I AM TRYING TO JUMP ON A BANDWAGON PLEASE HELP !!!!

[davethedrummer]

ok forgive the title it was just to get the debate started.
but i AM trying to jump a bandwagon , or at least many of you will see it that way.
truth be told i have made over the years many different types of music / styles of techno et etc ...
and since the elctrohouse / minimal thing came back from the grave i have tried my hand at making a few trax in thats style
so.....
ok here's the problem........
( you know whats coming next )

i have been known for making " acid techno " over many years
and bloody proud of the music i have made and the genre i am too.
the people in that scene are some of the soundest most honest people i have ever had the pleasure to work with and i would never say anything to undermine my love for them.

BUT

AND ITS A BIG BUT......

i really do think from the bottom of my heart that my musical career has more to it than just banging dancefloor techno , and i am trying harder than ever to express myself through my music , meaning i am making what i want , when i want , and bugger the consequences.

and at this point i guess i have to take a lesson from the "big" techno guys.
i mean people like hawtin , mills , clarke , beltram etc etc have ALWAYS done what they want and everyone goes with it ( maybe not everyone , but you know what it mean )
is that because they are riding a crest of their own wave of fame?
or are they true geniuses/pioneers moving the sound forward?

i think the answer is both.
but that does not mean that no one else is capable of what they are doing musically they just lack the funds and the machine to help them along.

wheras a guy like myself who has pigeonholed himself so hard over the years ( i can only blame myself ) cannot step away from the "underground" plate for fear of not being able to return.

( maybe i will be stoned to death by the elders , i don't know )


so....

it's a question of money
( ie: if i start playing minimal noone will book me and i'll lose my income)

and it's a question of time
( ie : while i am so busy trying to write my dancefloor music and keep my labels alive i am watching time fly by wishing i could perhaps do that artist album i've alway wanted to do , house , breaks , songs etc etc etc etc etc .....)


ok chaps i have gabbled for long enough
my question to you is.
can the leopard really change his spots , or is it just an industry game ?
and if you were in my position
what would you do?

discuss

[The Overfiend]

Use the name Henry Cullen for your new projects.
The educated shopper will be able to identify you.
But will still purchase the new material curious as to what your output is now.

[davethedrummer]

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?

[fac]

do some fine electronica, electro, detroit or idm etc. not this retarded clicks & cuts mnml sound everyone is trying to immitate nowadays.

[alsynthe]

think in that situation its finding a healthly balance of what you need to do and what you want to do. dont let what you want to do be put on a back burner.

for every dancefloor techno track you make, make summat that you want to make.

[davethedrummer]

do some fine electronica, electro, detroit or idm etc. not this retarded clicks & cuts mnml sound everyone is trying to immitate nowadays.

ok point taken
but i never said i was trying to imitate anything
elctronica ie: autechre , sun electric etc etc is what i grew up with and i love it still.
but thats not really my point here.
it's not a " how can i be cool and get recognised ? " type thread
more of a
" if i am doing something that is breaking the rulez , how can i get poeple to see it for what it is ? " type thread

if you get my meaning.

[dan the acid man]

It's a tricky one, it shouldn't be such a big deal really, you should be able to make what you want and thats it, but we all know it's not like that, especially when it's your living.

This then also goes hand in hand with the time factor, if you're spending all week making your usual techno, running labels, playing out at weekends, all to make a little bit of money so you can do this professionally, then it's a big gamble to give all this up to spend sometime making what your heart desires.

If possible, maybe try cutting back on a few things so at least you have a little more time to do other things.

[davethedrummer]

think in that situation its finding a healthly balance of what you need to do and what you want to do. dont let what you want to do be put on a back burner.

for every dancefloor techno track you make, make summat that you want to make.

well thats exactly what i have been doing
maybe what i am making is just crap , don't know

i can give you an example of what i am doing now but it involves me redirecting you to my space which will provoke an outburst of nuclear proportions.

so.... i'll put up a clip of a new track ( this is a hypothetical argument please don't think this is a promotional attempt ) on my site and i'll drop a link in here in the next couple of minutes

you are free to tell me if it is crap or not etc etc
but the point is...

if you are known for one style and feel you need to change to represent your new musical ideas honestly??

how do you go about it?

it's not about me , it's about all of us .

[fac]

i think the way adam beyer did it, showed that its possible to do this "turn". he was always famous for his drumcode-alike loopy techno. then he started the new label mad eye and began continously to "slow his sound down". and he is still succesful with his "new sound". maybe this is a possibility to do it.

[fac]

or... if you have some really decent tracks which some labels (which are famous for this new sound u want to do) would release, create a new mystical alias. no infos, no names, no face, no nothing...

[dan the acid man]

it's crazy really, you stick with one style too much you get slated, if you change style you get slated.

[Dustin Zahn]

I always put the questionable/experimental tracks on the B sides of my records. For instance, when I did my 1984 ep on my Enemy label a couple years ago...I think the only good feedback I got was on the B2 track...one of my best ambient tracks. :)

I think at the end of the day you should focus on doing what you feel is right. If it means stepping away from acid techno to make different music, then so be it. If it means getting a real job to replace lost income, then maybe thats the way things have to be. It's hard for us to know your situation and what is more important so it's for you to decide. I could easily go 100% minimal and take care of all of my money and gig problems right now but it would probably kill me inside during the process. In my case, I make and play the music that makes me happy and describes where I'm at right now. I'm pretty broke at the moment but I haven't been this happy about techno in years. My girlfriend and family's opinion of it all seems to differ but I'm the artist here! :)

Also, I don't think aliases really complicate things too much. It can be kind of welcoming imo as I know what to expect. If Skoog puts out something as Patrik Skoog...I can expect a hard as nails darker techno record. If he turns out an Agaric track, I can expect some grooves that you'd smoke a spliff to. Plus with aliases, you get the opportunity to kind of "start over." Every producer can imagine the excitement of putting out their first couple records, but it quickly wears off and you either A) slow down and carefully plan (and sometimes over analyze) your next release or B) rush out a shitload more and saturate the market. With a new alias and sound, it's exciting to see what you're capable of with a new audience. Dinner time.

