Underground Resistance and political techno

[SlavikSvensk]

sounds like a crappy term paper hahaha...but seriously...

UR was a very politicized group...you never see that anymore. Why is that? Is it because techno has become more middle-class? More white? Because techno is instrumental and abstract? Because young people the world over are less politicized than before? Another reason? Can you even consider UR's politics serious activism or just part of an image?

I'm curious what people think (I am not promoting one viewpoint or another)

[DrewDavid]

good question... I'm not sure I would consider UR to be a 'politically active' group per se – certainly not in the same way that a group like Rage Against the Machine were. From my perspective, Mike Banks and the rest of UR had/have a strict set of ideals and methods regarding how they present their music and how they conduct themselves professionaly; and they stuck to these methods rather than 'selling out' to a more accepted, global marketing approach. Dare I say it became ironic when the very techniques used to mask their identies became an identity?

[drift9]

Have to say that one of the many reasons that i love techno is that (for the vast majority of it), there is no message, no agenda. It's open to all comers, with all different religions, all different backgrounds, all different viewpoints and ways of thinking (see: metropolis forum). And that's why i think it's enjoyed by so many people on a global scale, not just regionaly or locked into one country.

As for UR: while i love UR and their output over the years has been incredible and incredibly influential, i do recall feeling back in the day that some of their politics were a little bit devisive. And, to be honest, i'm glad that more people haven't adopted a political slant. Granted, there might be some danger in techno becoming too faceless (a whole other discussion) but overt politics i can really live without.

[SlavikSvensk]

i've always wondered if UR's politics were more stylistic that serious. I think the image of the political radical is very punk, very edgy, and they did come around in the wake of Public Enemy...but at the same time, maybe there were differences of opinion among the members about this. I remember people's stories about Mike Banks from when we (drift9 and i) were living in Michigan, that seemed to indicate his personal politics were pretty close to the image, but it was always 2nd or 3rd hand, so i don't know if it was true. in any event, it seems pretty obvious neither Jeff Mills nor Rob Hood are particularly politically radical, so maybe for them it was image and for Mike it was more sincere...

[SlavikSvensk]

http://www.technotourist.org/images/sections/haqq-postcard.jpg

[mat]

First, don't take any second hand, third hand information/standpoint about UR and/or
mad mike for true. If you want to see what they do, come to submerge and have a talk
with them so you'll see.
The music, the records, messages printed on them show what they think. Check
the creed on the UR website. They are musicians, their main actions are local to detroit.
They cannot act like RATM, on Wall Street which is only possible because they are famous
and rich because black guys from detroit would be arrested and even shot by doing that
kind of action. Altough most of their fights would fit together.
As you said their righteousness is their force. Now UR shirts have the sweatshop free
label, they use local press plant, ...
And they use techno because this music has no color, no race ... just people dancing
together to the drums.

[tocsin]

I think techno is just more subtle. For some tracks, if you live in a region, knew the artist was from the region, and heard a particular sample, you might get the message where the rest of the world would be completely in the dark. One of the more heavy handed tracks I worked on with the group I'm part of on the Industrial Strength CD was a pretty big dis on Christian fanatics. It's possible one could get that from the samples in the track. We called it "Turn Right and Go Straight." Most people, particularly those who don't see such cute bumperstickers here in the US, probably wouldn't get it. There's another one on the same CD called "Blue Balls" where the samples were arranged around speeches involving the gunning down of an unarmed man in Cincinatti, and the riot it started. One was done in a similar fashion called "My Life with the RIAA" which was making fun of the music industry's legal bullshit and, if one didn't know the name of the track, and just sorta heard the samples, it would sound like
another speedcore track with horror movie samples. Did one called "Superbull" that started with a speak and spell voice giving George Bush's little speech about hunting terrorists and then use a crowd football chant in the buildup. I dunno. I've done a shitload of tracks with political themes that probably go unnoticed for the most part. Thus, I don't doubt there are plenty of others who do the same. Hell, some of the message has only been in the titles of some. Given the music places more emphasis on beats than words, it's harder to do noticably politicaly themed tracks. And, unfortunately, often when it is noticable, it feels really ****ing forced. Kinda like you're being lectured rather than amped up.

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah i lived nearby in the 1990s...i've been to 2030, submerge as far back as a decade ago, etc. and know quite a few people from the old days. spent time with juan, kevin, carl, gerald donald, etc. so i'm not exactly unaware of the intricacies of the detroit scene and its internal politics. i've never met mike personally, but know several people very close to him. so again, i'm pretty aware of where he fits into all this. that said, i'm not about to claim to know his personal politics without having met him myself, regardless of UR's persona. that was all i meant by that bit. i will reiterate what i said earlier, that it is quite possible that in the early days, and especially for jeff mills and rob hood, UR's political image was more about stylized image than firmly held politics, whereas for mike it seems as if it was always a lot more sincere.

back to the original question...why do you think there isn't more political techno along the lines of UR? more activism among techno artists/afficionados? more political iconography used by artists?

