From our hearts to our hard drives...

[djshiva]

...or something like that.

anyhow, pulled from another discussion...

there is a lot of talk about loopy, disposable techno. but not a lot of talk about what drives our music, or more specifically, when you have an idea, inspiration, whatever...how do you translate it from your head/heart to the gear/software/instrument?

do you use sounds to represent feelings? song structure to emphasize a space in time? editing to represent movement?

do you use outside sources? album art, info sheets, song titles...to further emphasize your ideas?

keep in mind this can also apply to djing, as i have for years been very specific with djs sets according to what i was trying to express. composition, mixing style, eqing, can all be used to emphasize feeling...
so djs are not expempt from this discussion either...

let's hear it!

[djshiva]

addendum:

here is some great writing speaking of the possibilities of djing to impart a political message...

codebreaking: http://music.hyperreal.org/d.part/31-cb.htm

message spin: http://music.hyperreal.org/d.part/32-ms.htm

[g]

maybe i'll post more about this later (when i'm not about walk out the door) but the first thing that comes to mind is the #1 comment i heard about the mix i posted last month was "emotional". hmm.

[Komplex]

Musics a reflection of a point in time for me and as always what I do and try to achieve varies with each project. Most of it comes down to what I'm feeling at the time. If I'm in the mood for loopy and hypnotic, thats what comes out. Likewise for melodic, or just mashed up evil shit or stupid noises or ambient music.

What kills it for me isn't the fact that music is loopy or anything like that, its people doing the same thing everytime and all the time to the point that it makes you sick.

When your personality, feelings and ideas translate into your music, thats when you've created something worthwhile.

As for translating whats inside you onto gear, thats just something that happens automaticaly in due time. When ur comfortable with your gear/instruments/software it'll just flow. When u pick up a guitar or sit down at a piano for the first time ever, there is no way that you can play it properly and sound good. When u learn your instrument over time you can play it without thinking. The studio/computers/machines are the techno musician's instrument.

[The Overfiend]

Totally Shiva
to me being ethnic I feel percussion comes from Ancestry and feel a spiritual connection to it.
Synth work or bass lines and sounds are a direct extension of that.
Notes in minors and majors. moods

[The Divide]

Musics a reflection of a point in time for me and as always what I do and try to achieve varies with each project. Most of it comes down to what I'm feeling at the time. If I'm in the mood for loopy and hypnotic, thats what comes out. Likewise for melodic, or just mashed up evil shit or stupid noises or ambient music.

What kills it for me isn't the fact that music is loopy or anything like that, its people doing the same thing everytime and all the time to the point that it makes you sick.

When your personality, feelings and ideas translate into your music, thats when you've created something worthwhile.


This the exact same point I keep making, S'all about personal expression and message communication on a non lyrical level :clap:

[stjohn]

maybe i'll post more about this later (when i'm not about walk out the door) but the first thing that comes to mind is the #1 comment i heard about the mix i posted last month was "emotional". hmm.

ye....i was driving a longish journey and I listened to the mix from start to finish, and thought the progression of tunage was spot on. ;)

back on topic, i think i would try for the same soundscape, no matter what equipment or setup i'd use. Obviously each would have their distinguishable sound, but once the notion or your individual insight on life/music/love/etc... is there, the right sounds will come.

Sometimes its too easy to get caught in a loopy looper, but avoiding that, and devleoping the tune to suit your emotions, is something that will come in time (i hope) :shock: .

[SlavikSvensk]

if you don't have your heart invested in a piece, it will be forgettable. maybe that's too much of an absolute, but i think it's true at least most of the time.

i like to draw on my own experience, but also things i've seen and heard. buildings, nature, loneliness, politics...these are all fertile territory. but too much techno, IMO, is based on specific cliches.

[djshiva]

i just got back frmo my girlfriend's house, where we watched the movie "garden state". dunno what's gonna come from that, but i know something is going to. i will have to sit down and process this one with music. :)

[djshiva]

btw, thanks to everyone who joined in this little discussion.

much as i can sit and geek on hardware/software nerdiness, THIS is the stuff that piques my interest on a gut level.

i dunno if painters sit around and talk about mohair brushes and what color cobalt blue works best, but you can be damn sure that's not the part that interests those seeing a masterpiece for the first time. i think sometimes techno people get so involved in the mechanics of it, that we forget the art.

just a thought...

[new]

ok, take what I say with a grain of salt cause I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing as a producer, like what kind of music I'm going to make and how I'm really going to do it, all that important stuff, but ...

I usually have a little image that I'll dream up, and make the sounds that would go around that image. For instance, I had this picture in my head of these little weird aliens that would come in your sleep and break into your house and steal stuff, inconcequential stuff, but theift none the less. So I wrote a track around that idea.

Course, sometimes you just write a track to see if you can.

