Producer or Composer?

[holotropik]

Talkin about this the other day

Do you consider yourself a composer
or a producer?

There is a difference and even though
it is probably splitting hairs....

[rhythmtech]

i'd be hard pressed to call my self either!!!!!

[dirty_bass]

Musician who can produce that aspires to be a composer.

[eyeswithoutaface]

musician who can produce definately

and not many of those around at the moment unfortunately

[rhythmtech]

musician who can produce definately

and not many of those around at the moment unfortunately

man im gonna have to send you some prozac.. you're very negative lately :razz:

[eyeswithoutaface]

eh? nothing negative about it, simply truth. There are not many real musicians within techno, never have been. I dont mean someone who has a midi keyboard, im talking someone who can play the guitar to a professional standard, or the Piano to a graded standard, professional violinists etc etc

[rhythmtech]

yeah i know m8. just takin the piss!

well i guess i'm a musician whos trying to learn production then.

[holotropik]

eh? nothing negative about it, simply truth. There are not many real musicians within techno, never have been. I dont mean someone who has a midi keyboard, im talking someone who can play the guitar to a professional standard, or the Piano to a graded standard, professional violinists etc etc

Well the way I see it
Techno is different
Can have little to do with traditional music
and still be top-notch stuff.

Different language
technique
Time.

Comparing Techno to traditional forms
is negating the nature of art
and human ingenuity.

Sure if you want to write dance music
that contains guitar or piano
thats cool
But, doesnt mean that stuff written with a sampling technique
or rhythm structure isnt also great music.
rather narrow minded actually.

[holotropik]

What is understood by the term Composer?

Isnt it someone who writes music?
Whereas a produce is someone that edits and programs or polishes...

Help?

I always understood that a composer is someone who writes original music
using instruments of whatever form...

[acidsaturation]

I just use ejay

[holotropik]

Nah ejay is way to hard.
I tried to use ejay4
but
couldnt get my head around the efx...

[eyeswithoutaface]

eh? nothing negative about it, simply truth. There are not many real musicians within techno, never have been. I dont mean someone who has a midi keyboard, im talking someone who can play the guitar to a professional standard, or the Piano to a graded standard, professional violinists etc etc

Well the way I see it
Techno is different
Can have little to do with traditional music
and still be top-notch stuff.

Different language
technique
Time.

Comparing Techno to traditional forms
is negating the nature of art
and human ingenuity.

Sure if you want to write dance music
that contains guitar or piano
thats cool
But, doesnt mean that stuff written with a sampling technique
or rhythm structure isnt also great music.
rather narrow minded actually.

your totally missing the point, i wasnt comparing anything, i was simply stating the many advantages and qualities that make musicians who are working in the electronic/dance realm standout. It's pretty obvious when listening to alot of records these days who hasnt a clue about basic music theory and who does.

I wasnt saying those who are fluent in spanish guitar will be amazing techno producers, that was quite clear i think, merely stating that if a person was fluent in spanish guitar and also knew their stuff production wise, there are numerous skills that are passed over into their productions often without them even knowing it

it wasnt a confusing issue at all, so lets not try and make it so, there's no alienation or elitism going on here simply an opinion and a pretty valid one at that. The majority of techno producers, certainly the loop mongers, havent got a clue about basic scales, strtucture, timing's, cadence's etc etc and this shows, someone who does have this knowledge will no doubt have a better understanding of production as a whole

thats all ;)

[RDR]

I just enjoy writing music. Not really bothered about a label.

I love playing guitar..i love playing drums..bass and dabbling with the keyboard.. i have a grade in music theory.. i like it all..

I also like watching talented musicians.. a great joy indeed to see them.

If i never make it then ill be unhappy, but im not even sure what 'making it' actually means..

Music is an end in itself, not the method by which we learn how to be richer.

[eyeswithoutaface]

of course, money is immaterial in that sense to me. Most of the people i know with their heads screwed on support themselves outside of their music making endeavours, which is the only way id recommend to anyone getting involved in a scene right now

writing and making music is ultimately more rewarding than having a bank balance that is slightly higher than your used to.

i deem making it as achieving your own personal goals, whatever they may be. Mine is simply to be able to write and release the music that i want, without anyone impeding the process in any way shape or form. And luckily im able to do that right now, so thats cool enough, im happy :)

[RDR]

of course, money is immaterial in that sense to me. Most of the people i know with their heads screwed on support themselves outside of their music making endeavours, which is the only way id recommend to anyone getting involved in a scene right now

writing and making music is ultimately more rewarding than having a bank balance that is slightly higher than your used to.

i deem making it as achieving your own personal goals, whatever they may be. Mine is simply to be able to write and release the music that i want, without anyone impeding the process in any way shape or form. And luckily im able to do that right now, so thats cool enough, im happy :)

Right on scott. :thumbsup:

[eyeswithoutaface]

i forgot to add one of my other goals is to roundhouse kick Grace from big brother in the face whilst listening to my own records, so yeah, im nowhere near making it really!

:)

[holotropik]

of course, money is immaterial in that sense to me. Most of the people i know with their heads screwed on support themselves outside of their music making endeavours, which is the only way id recommend to anyone getting involved in a scene right now

writing and making music is ultimately more rewarding than having a bank balance that is slightly higher than your used to.

i deem making it as achieving your own personal goals, whatever they may be. Mine is simply to be able to write and release the music that i want, without anyone impeding the process in any way shape or form. And luckily im able to do that right now, so thats cool enough, im happy :)

Spot on dude ;)

[holotropik]

...and I'm just rattling on
while I wait for some new toys
....bored
c'mon Mr. Mailman!!
:)

[machina]

I was about to say something along those lines :-) y'all think about it too much... just ****ing do it and smile when it's good, and curse your lack of talent and skill when it's shite.

machina

[rounser]

I'm surprised that "hack" isn't an option. I think that most dance music producers are hacks, and I don't mean that in a derogatory or negative way at all...