[davethedrummer]

yeah the adam beyer thing is kind of what i was talking about
very interesting
ok here's a link , have a listen , and get back.
i still love this track , it's from the heart
i would like to pursue this direction , but i don't think i have enough house points / gold techno stars to do it

http://www.davethedrummer.net/audio/strange%20dayz%20ultimate%20mix.mp3

the point is not the track

it is an example
the point is ...
if you build somthing up and want to change direction , how do you do it??

think about the way the industry works
the way you build a rep.
etc etc

anyway enough b.s. from me ( way too much wine today )

[davethedrummer]

dustin
i have to say
you always appear from nowhere , and it is always worth a read.
thanks

[davethedrummer]

it's crazy really, you stick with one style too much you get slated, if you change style you get slated.

"she's a witch burn her "
"how do you know she's a witch??"
"she turned me into a newt "






" i got better "






" BURN HER BURN HER !!!!!"

[MARKEG]

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?


no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

[dan the acid man]

i've listened to all those tracks before on myspace, they're all great, strangedayz is probably my favourite.

i reckon dustins got it spot on really

[rhythmtech]

i reckon if your music is good it will shine through no matter what the style..

i dont think changing your name for differant releases is a good idea. i know everything i write ciomes under one name.. be it cheesey club stuff or angry distorted stuff. if "the underground" dont like it then they dont like it.. but another release like "jack me" and they'll be back onside again.. people are fickle but they also recognise good music (i think!!)

so basically yeah.. take a chance, see what happens but in the mean time keep puttin bread on the table with what you're known for.

[davethedrummer]

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?


no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

probably right there mr egg

[SICKNOTE]

yeah i wouldnt go too far out on a limb if i may be so bold

as rhythmtech said go for it but play it safe with what you known for

you do still enjoy it so keep tha side of it going

[davethedrummer]

right got to go for a bit
but please chaps , this is hypothetical
yes i am speaking about my personal stuff, because i started it , but i didn't start it so i could read lot's of replies saying " you should do this ..... "

no really i wanted to see what you all thought about artists shifting their sound and HOW they have achieved that or not achieved it to you minds.

[Dustin Zahn]

Thanks. ;) Another thing worth mentioning is one of the more positive points about the minimal explosion: new artist acceptance. If you look at sales charts on various sites, you'll see that a lot of the names are fairly new acts. While I think the majority of these new producers are just stoners-gone-ableton in a bad way, it's great to see that people are open to names besides the legends and obvious choices.

People are really quick to shun the minimal scene but its amazing to see how segregated it really is. There is the m_nus followers who will follow Richie, Luciano and co. into the depths of hell if asked to. Then there is the James Holden/Damian Lazerus kind of progressive styled "minimal," which all music aside has great production value. There's the foundsound/microcosm group of people that are more focused on the clicky, drippy, drugged out minimal sound (this is the stuff that most people on boa would probably hate on). On the flip, you have the harder minimal crowd such as Beyer, Agaric, 2 Dollar Egg, Tony Rohr, etc. There's also the DC10 circo loco kind of minimal/house/techno which is more like the party music of it all (Locodice, Tania Vulcano, etc.). And of course the electro-house with Trentemoeller, Gui Borrato, and more. Filling in the cracks there is tons of experimental type techno as well including Apendics.Shuffle, Kero, Paul Kalkbrenner, Excercise One, Thomas Schumacher, and more.

At the end of the day, there is so much room to breathe and do your own thing all under that "minimal" umbrella. And lastly, its like Dan The Acid Man, said...you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[mattboyslim]

i honestly think there are very few purists out there who would avoid your music no matter how good it is, just because you were/are associated with the acid scene

i like to think i have a good knowledge of techno. i know what i like, but background, scenes etc. who cares? good music is good music, and if whatever you do is good enough, it will sell

[Patrick DSP]

I loved the ambient track you did as Waterland with c.liberator back in 96. used to play the shit out of it when i used to play more chilled out beats.

do what you love and how you want to express yourself. but my advice is, use a differant persona if you're going to start doing minimal/non-hard music only sets that way you wont get a lot of pissed off fans.

[Si the Sigh]

I think Mr EG's hit the nail on the head Henry.

You've built up a reputation with the DAVE the Drummer / Henry Cullen name, so I'd stick with it, and just push your self a bit harder towards the area of the market / scene your aiming for.

[piginabush]

If the tunes are well produced then it shouldnt be an issue, true music lovers will not think "oh, Im not buying that DTD tune because he is a Techno man and he has released an electro house tune", true music lovers will see the new work as a widening of your experiences ;)

[massplanck]

classic thread.

break out of that mould DTD

[rhythmtech]

or keep the mould if you like it and create a new one to go with it.

[Si the Sigh]

Or use that mould to make jelly.

[rhythmtech]

and get two sxy ladies to wrestle in it for you

[theledge]

that would break the mould :lol:

[holotropik]

Is Henry gettin into Jelly wrestling...??

...what??

[sash]

being honest with your creativity always wins in the end. your character will shine through no matter what genre of music you produce if u r honest with yourself. fans appreciate honesty. i'd stick with DTD. I think fans wanna hear what else DTD can do.

[holotropik]

being honest with your creativity always wins in the end. your character will shine through no matter what genre of music you produce if u r honest with yourself. fans appreciate honesty. i'd stick with DTD. I think fans wanna hear what else DTD can do.

yep, that is spot on.

[Si the Sigh]

I 100% agree ^

But not about the jelly.

