Where do you copyright a label name?

[Analog.1]

My record label isnt necessarily going to be a company, it will be a free label but i still dont want anyone else using the name so would like to copyright it, anyone know a good place to do this?

[soma]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

[Jay Pace]

You need to register it as a trademark I think.

http://www.companyregistrations.co.uk/trademark-registration.asp

[Si the Sigh]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

I was told that, and I do believe it's all above board.

[Jay Pace]

I think the "post it to yourself" route is only good for materials though - music, art etc

No good for a name. You can't write the name on a bit of paper and post it to yourself.

Name's need to be registered, then when and if you start trading its your registered property, and nobody else can use it. Costs though, sadly.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

that only applies in america, in the uk you have instant copyright over anything you make or create or think of.

[DannyBlack]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

I was told that, and I do believe it's all above board.

it works, its a poor mans patent. it goes to proving that you thought of the name first.

[Martin Dust]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

While this will help, it would never stand up in a court of law unless it's held by your lawyer or in a bank vault - the basic problem with this is that you've sent it to yourself and could at any point have changed the contents, ask any good lawyer. It's a bit of an Urban Myth....

m

[RDR]

Just to back up martin there.

Some banks offer deposit boxes to their customers for a fee or even for free... its best to check.

And as for the lawyer comment... spot on, "All lawyers are liars.. i am a lawyer"

Cunts.

[Martin Dust]

Haha It sad but true fella ;)

[zaalmoetlos]

i think if you release the tracks and you are the first to use that name for a label (which can be easaly checked at www.discogs.com)and the tracks have been presented to an organisation which protects the rights of musicians (like buma/stemra in Holland) you are pretty much covered i imagine

[zaalmoetlos]

or you could register the brand name at the Chamber of Commerce

[soma]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

While this will help, it would never stand up in a court of law unless it's held by your lawyer or in a bank vault - the basic problem with this is that you've sent it to yourself and could at any point have changed the contents, ask any good lawyer. It's a bit of an Urban Myth....

m

A small part of my course when at university was how to handle yourself while freelancing and this is what we were advised to do to stop people stealing ideas and work from you.

It reckon it doesn't hurt to do for a mere £4.00 registered post.

:)

[Martin Dust]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

While this will help, it would never stand up in a court of law unless it's held by your lawyer or in a bank vault - the basic problem with this is that you've sent it to yourself and could at any point have changed the contents, ask any good lawyer. It's a bit of an Urban Myth....

m

A small part of my course when at university was how to handle yourself while freelancing and this is what we were advised to do to stop people stealing ideas and work from you.

It reckon it doesn't hurt to do for a mere £4.00 registered post.

:)

You may as well buy a couple of pints because it's bad advice and isn't proof at all, unless it's held by an "official body"...

[tocsin]

The "mail to yourself method" is a hoax. DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO IT. I really wish it would die already. Problem is, it sounds logical. But, it's not accepted in courts of law.

As for the label name protection, you want a "trademark" not a copyright.

[Adey]

easy. just look up copyright and trademark on Wikipedia

basics is u need to Trademark a name and copyright the music in accordance to each market you want protection.

[Ms.Rhythm]

The "mail to yourself method" is a hoax. DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO IT. I really wish it would die already. Problem is, it sounds logical. But, it's not accepted in courts of law.

As for the label name protection, you want a "trademark" not a copyright.

This method dose work in the UK, iv just done a course in music business. the posting method tends to really only work with music that has been put onto a fixated format but its also another form of proof if you send it to your self.

my advice is to:

1. If you want to protect your own material as intellectual property you must first put your material into a fixated form, meaning that it has to be recorded onto type/CD or written onto paper, then the material has to be sent to the songwriters/creators house recorded delivery and stored in a safe place. By sending the material recorded delivery back to your own address means that you now have proof of the time and date of when that material was first made. Its also good to have afew witness's but make sure there not the type who are going to nick your idea.

2. Then i would register it as a trademark
http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/howtoapply/index.htm

that site should help you out.
hope this helps ya ;)

[Martin Dust]

This method dose work in the UK, iv just done a course in music business.

Who's teaching people this kind of rubbish, it doesn't work and never, ever has - for the last time :) it's bullshit and about as safe as putting money under your bed...

[TechMouse]

This method dose work in the UK, iv just done a course in music business.
OK, but have you actually successfully proven in a UK court that you own the copyright on something by this method?

If you haven't then your opinion and anything you learned on a course is hearsay.

Show some legal precedent.

[TechMouse]

Some actual information: http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp


However, the U.K. Patent Office has this to say on the subject in its "Claiming and Enforcing Copyright" FAQ:

How can I prove originality in my work?

Ultimately this is a matter for the courts to decide. However, it may help copyright owners to deposit a copy of their work with a bank or solicitor or send a copy of their work to themselves by special delivery (which gives a clear date stamp on the envelope), leaving the envelope unopened on its return; this could establish that the work existed at this time. (Further details of special delivery should be available at Post Offices).

Careful readers will have noted the "may help" and "could establish" in the above entry.

So, basically, it is admissable as evidence but far from conclusive.

Sending it to a solicitor or depositing in a safety deposit box is better.

Ultimately the best protection is registering the copyright with PRS / MCPS or whatever it is.

This will cost you though - but then again, as they say oop north, you don't get owt for nowt.

[TechMouse]

Secondary lesson: Don't believe everything you get told on a course.

I did a degree in Computer Science, and if I had £1 for everything I learned which subsequently turned out to be utter bollocks in a real-world context, then I could probably get some new decks.

Academics know stuff, but they're far from authoritative. What's the saying? Those who can, do...

