Trying to be different

[MARKEG]

You know something. Recently, whenever I'm in the studio, i just feel like i hate anything that sounds the same to anything else. And also anything I've done before. But I also realise, how the hell am i gonna bang our sound out there? I'm in a total nightmare. Has anyone been in this situatiion b4??

??????????????????????????????????

[Ritzi Lee]

Yes Mark I had the same feeling a year ago.
And I have a solution for you. Go back to the hardware.
It really makes a difference. There's more to explore in new sounds and freakinezz.
Yesterday I was at the audio shop checking out some new synths.
And boy oh boy do I feel happy again. These guys in the hardware business never stood still with developing and evolving sounds...

I wouldn't say ban all your plugins and digital shit. Just combine it with the goods. And ofcourse don't rush it. Take a walk outside. Catch the inspiration from your environment. Just life!

[MARKEG]

thanks man.. i appreciate you saying this. but me and chrissi ARE all hardware and digital. i respect totally what you're saying. 1/2 of what i do is outboard. this is not an issue, it's about the music and trying to be different. but i have something from you here. perhaps we need to go 3/4 outboard????

hmmm
.. this is very interesting topic imo....

[messyfuture]

i'm in the same sort of boat here, i use alot of outboard and just recently upgraded to sx3. The computer side of the studio is now being used alot more than when i was using vst5.

I think my major problem at the moment tho is human interaction. I have so much to do what with loading the samplers and all the other fiddly bits that have to be done, it sometimes takes away from being creative

I really miss having someone to bounce ideas of and who has a reasonable knowledge of hardware and production skills to be able to say, change it like this or have you ever done this with a loop. But finding people that you can get on with and work together with is a hard task sometimes too and can slow down the whole process even more.

I think what i'm trying to say is that to make a new sound or one at least that your happy with is that we need to interact more and have sessions that are not just writing tracks but noodling about and trying to see how far we can push things

does any of this make any sense :scratch:

[Ritzi Lee]

thanks man.. i appreciate you saying this. but me and chrissi ARE all hardware and digital. i respect totally what you're saying. 1/2 of what i do is outboard. this is not an issue, it's about the music and trying to be different. but i have something from you here. perhaps we need to go 3/4 outboard????

hmmm
.. this is very interesting topic imo....

Totally understand you now man.
3/4 outboard is not a bad idea.. The only time i'm using audio tracks from my computer is just for extra sample purposes just like the oldschool way of working. The last track I made, I didn't arranged it. Just played and recorded live. (not really something you'll do everytime)

Something about music. I totally understand you want to do different things. The only problem is that this is something random. If you'll find something new you're a lucky guy. Or else you just have to make nice music, not for being different and original, but just to have satisfaction in your being. Original tunes and stuff will come for sure. It's just a matter of time. Just enjoy. :)

[module]

jus go nuts with routing.. run shit where it aint supposed to go. £2000 synths thru a £25 guitar peedle or mic yur cat into an Electribe.. filed recordings are great.

ive made the wierdest sounds jus using Reason 1 with the Redrum & fx only by going nuts with CV routing.

limit yourself to crap setups & battle to make good shit happen

[acidsaturation]

Limiting yrself to crap setups can be sooooooooooooo liberating. I've recently doen a couple of gigs where there was no way I could take loadsa stuff down - did one with just the electribe synth and sampler and a TR707 shoved through a bizarre £25 XIX rack effects box I got in Soundcontrol. Also deliberately didn't practice the set as a whole so it was quite fluid. And y'konw what - it worked. And gave me a whole new set of ideas, the best bit of which is I'm getting towards having a stock of tunes I can do 3 versions of, depending on how much kit I want to lug about: An Acid version, a hard minimal version, and a full on hard dance/techno version.

I'm also trying to ditch software at the moment as everything was sounding a bit clinical ans I just started being right lazy in terms of throwing in loops when I should have written something.

It's frustrating in that it takes a while to set up - And I reckon until I can afford a bigger/better mixer I'm gonna have to go back to software to mixdown finished versions of the live ideas. But I've gone bvack to using my RM1-x to sequence - there's a lot of power there and lots of room for experimentation.