[Antinoise]

Henry, don’t worry about the typecasting, it’s made to be broken. But.. I think there are two important things people need to realize here:

1. “There is a time and a place for everything”.
2. Do a really f**kin’ good job at whatever your doing

It’s not about changing your style or changing your name; ITS ABOUT EXPANDING YOUR PALLET!. -----It’s about having that wicked break track to drop into a set to break the 4/4 monotony, -----Its about having that deep slow track (minimal or whatever) to drop-in when your playing the California desert as the sun is coming up, -----It’s about having more than Midnight-4am meth pumping techno in your bag.

All these dj’s playing hard techno.. now leaving it (seemingly) forever and now only playing minimal (or whatever) are inflicting an all new typecasting all over again. Dj’s need to understand the temperature and play the right music at the appropriate time. I don’t want to hear minimal at an outdoor party with 5000 people. I don’t want to hear hard techno in the bar up the road at 9pm.

Broaden the D.A.V,E the Drummer name.. don’t leave it.. It can only lead to further success.

Much respect,
Greg

[iffi]

You've obviously got an album of non-techno stuff inside of you that's screaming to get out. When i buy an album by a Techno producer i don't expect bangin tunes on every track-might as well stick to buying 12's if there were.
I say make your new music and stuff em. The clip you put up sounds good to me,(you can play it on our rig anytime-but there's no £ in it)and if you loose bookings because of it i'm sure other clubs will book you because of it (if u c wot i mean).
Variety is the spice of life m8 (so i'm led to believe) ;)

[dirty_bass]

totally toally understand where you are coming from here.
I`d say that the basic fact is that you will and probably do encounter prejudice or stereotyping from your acid techno history.
But it is a history to be proud of, and rightly so.
It`s all very well to say "oh a true techno fan would never stereotype and blah blah" but basically, you know the score, you get put into a box by people.
I`ve been in the same position and am having to do the same thing, use a totally anon name.

Aliases are the way, it`s your music at the end of the day, if it`s good, it will catch on, and if you have the dollar or the butt sucking talent, then get some good capitalist schweinhund marketing on the go too.

Good luck, and basically go for it man, you can still keep up the london stuff too, split your time, 2weeks other stuff, 2 weeks acid, or whatever.

If you start an alias (and I think the henry cullen one everyone knows is DtD), then try to keep it as anon as poss for as long as poss I reckon, although obviously be contactable etc

[Antinoise]

ya.. I'm not a huge fan of the multi-alias thing.. however keeping it unknown seems to work. The mystery has an aurora + the new name gets judged on its own merit.. and then later once established, you can reveal it and surprise every ones pants off. It becomes more a PR thing than just slapping a new name over the henry cullen skeleton. Just get to making your beats first.. Let these things work themselves out later.

What does Justine think about this whole subject? You know they are always right!!

[jiminyblackbox]

from a punters point of view as long as it sounds good . . . . . . . !! enjoyed the sample - stick the henry cullen bit to it, we will all know n those that dont will soon be educated, and im sure enthusiasts in whatever genre u take a plunge into will find the link between ur present and past if u get me . . . . .

[tOM B]

i think it's great to see people producing diverse music - and i think mark's right, the level of success is all about how and where your marketing happens

i guess some people might winge a bit, but it'll only be because they really rate what you do now; which means you'd always be welcomed back with open arms. Although i see no reason why you can't be known for producing different styles of good quality music at the same time

[MorePunkThanFunk]

maybe have a go at writing some music for tv adverts, could be a nice little earner and will let you create more diverse music

[massplanck]

:cool:
http://www.discogs.com/release/176923

[Sunil]

:cool:
http://www.discogs.com/release/176923

This is a good record, I remember getting it when it came out. Actually when I was thinking of some of the 'different' stuff I've heard by him in the past the other day, this one sprung to mind.

[rhythmtech]

jeez.. off the wall.. that was a great label..

anyone remember the gizelle & immersion release "1,2"?

[Sunil]

No, I had the Higinio 12" though, there was one corker on that... was quite dark if memory serves me correctly.

[rhythmtech]

he did one with chris lib aswell i think

[Si the Sigh]

Off The Wall was off the wall maaaaaaan!!

[massplanck]

well just thought its funny because the record is described as minimal on discogs. So Dave isnt a bandwagon jumper after he's been a pioneer of the minimal sound since 96.

or maybe it was all lost on ye.

I love explaining jokes.

[tocsin]

no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

I'm gonna have to agree with this. It's the simplest and probably most honest answer. The guys you mentioned, Henry, haven't been able to do whatever they want because they rode a crest of fame or because they are geniuses, or a mix of both. They were able to do it because, upon achieving some success, they got the right people generating a lot of hype behind the newer stuff they did. It's likely just a question of seeing if you can hook up with an organization/business that can do this for you. You've certainly got a large enough discography.

[Symmetric]

As a fan and a dj I will follow a good producer anywhere. Do what you feel, because if you love it then your fans will love it also. People, scenes, and tastes change and grow. Don't hold yourself back.

[robin m]

I don't know who would make negative judgements of you turning your hand to something new, maybe I'm just being naive - you must have had some experience of it to prompt this thread, but the majority of people can't think that way surely?

Personally I love it when I think I know how something's going to sound before I hear it based on previous experiences and it turns out to be something new that takes me by surprise, makes it even better.

You've certainly shown you can make banging acid stuff time and again, you've got nothing to prove there any more - keep it coming for sure but you've surely earned the right not to deliberately restrict yourself creatively.

The more width and imagination someone shows in their tunes the better, and I'd be surprised if many people thought otherwise. :)

[TechMouse]

I think Henry should start producing acid skiffle.

[fils_here]

go with your heart & what you wanna do man, no ones gonna slate you for taking a slightly different musical approach if they do then that's their problem & not your's. it would still be wise to carry on with techno & produce the minimal/electro sounding stuff on the side for now & build up a following if you catch my drift.

[Jay Pace]

Plan of attack:

Abruptly stop playing hard techno, grow your hair all weird and everyone will start talking about your hair more than your music.

People will bitch and moan about how you pussied out on proper techno, but mostly they will fixate on your hair.

