gate and side chain THE SAME?

[tracatak]

sounds to me like gating and side chaining are the same ...are they? or are they similar or not at all?


plus is peak controler the best way to do it in fruity loops? or is there a better plug in(s) i should try?....thanks....

:rambo:

[tocsin]

I think it really depends how you work it. Technically, a gate should mute any sound that comes in below a certain volume ceiling. Side Chain compression can be set to mute a sound when the kick hits, but certainly doesn't have to.

Conceptually, a gate does the exact opposite of a compressor. The Compressor comes into play when a sound goes above a certain level. The gate comes into play when the sound goes below a certain level.

[RDR]

gates are a great thing to get into. Some gates have a key gating function on them which allows a signal routed from a cross over from an aux on a desk to perform ducking function, some gates have a small EQ in the signal path as well

[tocsin]

Do you know of any software that has a keytriggered gate with EQ? I'd love to give that a whirl since, for a number of stuff I've done, I'd much rather use a triggered EQ than compression.

[DrewDavid]

Check out the Waves C1 or C4 - they might be what you're looking for

http://waves.com/content.asp?id=16

[RDR]

Put an EQ in the chain before your compressor thats doing the ducking. Ideally this should be on a bus.

Just a side note, its worth playing with this techique, but remember try putting some other plugins there, just to muddy the water.

What sequencer are you using?

[tracatak]

thanks 4 the tips....im using fruity loops studio 6... and reason im starting to learn...messing with lotsof plugins..waves, etc...


my next ? is

should i try one kick/sound delayed and distorted triggerd(gated) by another kick?

i dont try to confuse but im lost myself....back to the drawing board....(in a few secs it'll remind me why i fell in love with techno..and then 1 hr later im bashing the keyoard...ha!)

[RDR]

Ah fruityloops is one of the best for this trick

Here we go, try and keep up now...

The way i do this using fruityloops is..(this is the basic version)

1. Clone your kick channel and place the kick pattern on the off beat (cloned channel)
2. Send the cloned offbeat kick to FX channel 9(can be any channel, doesnt matter is 9 just to keep it out of the way)
3. On FX 9 place a Peak controller. Make sure the mute light is on - you should not be able to hear the cloned kick now
4. Drop in a droning bassline/lead etc and give it its own Fx channel, drop a balance controller on this FX channel.
5. Right click the volume dial on the balance controller.
6. Select 'internal controller' from the pop-up menu
7. Select 'Peak' from this menu, NOT LFO+PEAK or LFO
8. Start your sequencer going
9. Go back to the peak controller and raise the Tension and/or level dial (LEVEL is the wrong word here, its been a while since i used it, its the dial on the top left of the PEAK section)
10. You should then see the level meter on the peak controller pumping to the workings of the cloned kick.

When done right you should start to hear the droning sound pumping. Remember that it is pumping to the Dynamic shape of the kick. i.e, a fast transient pumping which peaks then dies away rapidly.

Other tricks...

Short sounds = short pumping
Long sounds = Long pumping
Send several different sounds to the FX channel to create complex pumping sounds.

Pumping is also obtainable by dropping a compressor on the master channel

Some settings for this compressor - threshold -5 to -10 ratio max 3.5:1 Knee hard for hard self pumping, soft for softer material, remember to bring to gain up to bring the level back up.

BTW - FFS make sure you have a decent amount of dynamics in your music, otherwise it sounds flat and dull.

[tracatak]

:clap:

wow seriously thansk for all ur time and info ...amazing

:love:

ill get back to u with any ?'s that arise

im gunan try now

[tracatak]

ok i hear it pumping....now do i place delays somewhere....distorion...compressors...etc..


also soemtimes i hit the vol um the bassline and it wont pump anymore when i tell it to PEAK with the internal controleer..it jsut wont redo it..do i have to reset soemthing or w/e...let me kwno..thanks again..w0rks great

[tracatak]

Send several different sounds to the FX channel to create complex pumping sounds.

do u mean send my hi hats to to number 9 where my peak controller is or to number 3 where i have place my bassline/lead

[findthesolution]

Ah fruityloops is one of the best for this trick

Here we go, try and keep up now...