And trying to use different sounds - been mucking about with guitars and sitars and wierd stuff - kind of like PWEI or Senser turned into 160bpm techno. Getting some very refreshing ideas thats almost a blend of techno/psy/thrash...

Only major problem now is trying to work out a design for some kind of casing that I can lift things out of the bedroom studio in blocks to take to gigs... ...and that I am very soon going to have to find a bigger house!!!

[mattboyslim]

i think TRYING to be different is the problem. creavtivity is something that should flow, not be forced.
of course, by labelling ourselves 'techno' we are following a trend of sorts no matetr how you look at it

[module]

i think TRYING to be different is the problem. creavtivity is something that should flow, not be forced.



YESSSSSS

that is sooo true. ive been of this opinion from day one & have never seen someone else quote it. respect dude :rambo:

[MARKEG]

i think TRYING to be different is the problem. creavtivity is something that should flow, not be forced.
of course, by labelling ourselves 'techno' we are following a trend of sorts no matetr how you look at it

exactly see what you're saying BUT you said the problem in your last sentence. we are in techno. i don't want to follow a pattern but i do cause that's techno. but it's not. it's a very hard genre to try to create isnt it - if you're not asking questions and trying to be different then you're not really being techno. but then you're creating a 4/4 kick with hi hats, so you're just as bad as a churner. i dunno man, i think it's how you look at it and your mindset. as long as you're asking questions, that's all good.

i like the idea of going super minimal. you know what i might do. i might look around for a cool hardware sequencer and ditch the clinicalness of software ones. then record the results on nice DAT tape and then put that into something like ableton, tighten it up slightly but not too much, and then see what happens. perhaps whilst everyone is going super tight with timing, billlions of tracks and loops, it might be interesting to try it the other way and then tighten up just to the right extent where it is acceptable.

i dunno. just speaking out loud really. ok another sunday night rambling :)

[MARKEG]

hmmm there's two really useful ways this thread could go.

1) a discussion about whether or not it's good to force difference
2) a discussion of ideas to break out of the usual routine, such as going super minimal etc etc.


i quite like the idea of no 2!!! so come on, let's shoot some wierd and wonderful combinations of things that you feel would be good to do!!!!

[ReakZ]

its funny thing with that minimal wave consuming lots of peeps
i think the main reason is that they want to do something different but look to the funny part masses turned into minimal do they look now very different ?? guess not :lol:
maybe am backward person but i really like that recent dance techno with a bit of industrial and dark soundz from ian lehman or the divide
havent heard such techno before :) and Mark maybe u should have a break or smth to get rid of those thoughts like everything is beeing very familiar in a bad way, everybody has those good and bad days heheh :techno:

[rhythmtech]

i'm thinkin the way to go is ultra-maximum. really show your musical talents in techno but at the same time keep it "techno". i'm really gettin into the idea of lots of synths playin off each other and creating a listening expeerience aswell as a dancing one.

[mattboyslim]

i gota agree with the getting caught up in minimal thing. it seems like a whole other world from the techno you might be used to, but once there you assess it and its not like you've made too much of a switch and hay ho, everyones talking minimal all of a sudden.

if you're really set on being different mark, i'd recommend the routing your shit like crazy approach. aphex twin style. just leaving randomly patched synths and effects recording for hours, while you go crazy with controllers. don't look to a particular genre, just get right in there and make something new. someones gota do it

[fresh_an_funky_design]

the other day i started a breakbeat tune, which i go about very differently to a techno tune, then i reworked all the midi to a more techno format. This process has resulted in quite an original tune.
maybe have a go at doing that.

But i agree creativity cant be forced, just be open minded and dont think u cant do something cos its not 'techno'

[MARKEG]

if you're really set on being different mark, i'd recommend the routing your shit like crazy approach. aphex twin style. just leaving randomly patched synths and effects recording for hours, while you go crazy with controllers. don't look to a particular genre, just get right in there and make something new. someones gota do it

i'm f*kin feelin this man.

:thumbsup:

[module]

if you're really set on being different mark, i'd recommend the routing your shit like crazy approach. aphex twin style. just leaving randomly patched synths and effects recording for hours, while you go crazy with controllers. don't look to a particular genre, just get right in there and make something new. someones gota do it

i'm f*kin feelin this man.

