PAID - Producers Against Illegal Downloads...

[Si the Sigh]

http://www.imorecords.com/shop/PAID-ad.gif

Noticed that IMO Records ( http://www.imorecords.com ) have got this up on there site with more information coming soon...

Sounds like a good idea to me...

[Si the Sigh]

Just so you know, this is the hardcore labels working together. There is a thread about it on http://www.ush.net. Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.ush.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=189238

[Miromiric]

resistance is futile :P

[Si the Sigh]

:lol:

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it --> http://www.aqpi02.dsl.pipex.com/paidlogo.jpg

[Si the Sigh]

:lol:

Or this one... http://www.surrenderrecords.net/fileshare.jpg

[Miromiric]

lol

[TechMouse]

Good luck to 'em, but they're fighting a losing battle bless their little cotton socks.

You cannot stop P2P filesharing unless you completely re-engineer the internet, and make totalitarian internet-wide DRM the de facto standard.

That isn't going to happen anytime soon, despite the best efforts of the money hungry cretins running America.

... and nor should it, since P2P has perfectly legal applications too. Many software companies distribute larger applications / ISO images over BitTorrent now, it's the only way to do it without caining your bandwidth.

VCRs did not kill the movie industry, home taping didn't kill music.

On a related note, buy your tunes if you're playing out. I couldn't care less for mixsets, but what kind of nobber downloads GB and GB of unmixed tunes just to listen to? The scene thrives on mixes, and there are literally millions of the buggers freely available. Just ask Conflict.

[Jay Pace]

You cannot stop P2P filesharing unless you completely re-engineer the internet, and make totalitarian internet-wide DRM the de facto standard.


You might not stop it, in the same way that you aren't ever going to stop shoplifting.
What you can do is educate people and make it less socially acceptable.

One of the main reasons people are stealing music at the moment is because they don't really consider it stealing.

Shoplifting is piss easy. As is dealing drugs. Both activities are illegal and there is always a chance of being caught and punished, however most people don't do it because of social pressures not to.

Make filesharing unpopular and frowned upon and you will have won half the battle.
More often than not its the social pressure not to do something rather than the potential penalties that dissuade people from acting.

[TechMouse]

More often than not its the social pressure not to do something rather than the potential penalties that dissuade people from acting.
Ah, those countless millions that give up a life treading the boards because of social pressure...

[Jay Pace]

I would have been up on stage, had my family and friends not threatened me with murder for bringing disgrace to my borough.

Like the penis owl btw. Much better than the cats.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/GarGur/technorly.jpg

[dan the acid man]

nice pic :lol: :lol:

i agree with techmouse, and yeah, jay is right, if people are made to see how wrong stealing music is, then we may get somewhere

[wenna]

it;s all about passion! if u really, really love something then u'll go about and buy the original. we'll for me anyway

[RDR]

Its about ownership, years ago it was possible to buy a record and feel some kind of ownership, that little piece of vinyl you bought and religiously listened to held within it something that made the music YOURS. you had that vinyl 7" for a week, you knew the lyrics backwards, you played it to your friends, until you bought the next single.

Now what is left? A silver top CDR you scrawled the artists name on and a 'couldnt give a ****' attitude, if it gets scratched you just burn another one. simple. There isnt ownership of music anymore as a commodity. As something to be treasured. "There's only music so that there's new ring tones" (The arctic monkeys.)

Where does it end? For some people it already has. But i say its the beginning. In the history of music, the means of reproduction of recorded music is only just starting. it has only just become available for ALL to listen to, for ALL to reproduce and to access (I dont count asia or africa in this statement..more of that in a bit.) We are at the beginning of this musical revolution, not the end.

Africa and asia in particular are going to be the place where the real change occurs. There are SO many people living there that i find it inconceivable that there future actions will not have an effect on the music industry. In fact , IMO it looks to me like the current industry is just thrashing around in the death of its current manifestation.

Interesting times ahead.

[tocsin]

Can't seem to find what their angle is but it sounds silly already. If anyone truly thinks that hardcore vinyl sales are down because of piracy, I'll counter that it's just the market that has shrank. And this, in my honest opinion, is due to the fact that it has never recovered from turning into the big dick-sucking conformity festival around the time that "newstyle" became the norm. You get a market of DJs that wanted loud, fast and aggressive music who often came from musical scenes that focussed on rebellion. Then, as the popularity contest goes in full swing, you start seeing much more conformity in the sound. With the exception of a few artists here and there, most hardcore that has come out since that time period has bored me to death. And, as a direct result, I stopped buying it. The guys I do like? They send me MP3s, along with most of the general public, before it gets put out on vinyl. They don't seem to be worried for some reason.

