but at the end of the day - IF YOU WANT SOMETHING DONE PROPERLY...

[Jay Pace]

Cool your boots

[TechMouse]

I blame Schranz. :rambo:

[JamieBall]

Dude, I ain't even started warming up, yet !

Don't tell me to chill just cause you don't like my response, I seriously didn't mean to cause offence...

NO malice intended in it, it's just the way myself and a great many others see things - to be perfectly honest IT'S THE WAY THINGS ARE.

You give your opinion - I give you reality in return.

Apologies if it's not the reality you were after, but reality it is nonetheless.

[JamieBall]

I BLAME THE TURTLES

(tenuous back to the planet reference)

[detfella]

good luck with your future projects, strange becuase we were about to set up an account with just music this week :/

[Jay Pace]

You give your opinion - I give you reality in return.

Apologies if it's not the reality you were after, but reality it is nonetheless.

Ach, get over yourself.

I'm not apologising for liking a lot of stuff thats coming out at the moment.

Vinyl sales are plummeting everywhere, and its probably no suprise you got caught out as well.

And lastly - and its been said before - this weekend thousands of kids will go out for the first time and listen to techno djs. They will love it, and will go home wide eyed with excitement about the new world they have just discovered.

And you what? They won't give a flying fuk if a minimal tune that blew them away was done better by Robert Hood in the early 90s.

Your view of techno isn't the one shared by the thousands who are going out every week. And to be honest, I care more about what they think. They are the future. Its just too bad they prefer downloading to buying plastic.

If you think everything is going down the pan - hey its your reality.

So deal with it.

[Jay Pace]

*disclaimer*

Sorry, that was rude.

I just don't like reading so much negativity. There's too much to love about the scene, and too much to be excited about.

I'm sorry if you no longer feel that way.

[detfella]

correction: vinyl sales are not plummating everywhere, in fact, rock singles sell more on vinyl than they do on cds.

there are other genres like bassline house and grime that are selling by the bucketload.

yeah people might be going to techno nights and having a wicked time, but people dont need to buy the vinyls anymore, i stopped buying the vast quantites of techno vinyl because it serves no function. i dont dj out and i will rarely sit down and think, oooh, i'd love to listen to that solid kick drum for 6 mins. there are some exceptions tho...people like vogel, speedy j, have been incorporating electronica sounds into their techno, which i find much more musically pleasing, so i will still continue to listen to these, but then i'd prefer them as cds.

say you have a techno 12 that sold 2000 copies, i wonder how many of those sold are to djs that regurlarly play out. the top 100 djs get mailed all the latest vinyls anyway. there was a time that people thought they might be the next big dj, then it shifted to "you have to have a track released before you are considered" so it seems the trend has shifted again and ultimately polluted the scene with lots of labels and half baked/copied techno.

i think the future of music is retrograding to the past times and is going to become free to all. i get to hear lots of new music thru forums and net labels, why pay when there is interesting music available for free?

[JamieBall]

Ach, get over yourself.

> ummm.....

I'm not apologising for liking a lot of stuff thats coming out at the moment.

> Didn't ask you to. Do what you want.

Vinyl sales are plummeting everywhere, and its probably no suprise you got caught out as well.

> Indeed, Sherlock

And lastly - and its been said before - this weekend thousands of kids will go out for the first time and listen to techno djs. They will love it, and will go home wide eyed with excitement about the new world they have just discovered.

> This is not untrue

And you what? They won't give a flying fuk if a minimal tune that blew them away was done better by Robert Hood in the early 90s.

> Again true. They have no previous point of reference. This links in to my point about such artists not selling so well nowadays.

Your view of techno isn't the one shared by the thousands who are going out every week. And to be honest, I care more about what they think. They are the future. Its just too bad they prefer downloading to buying plastic.

> I don't care if other people don't share my view. You've got entirely the wrong impression of my 'view' anyway. Also, I don't mind at all if people download music as long as the artist gets paid for it (if they don't WANT paid that's something different). Vinyl/Cd/Mp3 it doesn't really bother me. I play out always on pc either live sets or virtual dj sets so how can I expect others to stick to buying vinyl. Also although I don't fully agree with all they stand for, things like Soulseek do definitely help get your music to places where realistically it would not normally go. I love the internet for this feature. Anyone can tap into anything from anywhere.

If you think everything is going down the pan - hey its your reality.

> I don't. You misunderstand me. Completely.

So deal with it.

