Live users: convince us why we should switch!

[SlavikSvensk]

saw a post from another cubase user mulling whether he should upgrade to sx3 or get live. so i figured i'd ask any live users why they think he--and i--should get live instead of upgrading cubase...

anyone?

[mattboyslim]

theres tons of threads sugegsting this. i think most people are missing the point that live is jsut that, a live tool. and although tunes can be produced in live, surely it makes sense to use both togetehr to heed good results. a total swtich will lead to disappointment for many i believe. saying that, i don;t really get on with cubase. logic all the way

[SlavikSvensk]

well, maybe i phrased it wrong. i have cubase, and won't exactly throw it out the window. i do, however, have a choice between paying for the next cubase upgrade or buying live. basically i'd like something where you think about music in a different way. i hate arranging digital audio in cubase, so...

[rounser]

Live has quite comprehensive tutorials. After going through those in the demo you should have a good sense of whether it's for you or not.

[djshiva]

live is frickin fun as hell!

that's my biggest reason for using it. i can't be bothered to sit and draw shit in boxes and navigate tons of menus. bores me to tears.

with live, i can sit and jam aorund and sketch out the basics of a tune before putting it all together. and the putting together part is cake as well.

i suppose some would like more intricate shite in their progs, but live does everything i need it to do.

i don't play live pas either, so i am not an authority on that, but for production it keeps me having fun.

[SlavikSvensk]

live is frickin fun as hell!

that's my biggest reason for using it. i can't be bothered to sit and draw shit in boxes and navigate tons of menus. bores me to tears.

with live, i can sit and jam aorund and sketch out the basics of a tune before putting it all together. and the putting together part is cake as well.

i suppose some would like more intricate shite in their progs, but live does everything i need it to do.

i don't play live pas either, so i am not an authority on that, but for production it keeps me having fun.

g is also a big fan of using live for composition pruposes. i got the demo so i'll play around with it this weekend

[Basil Rush]

I have no idea why you'd want to use live to write it, I can't get my head around it, on the other hand I'm seriously considering selling my turntables now I've got it! God is it amazing at sticking a couple of tracks together and keeping them in sync! Anyone want a 1210? :)

[RDR]

you and sasha mate, you and sasha. ;)

[Basil Rush]

it's just utterly fabulous though, youcan skip to the drop in a track missing out a dodgy section without any effort at all ... you can loop the last bar of a track for 30 minutes while you mix another two in ... it's a dream

[Basil Rush]

how many times is is acceptable to microwave the same coffee in a day ?

[SlavikSvensk]

how many times is is acceptable to microwave the same coffee in a day ?

twice

[FIK]

I used to be a bit uncertain about ableton, didn't trust it as a live-tool. That was untill I actually worked with it. A friend of mine showed it to me about a year ago and I was immediatly hooked to it. It's quite a different program than other sequencers I've worked with in the past and it has definitely pushed my production forward.
Yesterday and the day before I was doing a live-act with a mate. He asked me a few weeks ago if I could help him out cause he was fed up programming his MPC. We had loads of hardware running along my laptop and it all worked perfect. It works so good that my friend is selling his AKAI to get himself a copy of Live 5.

[FILTERZ]

its wicked for live pa`s and for throwing ideas together

i think the midi editing is a pain in the bum compared to cubase so i could not imagine producing a track with it

it is a great live tool though , the nuts in fact ,

[RDR]

live works a treat. dont use it for full 'proper' productions tho...MIDI editing is on a par with pro-tools 5.. i.e shit.

[Basil Rush]

live works a treat. dont use it for full 'proper' productions tho...MIDI editing is on a par with pro-tools 5.. i.e shit.

Protools 7 looks wicked though, got a few more features nicked from Logic on the Midi front I think ... where's me copy :)

[FIK]

live works a treat. dont use it for full 'proper' productions tho...MIDI editing is on a par with pro-tools 5.. i.e shit.

Protools 7 looks wicked though, got a few more features nicked from Logic on the Midi front I think ... where's me copy :)


Mmmm, not to sure about that. Logic will allways outperform protools midi-wise in my opinion. I mean there both mac-only sequencers, why would both firms want to compete with each other over midi. Digidesign knows that their thing is audio recording with the complentary interfaces and controllers. While Logic is more audio/midi minded.