:thumbsup:

exactly man.. pick one piece of kit & jus run it into the ground with Ableton hooked up for the looping.

get an old Roland & take everything from it.. hats, bass, synths..

do something that jus ****s your usual routine right up the arse

[module]

or pick a commercial dance tune you hate & jus cut the ass of it... pull it to bits & make it work

[RDR]

Using ableton like this is exactly how i do things, pick a synth, get recording and choose the best bits only. 1000bars minimum.

Also, not wishing to sound picky - but if you listen to other peoples music you will only ever become them, in some twisted for or another.

If you choose to become original you MUST ignore the work of others. Turn OFF your decks, radio, t.v, internet, front door and let the music come from inside YOU not the others inside. (n.b. i am NOT skitso.... yes i am... are we?... i think so... oh, now theres a turn up, whos ordering the pizza this time....)

[Evil G]

creativity can't be negative. if you try not to sound like something, you just run to the opposite of whatever it is, and by so doing, you end up including the thing you were trying to avoid.

"i don't want to be like a christian, so i'll be a satanist." result is that you are still thinking about all the same things, just in a different light.

i think that to truly sound different, you have to just make whatever you feel like, and don't worry about what anyone else is doing.

[dirty_bass]

I just make lots of music that isn`t techno, and listen to lots of stuff. I keep learning loads, and I constantly have fresh ideas.
I don`t try to make tehcno any more.
I just make what I make, and sometimes it techno, if not, I don`t care, I carry on with whatever it is and let it live it`s own life.
Sometimes I`ll be making something, and try to incorporate the same feelings and power of techno, but I never try to force anything any more.
Equipment be damned too, a bad workman blames his tools, it all comes from the creative mind, all you need to do is freshen your mind with new ideas, and maybe kill some old preconceptions about the format techno should take.

Too many people sit down and try to make techno. The process of trying to make techno instantly loads you with preconceptions, if you just try to make music that you can dance too, the techno attitude will come through if it`s in you.
Even worse, too many people sit down, and every tune they make they think of as a release.
Man, more often than not I just make music for the sake of it. For the fun of it. The process of raw creation, no expectations, just grab an emotion and run with it.


Damn I`m pretencious. :doh:

Where`s my beret?

:newstyle:

[tekara]

This is a very interesting topic.

Actually ive been hit with a month of writers block myself. And its come to my conclusion that the reason why i cant get shit done anymore is simply because I HAVE TOO MUCH TO PLAY WITH. I used to make way better tracks when i only had cubase, a sampler, and one hard synth. Now i get overwhelmed by technology, with so many VST's, different kind of gear. Its very easy for me to get lost in the midst of this technology.

I find myself fiddling around with a synth, then telling myself "ohh that sounds like shit. I wonder how it will sound if i use this other plugin".....this mentality has gone on for the past month and i simply have got nothing done.

So i think what Ritzi said about turning off all the plugins and using a hard synth and going back to the basics is a really good idea.....sometimes having nothing is having everything i reckon

[Dustin Zahn]

suggestions:

1. Buy a laptop, grab some software and get out of the studio. Sometimes sitting in the same room every day doing the same thing will kill you inside.
2. Don't force it. Just make what you enjoy. If you're not feeling what comes out or it doesn't push the envelope enough...maybe it just isn't meant to be at the moment. I see where I want to be (and WILL be) as a producer in the future. For me to get to that point is going to take a lot of time, but I'm not trying to rush it.
3. like db said, listen to other music and develop new influences. take something you like about a style of music and make it yours. For instance, I just finished up an EP for Audio Assault. With those tracks I took influences from a lot of various styles of music. I took the birmingham influence, but I didn't want to make another clone to file under Jaxx tracks, so I took what I felt gave the music its edge and left the rest. Then I took some of my favorite elements of experimental/IDM music and worked into the background instead of relying on compressed bass or conga loops. For a breakbeat-ish track, I wanted a massive beat for it that had a lot of weight to the bass. I looked to influential music that focused heavily on bass, from DNB to Prodigy to hip hop, I took what I liked and left hte rest. I used some programming tricks from the trendy minimal techno and replaced it with dynamic and metallic sounds. Finally, I added in some ambient music influence for good measure and to keep things a bit twisted.
4. Slow it down. I can use my audio assault ep as an example for this one as well. For the main track I wrote and recorded it in the lower 120s bpm. After I recorded it initally, I reopened back it Ableton and bumped it up to 134. Why? At slower speeds (and faster), you can get a good funk and swing that you can't measure up to in the 130-145 bpm bracket. There is more room to breathe in between the kick drums and it doesn't seem so linear and straight forward. Take DNB for instance, there are some sick basslines and production techniques that you just can't pull off at 138bpm. So create the techniques beforehand, and use amazing technology to speed it up or slow it down to put into techno.