Eventually the tide will turn, you will be the most popular man in the world and will open the 2012 London Olympics.
People will still be bitching about your hair and your pussy music, and you can wrongfoot everyone by playing hydraulix 9 during a surreal opening ceremony featuring angry clowns on stilts with guns.

Eventually everyone will grudginly accept that you are a pioneer of techno even if they don't like your new direction, although they will still have reservations about your hair.

Then cut your hair.

[crime]

the important thing is to totally ignore what you think other people will think of it and just get on with it.... don't let the tail wag the dog, I personally think that's where things can go wrong, and also the reason why I found london really opressive when I lived there, and berlin also to an extent, people telling you "oh there isn't the market for this or that" or "you should be making music like....".. this is why moving to Poland has been so liberating for me, not being surrounded by industry people who think they know what's what...
just do what you feel, write loads of it, and only release the corkers...

[holotropik]

the important thing is to totally ignore what you think other people will think of it and just get on with it.... don't let the tail wag the dog, I personally think that's where things can go wrong, and also the reason why I found london really opressive when I lived there, and berlin also to an extent, people telling you "oh there isn't the market for this or that" or "you should be making music like....".. this is why moving to Poland has been so liberating for me, not being surrounded by industry people who think they know what's what...
just do what you feel, write loads of it, and only release the corkers...

yep, true.
always control that dog tail
its at the shitty end
and should be treated as such.

[eyeswithoutaface]

this is exactly why im SOOOO glad im a newcomer in the current climate. None of this pressure to keep performing for the moaners or those stuck in the past and unwilling to move on with their fave artists. I mean, shouldnt a true fan be willing to accept what the artist they love is doing and move on with them?

it's a tough dilemma certainly, on one hand you want to do what you want to do, on the other you need to keep doing what you are doing in order to retain gigs and please the fans. I think it's alot easier for the younger and newer artists like myself to have a very neutral stance on something like this, because i've never had to rely on music as my income, it's nice when music does bring some income in as it's another way to appreciate your hard work, but at the same time allows practically total freedom to do what one wants, at the moment im releasing and producing everything from hard techno through to minimal, through to electro, to breaks and i even record my own songs and with friends in bands and stuff so its gravy.

personally Henry, i think that track u posted is one of the best thing's ive heard of yours, i really dont like the acid london sound, ive just never been into it, i know it means alot to alot of my friends and i can understand that, but i think if someone can produce to your standard and is doing other stuff like this which, to me, and im sure to many many others, is a cut above the harder or clubbier stuff your doing, then it would be almost stupid not to follow that path just because people wont like it. As i say i know you need to keep your gigs in order and for that you need to retain your status as hard/london/acid techno artist, but i think the best thing to do is to let nature take its course. The more anyone fights a situation like this, the more they'l find themselves ultimately moving over in that direction as the need for refreshment and change just increases

[jacques]

Good music is good music, irrespective of who has produced it.
What is in a name?

Start playing minimal - people will book you, and take some time out to write more personal material. You don't owe anyone anything (except yourself a living, i guess), it is ultimately your music and we as your audience are privelidged to experience it, in whatever form.

[tocsin]

Plan of attack:

Abruptly stop playing hard techno, grow your hair all weird and everyone will start talking about your hair more than your music.

People will bitch and moan about how you pussied out on proper techno, but mostly they will fixate on your hair.

Eventually the tide will turn, you will be the most popular man in the world and will open the 2012 London Olympics.
People will still be bitching about your hair and your pussy music, and you can wrongfoot everyone by playing hydraulix 9 during a surreal opening ceremony featuring angry clowns on stilts with guns.

Eventually everyone will grudginly accept that you are a pioneer of techno even if they don't like your new direction, although they will still have reservations about your hair.

Then cut your hair.

HAHA!

The Velvet Jones School of Techno. ;)

[Athar]

go with your heart & what you wanna do man, no ones gonna slate you for taking a slightly different musical approach if they do then that's their problem & not your's. it would still be wise to carry on with techno & produce the minimal/electro sounding stuff on the side for now & build up a following if you catch my drift.




do what you love and how you want to express yourself. but my advice is, use a differant persona if you're going to start doing minimal/non-hard music only sets that way you wont get a lot of pissed off fans.

im totally agree with these above comments.
You`re a buldier your history, like everybody.
if you feel thats a right moment for change - go and do it!
a lot acid/techno freaks respect you for a music and tracks with one you allready done but im absolutely sure nobody will tell you bad words becauce you try doing what you want doing at this moment.

Music is a mirror our minds & feelings and hope wll be forever.

[fils_here]

go with your heart & what you wanna do man, no ones gonna slate you for taking a slightly different musical approach if they do then that's their problem & not your's. it would still be wise to carry on with techno & produce the minimal/electro sounding stuff on the side for now & build up a following if you catch my drift.




do what you love and how you want to express yourself. but my advice is, use a differant persona if you're going to start doing minimal/non-hard music only sets that way you wont get a lot of pissed off fans.

im totally agree with these above comments.
You`re a buldier your history, like everybody.
if you feel thats a right moment for change - go and do it!
a lot acid/techno freaks respect you for a music and tracks with one you allready done but im absolutely sure nobody will tell you bad words becauce you try doing what you want doing at this moment.

Music is a mirror our minds & feelings and hope wll be forever.

;) :thumbsup:

[Chicago_Techno]

Well, I just wanted to join the discussion on the whole harder techno to minimal transition. Form a listener/fan point of view, I think the shit that is currently being produced and played worldwide is total crap not worth my time. I was thinking about the reason for the "slow down" in techno and came to the conclusion that a lot of artists/pioneers are getting older and their musical tastes change with their age. I even caught myself recently listening to some downtempo stuff and diggin' it like hell, being a hardcore hard techno fan since 1995.

I've heard a lot of opinions that the softer side of techno will help bring a bigger following to the scene, especially the younger generation. I say, that's bullshit. I happen to have a 16 year old brother that just recently started getting interested in EDM. He asked for some techno sets so I gave him two Beyer's sets, one from 2003 and the other one just from this year, him and his friends listened to it and told me that the new stuff is awful.

