how valid is "novelty" techno

[Stodgy]

Just had a listen to a tune of acidtrashes in the production forum.

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/portal/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=42926

Reading some of the consequent posts made me wonder, is this kind of tune just an aberration or does it have a valid place in todays music?

[dirty_bass]

Novelty techno is as valid as any other novelty thing. Like crazy frog, or the chicken song, or the mr blobby song.

[dan the acid man]

you can still have well produced novelty techno, just as you can have well produced serious techno

[Stodgy]

It does seem to appeal to a lot of people so why does it get such a slagging all the time?
Is it because people secretly like this stuff but don't think it's cool or acceptable to admit to it?

[robin m]

Novelty techno has a place as far as I'm concerned - not interested myself on the whole, but it can bring new people to more mainstream (!) techno I suppose. Like my housemate who DJs breaks and hiphop but somewhere heard and went and bought a load of random (and on the whole terrible - Buggles shranz?) techno remixes and from that has started taking more of an interest in and buying the odd bit of other (proper) techno.

Some 'novelty techno' definitely counts as a war crime though. :nono:

[eyeswithoutaface]

the answers in the title. Novelty. Different strokes for different folks. Its valid if you like listening to, on the whole, cheap, uneccesary wastes of vinyl/mp3 space that do nothing but take a track someone else has already done and slaps a kick and ride or something over the top. That to me is not novelty, its lazy, pointless, cheesy, thoughtless, cheap ad nauseum.... Novelty techno to me is say, and il probably get a raised brow or 2 at this, "Erase Techno" by McCormack. This to me is a track thats supposed to be banged out at 7am as last track on about +8 and not really anywhere else. A time when everyones head is falling to bits anyway, and thats novelty to me. I would probably only listen to this record when out and its 7am and its on about +8, hence to me its novelty when i hear it.

The likes of the schranz bootlegs, thats just an idea that has seemingly took off whilst also seemingly annoying everyone at the same time simply due to, again, the cheapness, the lazyness, the disregard for other people's past musical contributions to techno or their respective scene etc etc

interesting topic, makes a change round here at the moment must say

[dan the acid man]

yeah, it is a bit quiet lately, i've been trying to think of some topics to start, but its hard thinking of ones weve not already covered at some point or another, not doing a good job as mod am i :oops: :lol: :doh:

[Stodgy]

Yeah, started this topic because I have made a little bit of cash from "bootlegs" or novelty tunes and as someone who has spent more on putting on party's than I will ever make as a producer I was interested in what other Techno makers think about this possible "sell out" form or techno

[lunatrick]

novelty records can be alright......partying is about having fun as well as cooly stroking ones chin isn't it?

I reckon the reason schranz bootlegs have started appearing is that you can't really listen to a flitered kick/hithat/snare loop for 10 hours can you?

[massplanck]

novelty & techno shouldnt be in the same sentence. Novelty has its place but NOT masquerading or riding on the back of something which is inherantly ANTI-NOVELTY.

did i make sense?

[dirty_bass]

novelty & techno shouldnt be in the same sentence. Novelty has its place but NOT masquerading or riding on the back of something which is inherantly ANTI-NOVELTY.

did i make sense?
made sense to me.

if you want novelty, get crazy frog.

In fact, aren`t we due a crazy frog schranz bootleg.

[dan the acid man]

ring ding ding ding ding ding.........umpah umpah umpah umpah bang crash shhhhhhhhhhhhh

[massplanck]

novelty-death metal anyone?

[massplanck]

It does seem to appeal to a lot of people so why does it get such a slagging all the time?
Is it because people secretly like this stuff but don't think it's cool or acceptable to admit to it?

coz its shit beyond all comprehension .

By any means go ahead and make your novelty music and have a laugh but dont DARE call it 'techno'.

[MARKEG]

novelty techno to me? - 99% of techno today

*OMG you say*

there's loads off ppl out there at the mo producing techno that call it techno. i'm not going to say what i think that is, cause i play so much of it at places i play, but you just can't get ppl into techno without it!!!!!

REAL techno to me looks to the originators - juan atkins, derrick may, kevin sauderson - the detroit ethos. they never had a genre to live up to at the time - they jjust 'created' their sound.

either you're creating music to change music or you're creating novelty techno.

techno is about new. techno is about music you've never heard before.

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno. if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop.

MHO ;)

[dirty_bass]

if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop.