Want sales back up? Stop blaming piracy and blame yourself for releasing formulaic predictable shit.

[tocsin]

Christ, these are Happycore people complaining? Maybe discussion about closing down or attacking sites that I use to release my own work legitmately, they should start paying for all the vocals and breaks they've lifted? The hypocrissy from the techno community on this shit will never cease to amaze me.

[Jay Pace]

So they should presumably just shut up, roll over and die without a fuss?

What a crappy attitude. These guys are just trying to protect their lot.
Might be a bit futile, but I can't see any reason why this should vex you.
Live and let live.

[TechMouse]

So they should presumably just shut up, roll over and die without a fuss?
Not at all...

They should be looking for ways to embrace and exploit the opportunities offered by global high-volume high-quality digital audio distribution at next-to-no cost.

Rather than crying about it and starting campaigns telling people how naughty they are, and lamenting the loss of the good ole' days when exchanging music wasn't so damned easy.

[rhythmtech]

Its about ownership, years ago it was possible to buy a record and feel some kind of ownership, that little piece of vinyl you bought and religiously listened to held within it something that made the music YOURS. you had that vinyl 7" for a week, you knew the lyrics backwards, you played it to your friends, until you bought the next single.



i dunno.. i still have that attitude towards downloads... i check religiously for new releases every day and when i find a gem i can get very secretive about where i got it ... and ALL my cds are kept in as good condition as vinyl, for albums i still try to create a cover with track list for them and even cds with techno eps get a listed cover with artist, trax, label and release date. :lol:

i think its a love for music that creates the attitude rather than a love for format..

[Jay Pace]

So they should presumably just shut up, roll over and die without a fuss?
Not at all...

They should be looking for ways to embrace and exploit the opportunities offered by global high-volume high-quality digital audio distribution at next-to-no cost.

Rather than crying about it and starting campaigns telling people how naughty they are, and lamenting the loss of the good ole' days when exchanging music wasn't so damned easy.

Its just a bit of education. Its not going to single handedly turn around happy hardcore's fortunes, but reminding people to buy rather than steal is hardly something to get pissed off about.

Telling people to buy cheap high quality rather than steal free low quality seems to be an straigh forward and well received message.

[RDR]

Its about ownership, years ago it was possible to buy a record and feel some kind of ownership, that little piece of vinyl you bought and religiously listened to held within it something that made the music YOURS. you had that vinyl 7" for a week, you knew the lyrics backwards, you played it to your friends, until you bought the next single.



i dunno.. i still have that attitude towards downloads... i check religiously for new releases every day and when i find a gem i can get very secretive about where i got it ... and ALL my cds are kept in as good condition as vinyl, for albums i still try to create a cover with track list for them and even cds with techno eps get a listed cover with artist, trax, label and release date. :lol:

i think its a love for music that creates the attitude rather than a love for format..

Im not really referring to the techno community or BOA or DJs in general, the love for the music goes without saying, so in that you are right, im talking about joe public, and inparticular teenagers ir those tweenies.

[RDR]

to care about something orsomeone you must have a vested interest in it, be it emotional or financial

[TechMouse]

Its just a bit of education. Its not going to single handedly turn around happy hardcore's fortunes, but reminding people to buy rather than steal is hardly something to get pissed off about.
Oh, agreed - but I'm not really getting pissed off. I think it's borderline admirable but ultimately futile.


Telling people to buy cheap high quality rather than steal free low quality seems to be an straigh forward and well received message.
Also agreed.

[Jay Pace]

Wasn't directed at you mate, they really seem to have got ole tocsin's back up...

[fresh_an_funky_design]

So they should presumably just shut up, roll over and die without a fuss?
Not at all...

They should be looking for ways to embrace and exploit the opportunities offered by global high-volume high-quality digital audio distribution at next-to-no cost.

Rather than crying about it and starting campaigns telling people how naughty they are, and lamenting the loss of the good ole' days when exchanging music wasn't so damned easy.


the problem with mp3's are the sales are crap, i have embraced the digital revolution with more punk than funk and to be honest at the moment its not really that great. yes there are no distribution costs, but we sell a hell of a lot more vinyl than mp3. maybe sales will increase over the next year.

whoever said the market has shrunk is 100% right, to be honest i don't think mp3's have harmed the techno market at all, they've prob done a lot more good than harm.

blaming mp3's is just an easy way of putting answers to falling sales

[dirty_bass]

I`ve recently done the jump to mp3 releases, and I`m very pleased.
Sales are great.
It`s almost worth giving vinyl the chop.