I guess the whole world just got hooked on this glitchy, minimal sound. I recently went to see Christian Smith in Chicago and I got annoyed as hell with his set. How can you play some 128bpm minimal crap to the club full of people at 2am? Where is the energy? The place should be shaking so hard at that time of the night, that the people on the other side of the town should be feeling it. Too bad I didn't bring the pillow and a blanket that night because instead I had to go home, I was so bored.

I own nearly every single track that was out by Henry and I feel I should speak my mind. So Henry, I'm sorry to say this but if I hear you play minimal at any event I'll be at, I'm leaving with that bottle of Zubrowka we never finished.

[Tiptoe]

this track you put up is seriously good. one of the best tracks i have heard for ages mate it really is. if you've got stuff like this up your sleve then please don't be bothered about narrow minded people and get it out there. seems like your dying to express yourself in other ways. i know it must be hard for fear of not being booked but the cream always rises to the top and if your playing quality tunes like that you will be booked to play cos that tune is shit hot!

[audioinjection]

its a bandwagon, people are jumping on like no tomorrow, and it'll probably stay this way for a while......like most trends they come and go, but i wonder what will be next, the hard stuff coming back? who knows

if henry wants to jump on the minimal wagon, so be it......but what i want to know is, are you jumping on to stay for good? or are you just doing this while minimal is popular?

[Chicago_Techno]

narrow minded people

:roll: There are narrow minded people out there I agree, but that doesn't mean that the stuff that is currently produced is top notch quality music. I personally don't like it and can't stand it, that doesn't mean that I'm narrow minded.

[theledge]

Just to add my tuppence worth

Ive been away from techno for the last year...and from buying records for nearly two

I wouldnt know a 'minimal' techno record if it jumped up and smacked me in the jaw. I thought the track you posted up was good techno...great production, interesting sounds, good energy to it and even if the pace has dropped slightly from the records of yours i'm more familiar with, you'd still be able to mix it up and rock a dancefloor with it at any tme of the evening, if the dj knows what he is doing

At the end of the day there's nothing more transparent than an artist banging out choons just cos he knows he's got a market for them, and can sell them. What end result will be devoid of soul and passion - and can only have a limited shelf life.

[Mindful]

I think if you make music then you realy have to express yourself in the way you feel no matter who you are.
If its about the music for you then the worst possible situation you can find yourself in is that your not creating and sharing the music you wish too, so you have to go for it and hopfully people will feel what you are doing.
If like Henry you allready have a following then of course most of these people will not like any other sound that varies from what you are known for but new people who dont like your sound now will feel any new direction.

To put things simple.... some people like your music now and some dont, you change and some people will like your music and some wont so the important thing is that YOU like it.

This is the point of veiw coming from a guy whos money does not come from music so of course its going to be different from a guy whos music is his job (must be nice) : )

[dubs]

You only get the bset out of yourself when your doing what you want to.

I'd also keep a few other irons in the fire though. :cheese:

[samba]

Let it flow H...

[Dorian Hunter]

Some people will say "Look, Dave the drummer is moving forward with his sound", others (incl. me) would be dissapointed when they go to see you playing and get to hear a Minimal/Electro-set.
To be honest, I don`t go to see Adam Beyer or Hawtin etc. anymore when they are in Austria, totally boring, sorry.
But when this is what you really want to do and produce, now is the right time for that kind of sound I guess.

[Symmetric]

I was having a conversation with a friend last night, when the topic turned to the "M" word again.
My buddy said he makes music that for him represents where techno should go, and the stuff he is producing now is in a grey area where it might be called minimal, but really isn't.
I think we've over-used the minimal label to the point that, like theledge said, what used to just be called techno is now sometimes getting called minimal in the shops because it isn't grinding hard techno.
When a hard/acid techno producer makes tracks with a lighter sound we too easily call it minimal. But the hard thing has been done and done well for a long time and the evolution of the music has to go somewhere else, right?
Just call it techno and forget about the prefix sublabel and then we can put the minimal issue to bed!

[wenna]

Let it flow H... :cool:

[samba]

Let it flow H... :cool:

This tune hasnt left my box for 3 years!!!

The flips the shit too.

Take great enjoyment in telling my more purist mates whos behind it.

More please captain... :cheese:

[eyeswithoutaface]

bandwagon bandshmagon

make it, stick it out, have a wank, everyones happy :)

go for it

[Mindful]

Bang on way to put it Scott

[Roxy Trip]

do what makes you happy
never give up on what your passionate about
**** what people think
theyl either love it or they wont
no point worrying over it

;)

[dan the acid man]

bandwagon bandshmagon

make it, stick it out, have a wank, everyones happy :)

go for it

thats going a bit far mate, you sick puppy :lol:

[MARKEG]

do what makes you happy
never give up on what your passionate about
**** what people think
theyl either love it or they wont
no point worrying over it

;)

marry me :lol:

[el salvador]

do what makes you happy
never give up on what your passionate about
**** what people think
theyl either love it or they wont
no point worrying over it

;)

marry me :lol:


me too :lol:

[davethedrummer]

it's really really nice to read everyones replies on this topic
from this discussion i'm feeling much more inspired to release this new stuff myself as opposed to trying to get other " cooler " labels to release it.
yeah there will be a bit of backlash but at the end of the day i don't think my normal dj set will be changing too much.
i totally agree with that earlier post about playing minimal slow stuff at 2 am , yes the club should be rocking to it's core at that time in the morning , not crowding round the bar worrying about last orders.

and thats where i think we all agree . the essence of this music is in the playing out in clubs although many of us love to listen to it at home too .
a good club night should be rocking one way or another. not full of people holding a discussion about the music.

and as far as using aliases , or worrying about what people might say or think about my music , i think i'm just going to stand behind all of it and say " here it is , work it out for yourself "

it might work. who knows ?