MHO ;)

Sometimes I love you, you beautiful man.

[machina]

novelty techno to me? - 99% of techno today

REAL techno to me looks to the originators - juan atkins, derrick may, kevin sauderson - the detroit ethos. they never had a genre to live up to at the time - they jjust 'created' their sound.

either you're creating music to change music or you're creating novelty techno.

techno is about new. techno is about music you've never heard before.

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno. if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop.

MHO ;)

just outta interest - and this isn't a wind up - would your music or henry's or whatever fall into the 'techno' 1% or not? do you actually want it to? not trying to say anything against anyone here - just genuinely interested...

machina

[MARKEG]

all i know mate is i love the original techno ethos and i try to apply that to our music.

if i do it good, if i dont good.

i just hope ppl like and understand what we do.

anyway the subject is novelty techno hehehehe LOL ;)

[Stodgy]

Does this all mean that whatever an individual produces CAN be called techno so long as the person producing wanted to create a fresh and original sound, irrespective of whether it is cheesetastic or as novelty as the cheeky girls?

[eyeswithoutaface]

cant say i agree really, Techno has become something totally different to what the original guys set out to achieve, to compare the scene at its respective times i.e then and now, is unfair. To call 99% of stuff thats about now "novelty" is also unfair, and a bit arrogant i must say. Does this mean that everyone bar who you view to be pushing things falls into that 99%?

no offence to anyone one here but that must mean we are all in that 99% aswell because no one on here pushes techno in a totally new direction, there are shit hot producers on here making some baddddd ass records, so to simply lump them in with all teh crap just because they are not the new mills or atkins is stupid and very very unfair

and there's a wonder why not many new posts are put up, this was meant to be about novelty techno and within a post it, imo i must add before i get moaned at, descended into a "most of techno is shite" offensive

weird

[Stodgy]

Have to agree with what you say there Eyes. It does seem that there is a very elitist attitude prevalent on this forum. Not saying that is a good or bad thing (thats another thread) but I think it must affect what people say on here.

Getting back to the novelty issue... If 99% of techno that is currently being produced is novelty then doesn't that automatically validate it as a form of music (by virtue of its popularity). The other way of looking at this is if its just the 1% that can called "real" or "original" techno then surely its the 1% that has become the novelty.

[eyeswithoutaface]

well ive been guilty of elitism myself, who hasnt at some point over something, but i do think there are alot of sweeping statements on here that kind of put people off or rub people up the wrong way more so than other forums i check. I put it down to so many people in one forum all striving for the one thing, which is good but can obviously lead to disagreements.

[NRGboy]

Would you class One Night In Hackney as Novelty Techno ?
I would, you could say that this is a blatent rip off of One Night in New York City, but i still like it. I think it's a 'novel' idea.

[TechMouse]

well ive been guilty of elitism myself, who hasnt at some point
Yeah, but only because we're better than everyone else...

[JamieBall]

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno. if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop. MHO ;)

Well said, I reckon this is the reason a lot of producers are 'slowing up' now, too, as there's so many bases of sound already covered in what is perceived as 'techno'.

A lot of stuff for me just gets added to the 'sounds like this one' pile, but I guess it has its utilitarian place in the grand scheme of things.

It's good when you hear techno that's going in a different directon to the majority of stuff, and mind blowing when you hear something UNEXPECTED !

We also need more people who're prepared to make a stand for techno, I reckon.

None of this 'I don't do interviews' or 'I'm not part of the techno scene anymore' stuff... Has anyone noticed how many producers who are trying to 'break' the mainstream dance music market no longer like to be referred to as a 'techno' artist ?

This is a RUBBISH stance to take.

Stick to your guns or there will be no-one to fire those huge shells haphazardly into the heartlands of the unenlightened masses !

Where will these people be when their scene is no longer en vogue ? Claiming they have 'always been a techno artist' most probably...

On a positive note, the stigma on techno in general seems to be lifting slightly in the UK at the moment and though nights are struggling there IS new blood coming into the scene. Producers need to bear this in mind before stepping to the studio to 'knock out a banger'.

Don't do it....

Produce like you want to KNOCK OUT THE ENTIRE WORLD - K.O. :twisted:

[JamieBall]

Oh, and I reckon novelty techno (when done well) breaks up the monotony sometimes ;)

Some of it is inane and pointless, sure, but what genre doesn't have its fair share of stuff that falls into this bracket ?