> ummmm....... Quite argumentative aren't we ??? All I did to begin with was explain pretty much why I thought our company is not doing so good, which I reckon I'm more than entitled to do being as it's been the subject of much speculation on here of late. It's up to you if you want to start talking like everything that's coming out is amazing after I've said I'm not particularly impressed with a lot of music of late. Great. I'm happy for you. Glad you've found something you like. All I'm just saying that this 'amazing' music does NOT translate into 'amazing' sales, plain and simple, and that it is essentially nothing new or groundbreaking. Like most techno.

I'm not saying there isn't stuff out there that UTTERLY rocks, I just think it is far less visible than the mediocre gear simply because there is less of it around. People will usually buy the records that are available to them, this has changed of late thanks to the internet but in the past basically your taste was often controlled by what shops would buy in - and this is usually your middle of the road stuff that is sure to sell, as you've said already.

Anyways......

[Louk]

mate that is bad news this is happening everywhere at the moment :(

Louk

[Jay Pace]

You misunderstand me. Completely.

Fine, all well and good then. I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.

Anyways, like I said best of luck with whatever you move on to.

;)

[SlavikSvensk]

i think either all the current business models are broke, or the industry is in the midst of a really brutal correction. or both. i'd have more money than i do if i knew the solution. whatever the case, sorry this happened and good luck to you.

[Sunil]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.



:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

[Ritzi Lee]

And again the labels are FU-CKED!!

[Sunil]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.



:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

By the way, if I was insulting there, apologies. "Patronising" and "Conceited" are a bit over the top though. I thought he was pretty bang on in many ways.

Also, if the minimal craze, Speedy J having a good album with Liebing, other *decent* records and Vogel's album adds up to a good year, then good for you, that's all I can say ;)

[RDR]

i think either all the current business models are broke, or the industry is in the midst of a really brutal correction. or both. i'd have more money than i do if i knew the solution. whatever the case, sorry this happened and good luck to you.

thats the most sense anyone has said here.

Change exists within business and associated models. im not an expert on the industry (dont misunderstand me - i said expert, not ill informed) and more oftne than not businesses go under due to either changing economic climate or poor business management.

Music changes - business who dont get swept away.

Im truly sorry to hear about just music going under, another precious resource gone. hope you find work soon dude.

[Martin Dust]

Sorry to hear the news Jamie...

[massplanck]

:( Lots of good labels on just. Fix/Dotcom/Drought etc blah blah blah.

Things change. But this feels a bit like having your arsehole ripped apart as opposed to just change.

[Jay Pace]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.



:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

By the way, if I was insulting there, apologies. "Patronising" and "Conceited" are a bit over the top though. I thought he was pretty bang on in many ways.

Also, if the minimal craze, Speedy J having a good album with Liebing, other *decent* records and Vogel's album adds up to a good year, then good for you, that's all I can say ;)

I guess I have low expectations. ;)

100 decent singles, half a dozen decent albums, I'd call that a good year.
But I can understand that its probably not a particularly profitable one for others.

[crime]

100 decent singles, half a dozen decent albums, I'd call that a good year.

1995:
Advent-elements of life LP, Internal 12s
Cristian Vogel-Absolute time LP, Conscious arrays, Defunkt,
Joey Beltram-Places LP,
Neil Landstrumm-Brown By August LP
Surgeon - manganese, electronically tested, pet 2000
Planetary assault systems - archives LP
djax up beats kicking it out
Disco B kicking it out
Force Inc kicking it out
and much more in 95 that I can't even remember right now..

you trying to tell me that this year (2005) had as many classics as 1995? 1996? 1997?

Ok, maybe some of us were lucky enough to be into this scene in this time, maybe we have a different perspective because we were younger and more naive in this time.. maybe it's because the scene itself was younger and more naive, and a lot of ground hadn't been covered that has today..
either way, techno isn't as fresh sounding as it was 10 years ago (although I suspect this can also depend on veiwpoit, age experiences etc)

as far as I'm concerned 95-96 was the peak of real quality techno, and also was a time where having a good selling record would earn you a good bit of money.

these days a lot of people are starting labels, and as I've said before, where you used to have maybe 100 or 200 (as an example) labels, and now you have probably easily in excess of 1000 techno labels.

ten times the amount of labels selling a tenth of what a label would sell ten years ago (if that)

with a decline in interest in techno (maybe because so much shite gets released, maybe because the time is past), are you suprised at the situation? so many records I hear sound the same as the next record, djs love them "because they fit well in my set".. a lot of people started labels and put out numerous records in quick succesion because they thought x amount of records = x amount of gigs, doesn't work like that. I've seen people put out albums this year, pure tosh, which was purely career motivated, and not about putting together a real quality product..