[dan the acid man]

sounds like a good idea to me

[tOM B]

sounds like a good idea to me
and me

[Buttman]

change Drummer for Dumber

[davethedrummer]

change Drummer for Dumber

ok

how about changing buttman for " go f@ck yourself! "

[wenna]

when are u due on the boa radio show h? perhaps u could discuss this subject on there :)

[wenna]

not that i'm 'gagging' ;) for a new show or anything :cry:

[lissajou]

i hear you, boss.

i'm about to break you off some
genuine type game, bro.

pay close attention, as i'm only
going to say this shit once...

first off, while your name may be dave,
and you may indeed enjoy playing the drums,
your monicker does not "keep it awesome"
in the way modern rockers demand.

you need something subtle and evocative,
something simple and sexy, like

"asundayreckoning"

"the remorse"

or

"horsexe"

furthermore, you need to get far away
from yr free party roots as humanly
possible.

don't make any mention of your history
or identity for at least another six months,

at which point, i predict it will become
agonizingly hip to have spent ages raving
til dawn,

assuming you're able to behave as if you did so
ironically, or that you're some sort of roky-esque
schizophrenic visionary.

thirdly, the auts will be remembered as
a popist era.

look at modern "hiphop" or the inexplicable
popularity of bands like xiu xiu,
if you don't believe me.

gather up the weirdest, most effed up sounds
in yr household, throw them together in a
fashion resembling any song on the third
velvets lp, and have some reed throated
depressive emote over it all.

release that shit as a limited edition
seven inch ep, packaged in oxfam scraps
or magic markered toilet paper or
something similarly "outside".

you'll want to have put together a fantastic
live pa before you've do any of this, however,

one in which you and whomever you happen to
be ****ing at the moment dress like hoboes
and pretend to play vintage synthesizers
and chinese guitars.

if you've not got a myspace account, GET ONE NOW.

preferably, one featuring pictures of you in makeup
and references to avant composers or new jack swing.

pretending you live in williamsburg or portland
will help, tho if you're stuck on the whole
"being english" thing, be sure you mention bow
or tottenham or something.

keep it real, is what i'm saying.

REAL ****ING AWESOME,

bro...

doing all of these things will assure you
at least one mention on pitchfork, which
will, in turn, guarantee you herpes worries
from at least one suicide girl, as well as
the sort of enduring celebrity enjoyed by
modern luminaries such as weird weeds,
jens lekman, or the cure...

[Buttman]

change Drummer for Dumber

ok

how about changing buttman for " go f@ck yourself! "

Oh come on where is your creativity?

[TechMouse]

change Drummer for Dumber

ok

how about changing buttman for " go f@ck yourself! "

Oh come on where is your creativity?

He's being mnmly creative.

[MARKEG]

when are u due on the boa radio show h? perhaps u could discuss this subject on there :)

it's coming. been a big mess up with the show in ukraine due to political problems over there. i will try my damndest to get a 2 hour special in the next week.

[davethedrummer]

change Drummer for Dumber

ok

how about changing buttman for " go f@ck yourself! "

Oh come on where is your creativity?

on my boot..... creating up your arse !

:razz: :clown: :clown: :clown: :sick: :bash: :newstyle: :love: :cool: :blush: :techno: :shock:

[Col]

i hear you, boss.

i'm about to break you off some
genuine type game, bro.

pay close attention, as i'm only
going to say this shit once...

first off, while your name may be dave,
and you may indeed enjoy playing the drums,
your monicker does not "keep it awesome"
in the way modern rockers demand.

you need something subtle and evocative,
something simple and sexy, like

"asundayreckoning"

"the remorse"

or

"horsexe"

furthermore, you need to get far away
from yr free party roots as humanly
possible.

don't make any mention of your history
or identity for at least another six months,

at which point, i predict it will become
agonizingly hip to have spent ages raving
til dawn,

assuming you're able to behave as if you did so
ironically, or that you're some sort of roky-esque
schizophrenic visionary.

thirdly, the auts will be remembered as
a popist era.

look at modern "hiphop" or the inexplicable
popularity of bands like xiu xiu,
if you don't believe me.

gather up the weirdest, most effed up sounds
in yr household, throw them together in a
fashion resembling any song on the third
velvets lp, and have some reed throated
depressive emote over it all.

release that shit as a limited edition
seven inch ep, packaged in oxfam scraps
or magic markered toilet paper or
something similarly "outside".

you'll want to have put together a fantastic
live pa before you've do any of this, however,

one in which you and whomever you happen to
be **** at the moment dress like hoboes
and pretend to play vintage synthesizers
and chinese guitars.

if you've not got a myspace account, GET ONE NOW.

preferably, one featuring pictures of you in makeup
and references to avant composers or new jack swing.

pretending you live in williamsburg or portland
will help, tho if you're stuck on the whole
"being english" thing, be sure you mention bow
or tottenham or something.

keep it real, is what i'm saying.

REAL **** AWESOME,

bro...

doing all of these things will assure you
at least one mention on pitchfork, which
will, in turn, guarantee you herpes worries
from at least one suicide girl, as well as
the sort of enduring celebrity enjoyed by
modern luminaries such as weird weeds,
jens lekman, or the cure...

What a fantastic post. Best advice thus far :P

Unfortunately, references such as "Xiu Xiu" & "Pitchfork" will go sadly ignored.

But i loved it.

Post more often. Please.

[davethedrummer]

i am now called " the remorse "
i do not make techno
i make elctronic art

:paranoid:

[massplanck]

i am now called " the remorse "
i do not make techno
i make elctronic art

:paranoid:

:clap:

[dan the acid man]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[TechMouse]

Elktronic

http://www.eparks.org/images/elk-nps-yell-ed-austin-herb-jones.jpg

[Ms.Rhythm]

[quote=davethedrummer]ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?


no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

Your a talented producer Mr Drummer and I’m sure, in fact I’m positive that know matter what style of music you produce you will always have admirers. Your great at the underground so I don’t see why you cant be great at other styles.