Little hooks and snippets from past classics can be amusing when dropped into the mix.

Not when dropped over the top of Schranz records, though :cry:

[SlavikSvensk]

novelty techno to me? - 99% of techno today

*OMG you say*

there's loads off ppl out there at the mo producing techno that call it techno. i'm not going to say what i think that is, cause i play so much of it at places i play, but you just can't get ppl into techno without it!!!!!

REAL techno to me looks to the originators - juan atkins, derrick may, kevin sauderson - the detroit ethos. they never had a genre to live up to at the time - they jjust 'created' their sound.

either you're creating music to change music or you're creating novelty techno.

techno is about new. techno is about music you've never heard before.

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno. if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop.

MHO ;)

:clap:

[davethedrummer]

for me its all about people in the club
at least it is when you talk about " novelty " techno

i've made loads of "novelty" tracks over the years but they've all been original in their own way , concieved and produced and mixed in the same way as all my other tracks.

that is to say althought the idea or concept of the track might be stupid or a cover version ie " batman" the track itself has been put together in a proper way , by rewriting the riffs , and totally creating something new that is "based" on the original and not by just taking a sample from the original and just sticking harder drums on it.

in fact apart from the fact that one night in hackney says "one night" in the title there is very litle musical or lyrical similarity to "one night" in new york maybe you guys should give them a listen back to back one day.

and i never did get on with the bit that said " f*cked her all night"

and yes to my mind that was a novelty record too.


but anyway for me a good novelty record can sum up a whole night , loosen up a tight crowd and allow people to feel the more " techno " techno that you might be playing too.

so for me those records have their place
but not the schranz ones , sorry thats just naff , no one wants to be naff.

[Agent Orange NYC]

Everything has rules (even having no rules is a rule). Good art will know those rules then break them. To say "techno is about music you've never heard before," that can only happen if you have new rules, and not the rules of techno, which makes it something new and not what we know as techno right? I'm glad i never took philosophy!

[oldbugger]

.

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno.

:shock:

i can't believe you said that. :nono:

no dispespect to anyone but that comment is so wrong in so many ways. I am actualy lost for words right now.

honestly..thats shocking :cry:

[rhythmtech]

novelty techno to me? - 99% of techno today

*OMG you say*

there's loads off ppl out there at the mo producing techno that call it techno. i'm not going to say what i think that is, cause i play so much of it at places i play, but you just can't get ppl into techno without it!!!!!

REAL techno to me looks to the originators - juan atkins, derrick may, kevin sauderson - the detroit ethos. they never had a genre to live up to at the time - they jjust 'created' their sound.

either you're creating music to change music or you're creating novelty techno.

techno is about new. techno is about music you've never heard before.

anything you have heard before, isnt REAL techno. techno maybe, but not true original techno. if you're creating music to sound like 'techno' it isnt techno. full stop.

MHO ;)

just out of interest (and i do agree with you to a certain extent) if all techno was new to us, how would we distinguish what techno was? would we all be listening aimless to somebodies jazz style techno noodling? i think sometimes genres serve a purpose. without us "knowing" what techno was, we probably wouldn't be talking on a techno forum or any forum for that matter. just an idea.

on the another hand there needs to be innovation for the music to survive.

[SlavikSvensk]

maybe it's a bit over the top, but i think in the context of his full comment it's fine. the point is, techno is and should be about freeing yourself from rules and limitations. there are just too many rules in techno today...

[dirty_bass]

there are just too many rules in techno today...

I would say that there are too few people willing to experiment. There are no rules, only people that follow, or wait to be led.

[SlavikSvensk]

that's basically the same thing i said, but from a different angle. there's no rulebook, but people adhere to guidelines as if there were...

[Stodgy]

techno is and should be about freeing yourself from rules and limitations.

:clap: Great sentiment

[massplanck]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.

[dirty_bass]

that's basically the same thing i said, but from a different angle. there's no rulebook, but people adhere to guidelines as if there were...

oh yeah.
haha
great minds....

[davethedrummer]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.


that's like saying

" ok jazz people , no more saxophones "

but there is
underworld , aphex twin , autechre , and kraftwerk to get started with
it's all techno to me and it doesn't have to have the klk drum
a kik drum does not a good techno record make
and a good techno record is not just about the kik drum.
something i wish poeple would be a bit more open to around here.