If you want to know more about what is actually the case with UK copyright, check the patent office website (http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/indetail/copyclaim.htm). Horse's mouth and all that.

[Ms.Rhythm]

sending it to yourself via recorded delivery is just another way of having proof that you did come up with the idea first, it may or may not be acceptable in court but you should have all the proof you can get your hands on.

The prs only deal's with musical composers, writers of lyrics, publishers and owners of copyright. The MCPS is similar to the PRS yet it concentrates on collecting money from people in the UK who want to record members music onto TV and radio programmes, websites, films, cds, records, etc. MCPS also collects royalties by issuing licences to people who want to use mechanical copyright in musical works.

so if your seriouse about copyrighting your name, pay that little bit extra and have it trademarked. If you need propper advice though email or call the offical uk patent office:

Trade mark enquiries should be made to our Enquiry Unit on:

Telephone: 0845 9 500 505 (UK callers only - charged at local rate)

International callers: +44 (0)1633 813930


Minicom (text phone): 08459 222 250


Fax: +44 (0)1633 814444


E-mail: enquiries@patent.gov.uk

[dirty_bass]

For any serious legal advice in regards to music, please hit me up on msn.
I will put you in touch with my best mate, who is PHD law specialising in new media, and who writes papers for the law society concerning new media law.
He has basically said he will give free legal advice to anyone from the underground I put onto him.

so there you go, get your advice straight from someone who is active in this region of law.

[Si the Sigh]

Safe! :)

[fresh_an_funky_design]

I dunno if this will work, but it does for graphic designers when ever you do work. © all of the work and sign and date it. then send it registered post to yourself, but dont open the package.

Bobs your uncle if anyone else rips you off you can take them to court, have the mail ready open it in front of everyone. and pow job done.

just make sure you put a © and date it.

While this will help, it would never stand up in a court of law unless it's held by your lawyer or in a bank vault - the basic problem with this is that you've sent it to yourself and could at any point have changed the contents, ask any good lawyer. It's a bit of an Urban Myth....

m

A small part of my course when at university was how to handle yourself while freelancing and this is what we were advised to do to stop people stealing ideas and work from you.

It reckon it doesn't hurt to do for a mere £4.00 registered post.

:)

You may as well buy a couple of pints because it's bad advice and isn't proof at all, unless it's held by an "official body"...



definetly right there. we had a few lessons on copyright and we got told the mail thing doesn't apply in the uk

[The Overfiend]

For any serious legal advice in regards to music, please hit me up on msn.
I will put you in touch with my best mate, who is PHD law specialising in new media, and who writes papers for the law society concerning new media law.
He has basically said he will give free legal advice to anyone from the underground I put onto him.

so there you go, get your advice straight from someone who is active in this region of law.

Shahoul rules.

[eyeswithoutaface]

the mail thing definately is a load of crock. Legally. It means absolutely nothing, zilch, jack, squat etc etc. It is simply a SUGGESTED IDEA that you would be able to present as evidence for defence if you were ever involved in a court battle to decide rightful copyright and ownership of whatever it may be. It is not a law or even admissable by law. As said, it's simply somewhat of an urban myth that has never gone away, and whilst it would be helpful to have as evidence, and i know people who still do it, it is NOT LAW.

Just like the newspapers, dont believe everything you get taught on a course.

hit steve up, he's told me about his friend a few times and the guy seriously know's his onions

[dirty_bass]

For any serious legal advice in regards to music, please hit me up on msn.
I will put you in touch with my best mate, who is PHD law specialising in new media, and who writes papers for the law society concerning new media law.
He has basically said he will give free legal advice to anyone from the underground I put onto him.

so there you go, get your advice straight from someone who is active in this region of law.

Shahoul rules.

Seriously, you won`t find many lawyers fighting for the little man in independant music.
Especially for free.

[soma]

http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/indetail/copyclaim.htm

Ok straight from the horses mouth.

Comes from the second point down

Ultimately this is a matter for the courts to decide. However, it may help copyright owners to deposit a copy of their work with a bank or solicitor or send a copy of their work to themselves by special delivery (which gives a clear date stamp on the envelope), leaving the envelope unopened on its return; this could establish that the work existed at this time. (Further details of special delivery should be available at Post Offices).

:razz:

you stand corrected.

[soma]

Some actual information: http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp


However, the U.K. Patent Office has this to say on the subject in its "Claiming and Enforcing Copyright" FAQ:

How can I prove originality in my work?

Ultimately this is a matter for the courts to decide. However, it may help copyright owners to deposit a copy of their work with a bank or solicitor or send a copy of their work to themselves by special delivery (which gives a clear date stamp on the envelope), leaving the envelope unopened on its return; this could establish that the work existed at this time. (Further details of special delivery should be available at Post Offices).

Careful readers will have noted the "may help" and "could establish" in the above entry.

So, basically, it is admissable as evidence but far from conclusive.

Sending it to a solicitor or depositing in a safety deposit box is better.

Ultimately the best protection is registering the copyright with PRS / MCPS or whatever it is.

This will cost you though - but then again, as they say oop north, you don't get owt for nowt.

sorry, you got there before me. fair points. definately register it, talk to the lawyer dude etc etc. Duinno about music but if your a graphic designer and you have a slick piece of work and an amazing idea and you dont want those horrible advertising agencies stealing your ideas. its not gonna hurt chucking it in the post, any back up is good backup. :)

[TechMouse]

Basically, I think the problem with sending it to yourself is that there's always the possibility that you could have tampered with the package. It's totally possible to steam open an old envelope and put something new inside.

That's why it's better to have it in a safety deposit box, because the bank (a trusted institution) can confirm when it was deposited and that no-one has touched it since.

Likewise, if it's with a lawyer then they can confirm it hasn't been opened.