[dirty_bass]

I'm surprised that "hack" isn't an option. I think that most dance music producers are hacks, and I don't mean that in a derogatory or negative way at all...

very true.
in many ways a lot of dance music contains less thought and less originality than a lot of pop music, sadly, I would say a hell of a lot of techno falls into this.

[RDR]

I'm surprised that "hack" isn't an option. I think that most dance music producers are hacks, and I don't mean that in a derogatory or negative way at all...

very true.
in many ways a lot of dance music contains less thought and less originality than a lot of pop music, sadly, I would say a hell of a lot of techno falls into this.

Removed post.

[dirty_bass]

No there is plenty of good stuff.
But techno sits in an odd position in electronic music.

It can be great when done creatively.
But also, anyone can literally make techno, just mash some percussive loops together, and wack a big kick under it.
It`s both a very complex and very simple music at the same time.

At least with some other dance music, unless you are using genre specific loops, you do have to make some effort with composition, like house or whatever.
Also production standards in techno as a whole I think are lower, overall than most genre`s.

Part of th edownside of the technology being so accessable.

[rounser]

Although I agree with you to a degree, dirty bass, allow me to play devil's advocate a bit, because I don't think it's quite that black and white:

Also production standards in techno as a whole I think are lower, overall than most genre`s.
Sturgeon's Law seems to apply to most genres though....if techno's production standards seem lower, that might be because less producers are making it than say house, and therefore there's a smaller pool of tunes with less gems in it.

At least with some other dance music, unless you are using genre specific loops, you do have to make some effort with composition, like house or whatever.
Heh....but with "literally anyone making it", that can often make things worse! Just like people get pissed off at a comedian who doesn't make them laugh, bad melodic or harmonic composition is going to get few to overlook it. There's a lot of amateur trance out there, for instance. Bad drums and you can just yawn and dance in a holding pattern and wish the DJ would play something interesting, but it's not necessarily going to drive you off the dancefloor.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think sturgeons law applies really.
In terms of what`s getting released, techno has lower production values.
I think this is in part, down to the fact that
a) There`s less money involved now.
b) There`s more of a DIY attitude.

I`m not talking about good tunes, just production values.

Drum and bass also has a more rough and ready DIY approach, but the standards overall in what gets released are again a little higher, but I put this more down to the community around it.

Personally I have reached a bizarre position in regards to producing.
I was discussing this with someone the other day, who asked me, what do you think techno needs to do to progress?

And I thought about it, and essentially, I don`t think techno has progressed musically, for about 5 years now. You can still drop old tunes and they sound as fresh as the latest releases, so why buy new tunes?
I think it`s reached a kind of saturation point in it`s current form.

I`m not even sure it needs to progress now, it`s just a type of music that has grown and reached adult hood.
I kinda laugh when people still say "underground techno". I don`t think techno is underground any more, it`s not got the fresh edge, or any, kinda, street grittyness to it any more, it`s just an established form of abstract music.
Hell, the most underground uk techno peoples, the SUF, have all got married and had kids, done the big clubs with fergie et al.
Hardly undergound anymore ey?
Rock and roll, let`s have a voulevant

As a music that has reached adulthood, I think it is time for techno to have babies, and to birth new types of music, hybrids of itself and something else.

So myself, although I strive to go forward with techno, I`m starting to realise that I may be banging my head against a brick wall.
At it`s heart techno is dance music, for nightclubs, that provides people with a form of escapism from their daily grind.
To make the music more cerebral and more experimental, and to make the audience think more, may not be what they want, in that type of environment.

So now I just make techno for fun, it`s a form of dance music, no better or worse than trance or house or happy hardcore or whatever.

What I would really like to do however, is take the more progressive, experimental side of techno, and organise gigs, at live venues, rather than night clubs. where people expect to go to listen to music, rather than be made to dance.
How I am gonna do this, and who I`m gonna do it with, I have no idea yet.

[holotropik]

hmm...
me thinks the same way.
dont know where to go next?

[holotropik]

I guess the same could be said for Rock music
or Pop music too...
A lot of the stuff coming through these genres
is very similar and cyclical
regurgitating past eras with each generation.

With Techno I am finding that the music is slowly progressing
as new technology and techniques
improve the sound quality and expressive capabilities.

And as with most music
it has a lot more to do with the personality
of the artist behind the music
and how people relate to the persona
with little knowledge or regard to quality.

Its like,
some artists I like
most people say are crap or poor quality.
But I like the raw edge of the sound
and I like the persona that goes with it.
Sure I can hear that the music is gritty
and not perfect
But
thats what I like about it....

[RDR]

What I would really like to do however, is take the more progressive, experimental side of techno, and organise gigs, at live venues, rather than night clubs. where people expect to go to listen to music, rather than be made to dance


Removed post

[dirty_bass]

No, that`s not really what I`m talking about.

[RDR]

No, that`s not really what I`m talking about.

Removed post

[RDR]

removed post

[RDR]

Removed post.

[loopdon]

i sense some bad vibrations here :paranoid:

[dirty_bass]

? not from me.

In reference to the idm thing, yeah, they do have some non club gigs and it`s cool.
But the word idm, generally covers the breakcore derived stuff.
Horrible catchword.
There aren`t really any electronica gigs about, or not enough. And this is what I would be interested in doing.
Electronic concerts.

[RDR]

I have a short fuse sometimes.. nuff said.

[holotropik]

ahhh....dont worry about it dude
your not the only one.