[dan the acid man]

well im trying to just buy mp3's now instead of vinyl, although there are some releases that you can't get :(

[fresh_an_funky_design]

I`ve recently done the jump to mp3 releases, and I`m very pleased.
Sales are great.
It`s almost worth giving vinyl the chop.


really? who you with? we're with trackitdown, out of hand and juno (when it launches) and for us its not brlliant, its not that bad but its got a long way to go before it becomes our main format

[dan the acid man]

i bought steves mp3's off djdownloads

[rhythmtech]

I`ve recently done the jump to mp3 releases, and I`m very pleased.
Sales are great.
It`s almost worth giving vinyl the chop.


really? who you with? we're with trackitdown, out of hand and juno (when it launches) and for us its not brlliant, its not that bad but its got a long way to go before it becomes our main format

juno digital has been launched a while now joe ;)

[djshiva]

I`ve recently done the jump to mp3 releases, and I`m very pleased.
Sales are great.
It`s almost worth giving vinyl the chop.


really? who you with? we're with trackitdown, out of hand and juno (when it launches) and for us its not brlliant, its not that bad but its got a long way to go before it becomes our main format

i LOVE trackitdown (although it is a mite expensive for us in the US). some really great shit on there. i have bought more tunes online in the last 3 months than i have bought on vinyl in a long time.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

I`ve recently done the jump to mp3 releases, and I`m very pleased.
Sales are great.
It`s almost worth giving vinyl the chop.


really? who you with? we're with trackitdown, out of hand and juno (when it launches) and for us its not brlliant, its not that bad but its got a long way to go before it becomes our main format

juno digital has been launched a while now joe ;)

has it! well u can get mptf on there as well then :shock:

[rhythmtech]

whats out of hand joe? i searched last night but couldnt find anything :(

[fresh_an_funky_design]

sorry its actually 'for your ears' got the name confused with a printing company for some reason
https://foryourears.com/frames.php?main=news&sub=news_71

there's only a couple of releases on there by us, still waiting for them to upload the rest :rambo:

[Jay Pace]

I spend a lot of money with beatport and bleep.com

I hate being forced to buy vinyl I don't want at extortionate prices just because someone doesn't want to release digitally.

Producers For Legal Downloads would have a lot more success.

Although PFLD isn't the snappiest acronymn

[fresh_an_funky_design]

I spend a lot of money with beatport and bleep.com

I hate being forced to buy vinyl I don't want at extortionate prices just because someone doesn't want to release digitally.

Producers For Legal Downloads would have a lot more success.

Although PFLD isn't the snappiest acronymn

beatport have some of the worst customer service i have ever encountered. it takes them 2/3 weeks to reply to each email each time with some bullshit excuse with why its taken them so long

[Adrenalin]

For those digital DJ's in North America, I highly recommend:

http://www.2thebeatdigital.com/

It's due to be launched any day now.

IMO, if you use a track to play out at a gig, you should pay for it. The exception being if the track isn't available on vinyl anymore and idiots are charging way too much for a used copy, then I say go ahead and download the track from Soulseek or someplace like that. Or if you are looking to download some mixes from shows, etc. People just need to think beyond their selfishness and look at the larger picture. Just my opinion though.

[mattboyslim]

i'm still undecided on mp3. it is quick and convenient for ableton, but I hate the fact that it isn't a physical product to hold and smell. Nothing to sell on either should you decide that its the end of the road. I'll be buying both for the forseeable future. And as my mate owns a record shop which he runs as a hobby, as he's an architect by trade, then I can see it being a fairly lengthy forseeable future

[davethedrummer]

rubbish....all of it
and the music too...crap.....i mean its techno isn't it ??

anyway.........

i just like the little lights on the front.......
and the way the cute little tray comes out and goes back in when you touch it ever so softly .......like a young girl.
storing your music on a removable usb drive just doesn't quite give me the same thrill , like ejecting the removable disk from the desktop and all that.
nothing like sliding a good well balanced cdr into position i can tell you.



( this was taken from "future forum arguments vol 1" year 2010) :techno:

[Sunil]

Fair play to them. The organisations they are against are scum. Speaking out against these websites, and trying to educate is a good thing. I just wish the laws regarding illegal filesharing and the people who run these sites, gets *a lot* stricter. Wipe the ****ers out.

