How to take hard techno forward

[MARKEG]

From another topic, I found a question that really matters to me. So I thought it good to start another topic :)

Dustin said: The whole compression and dark loop shit kinda ran itself thin. 'I still love that stuff ', he said, 'but I admit it was getting a little tired. Hard techno is slowly on the rebound but I think it will come back in more of an old school form'

Interesting words....

So I replied:

dustin, you've been spot on with your comments recently. i've felt this alot recently too. i wouldn't say an old school form, cause at the end of the day if we all go old school we're not going forward eh heh, but i would say it's a step back to old school to go forward. i've been listening to alot of minimal recently and trying to apply that to a harder sound but with old school influences. get rid of those blasted loops, distortion, hard house samples and just get down to basics.



OK so help us out here. Whether you're producer or just dancefloor addict. We need everyone's opinions on this. How do we take this forward? Or am i thinking too much??? waaaaaaa :)

[The Overfiend]

By doing what is in your heart
Not what's being dictated in your ear
Whats the hot not new or now shit
If producers did more of what they wanted
Had distributors letting them do them
Shit might be a little bit more diversified free formed even
Distros run the gamut to what ultimately comes out it seems
Taking Hard Techno forward would be to let the Hard techno producers run amuck and do what the **** we wanted to.
Some unbelievable shit might come out of it.

[MARKEG]

Had distributors letting them do them

There's the quote of the century. Would be g8 to have the distro's let ppl do what they want but they dont.

[MARKEG]

but no serious - it's all about moving forward. it stands to reason, if we all move forward to then sod everyone else. distributors don't matter cause we're move too fast ;)

come on, back to the q. how do we take this forward....

[holotropik]

Well, I know within myself I am taking new directions
and experimenting with fresh sounds and original techniques.
What becomes of that publically will be determined by who listens
likes it and wants to pick it up.

I have decided to look way outside the circle in terms of style or genre
and get back to the basic essence of what I am doing. Experiment
with techno and come up with something unique and from
me, rather than trying to sound like something else.

Its that simple for me right now...

[holotropik]

I should add that I am not onto the hard tech sound anymore.
I have wandered off into other sounds without even meaning to.
So my input wouldnt really be of use, sorry.

hehehe...another side-track for me, oh well.

[Athar]

step back to old school would be something good for techno music in my opinion.
i mean not step back and staying there,
i mean step back to get a lesson how to do it, to get some ideas from the past,
plus tools from today and will be great push up for everybody.

Sometimes when i listening old schools sounds i thinking:
"Yes it coming from times when the music was more important than the money"
Unjust thinking ? Maybe...
maybe its just my reaction for sounds or its just only missing for old school,
but defo it will be great when we can back step back to listen and compare music from today and 10-12 years ago.
and after... producing something with old school influence then :)

[jeroenliebregts]

I think the whole minimal thing is kind of a logical reaction to both technical and musical progression of the last decade or so. Since we're able(ton) to do all kinds of freaky edits on audio samples and loops (eg timestreching) a whole new world of sounds emerged that fit techno music really well. The thing we call minimal now is just a way to express these sounds in the best possible way (by not using too many layers).
Musically, I think people have grown up and are getting more and more used to electronic sound (klik klak krik krak). If this kind of minimal would have been made 15 years ago, it wouldn't have become so popular i think..
Anyway, my point is that the challenge is in combining the whole thing. How can we use complex sounds in a complex way, and still get energetic dancefloor music?
answer: Go Hiyama / Grovskopa / Rumenige & Loktibrada etc.
in my opinion the future of hard techno.

[eyeswithoutaface]

well it's not entirely the distro's fault for how thing's are, if producers keep knuckling under the pressure as it were and keep churning out what the distro's want, then the distro's will just demand more. What's known as a vicious circle. Make the break and find a distro that's smaller, and will allow free near free reign for what you want to do. Wether or not you own a label, just get in touch with the more smaller independant distro's, and if what you have to offer is truely something awesome id bet more often than not the bigger distro's will take what you have. I know exactly how it works re the "they wont take a chance on smaller names" argument, i've had my share of those troubles believe me, but so does everyone, and if you wanna get past that you gotta keep cracking at it. Either that or hook up with a bigger name who does have a bit of clout with the distro's, but even then it doesnt gaurentee sales or a popular ep.