[tocsin]

I don't think it's less. Rather, since more people have gotten involved, it's just not as noticable. I've yet to find too many labels/artists that sell politics well. Alec Empire pretty much turned the whole thing into a joke and, unfortunately, for people that want to do politics, they seem to follow his lead. I also prefer the subtle to the "brick over the head" approach. Was Prolekult political?

[SlavikSvensk]

I don't think it's less. Rather, since more people have gotten involved, it's just not as noticable. I've yet to find too many labels/artists that sell politics well. Alec Empire pretty much turned the whole thing into a joke and, unfortunately, for people that want to do politics, they seem to follow his lead. I also prefer the subtle to the "brick over the head" approach. Was Prolekult political?

good point. it's also, let's face it, hard to BE political when your music is abstract and instrumental. a small number of people will get the meaning but most will not. RATM and Public Enemy could be more overt about it because they could spell it out. tell the listener. we would have to show the listener. it's not impossible, but since political messages beyond fox-friendly soundbites are necessarily complicated, it's tough...

...that said, there doesn't appear to be a large amount of techno INSPIRED by politics either...

[g]

... I'm not sure I would consider UR to be a 'politically active' group per se
true. i've spent time with mike in the past, had dinner with him, talked to him about what he does. he's certainly political but not in the stereotypical sense. i would call him more active (in a behind-the-scenes style) than i would political. the things he does for kids in detroit that most people don't even know about are far more significant to me than making sweeping statements about the state of the music industry.

when earlier this year UR gave a whole bunch of music to a video game that would primarily be played on SONY hardware, well...

but i don't blame them either. it's hard to keep an enterprise like UR going. i wouldn't be surprised if the balance sheet were a little topheavy these days. what's unfortunate is when you make a huge production out of shaming someone like sony music only to basically help them out a few years later. apparently this time the check was big enough. the unfortunate part is not doing the deal; i'm not speaking idealistically. what's unfortuante is being forced to step on your own toes.

anyway... endless respect for the music. but if you look at it this way - almost literally - it makes more sense: UR = PE

[DrewDavid]

I know what you're feeling here, but to me, this move almost seems like classic UR strategy: infiltrate the battlefield and hit them subliminally. I can picture a group of kids playing the new PS3, smoking pot and "The Punisher" coming out of the speakers... they may not be fully aware of what it is, but slowly the UR virus infects them.

Just another way to look at it I suppose.


when earlier this year UR gave a whole bunch of music to a video game that would primarily be played on SONY hardware, well...

[SlavikSvensk]

you talking about Midnight Club 3? i don't have a problem with it at all. sony is a giant conglomerate whose divisions have little to do with each other, and besides, the game is published by independent publisher rockstar games. sony gets a small cut, but within a completely separate division from music.

[g]

you talking about Midnight Club 3? i don't have a problem with it at all. sony is a giant conglomerate whose divisions have little to do with each other, and besides, the game is published by independent publisher rockstar games. sony gets a small cut, but within a completely separate division from music.
agreed. my point was that around the time of all the Jaguar rhetoric, that is likely not a distinction the UR machine would have toleratd. they made more than one statement about not using sony products, etc

[g]

when earlier this year UR gave a whole bunch of music to a video game that would primarily be played on SONY hardware, well...

I know what you're feeling here, but to me, this move almost seems like classic UR strategy: infiltrate the battlefield and hit them subliminally. I can picture a group of kids playing the new PS3, smoking pot and "The Punisher" coming out of the speakers... they may not be fully aware of what it is, but slowly the UR virus infects them.

Just another way to look at it I suppose.
yeah i get it...

again, my point was that they made such a global, sweeping anti-Sony stand w/ Jaguar, it's a little backpedaling to then later be involved with the game. hell, Mike famously threw the rockstar guy out of the UR building when he first came. but after 2 years of negotiating, that 'throw him out' grandstanding was replaced with lawyers doing their thing... woops. check in hand, foot in mouth.

regardless i am glad that jimmy joe in nebraska is unwittingly hearing UR and not the crystal method or some shit

[alsynthe]

i think the free techno scene is still very much political, i.e. reclaim the streets, the g4 protest alot of techno soundsystems went up there, all the protests in europe have loadsa techno.

[mat]

back to the original question...why do you think there isn't more political techno along the lines of UR? more activism among techno artists/afficionados? more political iconography used by artists?

here's your political propaganda :
http://www.undergroundgallery.jp/isf/index.html

;)

[tocsin]

i think the free techno scene is still very much political, i.e. reclaim the streets, the g4 protest alot of techno soundsystems went up there, all the protests in europe have loadsa techno.

Agreed. Though, to a large extent, I think that scene has become a parody of itself. I got no shortage of talks about "selling out to the man" by some people involved in that scene when I started going to law school. Seems more like activism for entertainment than true work for change a lot of times, if not blatantly manipulating a movement in order to get heard as a musician. Certainly not saying it's all this way. But, it seems to be much more of a norm now. I see just as much disinformation coming out of the free techno camp at times as I do from the G8 nations. Both now seem perfectly content with manipulating the people for their own personal gain, whether through music popularity or beneficial trade/development agreements. :p