[tocsin]

Wasn't directed at you mate, they really seem to have got ole tocsin's back up...

Of course they get my back up, I hate it when people decide to form fake organizations to speak for me, especially when they are hypocritical in the process.

[Buttman]

JOIN PPID!

Anyone?

[Sunil]

JOIN PPID!

Anyone?

PPID or PAID?

[RDR]

Wasn't directed at you mate, they really seem to have got ole tocsin's back up...

Of course they get my back up, I hate it when people decide to form fake organizations to speak for me, especially when they are hypocritical in the process.

He's bloody right though.

Although he doesnt know how.. (excuse me mate.. ill explain)

The hypocracy comes not from the music they will have undoubtdly downloaded themselves, but from the software, sample CDs, ripped lyrics, ripped kicks/snares/hats they have sampled.

So where is the line drawn? At their wallets? At the law itself? It appears drawn for their wallets.

I know lots of producers that have sample CDs they dont actually own, who use illegal copies of software and write and sell music on them.

I include myself in this. So who the hell are we to moan about MP3s? I've yet to meet ANYONE who used only legal software alone... no warez of any kind. Some of you might have legal now, but it wasnt always that way was it? (im making assumptions here...i know, but im willing to bet)

In fact the difference between stealing an album and stealing a program say like soundforge is MASSIVE. an album.. you are taking away 9.99 from the industry (79p from the artist of course) soundforge is 399 quid. Work it out....

Im trying to go legal, but its not easy, its not cheap, but i feel better for it.

[Buttman]

JOIN PPID!

Anyone?

PPID or PAID?

Producers Pro Illegal Downloads

[Jay Pace]

Music is more than the sum of its parts.

There is hypocracy in ripping off software and samples, then complaining when people rip off your music, but I don't think its fair to claim that the artists have no right to claim the music they produce as their own property, for which they are entitled to charge for.

If I wrote a book, a work of fiction lets say, using a cracked copy of microsoft word, using a laptop I nicked and I borrowed heavily from other writers I might be acting unethically, but it wouldn't follow that I couldn't charge for anything I produced.

It might be hypocritical that I complained about people stealing from me whilst I was stealing myself, but I would still have a valid claim to want to be paid for my work.

A line is drawn where ever someone believes they have created something original, and they want crediting and paying for it.

dodgy - I'm sure you're like plenty of other people. You start of stealing, you end up buying. I'm pretty sure the software companies are aware of this progression. There's no way I was ever going to fork out for a copy of cubase when I was just tinkering about, but once it becomes an integral tool you depend on buying it becomes a lot more appealing.

Ramble Ramble. Sure theres a point in there somewhere.

[tocsin]

If a bunch of hack artists (and I mean that specifically as a lot of their sound is hacked out of other existing works and kludged together) make threats of tyring to kill servies, or any other dumb bullshit, which I use to distribute MY music for free of my own will and volition, they can **** off. Criminals complaining about when they get screwed by crime is just pussy shit. If they want to go after individual pirates and such, fine. But I don't want to hear smack talked about places like Soulseek and other filesharing sites. I've used them exclusively at times to distribute my own tracks when I didn't have the bandwidth on a webserver to do it from there. And this ALWAYS gets ignored by these dime-a-dozen hack artists.

[Jay Pace]

Valids points mate, but I think all these guys are trying to do is educate people a bit.
Hardcore is a relatively small scene dependent on a youth audience who tend to be fairly prolific filesharers.

I don't think they are trying to take down all p2p networks or kill servies, just asking people to support the scene by paying for music rather than stealing it and sharing it illegally.

Which isn't an unreasonable request IMO.

[Stompinraver]

never found any full song dj friendly hardcore mp3s on those filesharing things anyway..if anything the reason people try and use filesharing to get hardcore mp3s is because theres not enough digital download sites with the tunes that they want to buy on them..

[tocsin]

I couldn't tell exactly what they were doing by what was said in their thread, Jay. And, for all the people to bitch, hardcore labels and artists? Thieves bitching about thievery is just too hypocritical to ignore. It's like listening to whores lecture us about how terrible people who suck dick for money are.

[koma]

It's like listening to whores lecture us about how terrible people who suck dick for money are.

:cheese:

[Remade]

And, for all the people to bitch, hardcore labels and artists? Thieves bitching about thievery is just too hypocritical to ignore. It's like listening to whores lecture us about how terrible people who suck dick for money are.

:clap: :clap: hear hear

[tocsin]

http://lazytowncelibacy.ytmnsfw.com