[djshiva]

oh c'mon...surely we are not that boring?

i can throw in some prattle about subtractive synthesis or something if that'll jog some response... ;)

[JamieBall]

What kills it for me isn't the fact that music is loopy or anything like that, its people doing the same thing everytime and all the time to the point that it makes you sick.

Good point....

I'll no doubt have more to say about this in a while but to start off -

I recall some people giving shit to Si Begg when he released his 'directors cut' album as a result of it being too diverse and un-'uniform'. This was BULLSHIT !!! It's a great album (not all my cup of tea but I can appreciate it) and stuff like this should be applauded...

If someone sets out to make an ALBUM that is a representation of themselves and all they stand for, isn't it woeful if they can only drop like 8 hard techno tunes or something ???

WHO WANTS AN >ALBUM< LIKE THIS !?!? Oooh, the diversity...

This for me is the difference between a double 12" and an actual ALBUM. An album should be more of a mission statement....

In the past I think there were more good techno albums, Saunderson's 'E dancer' and Mills 'waveforms 3' spring to mind and these are very diverse in terms of composition/sounds/diversity etc (within their frameworks). The tracks SOUND different, I could name each of 'em and remember them the same way as I remember each individual track on 'band' records.

A lot of 'techno' albums now sound like the same track x 8.

However, that's not to say there's not some utterly refreshing stuff making its way through...

[Jay Pace]

I spent ages on the current tune I'm working on, trying to make it "me"

All to often I throw some things together, find that they work and then build a tune around it. By the end of it you hate it, because you never really tried to make it.

Spent ages this time rejecting ideas that I wasn't that into and refining ideas I thought had merit, rather than just settling for something that worked.

Much more satisfying that way. I like making tracks that are the sum of my influences and my mood as I make it.

[JamieBall]

Yup, this 'creativity' business is a minefield and no mistake :rambo:

Good to hear you're taking time to hone your sound, on the other hand sometimes those brief flashes of random inspiration can sometimes yield results...

This debate points to the main reason I like techno - it's entirely open to interpretation and experimentation !

Hooray ! :twisted:

[SlavikSvensk]

more producers should:

a) listen to old techno as well as new releases
b) listen to other forms of music: classical, jazz, ethnic, whatever
c) look at art, architecture, read more, consume other art forms
d) think hard about what in life affects them and what has affected them, and try to capture that in music


all these things would naturally, IMO, lead to greater diversity in what producers bring to techno.

[The Divide]

Well said Mang

[JamieBall]

more producers should:

a) listen to old techno as well as new releases
b) listen to other forms of music: classical, jazz, ethnic, whatever
c) look at art, architecture, read more, consume other art forms
d) think hard about what in life affects them and what has affected them, and try to capture that in music


all these things would naturally, IMO, lead to greater diversity in what producers bring to techno.

You could apply that to ALL artists, that's what 'artistry' is about, I reckon. Drawing emotions/feelings from surroundings/experiences etc and transforming them into creative energy, then making something NEW from all of this.

That's what I was saying earlier. Maybe it's completely wanky in a way but I think some people sit down thinking they are doing 'tracks' while others try to do 'art'. 'tracks' are easier to do than 'art' as they are defined by pre-set parameters (or something). Kind of the same as painting a sign is easier than painting a masterpiece.

I'm not saying one method of composition is better than another, however, don't get me twisted. I'd much rather pay a pittance to have a COPY of a Picasso than save up my entire life for the real thing :lol: Also, you can go to the Tate Modern and see a LOT of shite 'art', so clearly not all endeavours lead to a bullseye on the creative front.

There's a lot of subjectivity involved in everones impression of art, of course, but I reckon if something fails its purpose then it doesn't matter how artistically rich or empty it is. If techno doesn't make you want to dance then it's without a point. Techno for me is meant for the dancefloor.

Also, peoples... It's not just about 'artistry' of course !

a) listen to old techno as well as new releases
b) listen to other forms of music: classical, jazz, ethnic, whatever
c) look at art, architecture, read more, consume other art forms
d) think hard about what in life affects them and what has affected them..

These rules are very nice for 'real' life, too. :lol:

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah that's about right...

...but how much techno that you hear today seems to consciously draw on ideas like you find in "guernica," the music of steve reich, or, hell, even the profoundly baffling nuances of personal relationships? a few guys out there, certainly, just not enough.

too many tracks, too few songs.

[g]

...even the profoundly baffling nuances of personal relationships?
hahah... too true!


too many tracks, too few songs.
amen brother.

[The Overfiend]

too many tracks, too few songs.
amen brother.[/quote]

Word Up.

[Mindful]

i just got back frmo my girlfriend's house, where we watched the movie "garden state". dunno what's gonna come from that, but i know something is going to. i will have to sit down and process this one with music. :)


This rings true with me shiva,If I watch a GOOD film I will get so many ideas and feelings from it wich will end up triggering me to convay that in to a piece of music.
It sends my gf mad the way I sit there and cant just watch a film without saying every 10 mins "what a great name for a tune and running off to right it down or being inspired by the mood of a scene or by a moment of music or atmosphere ,even a centance can spark an idea.