[module]

u know what ?

get married.. yep. watch 5 projects stop dead in the water cos you spend your time looking at f**king rings & ties & chicks shoes..

if your really THAT stuck, go get married. see in 3 momths time, you'll wave goodbye to block.



i'm for the off on wednesday & see since i asked the girl (17th december) ive gotten nothing done. noting. outside of a dozen 4 beat loops ? nowt.

i cant wait to get back to makin shit

[eyeswithoutaface]

just **** it all, get a tin can, and a wooden spoon, and just laugh your tits off for hours

[xfive]

just **** it all, get a tin can, and a wooden spoon, and just laugh your tits off for hours

Now *THAT* is minimal.

[eyeswithoutaface]

exactly! :techno:

[AcidTrash]

Try making a style of music you don't like.

My best acid techno comes when I attempt psytrance (which I can't stand)

[The Teknoist]

i hate pretty much all my stuff after about a week and get really low about not being at the level i want to be at. I know it takes time and that other people must like my tracks to buy them but still, it makes me cringe listening to them sometimes.

I dont try to sound like anyone though and i dont try to not sound like anyone, i just write what comes out yknow.. i think trying to do or avoid doing something can be a bad thing sometimes.. not all the time though.

[tocsin]

You know something. Recently, whenever I'm in the studio, i just feel like i hate anything that sounds the same to anything else. And also anything I've done before. But I also realise, how the hell am i gonna bang our sound out there? I'm in a total nightmare. Has anyone been in this situatiion b4??

??????????????????????????????????

Only for about the past year. A relationship and location kinda kept me there. Hopefully getting a new place tonight to finally put an end to this spell. However, in the few moments over the past year or so where I've written some tracks that I actually liked, I did it by kinda giving up on the idea that I was going to write something completely different than anything I was doing before off the cuff. It just wasn't happening, for whatever reason. So, I just started screwing around mixing types of sounds together which I generally hadn't done before. Rather, in the past, the sounds would have been separated to their own respective genre type tracks. By taking things that initially didn't work together all that hot, and tweaking them out to work with each other, I got what was, in my opinion, sounds that I had not done before which made it enjoyable and worth the while. It's also opened the doors up to at least two new collaboration projects, one which just performed for the first time last Saturday.

So, I dunno. Having been where you are for awhile now, and having also been there before in the past, if you just aren't writing anything that sounds new that makes you happy, just try throwing anything and everything you write, or have written, together and see how it sounds. Sometimes, it creates a completely new direction for you.

[danielmarshall]

The problem is obvious: you're not taking enough drugs.

Seriously though, I think every producer goes through the: "Move aside Mr. May" <--> "I loathe techno" cycle... some more polarised than others, but one thing I've realised is that if you consciously force yourself to not produce when you aren't very inspired you'll be far more productive with the time when you are.

[loopdon]

dunno:

- what tocsin said: mix genres from within techno/ differnt genres alltogether
- produce sth. quite different, say hip-hop even if you don't like it
- slow it down without needfully going mnml
- do sth. recording 'real elements', a band perhaps
- add 'more musical' elements
- boil up some really freaked out synth sounds, randomize the settings on a synth and see when you get sth. nice
- suck up inspiration from sources as nature, art, literature -->
get yourself into a different mindset alltogether
- do tech, but don't use electronic samples, do the shizzle with real instruments samples
- take a break, come back when you are reloaded :shock:

[man_d]

And trying to use different sounds - been mucking about with guitars and sitars and wierd stuff - kind of like PWEI or Senser turned into 160bpm techno. Getting some very refreshing ideas thats almost a blend of techno/psy/thrash...