I think too much thought just throws up more problems, and ultimately will make your tracks sound more and more like the sound your trying to get away from. I find it nice to have a serious think about old memories, club nights, magic weekends etc ive had in the past and use this as insipiration for tracks that capture emotions. Get some real music in there with the hard loops, throw out this rulebook that seem's to do the round's that states it has to be 140bpm, distorted and just consisting of uberschall loops. I mean, they are good loops in places, but they were great 5 years ago, know what i mean?

just throwout that rule book, put all your fave artists out of your mind for a few hours and thinkin that so and so is the future of hard techno, he or she is the future of hard techno and just open your sequencer, and get working. I personally dont think those names mentioned above are the future, they've been around a few years now and in all honesty their older works are much much better than what they are doing now. The point being, no one knows the future of hard techno. There could be a little guy from the back streets of darkest Russia or somewhere with these sonically blinding hard techno tracks just waiting to turn the whole thing around. I bet 6, 7 years ago people didnt think things would be how they are now, so its practically impossible to say how things will be in the future. We can all make a good estimation based on current trends of course, but no one can know for sure.

[theledge]

Exactly if you just let the distro's run things then everyone is ****ed

Use the distros to put out releases theyre happy with but we live in a digital world nowadays, you can mix off CD or final scratch or Ableton or whatever, download tracks from the internet, publish them on MySpace etc etc

Its more decentralized than it was and it should enable you to do what you want with your techno, whether its hard, minimal disco diva or whatever :)

[Sunil]

I think too much thought just throws up more problems, and ultimately will make your tracks sound more and more like the sound your trying to get away from.


Good point. It also means you end up zoning in too much on the pretty slow state of many aspects of the music and scene now. It's more productive to spend time making than thinking about what to make. The thoughts of new techniques etc. will naturally pop into your head if you have a true desire to do something new.



I find it nice to have a serious think about old memories, club nights, magic weekends etc ive had in the past and use this as insipiration for tracks that capture emotions.


For sure. There's often nothing better that kick starts a techno track for me than being out at a club, and with it still being fresh in my mind when I sit down to make music the next day.

The club scene itself will have a big bearing on the future of hard techno or the future sound, particularly as younger producers start and come through. What they hear or see in clubs, or hear from the producers of now will have a big effect...



just throwout that rule book, put all your fave artists out of your mind for a few hours

Yeah, and also the distribution thing mentioned by Tony earlier... this is a major factor in so many samey tracks and records being made today. If you make stuff without the thoughts of particular labels or distributors in your head, it will always serve as a less of a distraction, and lead you to better results. That's why not relying on selling records as a main source of income, is helpful. 'Hobby' producers should seize the advantage they have a bit more perhaps.

Being in your own zone and trying your best to be *you*... is the most important thing. Getting genuinely angry at the state of the scene and quality of a lot of hard techno, may also be a good method for making good tracks ;)

It's good you started this thread Mark, personally though I think as a journalist that a lot of the buck also stops with you. I'm not saying that you don't review good records, but I think it's important to expose the shite just as much as the bad too. Unfortunately very few mags or journalists do this enough even though it's important, especially if there's a mould that needs to be broken.

[basd]

I think a lot of todays techno has lost its soul, too much harder techno is just about being hard, too much minimal is just about sounding freaky / bleepy, etc. Too much of the recently released records I've been hearing miss that certain amount of warmth I need in order to really appreciate it.

Apart from that, I'm liking the fact that there are more and more producers breaking the four-to-the-floor beat mould and are incorporating more and more diverse beat patterns in their tracks (i.e., offbeat).

Taking these two together, I'd say my personal way forward would be offbeat techno with soul. In other words, we need more Malhela :)

[Antinoise]

Techno needs to be more 'musical'.. I mean, there is some crap out there that you can hardly even call music.. No evolving emotion. no rhythm. Its just over distorted noise.

I hate that some techno has become so loopy that to the non-techno ear it sounds like the exact same loop to them over and over again, with no variation. Making a cool 8 bar loop is not a song... but many think that a track is 90% done after the first loop is created. Where is the bloody song structure!

Speaking of the non-techno ear..... The non-techno critic is the best! If its good then you should be able to play it to anyone. IF ITS GOOD.. ITS GOOD

Taking this genre forward is looking outside of techno to learn from whats on the other side.

[machina]

Techno needs to be more 'musical'.. I mean, there is some crap out there that you can hardly even call music.. No evolving emotion. no rhythm. Its just over distorted noise.