[dirty_bass]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.



a kik drum does not a good techno record make
and a good techno record is not just about the kik drum.
something i wish poeple would be a bit more open to around here.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Hurragh!
I`m in total agreement here.
Some people just think it`s all about the kick, HUGE massive obvious super compressed kick drums for white people who can`t dance.
The kick is just the pulse, there`s so much more to be had in other areas, it`s not all about the boom-tish.

[Udy]

The kick is just the pulse, there`s so much more to be had in other areas, it`s not all about the boom-tish.

Unless of course you're head of percussion in a marching band :doh:

[SlavikSvensk]

maybe one day kick drums will get so massive that producers will just stop putting anything else in, and just concentrate on the big, compressed, filtered, wooshing kicks, and each week dozens of new records will come out all trying to outdo the latest big-kick-and-nowt-else hits...

:mashed:

it's possible, you know...

[rhythmtech]

maybe one day kick drums will get so massive that producers will just stop putting anything else in, and just concentrate on the big, compressed, filtered, wooshing kicks, and each week dozens of new records will come out all trying to outdo the latest big-kick-and-nowt-else hits...

:mashed:

it's possible, you know...

pgv06?????

[paper]

99% is novelty!!!!!!!!!

How many artists that where there 20 years ago are still creating with the same passion and belief, in a scene albeit it one that has progressed. No need for examples. They still speak for themselves through quality music.

Perhaps their popularity has somewhat changed the way they interact with the people who love the music but i would say the love of techno is still there for most of the invators.

Yes I agree there is a degree of watering down of quality. There is also a great deal of people not knowing what quality techno once had for itself. Education is what is needed. The interest in what made it so great and not feeling worried to comment when it's not right for us.

In my opinion it is the attitude and lack of respect for these people that is turning them away from what they used to be part of.

[Udy]

maybe one day kick drums will get so massive that producers will just stop putting anything else in, and just concentrate on the big, compressed, filtered, wooshing kicks, and each week dozens of new records will come out all trying to outdo the latest big-kick-and-nowt-else hits...

:mashed:

it's possible, you know...

that's very close to a Bill Drummond quote you know.

[Jay Pace]

Main Entry: tech·no
Pronunciation: 'tek-nO
Function: noun
Etymology: techno- (as in techno-pop or techno-rock, styles of popular music utilizing electronically created sounds)
: electronic dance music that features a fast beat and synthesized sounds usually without vocals or a conventional popular song structure

There you go. Debate over

;)

[mattboyslim]

dictionarys suck. i stopped having faith in the english language when they decided to give recognition to chavs

[TechMouse]

.... when they decided to give recognition to chavs
I tend the find the best tactic is not to make eye contact, and generally just pretend they're not there.

[Jay Pace]

I recommend melting them down into glue.

[TechMouse]

I recommend melting them down into glue.
Brings a whole new meaning to "self abuse".

[Stodgy]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.

Check out Sun Electric's "Kitchen" on R&S. I reckon you'll find that album covers more ground in techno terms than most techno artists will in a lifetime of producing.

Everything from ambient soundscapes to grinding drum workouts and a combination of the two that caress your ears and move your feet.

[massplanck]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.


that's like saying

" ok jazz people , no more saxophones "

but there is
underworld , aphex twin , autechre , and kraftwerk to get started with
it's all techno to me and it doesn't have to have the klk drum
a kik drum does not a good techno record make
and a good techno record is not just about the kik drum.
something i wish poeple would be a bit more open to around here.

:shock: i was only joking. and ps all the above use a kick drum. :lol:

[massplanck]

ok smart asses.. free yourself from the kick drum rule immediately.

Check out Sun Electric's "Kitchen" on R&S. I reckon you'll find that album covers more ground in techno terms than most techno artists will in a lifetime of producing.

Everything from ambient soundscapes to grinding drum workouts and a combination of the two that caress your ears and move your feet.

Why dont you make stuff like that instead of novelty techno tunes mate? I'm fine myself.

[massplanck]

PS. Who the hell came up with this 99% bollocks? It seems to be on the tip of everyones tounges these days.

the official figure is 87.4%.

[massplanck]

Check out Sun Electric's "Kitchen" on R&S. I reckon you'll find that album covers more ground in techno terms than most techno artists will in a lifetime of producing.



not my fault no of ye have the balls to release stuff like this.

its not hard to do album like that at all at all.

No true artist is ever morbid. He should be able to express everything.