this is why we're in this situation.. distributors thought more titles=more sales but unless you have the quality control, all those records in the warehouse are going to come crashing down on top of you...

basically techno seems to be full of DJs, artists, Promotors etc and not many consumers/party goers.. the whole thing has become top heavy... fair enough if you want to make music, but it ain't going to buy you a jag, and it's probably going to cost you a lot of money...

as far as I'm concerned techno's been dying since 97, and this isn't neccesarily a bad thing, because as it goes back underground, only the true people stick with it... hopefully something new will emerge in the end, not techno but some kind of fusion of things... maybe this is what Grime is now.. maybe because we're not 17 year old kids in hackney we don't see it the same way... look at the way Dizzee and ms dynamite broke thru into the mainstream in the same way that underworld, leftfield, and the prodigy did 10 years ago.. you used to have Voodoo on late night TV, big coverage of techno in the music press

techno has become exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to be... the tradjedy is, as the style became defined it was inevitable that it would become the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be about i.e. INNOVATION... and this is the thing, when something falls out of the 4/4 kick to most people it's not techno any more..

I mean this discussion can go round and round, yes it's sad when businesses fall apart, yes it's sad when people lose money, it's very facile to blame mp3s, I mean for christ sake what about tapes in the past? how often do you actually see a dj playing mp3s?

I can't speak for the US, but in europe the only people I see playing with final scratch or whatever is in the MINIMAL scene, the scene that supposedly sells MORE records.. when I'm at a techno party, i see people playing RECORDS, and I'm out all over germany and other places in europe every weekend, I go to a lot of different places all over the continent and further...

and in the US, none of the US distributors want to pick up techno for fear of poor sales so of course it's going to be more mp3 orientated.. same with brasil where the import tax is so high, but I meet people in poland who spend the equivilent to them of like £50 for EACH record, and are buying all the old shite off e-bay..

the best thing you can do is not to get into bad business situations and cover your arse at all times, I've been burned loads of times in this game, you just got to brush it off and carry on... (and Jamie, this isn't any kind of dig at you, you know we're down man ;) )

and as far as "is techno alive" or "is techno dead" (yawn) why not just get on, write music you like, try not to think about the money side too much (Apart from using your head) and ENJOY IT... we ain't living in 1995 anymore... but there is still enjoyment to get out of the whole thing...


And by the way, if you want a good look at the way things have changed in the past ten years, Neil landstrumm's archive on the scandinavia site is a really good read, check it out here: http://www.scandinavianyc.com/nickedidea.html check out particuarly the press cuttings....

[FUSION]

dam straight hit the nail right on the head there mark :clap: :clap:

[SlavikSvensk]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

[RDR]

Techno was best in the days of Musqiue Concrete, we are all just copy cats...

PS - love the musical skin you are in.

[MangaFish]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

totally. i'm not overly fond of a lot of the so called 'classics', but then i am a new comer to techno so the world i know has only existed for the last 2 or 3 years.

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

[RDR]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

totally. i'm not overly fond of a lot of the so called 'classics', but then i am a new comer to techno so the world i know has only existed for the last 2 or 3 years.

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

Becasue you cant go back if you want music to remain intersting... like i always say, the ONLY truth in music is evolution - change IS what we need and desire. Techno music only made it big because it WAS a change. It cannot be a change forever. Tommorow is where we mjust look, not a t yesterday, unless we look there for reference, rather than comfort.

[MangaFish]

I'm not saying completely U-turn, but take lessons from the oldskool.

For example:
Someone on here was saying how there isnt much song style techno these days - well theres no reason why people cant write that sort of stuff.

[SlavikSvensk]

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

this will happen. it is already happening. but it's not the answer, IMO. i can only speak for myself, but i imagine many others who feel like me aren't lamenting that techno has moved away stylistically, but that it's lost some of its naive exuberance, it's experimental qualities, its soul.

so if people are happy with techno as is, then there's no prob for them. if people are not, we need to do something about it. just music tried, and it didn't work out. i applaud that and hope there are good things on the horizon for them and for people who feel the same way about techno.

i just don't see the point of arguing further along the lines of:

"it was better before"
"no it wasn't"
"yes it was"
"no it wasn't

[massplanck]

about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

kill the software. kill it

[MangaFish]

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

this will happen. it is already happening. but it's not the answer, IMO. i can only speak for myself, but i imagine many others who feel like me aren't lamenting that techno has moved away stylistically, but that it's lost some of its naive exuberance, it's experimental qualities, its soul.

so if people are happy with techno as is, then there's no prob for them. if people are not, we need to do something about it. just music tried, and it didn't work out. i applaud that and hope there are good things on the horizon for them and for people who feel the same way about techno.

i just don't see the point of arguing further along the lines of:

"it was better before"
"no it wasn't"
"yes it was"
"no it wasn't

So what you are basically saying is you miss your outlook on techno?