The more you broaden your horizons
and make different styles of music to suit everyone the more people will start to recognise your name especially if it isn’t so underground like with the acid.

I'm not too keen on the minimal my self but I’ll always give a new tune a listen, as for the funkier shit , to me you can never go wrong with a bit of butt wiggling, and I think you'd be great at the funkier stuff as you tend to incorporate allot of funkiness to your techno tunes, which I fecking loveeeeee btw!!

In the end though you've just got to think of no.1 and just go for it, if all else fails (which I doubt seriously) you can always come back to home sweet home !! good luck drummer ;)

[Antinoise]

My experience on jumping on or off any particular wagon are to ask the driver of said wagon to slow down to a comfortable speed as to not take a header of said wagon.

Wagons kill!.. Be Careful!

[dan the acid man]

aren't wagon wheels smaller than they used to be
















sorry, somebody had to :oops:

[davethedrummer]

and it had to be you didn't it dan ??

no definitly avoid fast wagons around bends
and of course wagon chases like in the wild west
nothing more painful than being rolled on by a wagon...i can tell you.
also try to avoid the old " under the horses and under the wagon " trick as it has absolutely no point at all , and basically winds you up at the back of the wagon being dragged along on your back
where your enemies who are following on horseback can pluck you off liike a turkey.

kind of like life really.....and then again not ... :eh:

[Antinoise]

Let us also not forget. Once safely on said wagon... you really don't want to fall off said wagon. For "Falling off the Wagon" is typically frowned upon in many cultures.

Ohhhh...wagons are such a bumpy ride.

[dan the acid man]

who'd have thought wagons would be so complicated

[Si the Sigh]

Mnml Acid Wagno Jazz

[John Vella]

Do whatever YOU want to do MUSICALLY Henry!!!

I wouldn't worry about what anyone thinks...

-j

[module]

ok chaps i have gabbled for long enough
my question to you is.
can the leopard really change his spots , or is it just an industry game ?
and if you were in my position
what would you do?

discuss


changing spots - bring in more remixers & cut down your Hydraulix etx production, this will give you more time, the label wider scope, and some new heads a good opportunity

if i were you, i would def try the psuedonym (sp?) for a few eps or even collabs with ppl like Varela or Skoog who have stepped over.


Mr Drummer, it is always better to regret something you have done than something you havent... go for it man.

and if it does f*ck up, jus re-release One Night In Hackney with a Liebing remix.. it'll be massif geeeeez ;)

[module]

BUT.. i'm not you.. soooo.. i cant really say.

its an odd situation. hawtin, imo, has slowly morphed his dj style over many years, where as his albums havent changed THAT much.. Mills ? i havent seen ANY change in his style or sound.

maybe a digital avenue is an effective route.. with laptops & cdjs being so loved these days, maybe Beatport or such might allow for a little journey into mnml land without too much expense..


i will say this. imo, you techno has always had a very wide spread. from your acid trax, to the tougher stripped percussion sound, to the silly sampled party vibe, to the harder linear european ideal. and all the engineering youve done for others. surely a step further wouldnt be THAT much of a departure ?


p.s have u released any albums ?

[andy28]

Heres my opinion H...
Plenty of artists vary their material under the same name, look at Eat Static for example, it'd be hard to name a style they haven't dipped their toes into...doesn't seem to have damaged their credibility in any way...still underground...still pulling the crowds...You've already gone down the alias route, with the techno, so that can be road is always open...I reckon it's time to push the name forward...

[andy28]

Heres my opinion H...
Plenty of artists vary their material under the same name, look at Eat Static for example, it'd be hard to name a style they haven't dipped their toes into...doesn't seem to have damaged their credibility in any way...still underground...still pulling the crowds...You've already gone down the alias route, with the techno, so that road is always open...I reckon it's time to push the name forward...

[The Divide]

I would go with the 'do whatever' train of thought

Your an artist, you should be able to pain any picture you want. **** everyone else

[The Divide]

*paint*

[G-BO]

i dont think going on a forum and asking for advice on what to do will really help you at all (not a dig)

[robin m]

Has anyone in this thread said anything other than go for it? I can't remember reading it if they did, surely that tells you all you need to know?

I'm still puzzled who'd be down on the idea tbh :scratch:

[TechMouse]

and if it does f*ck up, jus re-release One Night In Hackney with a Liebing remix.. it'll be massif geeeeez ;)
:lol:

[module]

and if it does f*ck up, jus re-release One Night In Hackney with a Liebing remix.. it'll be massif geeeeez ;)
:lol:


does that sound realy cheeky ? :eh:

sorry if it came across a bit.. harsh :oops:

[TechMouse]

Not at all mate. I thought it was funny.

[judas_beast]

Use a different alais.

Failing that, do as I did to my pet leopard when requiring a spot change: fetch the belt sander.

[davethedrummer]

Not at all mate. I thought it was funny.

me too

[TechMouse]

me too

You should do a mnml remix of it.

"... take this pill"... so I took it... and I said .... "What was that?" ... "Pro plus, you'll be needing it if you want to stay awake until they play some proper ****ing Techno..."

[fatcollective]

me too

You should do a mnml remix of it.

"... take this pill"... so I took it... and I said .... "What was that?" ... "Pro plus, you'll be needing it if you want to stay awake until they play some proper ****ing Techno..."

thats great :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Technobitch]

:lol:

[Si the Sigh]

ha ha ha! :lol:

[davethedrummer]

me too

You should do a mnml remix of it.

"... take this pill"... so I took it... and I said .... "What was that?" ... "Pro plus, you'll be needing it if you want to stay awake until they play some proper ****ing Techno..."

funny you should say that
we just did 2 remixes of it the other day , just didn't get round to dong a minimal one
wonder why....