[djshiva]

I have no idea why you'd want to use live to write it, I can't get my head around it, on the other hand I'm seriously considering selling my turntables now I've got it! God is it amazing at sticking a couple of tracks together and keeping them in sync! Anyone want a 1210? :)

different strokes for different folks, i suppose. but what live allows me to do as far as writing is to sketch out the basic idea of a song, jam it out live by triggering clips and tweaking effects envelopes, and then record all my tweaking live and go in and edit later.

for me it's just a much more fun way to do things. i like to keep things simple. not much a fan of navigating menus and all that. it's got two views. that's it. things work the same in both views, and there's less looking for how to do something than there is actually doing it.

i have been using live since its beginnings, when i was a wee beginner myself, and although it was less of a DAW then and more a live tool, i took to it like a fish to water.

many people still use it as simply a sketch tool and then take it into something more intricate, like cubase or logic, and i can see the benefits there too. just the fun of being able to jam things out so simply to me is invaluable. wouldn't trade it for anything else. i used cubase for about a week before i wanted to just toss my computer out of the window from frustration and boredom. live keeps me interested and continually surprises me with its power and usefulness. :)

i'd say play around with the demo for a while and check out the ableton forums at www.ableton.com. there are a ton of tips and tricks on there, and they are all fairly simple, but incredibly effective.

whatever you choose, have fun making tunes!

[djshiva]

in the interests of disclosure:

i like to spend less time in the studio and more time playing the things i have finished, and that is where live is perfect for me. get in, jam around, get it done, go play.

i can't be arsed to sit in a studio getting paler by the minute when i could be out partying and playing music with my friends. :)

[FIK]

in the interests of disclosure:

i like to spend less time in the studio and more time playing the things i have finished, and that is where live is perfect for me. get in, jam around, get it done, go play.

i can't be arsed to sit in a studio getting paler by the minute when i could be out partying and playing music with my friends. :)


Spot on ! Using live speeds up your production, for sure.

[tekkers]

i think live works best for people who come from using something like sonic foundrys acid - to me at first it was like a realtime asio version of that - back at live v1.0..

before acid i was sequencing everything on my yamaha rm1x sequencer - triggering a yam a3000 sampler - fatsystems 383 tb303 rip off - an1x synth and other crap..

pc came along and i'd be playing with loops and stuff in acid - then sampling the best results into ma sampler to run along with my midigear..


tried cubase a few times - i found it so longwinded.. logic was just as bad - so stuck to using pc for editing wavs and making loops for a few years - and ma rack with hardware sequencer for the midi realtime tweaking and all that...

live came along and was like an asio version of acid.. then v2 added rewire ( i think?) so the amazing reason was added then - realtime wav manulpulation AND midi style synth action in reason at the same time? wow - the reason for ma rack was gettin less and less

v3 u could rewire things like plogue biddule which could host Vsti instruments - i think it was v3 anyway ...

but V4 was the one - actually hosting all ya vst instruments in ableton? all on 2 simple pages with all ya info u needed - responding quickly to want u want it too do and all that.... adios rm1x and moi sampler - been good friends but needed no more..

hello shiny laptop and controlller - audio interface etc etc - - FAR more powerfull than ma rack ever was...


i know live's midi is rather limited - but - most of the time - i just twiddle knobs.... record loads of audio - hack out t he best bits... set up midi instruments to loop - then tweak the instrument...send the audio out too different fx etc etc .... generally i set up ma microkontrol's pads to be track mutes - scene selection switches etc etc....build up a pattern - then jam with the idea... then edit that......

sometimes i sit and mess around with the arrange page and sequence everything out section by section - it just depends on the mood...


i think its abit cruel to say live is just a sketchpad - or - what gets abit on my nerves is how when i say i use live, people assume i use it to DJ WITH...

i've never dj'ed in my life - i've allways made my own music since i was a kid - started out with ma first soundsampler on ma commodore amiga and soundtracker 1.0 when i was 15..

live's workflow does remind me of ma old trackers - and rm1x sequencer - which i think doesnt make it less of a sequencer than cubase / logic / sonar / reason etc etc

but with all this talk about it being such a great dj tool - i think that could make its primary function - of being a sequencer - more and more overlooked..


sorry too rant so much !


anyway - blatent plug time - crappy myspace page has a few of ma ableton live productions on www.myspace.com/tekkaz

there allso is a full 80 min live mix - recorded at a night called Monkee - in sunny stoke on trent last summer.... and y ah - its my trying to be a dj! :lol:

i set up 2 channels as a dj mixer type thing - which played whole tracks - filter on each - eq kill on each channel.... then had another 8 tracks running mostly audio loops which i would add to the dj style mix tracks - they'd go from being played linear - into loop based improvised live tracks - fx tweaking ontop of that - joystick set to crossfader for more dj style mixing ( i do sound abit of a spazz flipping it about sometimes tho ! ) - the whole thing was recording itsself as i was playing - and recording a live mic input too.... so when i had finished i could render the damm whole thing to a wav - and burn a cd - pretty much on the spot!

its easier to explain to listen to it - ya get too hear me abused by audience etc etc..


but yah.... i dont expect everyone to like it - and i'm quite happy to go along in ma own little world
but for me

live ROCKS





:shock:

[tocsin]

It's only advantage is it's ability to play "live" with it, in the sense that triggering pre-recorded stuff on channels is really "live." But, nonetheless, outside from that, I can't see any reason to upgrade to it instead of the new version of Cubase. Hell, do you even need to upgrade to Cubase SX3? Either way, you'll find that you can compose a track in Live just as well as you could in anything else. It's just a matter of getting there. Thus, if you're already comfortable with one thing and don't want to relearn the wheel, stick with what you know, particularly if you will only be using it as a studio tool. But, if you want to play some stuff off of a laptop for some people, you will have much more freedom than you would in Cubase.