Aw, PWEI-zation! ;)

[thetonewrecka]

It's obviously the color of all the cables!

If you simply go out and purchase yellow cables for all your left channel audio runs, and green cabels for all the right channel audio runs you be feeling relieved that they are sorted.

If a synth isn't doing it properly, make it sleep outside for a night like the dog he is. You'll see a new attitude the next day when you open the door and let it back in.

I guess this doesn't make sense, but it doesn't really have to at all.

[The Divide]

Zahn said something about enjoying yourself, thats the key I think. Too many people are trying too hard these days, its when you try too hard you end up feeling desperate when things don’t work, ive been in that situation and it lead me to go for a folder of sampled loops which already sound good and had to change them over so slightly to avoid been caught by the sample police. In other words, I copped out = There are only so many ways you can cook a casserole with the same ingredients

Try running a things differently, softsynths in stand alone or build something in reaktor. Use Cubase as a sample manipulator not a sequencer and make some weird sounds and see what other weird sounds work with them. Set the tempo to 280 instead of 140, drop all preconceived ideas about how well it handles in the mix.

Take some obscure psychoactive drugs and lock yourself in the house for a good 12 hours searching for that spiritual place where you can actually see the music as a set of complex geometric shapes and waves of tiny molecules vibrating in synchronicity

[The Divide]

also change the colour of your curtains...

[MARKEG]

also change the colour of your curtains...

goood god man, you could be right! mine are a nasty shit stained cream colour at the mo. right i will go out an sort it immediately! then can make some real music instead of this creamy shit-echno i've been working on recently!

[thetonewrecka]

Tear those damn curtains down (unless you have the studio on ground level where people could see the goodies and rob you)! Write a soundtrack to what is going on outside those panes of glass.
After Jess and I moved into this new house..I was going stir crazy in the studio because of all the white walls...now they are covered with mayhem like they should be (posters, clippings, odd lights, random records, some puke stains, etc..) Makes for a nice environment.

[MARKEG]

hahahha

lov ya paul :lol:

[MARKEG]

Try making a style of music you don't like.

My best acid techno comes when I attempt psytrance (which I can't stand)

f me, i never saw this.

jesus, i can't wait to get into the studio!!!!!!!!

bring on the tudor experimental punk classical metal :lol:

[MARKEG]

no let's be right. respect everyone for such fantastic posts. obviously pushing yourself means alot to alot of you. it means alot to me too.

some nice posts here.

you dont have to purposly be different imo, but it helps to know that you're not sounding like everyone else!

i think alot of you realise where i'm tryin to go here...


much respect :)

[AcidTrash]

I just make lots of music that isn`t techno, and listen to lots of stuff. I keep learning loads, and I constantly have fresh ideas.
I don`t try to make tehcno any more.
I just make what I make, and sometimes it techno, if not, I don`t care, I carry on with whatever it is and let it live it`s own life.
Sometimes I`ll be making something, and try to incorporate the same feelings and power of techno, but I never try to force anything any more.
Equipment be damned too, a bad workman blames his tools, it all comes from the creative mind, all you need to do is freshen your mind with new ideas, and maybe kill some old preconceptions about the format techno should take.

Too many people sit down and try to make techno. The process of trying to make techno instantly loads you with preconceptions, if you just try to make music that you can dance too, the techno attitude will come through if it`s in you.
Even worse, too many people sit down, and every tune they make they think of as a release.
Man, more often than not I just make music for the sake of it. For the fun of it. The process of raw creation, no expectations, just grab an emotion and run with it.


Damn I`m pretencious. :doh:

Where`s my beret?

:newstyle:

I think thats the most sensible thing you've ever said.

[The Divide]

Ive been out of the studio since last November and now and again I have a quick fiddle around and things fall together really well. I cant ****ing wait to get back into writing again :D

Have a couple of weeks off mark. I know you work hard and obsessively in that underground bunker of yours