[davethedrummer]

*doing* although "dong" may be more appropriate

[dan the acid man]

dong..........wooooosh......click,click

[TechMouse]

we just did 2 remixes of it the other day , just didn't get round to dong a minimal one
wonder why....
Ooooooh, curiosity well and truly aroused. (Amongst other things).

[djshiva]

mr. drummer...

it's funny that i should happen upon this thread right now. i just went a little crazy finding some ridiculously tweaked out minimal funk (for lack of a better phrase). not the leaky faucet, sure-to-cause-a-yawn-at-2-am stuff...but truly interesting techno (IMNSHO).

this is a bit of a departure for me as well, as i may not be as big a techno name as yourself, but i am known for bangin' it.

i don't plan on giving up the rip-your-head-off techno anytime soon, but i am truly enjoying a foray into the funkier, weirder end of things. and i have been wondering about the same thing (albeit on a much smaller scale). am i gonna have to put up with a buncha guff about my sound changing a bit?

i pretty much decided that my sound has changed several times (and i have always played funkier, more minimally stuff when the dancefloor or the venue or my mood necessitated it), and at the end of the day, i have to playing and producing what makes me happy.

i have been fairly bored with the harder techno for a while now. there are always gems if you look hard enough, but when i go to the record shop, listen to 50 records, and take home ONE...there is a problem.

so i say...do what you feel. some folks here have said what i think: minimal has become a catchphrase for a fairly wide section of techno that may or may not sound like my faucet dripping for 5 minutes. but it's all still techno at the end of the day.

and if techno was about evolution, then i say we need to get on with it.

i ain't gonna be giving up my speedy j and anxious records, but i feel ok working some new stuff into my repertoire, and if people are there to dance...then that's all i care about.

[Aratron]

it's crazy really, you stick with one style too much you get slated, if you change style you get slated.

why dont you start a new label mate

[MARKEG]

mr. drummer...

it's funny that i should happen upon this thread right now. i just went a little crazy finding some ridiculously tweaked out minimal funk (for lack of a better phrase). not the leaky faucet, sure-to-cause-a-yawn-at-2-am stuff...but truly interesting techno (IMNSHO).

this is a bit of a departure for me as well, as i may not be as big a techno name as yourself, but i am known for bangin' it.

i don't plan on giving up the rip-your-head-off techno anytime soon, but i am truly enjoying a foray into the funkier, weirder end of things. and i have been wondering about the same thing (albeit on a much smaller scale). am i gonna have to put up with a buncha guff about my sound changing a bit?

i pretty much decided that my sound has changed several times (and i have always played funkier, more minimally stuff when the dancefloor or the venue or my mood necessitated it), and at the end of the day, i have to playing and producing what makes me happy.

i have been fairly bored with the harder techno for a while now. there are always gems if you look hard enough, but when i go to the record shop, listen to 50 records, and take home ONE...there is a problem.

so i say...do what you feel. some folks here have said what i think: minimal has become a catchphrase for a fairly wide section of techno that may or may not sound like my faucet dripping for 5 minutes. but it's all still techno at the end of the day.

and if techno was about evolution, then i say we need to get on with it.

i ain't gonna be giving up my speedy j and anxious records, but i feel ok working some new stuff into my repertoire, and if people are there to dance...then that's all i care about.

i think really, the problem is a lack of quality control or even availabilty on hard techno these days... i have sooo much music sent to me for review cause i've been doing mag reviews for years and 7% of it is now hard techno as opposed to 70% 2 years ago.

i love heads down hard music but it's just not there in the form we know and love. and that's why ppl like you and drummer (and me to some extent) are looking elsewhere too.

[MARKEG]

this thread just goes on hehe!!! :lol:

[snooch]

me too

You should do a mnml remix of it.

"... take this pill"... so I took it... and I said .... "What was that?" ... "Pro plus, you'll be needing it if you want to stay awake until they play some proper ****ing Techno..."

15 cans of Red Bull!! :cheese: :cheese:

[Decimal]

I figure i'm pretty late joining this discussion, but i feel i have something to contribute that hasn't been addressed, and i think its about time i started getting into these discussions. ;)


Henry(DtD), some of my first records were of hydraulix, 18 and 20 i think. Great tunes, i still play them occasionally. If you think you have something original or advanced to contribute to the evolution of the music, be it acid or minimal, i think you should feel obligated to craft it to its maximum potential, and release it. Provided that you're not adding to the clutter of a trend-built scene, you should feel free to push new ideas and innovations.


As for people getting miffy over the branding things, i guess its like flavored milk. You've been out making chocolate-flavoured milk (acid) for so long and thats people's near-exclusive frame of reference. So now you start making strawberry-flavoured milk (minimal) and (given that people have never tasted dave the drummer brand strawberry milk before, or strawberries for that matter) naturally people are going to try it expecting it to be just like chocolate milk. I suppose if you released it under an alias, people would be more appreciative of it as a seperate brand, it'd be just like a new kind of chocolate milk to them.

Maybe that was an awkward metaphor. I tried. :)

[eviled303]

blimey, dont have the time or patience to read 9 pages worth, but the 9 pages tells me there's alot of opinions on this matter. i havnt been on this forum for ages so i have no idea how current this reply will be but as a long time record buyer of mr drummer i'd like to add my bit.

i reckon dtd is in a better position than most producers to experiment, decades in the business, a badass studio and an ability to produce a wide variety of music. i understand the financial constraints of promoting your own music, especially with the seemingly lacklustre vinyl trade, but expressing your music via your own labels seems to be the only way to share with the music loving public what you're trying to do. it's worked up til now within the constraints of henry's 'dancefloor' style, i'm sure with the right research into where the target audience is for the music you want to make, and how to reach them, it could work for alternative styles. i suppose money will always be a deciding factor in branching into other styles, but surely there would be no need to compromise the income generated from what henry does now, just channel some of it into getting other projects off the ground???

whatever happens, best of luck with it!!!!

[mattboyslim]

i wouldnt say theres lots of opinions. a lot of people saying the same thing for sure