[tekkers]

yeap i agree

- as far as i know cubase is lighter on the cpu than live is as well - thus ya can get more vsti's and stuff running at once..

nuthin's ever perfect - horses for courses and all that.

[dirty_bass]

Live makes you work in a different way, so once you learn it, and there is so much depth to it, it pushes you in new directions.
It`s great for production, very intuitive, and very instantaneous, which is what you want when trying to translate your mind into sound.
It`s horses for courses, but if you are open to new methods and ideas, I would try it.

Or to put it another way.

I`ve been using bog standard sequencers and soft studios for years.
Logic, Cubase etc.
I jumped onto the soft studio thing when it kinda first happened.

For ages I`ve been told I need to check out Live, but I just wouldn`t have it.
Why learn something else new, what more can it offer me?

Eventually I was pursuaded, and so I got a cracked copy.
A week later I purchased Live 5.

[StoQ]

is new ableton compatible with VST System Link ? is live better for pre-programmed production than cubase?

[tekkers]

i think the easiest way to see if u like live is try the demo at www.ableton.com


i personally find it the best sequencer that i've ever used - easily.... but thats for me - just try as many ones as u can and pick what u like best..

[The Divide]

I feel like im missing out on something. I have been running live 4 for a while and to be honest I didnt like it as a sequencer, thought it was great for mashing up loops and mangling but for midi construction I found it really awkward.

[Miromiric]

not really nice for advanced sequencing. good for playing with your own loops though. i use it for producing all the time, in reqire with cubase.

[RDR]

The midi impimentation on live is a tacked on after thought.

The only reason to buy live is so that you can play LIVE.

period.

[dirty_bass]

I think the implemenatation on 5 is very good. No worse than any other sequencer now, just a different work method.
I`ve got the boxed version of live so I got the proper manual and the deeper I`m digging the more I`m finding. So no real problems with it at all so far.

[RDR]

Sorry steve, i dont see how with any stretch of the imagination you could call it good.

The window doesnt detatch, zooming is a nightmare, entering notes is slow and unco-operative. And i got the manual too in PDF.

the implimentation is awful compared to cubase, logic and even pro-tools does better as does fruity. its the worst of the lot.

But thats not the point - it wasnt originally written for that. Its a live tool. And i love it!

[dirty_bass]

I have still yet to find any problem using it.
It`s all about familiarity, and learning to work in a different way.
Cubase is a wank monster for beginners, I`ve tried to teach so many people on it, I only find it easy because of familiarity.
Now I find it stale, and boring and an uncreative environment to work in.
Logic is fairly easy to use, but I know some people who just can`t get their heads around it.
I`m making tunes in live far quicker, and with more creativity these days, than with any other soft studio..
Horses for courses, but more and more people are producing in live now.
I tend to flit about now, as I never get into a comfortable method then, and keep myself on my toes.
But hell, what do I know.

[xfive]

I dunno there has not been one thing MIDI wise that I've wanted to do that I couldn't do in Live...
I use it from start to finish on every track I do. Within the session, almost all of my tracks are MIDI, with the audio ones used mostly for routing.

[The Divide]

Sorry steve, i dont see how with any stretch of the imagination you could call it good.

The window doesnt detatch, zooming is a nightmare, entering notes is slow and unco-operative. And i got the manual too in PDF.

the implimentation is awful compared to cubase, logic and even pro-tools does better as does fruity. its the worst of the lot.

But thats not the point - it wasnt originally written for that. Its a live tool. And i love it!

Im glad im not the only one whos having problems navigating myself around it. :lol:

I will stick to Cubase, it may take longer but I feel theres more I can do with it

[tocsin]

From my minimal experience with it, navigion is the biggest hurdle. Figure that out, and there are no obstacles. If you like it more, go with it. I've used it myself in a number of live PAs with a group for triggering loops and kicks. Nice software for improv stuff.

[tocsin]

Logic is fairly easy to use, but I know some people who just can`t get their heads around it.

It's an RTFM issue. And, for those that go the pirate route, most don't have the ****ing manual. I've played with it on the PC and have found no advantage with it over my traditional environment. Ableton, however, is a different beast. Much more intuitive once you figure out that one hurdle I mentioned before. PArticularly for techno.

[BloodStar]

I will deffinitely give it a try because i would like to set up my own livePa and i dont know how to do it differently than with ableton livem laptop and controller.. i'm producing tracks with cubase sx and as i reached the point i'm familier with it, i like this software a lot and dont want to change it. for playing will have to use ableton.