Obviously i'm not having a dig at you (or anyone else specifically), but when people say "techno used to be better" i oftern wonder how many of them actually thought techno music was better and how many of them just miss their honeymoon period with techno. Two very different issue imo.

Sorry if this has already been said - i didnt fancy reading 2 pages to get up to speed on the debate :oops: :dontevengothere:

[SlavikSvensk]

So what you are basically saying is you miss your outlook on techno?

Obviously i'm not having a dig at you (or anyone else specifically), but when people say "techno used to be better" i oftern wonder how many of them actually thought techno music was better and how many of them just miss their honeymoon period with techno. Two very different issue imo.

Sorry if this has already been said - i didnt fancy reading 2 pages to get up to speed on the debate :oops: :dontevengothere:

this is exactly the kind of thing i was trying to end on this thread. i used to love to get into it, now i just find it self-defeating. why insist everyone share one's one views?

look, i miss the way techno used to feel...TO ME. that's my opinion and my right. i am in no way forcing you to see the world my way, but if you ask me 100 times, you will get 100 answers that say " i think techno used to be better than it is today."

:)

[SlavikSvensk]

for the record, though, i DO think there are quality releases nowadays. anything by secret cinema for a start!

[MARKEG]

just my opinion - some great comments here guys.. please try to keep this from descending into thepointless shit!!! there's some real nice leasons to be learnt here!

[MARKEG]

ps real sorry to hear this j.

really bad news :(

[V..]

I`m very sorry to hear that Just have gone down, this is really bad, and another blow to the scene in the UK.
Eukatech in london has also gone.

Meanwhile the latest Dave the Drummer wannabe releases another pointless record on another pointless label that they have started because no one would release their stuff.
When will this end?
There will be one label per "producer" one day, and all of them releasing virtually the same tune.

I think both the business and the music needs to change and develope to keep itself alive.
Distributers shoulder some of the blame, when saying "yes" to another piece of cloned tat, they could retain some kind of quality control and say "no".

There is no easy solution to the current problems, but I think part of the solution is to wake up and smell the coffee.

[tocsin]

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

Kill all rock stars.

[SlavikSvensk]

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

Kill all rock stars.

yarg...maybe i was misunderstood. i meant there's no point arguing over whether or not techno is great now or was better 10 years ago...AGAIN. those who have opinions one way or the other (me included) probably won't change them because someone argued with them on a forum, and both are valid opinions based on personal taste and experience.

this thread should be about just music's troubles.

[djshiva]

there was a time that people thought they might be the next big dj, then it shifted to "you have to have a track released before you are considered" so it seems the trend has shifted again and ultimately polluted the scene with lots of labels and half baked/copied techno.


bingo.

what i have been saying for years is that the industry standard "you have to have records out to get booked", resulted in a lot of shite techno on wax.

frankly, that's why it took me so long to start producing. i have been DJing for 10 years, but i didn't want to go out and just throw down some disposable crap. hell, maybe i do anyway in some people's eyes, but i waited until i felt i could say something with what i made. at the end of the day, it means something to me anyhow...

[eyeswithoutaface]

I`m very sorry to hear that Just have gone down, this is really bad, and another blow to the scene in the UK.
Eukatech in london has also gone.

Meanwhile the latest Dave the Drummer wannabe releases another pointless record on another pointless label that they have started because no one would release their stuff.
When will this end?
There will be one label per "producer" one day, and all of them releasing virtually the same tune.

I think both the business and the music needs to change and develope to keep itself alive.
Distributers shoulder some of the blame, when saying "yes" to another piece of cloned tat, they could retain some kind of quality control and say "no".