The way i do this using fruityloops is..(this is the basic version)

1. Clone your kick channel and place the kick pattern on the off beat (cloned channel)
2. Send the cloned offbeat kick to FX channel 9(can be any channel, doesnt matter is 9 just to keep it out of the way)
3. On FX 9 place a Peak controller. Make sure the mute light is on - you should not be able to hear the cloned kick now
4. Drop in a droning bassline/lead etc and give it its own Fx channel, drop a balance controller on this FX channel.
5. Right click the volume dial on the balance controller.
6. Select 'internal controller' from the pop-up menu
7. Select 'Peak' from this menu, NOT LFO+PEAK or LFO
8. Start your sequencer going
9. Go back to the peak controller and raise the Tension and/or level dial (LEVEL is the wrong word here, its been a while since i used it, its the dial on the top left of the PEAK section)
10. You should then see the level meter on the peak controller pumping to the workings of the cloned kick.

When done right you should start to hear the droning sound pumping. Remember that it is pumping to the Dynamic shape of the kick. i.e, a fast transient pumping which peaks then dies away rapidly.

Other tricks...

Short sounds = short pumping
Long sounds = Long pumping
Send several different sounds to the FX channel to create complex pumping sounds.

Pumping is also obtainable by dropping a compressor on the master channel

Some settings for this compressor - threshold -5 to -10 ratio max 3.5:1 Knee hard for hard self pumping, soft for softer material, remember to bring to gain up to bring the level back up.

BTW - FFS make sure you have a decent amount of dynamics in your music, otherwise it sounds flat and dull.

i think i want an intel mac with bootcamp just so I can do that again.

[RDR]

By different sounds i mean vocals instead of kick... or whatever... the shape of the dynmaics of the sound dicatates how the peak operates the pumping.

Im not sure about the lack of pumping you talk about, im not there with you, doubtless you're altering a setting you shouldnt be doing, but without being there its hard dude... sorry!

remember you are dealing with dynmaics and as such any change results in change elsewhere.

Try creating a pattern with the sound that is running to the peak controller, its like placing a pattern on a pattern. Try using a filtered sound that does random shit instead of a kick drum.. nice.

[tracatak]

ok ill give it a shot...ty


basically jsut send everything to channel/fx 9 where the peak controller is placed.....NOT WHERE THE BALANCED IS PLACED...

as i result i wont hear those sousnd but i will hear it pumping different.....doi sound like i got it...

also i got ltos of delays dsitorted kicks i need to pump so do i palces those on teh balance (liek instead of a bassline) or on there own fx channel or none at all

[RDR]

The sound going to the PEAK controller dictates how it behaves... everything you want to pump up and down goes behind the balance.

Its sounds like you got it.

another tip.... try putting multiple balances in and link them to the peak controller, but alter the way the balance reacts to the incoming internal contrller data.

You could pump a delay send as well... you could pump anything..

ooohh aaahh,, pumping,... omg... oh yes, pump pump PUMP **** ME ****ME OOOH,,, OHHH!! OH YES YES YESYEYSYEYS...

aaaaah.

Sorry about that, all that talk of pumping.

[tracatak]

ok i got it sounding good i need to play with a few things and then get back to u on my next ?'s... u da man....yeah all taht pumping talk i gotta go to pumping.com..lol..jk

[dirty_bass]

This is sick.
I can smell those odours from here you dirty dirty boys.

[tracatak]

haha..

any1 know how to do a reverse gate in fruity? ... that make sense?

[RDR]

Are you talking about reverse gated reverb perhaps?

PS... i enjoyed my pump.

[tracatak]

yeah i think that is what i mean..how do i do that and is that commonly used in hard techno schranz?....i think that is exactly what i been askin for for 2 years...ok maybe 1 year..hehe..please..help..im polish..jk..im american i think that is worse...at least im from new york and not alabama..lol..jk

[RDR]

You need at short decay time on your reverb and a long pre-delay.

[RDR]

sorry, pre-delay time on the reverb...

[RDR]

Aprrox 50-100ms depending on tempo (for the pre delay)

[dirty_bass]

Yeah, essentially you need to set the pre delay to time with the offbeat.
Reverse reverb however is a different effect and probably not what you are looking for.

[RDR]

Indeed.

[tracatak]

so i added (to my kick) a decay of 2.1 sec anda predelay of 180 ms sounds good..does that mean its reverse reverb or do i gotta now REVERSE the sample?

[RDR]

here..

Go and read this my friend

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Reverb/

[tracatak]

thanks....looks good..do u thinku can make a quick loop of a kick with examples of reverse reverb or gated reverb..etc jsut to show us all what we are supposed to hear whne we do the technique right...its ok if not..jstu curious thanks...u been very helpful