This kind of connects to what slavs piont in that you should be pulling and getting that spark from much more than just the last techno track you realy liked.

Alltho that can work for me too ,If I listen to a good set I feel the need to sit down and get what I got from listening to that set in to my own take on it.(hope that makes sense)
For instance I had a listen to the Luka Bauman Rods Konez set and had to spend the night getting it all out in to an idea of my own ,I didnt even finish the peice of music I just needed to get an idea down and get it out of my system.

[djshiva]

yeah that's about right...

...but how much techno that you hear today seems to consciously draw on ideas like you find in "guernica," the music of steve reich, or, hell, even the profoundly baffling nuances of personal relationships? a few guys out there, certainly, just not enough.

too many tracks, too few songs.

ahhh...guernica...good one...

i think some of the issues i have with "techno people" (love them all as i do), is that many times we get bogged down in the technicalities of it all. gear, software, and technique...or we get all into just talking about the latest tunes...rather than having discussions like this.

and yes, of course, there is a "music industry" that has rather cookie cutter ideas of what sells, what should sell and so on. and to an extent, at least with underground techno, there is some validity to asking whether it will sell. if you are a shop, a label or a distro, you can lose your ass if it doesn't. and while i am a fan of sacrificing for your art, i do NOT think you should have to starve.

conundrum ain't it?

for me, i have many different things i experiment with: techno, hip hop, trip hoppy type stuff, the occasional forway into weirdness... but what i love the most is some good, driving, aggressive techno that will knock the heads back when heard on large soundsystems. i like to make things that i can then play as a dj, because (after doing it for 10 years) i feel that i can express myself sometimes BETTER in that medium. i love performing, and i love audience/performer connection...and i love big farkin loud speakers...

is it art? i dunno...but i put my heart into it, and we'll see what happens from there, i guess... :)

another point that a friend and i have been talking about. sometimes we shut ourselves in studios and isolate ourselves from the outside world to make this music. and in the end, the music should be a personal expression, but it should also resonate on a level with others. think of the best music you have ever heard...did it not strike a chord with you? were you analyzing the structure or the gear used, or were you closing your eyes, feeling it hit you in the chest and feeling the goosebumps rise on your skin?

now granted, things resonate like that not because an artist consciously makes music for other people, but because they hit on feelings and emotions that are very deeply rooted in our human emotional tableau. so if we are not grounded in those thoughts and feelings, the music really can become an empty imitation of feeling...nothing more than beats strung together to rock a dancefloor (and quite frankly, that's not horrible, just kinda disposable).

i am not trying to diss anyone's efforts, but i think it's always good to reassess what you are putting out there and why.

okee...end ramble. need caffeine.

[Mindful]

Thats a great "ramble"shiva.
Have you got any links to some of yoour music perhaps?

I would love to check some of your stuff now I know your heart and mind are in the right place.

[djshiva]

well, since i am still a baby when it comes to production, i think perhaps my mixsets are the best place to start. :)

there are a ton of em (ok, mybe not a ton...) on my website. i specifically recommend "scenes from dystopia" and "entelechy", as those were studio mixes that i spent a lot of time composing. "dystopia" especially has a running concept throughout, so i am really fond of that one. the live stuff is a bit more off-the-cuff, which i also love.

i will PM some links to tunes as well...

[holotropik]

originally i used to write songs on my guitar when the urge grabbed me. This was generally to do with girls as I was younger and going through the angst of the social exploration phase of my life.

Later on I left my guitar behind. Eventually I came across newer stuff. Drum-machines, PC software and the possibility of writing a song completely using not just one instrument.

Spiritual pursuits and study combined with my exposure of the Techno sound gave me a new form of expression. From the onset I just wanted to work out how to "play" Techno Live, hands-on like I used to do with my guitar. So I set about working out how to do that.

For the last 5years I have focussed on playing Live from machines in a way that is acceptable and fun and expressive. My inspiration comes from the same place as it did for the guitar. My feelings and head-space at each stage of my life. Now I am older and supposedly wiser I also incorporate other elements about my reality such as my spirituality and beliefs. My developed personalityas such. Techno fits my reality well as it provides a magical foundation to my reality that I call home. It represents a lot about the world that I see and experience. It also keeps me looking ahead rather than behind.

I find that I have developed a natural cycle with my production. I have recently entered my next cycle and am writing completely new stuff. I wandered off into the hills for a while and let my mind clear and replenished my energies from previous works and giggin'. I got my balance again and now I am again expressing what I feel now. My sound has changed accordingly.

I find that I am still learning the language of Techno as it is very different to conventional music. The techniques are varied as is the equipment and the listeners expectations.