There is no easy solution to the current problems, but I think part of the solution is to wake up and smell the coffee.

the middle paragraph is hitting the nail on the head there imo ... i was having this conversation with someone the other day, i hate the way people feel the need to start 2, 3 labels for the same bunch of their mates to release on, it just leads to the same tracks being regurgitated over and over and spread across 2, 3, 4 labels that could EASILY be condensed down to 1 when you release that the labels may have different ethos, at least in the blog that comes with them, but really they are putting out exactly the same stuff on each label, thus saturating the market with more clones and moaning when all their labels end up going down because they didnt have the hindsight to just concentrate on 1 and see where it goes instead of trying to run before they can walk!

it really is not that hard at all to get your music onto other peoples label's these days, the whole point here being there is too many anyway hence half the problems that are occuring.

re the having to release to get gigs thing, yeah it works for some, but its bull for others, i know plenty of Djs who are top class but dont have a clue about production nor are they that interested and are doing very well for themselves regardless

this is one of the only topics thats interested me on here in a long time, and although it was born out of bad circumstances definately need more topics like this

[Jay Pace]

Same problem is happening everywhere in media: Clutter and Fragmentation.

Basically too much being touted across too many channels to not enough people. There are the same problems in TV, Press & the internet. Its just an indication of a mature market, and a natural consequence of the switch to digital.

What this means is that you are usually left with a handful of big brands, and thousands of niche brands. In Techno its the same - a handful of credible labels and countless smaller ones.

I've always really enjoyed digging - I think thats part of what djing is about - sifting through reams of shite to find the little nuggest of gold that others may have overlooked. I'm also really glad that loads of people are producing and get their stuff out. It prevents elitism, and ultimately paves the way to innovation. New artists are responsible for breaking new ground. Sure, they may start by copying their idols - but who hasn't? Its how you learn. No one starts a career at the top of their game. Few people are distinctive from the outset, it usually takes time for people to establish their sound.

At the moment there are plenty of people sticking to the tried and tested. Computer technology has made production a possiblity for almost everyone, rather than a chosen few, and their are a lot of new artists who need to mature. But I think thats what makes the djs contribution so much more valuable - they can present their own sound rather than run through a techno top 10.

In drum & bass you used to have nights when every headliner would turn up with the same records as everyone else. Everyone had the same "big tunes". Quality tunes, but to be honest it got really boring listening to them.

I'm optimistic about the future.

[Louk]

Eukatech in london has also gone.



WHAT?!?! no way - I only bought a new eukatech a few months ago - the 10" one... jin mull i thikn it was called.

Louk

[JamieBall]

Cheers for everyone's views so far and for the various messages of condolence...

Much appreciated !

Also, as ever, some interesting points being raised.

JB

[fresh_an_funky_design]

yeah man sorry its not worked for you! must be really crap when something you've put a lot of time, money and effort into ****s up

[MangaFish]

So what you are basically saying is you miss your outlook on techno?

Obviously i'm not having a dig at you (or anyone else specifically), but when people say "techno used to be better" i oftern wonder how many of them actually thought techno music was better and how many of them just miss their honeymoon period with techno. Two very different issue imo.

Sorry if this has already been said - i didnt fancy reading 2 pages to get up to speed on the debate :oops: :dontevengothere:

this is exactly the kind of thing i was trying to end on this thread. i used to love to get into it, now i just find it self-defeating. why insist everyone share one's one views?

look, i miss the way techno used to feel...TO ME. that's my opinion and my right. i am in no way forcing you to see the world my way, but if you ask me 100 times, you will get 100 answers that say " i think techno used to be better than it is today."

:)
i'm not trying to imply that we should all agree to disagree. I hate that policy. Its more damaging than good imo. I was mearly saying that if people dont like the way how techno sounds, then they should get off their arses and change it to a sound they do like. techno's all about innovation so why just sit back and complain and you could be out there creating the next big techno sound?

[SlavikSvensk]

I was mearly saying that if people dont like the way how techno sounds, then they should get off their arses and change it to a sound they do like. techno's all about innovation so why just sit back and complain and you could be out there creating the next big techno sound?

i totally agree, so maybe we were arguing about nothing... :oops:

[MangaFish]

I was mearly saying that if people dont like the way how techno sounds, then they should get off their arses and change it to a sound they do like. techno's all about innovation so why just sit back and complain and you could be out there creating the next big techno sound?

i totally agree, so maybe we were arguing about nothing... :oops:

I've always said you are a very smart guy ;) :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

I was mearly saying that if people dont like the way how techno sounds, then they should get off their arses and change it to a sound they do like. techno's all about innovation so why just sit back and complain and you could be out there creating the next big techno sound?

i totally agree, so maybe we were arguing about nothing... :oops:

I've always said you are a very smart guy ;) :lol:

:clap:

[V..]

Everybody show some love :love: :love: :love:

that was truly a touching moment.
:lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

Everybody show some love :love: :love: :love:

that was truly a touching moment.
:lol:

in the immortal words of rodney king, can't we all just get along? :!: