Hijackin Loops

[module]

not for release, as in profit & theft. but for live shows.

for example, takin a loop of a Mills track for an Ableton set. or using an accapella from a house track. and using it creatively, not jus lifting 4 beats & looping.

personally, i do it. have done, and will continue to.

jus wondering what the general feeling was.

[rhythmtech]

every one generally does it. i often rob loops and use them in my own productions. as long as you dont use it in the same context the original track uses and try to disguise it and make it your own, i dont see it as a problem. often if you listen to a track unmixed you'll hear a percussion loop with a high pass filter on it from another track or a bassline with the highs filtered out (this can work quite nice when reversed). obviously you dont want it as the main element in your track but more as a percussive addition. (and as long as you give the original artist a mention!!).

[davethedrummer]

personally, for live i dont really agree with using anything thats not your own composition
however i do chuck the odd film sample or accapella over the top from time to time
but the basic tracks i play are always my own
if you want to play " the bells " for example then play records

live should be for showcasing your own productions i think.

i.m.o.

[RDR]

personally, for live i dont really agree with using anything thats not your own composition
however i do chuck the odd film sample or accapella over the top from time to time
but the basic tracks i play are always my own
if you want to play " the bells " for example then play records

live should be for showcasing your own productions i think.

i.m.o.

Exactly the way i do it. I take pride in producing everything from the ground up.

The only things i am prepared to use are those sounds i cannot sequence or play myself.. e.g. i have used a ramstein guitar riff before and got my mate to play in trumpets in the studio for me. Also i have used singers and accapellas before...

as above i.m.o.

[rhythmtech]

personally, for live i dont really agree with using anything thats not your own composition


but thats only if your playing an actual fully live set. In my case some of it is live and some of it is djing, all done in ableton. so throwing loops about the place to enhance the overall product is ok in my book.

in a studio situation i think its perfectly acceptable to sample tunes. you do have to be careful what you choose ie the bells.. i dont want one of my tracks to suddenly turn into a mills track.. and if i was to take a sample or loop it certainly wouldn't have that bell sound. i'd go for a loop near the start or end, put it through recycle and chop it up, low pass filter and so on, then use it as a breakbeat or something. thats how i make a lot of subtle rhythms.

on the other hand if you're lucky enough to have the talent and patience to create everything from scratch then fair play.

[Martin Dust]

There's no rules, **** what everyone says ;)

[Mirsha]

You mean like this?

http://media.putfile.com/jinglebells72

[module]

i'm not referring to whole loops.

for example, with something like the 'You Work It' vocal & choopin it to hell & settin over your own beats in a different phrase.

jus lifting 2 bars of a Gaetek record is lazy, but if you slice the beats up & make a new pattern put of context with the orginal, i feel that is as valid as samlping a beat of a sample cd.


cheers for the input ppl

[massplanck]

http://2700.us/images/hijack.gif

[Stodgy]

http://2700.us/images/hijack.gif

:clap:

[module]

http://2700.us/images/hijack.gif


ahm... thank you for the input... but..

this board.. :roll:

[MangaFish]

not for release, as in profit & theft. but for live shows.

for example, takin a loop of a Mills track for an Ableton set. or using an accapella from a house track. and using it creatively, not jus lifting 4 beats & looping.

personally, i do it. have done, and will continue to.

jus wondering what the general feeling was.

2 words: DJ Surgeon ;)

[Zektor]

steve rachmad has sampled mills and released the track on music man. BUT he mentioned Mills' name on the record. http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?what=R&obid=5982

Sample taken from AX-12 Humana by Millsart
Used with kind permission of Jeff Mills (A special thank you)

So you have to ask permission first!!!

[massplanck]

ahm... thank you for the input... but..

this board.. :roll:

hmmm.

My input is this. me.

If i dj i dj. if i play live i play live. If i blur the two i'm neither and i'm hijacking especially if i dont give credit or make sure people know that i know i'm hijacking.

anyone who thinks its 'ok' to sample competetant artists because they dont have the 'patience' to create from scratch can **** off and die.

[massplanck]

that excludes accapellas & film sample of course. but 'creatively' arranging other peoples loops or whatever (are you flutes still using loops BTW?) ..ie putting it through supatrigga and dragging the mouse a couple of times. Like i said **** off and die. Go get your own talent.

[machina]

Yeah - i think it all depends on if it's billed as a 'live' set or not... if it is 'live', it should be your own work, but if billed as a DJ set or semi-live, doing the Surgeon thing and using other people's tracks and loops is all good (that's what dj'ing is :) )

As far as studio work goes - i'm completely against sampling techno to use in techno records... i don't have a problem with sampling a 70's funk or disco tune or something because you are still really creating something completely fresh, but sampling a techno tune to put in your own techno record is just cheating imo, and involves no skill or thought - practically stealing. if you get permission, you're effectively doing a remix which is another thing altogether.

machina

[acidsaturation]

I'll use stuff that I can't play - like guitars (though I've bought one now and practicing hard) or live drumloops and stuff. I use the sampled loops from time to time if for example I get a computer music Cd and something sounds nice. I don't think there's any shame in using both, but tbh it's so much more fun to make yr own stuff, but it is also fun getting a sample and mangling it into something new.

Sometimes I'll load that into my sampler and use it in a live tune but it's as one of many layers.

Nicking bits of peoples stuff and just loading it into ableton and calling it a live set isn't on though and is just lazy.

[massplanck]

no shame in using a sample CD i suppose.. but puttinga filter on a mills loop etc and hiding it behind your own stuff. What a ****ing joke.

Good points machina about sampling anything but techno in a techno record.

[Mindful]

Your cheating yourself out of one of the greatest parts of making music if your not creating your own sounds and patterns IMO

[rhythmtech]

no shame in using a sample CD i suppose.. but puttinga filter on a mills loop etc and hiding it behind your own stuff. What a **** joke.

Good points machina about sampling anything but techno in a techno record.

but you're not hiding it behind your own stuff. you're, if doing it right, making it part of your own composition. essentially just using it as another instument. and some absolute classic tunes have come about this way. ie: beats international 'dub be good to me'

[massplanck]

no shame in using a sample CD i suppose.. but puttinga filter on a mills loop etc and hiding it behind your own stuff. What a **** joke.

Good points machina about sampling anything but techno in a techno record.

but you're not hiding it behind your own stuff. you're, if doing it right, making it part of your own composition. essentially just using it as another instument. and some absolute classic tunes have come about this way. ie: beats international 'dub be good to me'

but you're not hiding it behind your own stuf..

i agree you are hiding behind someone elses stuff. like some sort or a jeff mills/gaetek techno tribute band. braaaaavooooo.. loopy techno sampling loopy techno? **** off and die. no wonder people arent showing up for gigs if thats the buzz.

how can you make something you havent composed 'a part of your own composition'. why dont you just 'MAKE YOUR OWN COMPOSITION'. OMGG LOL ROFL WFT!

what a waste of your own feelings and someone elses.

[massplanck]

BTW/LOL/ // 98 % of 'classic' tunes/techno tunes have come about from people @@@NOT@@@@ sampling or creatively arranging someone elses work.

nice one. you are well on your way to becominging the next 'beats intenational'. ie one hit wonder shite. hmmm i wonder what them dudes are at these days anyways? and do us a favour and name us another one of their classics whilst you are at it. stop justifying bollokcs.

[The Overfiend]

Planck is on point these days.

[massplanck]

Planck is on point these days.

i blame the new colour scheme and all the christmas boozing.
;)

[RDR]

As ever the boundaries are blurred, i've seen some people play live who were paid well for their sets (im NOT going to mention names because they know who they are) who have advertised as LIVE and proceeded to play loops from other artists as the main hook in their live set...

Thats just ****ing lying...

Either DJ or do it live. Dont bullshit and make out like you did it yourself. Have the ****ing balls to step up and take criticism on the chin rather than play it safe sampling other who did the hard work.

I love ableton, but frankly i blame it (and its users - i use the term loosley.. users is probably a bit to grand for some of the cunts i've seen 'using' it. Just pressing the ****ing DAT play button would have the same effect...)

and there is the other argument

Only those in the know give a shit - we are all entertainers, as long as the crowd is entertained then what does it matter. There is plenty original and fun reworkings of already released tracks out there. After all how different is it from playing a cover version? Bands do it all the time and no-one complains about that.

Its a sad/happy fact that punters dont really give a **** or understand what equipment you are using. As long as you remember to put on a show and help peoploe to enjoy themselves its fine. Harping on about loops and samples is YAWN BORING territory for most other people in the club.

Hand wringing about music is for professionals...learn to enjoy.


Those are the two arguments and they are both pretty powerful. People stand on both sides of the camp. The only person who is right is.....

YOU.

[Miromiric]

massplanck is really strict and to the point these days. must be cause all of that love in the air...

[dan the acid man]

well written dodgy :techno: :myagi:

[rhythmtech]

BTW/LOL/ // 98 % of 'classic' tunes/techno tunes have come about from people @@@NOT@@@@ sampling or creatively arranging someone elses work.

nice one. you are well on your way to becominging the next 'beats intenational'. ie one hit wonder shite. hmmm i wonder what them dudes are at these days anyways? and do us a favour and name us another one of their classics whilst you are at it. stop justifying bollokcs.

b4 you go getting abusive with me, take the time to look up who beats international is.
and you're telling me that you've NEVER sampled someone elses work. you dont sample? you gotta be kiddin... sampling has been a part of forward thinking music for years. if you look back to the northern soul era, you had tunes where musicians would lift a bassline they liked from another track and use it in their own (essentially sampling without the technology).

lifting a vocal sample (from a film), an accapella or a breakbeat is all exactly the same thing. you're still lifting from someone elses work .

and BTW if you read the thread properly would might have noticed that i never said i sampled the bells... i just gave an arguement as to how it could be used if sampled.

so if you want to have an adult discussion about this subject please lay off on the attacks. i'll talk about this all day but not to someone getting aggresive because they disagree with someone elses opinion.

[Miromiric]

whhaaaat? maybe he doesnt sample other people`s work? maybe he doesnt use sample CDs.

[rhythmtech]

c'mon... everyone has sampled a kick or a snare or a hat at some stage. and those that haven't fair enough.. but no reason to throw abuse around because someone else does.

[Mindful]

your talking about forward thinking music then telling us to look back to how the northern soul era used to lift stuff.

To me looking back at how people did things a few decades ago is not the way to create foward thinking music.
Also as you piont out they did not have our tecnology then so why look to how they did it without what we have?

The beats internatinal track dub be good to me may have been written by Norman Cook but hes not exactly somone we shold be looking up to for where we wish to take our music.
Or rather not for me personaly.

One more thing its not exactly unbelivable that sombody can make music without sampling is it?

[Miromiric]

i dont think he abused using of samples, but he sure did cuting somebody else`s records.
why would even want to do that?

[RDR]

well written dodgy :techno: :myagi:

Thank you Dan!

Frankly i think this "discussion" is totally unproductive. Posturing gets us no-where

if you like sampling - do it creatively

if you dont - do it creatively...

ah.. there's the answer!

Creativity.

Get it?

[rhythmtech]

your talking about forward thinking music then telling us to look back to how the northern soul era used to lift stuff.

To me looking back at how people did things a few decades ago is not the way to create foward thinking music.
Also as you piont out they did not have our tecnology then so why look to how they did it without what we have?

The beats internatinal track dub be good to me may have been written by Norman Cook but hes not exactly somone we shold be looking up to for where we wish to take our music.
Or rather not for me personaly.

One more thing its not exactly unbelivable that sombody can make music without sampling is it?

no they didn't have our technology.. they just played it themselves.

norman cook may not be to everyones tastes (especially the last few years) but you can't take away what he has done.

and i never claimed it was unbeleivable. just that people are beginning to talk about sampling like its a dirty word.

[rhythmtech]

well written dodgy :techno: :myagi:

Thank you Dan!

Frankly i think this "discussion" is totally unproductive. Posturing gets us no-where

if you like sampling - do it creatively

if you dont - do it creatively...

ah.. there's the answer!

Creativity.


Get it?


exactly what i was trying to say.

[Jay Pace]

I don't really get this.

Sample all you want if it makes your live set better.

The boundaries between djing and live sets are blurring more each year with developments in technology.

If you are sequencing other people's loops live is that a live set or a dj set? A la Hawtin?

Wouldn't tell him to f/ck off and die for using other people's loops. Might give him a slap and a once over with a pair of clippers mind but...

To me a live set is anything that involves the creation of new music on the fly, with the potential to go in many different directions. So long as its done well I have no problem with people using other people's loops.

Tim Exile would always play about 15 anthems in 5 minutes all cut up and mangled, just to hype up the crowd. It worked brilliantly. Do it for for effect, play other people's loops to make an impact.

Passing other people's talent off as your own is shoddy. Using other people's work constructively for effect can be dynamite.

Ramble ramble...

[Mindful]

your talking about forward thinking music then telling us to look back to how the northern soul era used to lift stuff.

To me looking back at how people did things a few decades ago is not the way to create foward thinking music.
Also as you piont out they did not have our tecnology then so why look to how they did it without what we have?

The beats internatinal track dub be good to me may have been written by Norman Cook but hes not exactly somone we shold be looking up to for where we wish to take our music.
Or rather not for me personaly.

One more thing its not exactly unbelivable that sombody can make music without sampling is it?

no they didn't have our technology.. they just played it themselves.

norman cook may not be to everyones tastes (especially the last few years) but you can't take away what he has done.

and i never claimed it was unbeleivable. just that people are beginning to talk about sampling like its a dirty word.

Eye fair doos.

I must point out im not even saying that I havent or dont sample.
You should realy do what you feel.

what I am trying to say is what dodgy managed to say much better than I could and that is be creative.

Oh and dont cheat your self out of the expeirence of writing and programing your own patterns and sounds.

[RDR]

Might give him a slap and a once over with a pair of clippers mind but...

:lol:

[The Divide]

Re: Hijacking loops, not for me. There’s enough loops in techno already and it would probably bore me even more, hijacking samples and rearranging them creatively and coming up with new grooves works much better (imo). Reminds me of when I went to see Ignition tech live pa ( could have been the player pa @ the orbit) and noticed he was adding using loops out of the illegal loops series, kinda let me down as that part of the set required little skill. Gimme own material over lifted loops any day

Why are we even talking about norman cook?

As for assplank, well I heard some of the loops he made using a mic, the pc and some of his kit (although he doesn’t know this hehe) and if he used them in a mix it would be 10 times better than him using someone else’s loop

[The Divide]

edit button mang?

[The Overfiend]

Re: Hijacking loops, not for me. There’s enough loops in techno already and it would probably bore me even more, hijacking samples and rearranging them creatively and coming up with new grooves works much better (imo). Reminds me of when I went to see Ignition tech live pa ( could have been the player pa @ the orbit) and noticed he was adding using loops out of the illegal loops series, kinda let me down as that part of the set required little skill. Gimme own material over lifted loops any day

Why are we even talking about norman cook?

As for assplank, well I heard some of the loops he made using a mic, the pc and some of his kit (although he doesn’t know this hehe) and if he used them in a mix it would be 10 times better than him using someone else’s loop

I was going to write an elaborate response but Danny said what I was going to say so.

[Mindful]

edit button mang?

Haha are you Gunjakk in disguise?

[TheRev]

My theory is simple, if you abuse it (the sample that is), you can use it.

One of my favorite things to do these days is to take samples and abuse the hell out of them with filters and effects to the point where I have a completley different sound. To me that's a whole other level of creating, using one sample as a raw sonic pallette and molding it into something else.

To me that's totally fair game.

As for using something carte blanche and just putting it in a different context, isn't that what we do everytime we DJ? Play tracks in new context? Programs like Live let us get down to repositioning actual phrases. It's "Live" remixing.

So in that sense its Live, but its still not Live like a band, but I'd wager that few electronic performances really are. Everything is presequenced to some degree, be it your own stuff or not.

[module]

some good replys & ideas here.

but i fail to see why everything has to turn to slaggin others.



it will make no difference in the world to my production what anyone says. i was just interested to her what other ppl have to say.

its great that so many ppl have their own way of workin, but what is with all the mouthing at other ppl ?

many ppl here would be well served to spend more time actually makin music as opposed to slandering other ppl about it.

[Jay Pace]

Its all good mate.
Some people have strong opinions about stuff, and this is just how they express themselves.

Its all friendly though. You'll get used to it ;)

[stjohn]

i think assplanck was being general witht the f off or die thing....

i think his Ma sampled him when he was a kid and he's never got over it since!!1

[dan the acid man]

Its all good mate.
Some people have strong opinions about stuff, and this is just how they express themselves.

Its all friendly though. You'll get used to it ;)

yeah, this one hasn't got too personal, like a few posts have done in the past.

[RDR]

**** it then..

Dan is a wanker.

ows that for personal south yorkshire nancy boy!

:lol:

[dan the acid man]

at least i dont wear womens underwear like you :lol:

[Jay Pace]

Purely for comfort reasons?

I'm feeling that mate.

[dan the acid man]

:lol: :lol:

what, you like the discomfort of that lacy thong chaifing your gonads............erm, not that i'd know about that or owt :oops: :paranoid:

[Jay Pace]

I like my buttocks and bollocks being spread....

Taxi!

[RDR]

I like my buttocks and bollocks being spread....

Taxi!

Yes...

You do.

www.jaypacespreads.com

[RDR]

at least i dont wear womens underwear like you :lol:

No...

You wear them so much better than me.

[dan the acid man]

why thanks...................erm.......oh sh*t :oops:

[Scott Kemix]

make your own loops, lazy motherfunkies

[rhythmtech]

make your own loops, lazy motherfunkies

i do... but they seem to go around in circles!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Scott Kemix]

make your own loops, lazy motherfunkies

i do... but they seem to go around in circles!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

They do dont they, but when you press stop......they stop :lol:

[module]

Its all good mate.
Some people have strong opinions about stuff, and this is just how they express themselves.

Its all friendly though. You'll get used to it ;)


dude... i been using this board on & off for 2-3 years under different names... i jus dont see why ppl are so nasty.. totally pointless.

actually, it makes for 99% of the reason i aint been posting in about 7-8 months.

i mean, this thread was about loops.. then theres a small trade if transvestitism... i dont care either way.. but i dont see the point. seems pretty childish to me.

others have been overtly nasty.. calling ppl 'idiots' & 'stupid c**ts' on the grounds of a difference of opinion ???

but it matters not a jot to me.. so keep on keepin on kids ;)

[acidsaturation]

Womens underwear seems to consist mainly of loops. I mean there's not much else there really is there except a small triangle.

Didn't the musicians union try and ban the mellotron for playing "recorded" sounds... this is reminind me of that nonsense now...

It is a shame when someone lifts pretty much wholesale and gets misplaced respect for it, but chaque us a son gout. The technology's there to do all sorts of things and sampling's one of them. Shame not to use it if you got it..?

[massplanck]

meh. i got a bit thick. i was locked. i was a bit mad at this statement though

"on the other hand if you're lucky enough to have the talent and patience to create everything from scratch then fair play."

I'd cut shit from DVD's films etc.. door creakin, cats shittin that kind of shit etc but as far i'm concerned sampling from techno to make techno isnt very techno. k?

[rhythmtech]

meh. i got a bit thick. i was locked. i was a bit mad at this statement though

"on the other hand if you're lucky enough to have the talent and patience to create everything from scratch then fair play."

I'd cut shit from DVD's films etc.. door creakin, cats shittin that kind of shit etc but as far i'm concerned sampling from techno to make techno isnt very techno. k?

y did me saying that make you angry? not every one has got the talent or patience, i know i dont! if i cant make a breakbeat myself, i use other sources and mangle them as best i can. theres no shame in admitting that. thats why i use this forum, to try learn how to do it. ... if i did have the talent i'd have probably had a whole load of releases by now.

[stjohn]

every does have the patience tho....... you just have to sit it out. and you thank yourself for it afterwards man, deffo!!

[stjohn]

you do have the patience though, everyone does, you just have to do it. and if you know youve put the work in youll reap the rewards too, and feel alot better about what you are doin IMO

[stjohn]

****in bleep

[dan the acid man]

you can have alot of fun making loops, just sit down and write a few to listen back to and use when required

[rhythmtech]

what about lifting a groove from someone else? anyone any ideas on that?

[dan the acid man]

how do you mean, like the note patterns

[rhythmtech]

no, the actual groove.. the placement of the notes.
acid pro has a "groove-lift" function - where you lift the groove, keep the swing but put in your own notes.

[dan the acid man]

i've never felt the need to do that, nor would i want to, most of the fun i get out of making my piss poor music is to get my own patterns going

[rhythmtech]

just wondering. its something thats been done for years. a lot of non-electronic producers have done it too. they like a bassline but write their own notes but the note placement is the same.

[module]

k...


what about the latest Bissmire & Bam Bam 12 on 50Hz ? every one of the 5 tracks has a previously used sample.. vocal cuts from old jack records and (most lazy of all) the Rush vocal from Right On Up...

now, by what has been said so far, this is lazy, weak & cheeky.

personally, i was very dissapointed, but what do you guys think ?


to be fair, i did myself use the Rush vocal for ONE live show.. but it was mangled in the track with the start & end loop points being chopped until it was a constant tone.

as for the Ignacio (steve rachmad) track on Music Man, i think its a well placed sample used very well in a great track.. amazing bassline...




again, great input ppl.. lets keep on topic & leave the underwear for 'er indoors ;)

[massplanck]

what about lifting a groove from someone else? anyone any ideas on that?

why dont you want you be youself?

[rhythmtech]

what about lifting a groove from someone else? anyone any ideas on that?

why dont you want you be youself?

what is your problem mate? if you dont want to join in a discussion without dissing people dont bother. i do what i do - you really dont need to concern yourself with why i do anything.

this has nothing to do with being myself. i'm asking a question about a function in a sequencer and if anyone had any ideas on it. how you figured that it means i dont want to be myself, i dont know. you've made it blatantly clear what you think of sampling/looping/whatever, so please leave the rest of us that are enjoying the discussion to it.

[massplanck]

jesus.

I just dont get this whole concept of no patience and 'lifting' & 'hijacking' stuff from someone else buzz. Its a discussion and if you are gonna say stuff like that dont expect people on a discussion forums to agree with everything you say.

*mOST* people here get a buzz out of actually creatings everything from scratch in their heads and with their hands i'd imagine.. Thats not to say samples + wavs from here and there arent used but wouldnt agree with the whole " throwing loops about the place to enhance the overall product is ok in my book"view of yours.

If you want to make subtle rythmns behind a new track of yours why not just sample an old or unfinished track of your own and do your thing with recycle & a low pass filter. Same difference except its all your own.

[rhythmtech]

If you want to make subtle rythmns behind a new track of yours why not just sample an old or unfinished track of your own and do your thing with recycle & a low pass filter. Same difference except its all your own.

i do.

and believe me, i have no problem with people disagreeing with me but "why dont you want to be yourself" is not voicing an opinion and dont get me started on the abuse you came out with earlier. samplers/loop players are there for a reason. if i choose to make use of them thats MY choice and i certainly dont wanna listen to this kinda crap from one narrow minded person because of it.

obviously you have a strong belief in creating "everything" yourself and thats your own choice but to be honest, you're living in a world where sampling is very very commonplace. look at "the streets" "KLF" "primal scream"... jesus, even the verve were at it. The sampler has become an instrument in its own right and used creativly, can be very very effective. i know that if someone used a loop from one of my tracks in a creative way then i'd no longer consider it my loop.

maybe you just view a sampler in a differant way. but please try not to get aggro with me because i choose a differant opinion.

[rhythmtech]

Thats not to say samples + wavs from here and there arent used but wouldnt agree with the whole " throwing loops about the place to enhance the overall product is ok in my book"view of yours.



also, if you're going to quote me please use it within the context it was meant.

in that case i was refering to an ableton dj/live set. ie full tracks/loops from tracks & seperate instrument parts.

its very easy to quote people here while at the same time misrepresenting them.

[massplanck]

If you want to make subtle rythmns behind a new track of yours why not just sample an old or unfinished track of your own and do your thing with recycle & a low pass filter. Same difference except its all your own.

i do.

and believe me, i have no problem with people disagreeing with me but "why dont you want to be yourself" is not voicing an opinion and dont get me started on the abuse you came out with earlier. samplers/loop players are there for a reason. if i choose to make use of them thats MY choice and i certainly dont wanna listen to this kinda crap from one narrow minded person because of it.

obviously you have a strong belief in creating "everything" yourself and thats your own choice but to be honest, you're living in a world where sampling is very very commonplace. look at "the streets" "KLF" "primal scream"... jesus, even the verve were at it. The sampler has become an instrument in its own right and used creativly, can be very very effective. i know that if someone used a loop from one of my tracks in a creative way then i'd no longer consider it my loop.

maybe you just view a sampler in a differant way. but please try not to get aggro with me because i choose a differant opinion.

ok sorry for getting aggro. i'm having my beer-iod due to christmas. ;)

whats the whole point of this argument then? Can we use samples in techno? :eh:

If the verve were sampling oasis i'd have a problem.. same goes if goldie started sampling roni size & mark eg started sampling adam beyer. I think sampling techno to make techno isnt very bright. Especially when you dont let people know whose samples/loops they are and how much 'creativity' has gone into it. The verve,klf & primal scream use ONE specfic well known sample per tune\album (usually light years removed from their own sound\genre) and would create a unique song around it & then credit the artist on the sleeve. Do you credit artists? Chances are you could be playing a live gig people would come up and say that sounded great and walk away with knowing that all you did was chop up a few marco lenzi records and filter them. I'm not saying you do this but whose to know if thats your stance?

[massplanck]

Thats not to say samples + wavs from here and there arent used but wouldnt agree with the whole " throwing loops about the place to enhance the overall product is ok in my book"view of yours.



also, if you're going to quote me please use it within the context it was meant.

in that case i was refering to an ableton dj/live set. ie full tracks/loops from tracks & seperate instrument parts.

its very easy to quote people here while at the same time misrepresenting them.

what i quoted means the same as what you said below. except this time you were talking about your own productions. And then you tell us that 'everyone' generally does it.

"every one generally does it. i often rob loops and use them in my own productions. as long as you dont use it in the same context the original track uses and try to disguise it and make it your own, i dont see it as a problem"

i'm not getting think you do have a weird view.

[massplanck]

anyway i fold. i'm off to sample myself.

[rhythmtech]

[quote="massplanck"] Do you credit artists? quote]

i do credit artists. if you look in the producers forum, i have credited any artist i've used a loop/sample from.

[massplanck]

Ok you are a remixer or something. You put a kick over si begg tune in response to all the people slagging the schranz bootlegs. I dunno. Do what you wanna do but its personally not my cuppa tea or normal.

[rhythmtech]

Ok you are a remixer or something. You put a kick over si begg tune in response to all the people slagging the schranz bootlegs. I dunno. Do what you wanna do but its personally not my cuppa tea or normal.

no i didn't "You put a kick over si begg tune in response to all the people slagging the schranz bootlegs" i did it because i wanted to see if i could do a bootleg that sounded good. if you listened to it you would hear a lot mare than just a kick has been added. also i have my own productions posted, try having a listen to them first b4 deciding who/what is normal.

[dan the acid man]

ok lets stop this from getting into a two way personal argument guys.

at the minute its not too bad. i think its been quite a healthy discussion, with healthy debate on both sides, but the past few posts are edging towards personal arguments

[module]

ok lets stop this from getting into a two way personal argument guys.

at the minute its not too bad. i think its been quite a healthy discussion, with healthy debate on both sides, but the past few posts are edging towards personal arguments

bang on dan.. good show :)

personally, i think mass is being a bit pointy.. theres no right or wrong here. jus opinion. and whilst i may not agree with them all, i certainly take them on board & respect them. well, no harm done is there :razz:


i have, and will continue to, lift loops. for example.. i have taken L7, Neds Atomic Dustbin & NIN (to name but a few) and sliced & diced them into techno trax. and most times ive let ppl hear them, they have no idea what i sampled. ive also lifted loops from house records & mashed them into 8 beat loops of noise. ive taken dnb loops & slowed them & pitched them up in key & made growling loops. and tbh, i think its jus as creative as programming Reaktor with the same old presets via Cubase ;)

i agree jus lifting 4 beats untreated & using them as a basis for your track IS lazy, but isnt that what remixes have become ? actually, thats another thread lol



heres another.... pete (a mate of mine known as slavestudios before he got banned lol) put up 100 free loops. he made them, posted them & gave them away. and there are ppl using them. which has put the smile on petes face.. hell, ive used them for Ableton sets & it got him grinning.. he really buzzes off it knowing ppl are digging his loops. so, is this ok ? i think it is.. but i would say that.. hes a mate :roll:

anyhoo, keep it up pppl... top thread & no mistake :cheese:

[eyeswithoutaface]

i think there's a bit of over-reaction in this thread. Just taking a loop right out of an existing record and plonking it in ur work and calling it your own is just plaing wrong. Chop it up, edit it, build the track around the loop by all means but not crediting the original artist or mentioning where the loop came from is wrong. There's the whole moral issue of course, some people think nothing of taking a loop of someone else's work and just sticking it in their own rather prominently and not batting an eyelid at calling it their own work. There is evidence of this on the market of course, it's not unfair to mention the whole skulltunes facade because everyone knows about it anyway.

Pete's loop's are a great example, because he made them solely for people to use, and i use pete as an example because i used his loops in a few tracks which ended up getting taken for release. The first was the "A Body To Jack" track which Glenn took for Template, it was a track i worked up out of pete's loop's and my own track parts such as the percussions and kick and my production work, so it was a straight collab in my eyes and it went down as such, Scott Gray and Pete Donaldson, which was only fair. Another is a track on an ep i have coming up on advanced, where ive used 2 of pete's loops in a track, but its not a colab, as the loop's arent as prominent and it's a solo ep, but i have given him a big thanks on the record, which is only fair, and Pete's more than happy with this

bottom line is, it's up to people to make their own mistakes when it comes to sampling, you know when your doing a track using other loops/loop sources wether or not your overstepping the mark, its just some dont bother to step back

[massplanck]

well said eyes. mr rhythmtech i apologise but still hold the view that YOU CAN make better loops or sounds than those you try and sample. And by doing that you might well be 10 times more satisfied with yourself for perservering.

anyway. i dunno if you have gathered i like *pure* machines & noises.. sometimes i feel *computer* sampling\looping etc has turned techno into a big huge ball of muck with lots weird arms & legs sticking out of it.

Then again. I'm all alone on this.

Aplogies again.

[massplanck]

ok. i dunno.i thought the whole point of making music was to expliciatlllitiatsiality express yourself. I dont want to have someones elses haircut or sample some1 elses *feelings* or ex[pression} to express myself. Its ok i suppose of you are looking for a few sounds to make a tune, but i'd get more out of screaming into a microphone about my personal demons & trashing my machines against a wall than by rearranging some one elses work.

Maybe thats what techno or whatever its called is missing these days.

[massplanck]

actually sometimes i think i'm in right forum at all at all.

[massplanck]

i meant *not* :clown:

[Miromiric]

the whole point of music is to get records out and get more bookings.

[Miromiric]

:clown:

[massplanck]

the whole point of music is to get records out and get more bookings.

:terminator:


luka i love you even if you are a serb.

[massplanck]

no offense to serbs btw.

[massplanck]

PS: Did you know that bosnians are 10% more likely to sample croats then slovenians. ****ed up world.

[dan the acid man]

actually sometimes i think i'm in right forum at all at all.

of course you're in the right forum you numpty :cheese:

any forum is bound to have a variety of people with different views on things, i suppose thats what makes them interesting.

Nick McCabe once said in an interview (ex guitarist of the verve)

The key to music is create like a child and edit like a scientist. I've been living my life to that! You have your fun and then you apply hindsight to it.

[dan the acid man]

actually sometimes i think i'm in right forum at all at all.

of course you're in the right forum you numpty :cheese:

any forum is bound to have a variety of people with different views on things, i suppose thats what makes them interesting.

Nick McCabe once said in an interview (ex guitarist of the verve)

The key to music is create like a child and edit like a scientist. I've been living my life to that! You have your fun and then you apply hindsight to it.

[massplanck]

i dunno if i am dan. for the last 2 years mr Itoh has had the piss ripped out of him on this forum for *sampling* various techno records on releases yet this sort of stuff seems fine for a BOA member to do, or at least for them not get pulled up on it, without someone calling for restraint. I cant stand having lot of little yellow folders with the emotions of others who have sampled the emotions of others, on hand ready to fire into a program that everyone else uses. And then have to talk about it never mind defend it.

I only hang around here because i have a big post count which makes people think i know what i'm talking about (i dont).

All i know is that i have a certain *unholy* bond with sound and if outside forces ie (everyone else) start upsetting the order of things in my own little ****ed up head i'm most likely gonna freak out and defend it and leave BOA in a big huff and lots of smoke.

Respect 2. Slavik/Sunil/Luka the Serb/Teh Divide/G/Dan the Acid Man/Traxx/Dirty/Aratron/Mr Eg/SummerofSam/Jay Pace/Si/TechMouse/Dodgy & RorySt/Mistah Wedding DJ & all the funny ****ers.

Massplanck is dead. Long live his mystical biscuit tin bashing psedonoymn

[dan the acid man]

like i said in the other thread you started, just keep doing what you're doing, believe in what you're doing and have fun in what you're doing, it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks really, your creating your own sound, love it and live it.

oh, and dont go leaving this place either

[module]

i dunno if i am dan. for the last 2 years mr Itoh has had the piss ripped out of him on this forum for *sampling* various techno records on releases yet this sort of stuff seems fine for a BOA member to do, or at least for them not get pulled up on it, without someone calling for restraint. I cant stand having lot of little yellow folders with the emotions of others who have sampled the emotions of others, on hand ready to fire into a program that everyone else uses. And then have to talk about it never mind defend it.

I only hang around here because i have a big post count which makes people think i know what i'm talking about (i dont).

All i know is that i have a certain *unholy* bond with sound and if outside forces ie (everyone else) start upsetting the order of things in my own little **** up head i'm most likely gonna freak out and defend it and leave BOA in a big huff and lots of smoke.

Respect 2. Slavik/Sunil/Luka the Serb/Teh Divide/G/Dan the Acid Man/Traxx/Dirty/Aratron/Mr Eg/SummerofSam/Jay Pace/Si/TechMouse/Dodgy & RorySt/Mistah Wedding DJ & all the funny ****.

Massplanck is dead. Long live his mystical biscuit tin bashing psedonoymn


:lol:

bonkers man.. totally bonkers :lol:

[massplanck]

not bonkers just paraletically drunk.

anyways laters dudes. Its bloody hard getting banned these days, i'd better take a sabbatical before i get made into a mod or even worse an action figure for sale on the BOA internet-store.

[The Divide]

not bonkers just paraletically drunk.

anyways laters dudes. Its bloody hard getting banned these days,

Tell me about it, I have been trying to get banned for ages and no luck

Theres an alternative tho, press the lost password button and get it to randomly renerate a new password, when you get it emailed to you delete it

Keeps me off teh board a bit :eyes:

[Mindful]

your all full of shit and much too vocal on here for your own good

[Mindful]

howdo i know this?
by the amount i havedrunk and becuse you all say more fallaball stuff than me so you obviously spend more time on here than is healthy and czan all spell muchbetter than this retard

[Mindful]

Massplank, stop talking rubbish, your one of the coolest members on here (even if you did miss me off your list you ****

[Mindful]

oh bolloks, happy newyear

[Traxx]

Gof bless the good ship massplank & all those who sail in her.