I agree whole heartedly with this... and I think it ties in with the other threads about techno in 1994-98 and the live instrumentation thing. Things back in that era sounded far more musical and 'organic' because producers were concentrating on making music, not on making a 'sound'.

All the delays/echos/effects etc that used to be dialled up by ear until it sounded good is now all just midi-synced to precise intervals without any thought - it's sounds robotic and predictable... the natural feeling is gone.

The technical emphasis these days is IMO misguided and stupid, everyone concentrates on precision, compression, production values. Nobody seems to care about the important bits - feeling, structure, personality.


I don't know about you guys but i prefer music which is honest and lacking in production to something which is produced perfectly but is just pointless. That is, i can still get something out of a brilliant piece of music which is produced badly... i get nothing out of perfectly produced crap.

machina

[Dustin Zahn]

To blame the distributors for all problems is ridiculous. They need the artists as much as the artists need them. If your distributor doesn't have faith in you then you probably shouldn't be with them, period. Trust me...coming from a bigger family of all entreprenuers, it's much harder to sell something you don't believe in.

[sash]

too much weird shit out in the shops. Also I reckon a lot of producers r more worried about producing dj friendly tracks rather than worrying about the people out there on the dance floor.

[sash]

Speaking of the non-techno ear..... The non-techno critic is the best! If its good then you should be able to play it to anyone. IF ITS GOOD.. ITS GOOD
.

yep i agree.

Also dj's r incredibly responsible for taking hard techno forward. Some dj's just don't bring enough contrast to their sets and shit gets monotonous when all u hear is hard dark tek all night.

Event organisers r also responsible for this as well. They need to think more about the overall night and what music is to be played when and where. Really the event organiser is like a big dj on the night. If he or she just let's anybody play anything cuz they heard they were a good dj, then there's no structure to the night.

[snooch]

Alot of the hard techno artists that I buy now tend to be a bit more diverse. They tend to put out more than just hard techno on a regular basis. Check out Inigo Kenedy's website for an example with all the mp3 releases. Or people like Grovskopa. I think diversity is a big way to avoid stagnation because you have a whole other set of peers to get inspiration or influences from. I personally get alot of ideas for hard techno tracks from production styles in dub reggae. The next person may get a brainstorm for that track he/she is stuck on from listening to that old Slayer track. I could keep going on and on with examples, but you probably get it by now. Musical evolution tends to run in cycles kind of like clothing styles do. Things get lame for a while then the retro craze goes on then someone comes out with something new that starts a whole new style. Yeah hard techno is kind of stagnant right now, but I'm not afraid. Things will get better, it's human nature.

[MARKEG]

i don't think there's been one point i've disagreed with here. sort of shows me that there's alot of ppl out there thinking the same. eyes, i loved your post there BRILLIANT..... jeroen, athar, hell - EVERYONE! i think the key is to a) (first and foremost!!!!) to not rely on making music as a living b) to justget your music to those excited about it...... but as in taking the music forward - stay off the uberschall loops hahhaha!!!!! give the space between the beats!!!!!! learn synthesis!!!! learn mastering and.. we're off!!!!

:lol:

can't wait to see the future. i'm very excited how we're alll thinking right now. :)

[Sunil]

To blame the distributors for all problems is ridiculous. They need the artists as much as the artists need them. If your distributor doesn't have faith in you then you probably shouldn't be with them, period. Trust me...coming from a bigger family of all entreprenuers, it's much harder to sell something you don't believe in.

Actually, I was thinking about that after I posted. It is easy to blame distributors, but yes, probably unfair to many of them. I think the direction some distributors have taken has been disappointing, however any of the smaller ones I know do still carry and push the stuff they're into and known for.

[Sunil]

The biggest and most annoying problem I find for hard techno (and it ties in with Sash's last post) is the programming of nights by promoters, and the amount of DJs who still don't believe in variety.

Now, if you start your set basically the same way you're going to finish it too, you are just going the bore everyone and make people see hard techno in a very bad light. A lot of people ridicule hard techno for being all boom boom, and dismiss the whole lot... and that sickens me, particularly when I know they are judging most of their opinions on DJs they've seen that don't have the ability to be 'diverse', or who play just one narrow style of hard techno for the whole set.

If you can bounce around from style to style, by the time you get into fearsome hard techno territory it's going to sound *much* better. It stands to reason. A night of drilling techno for four or five hours or m ore, does so much damage to this music in the long run. More people should cop onto this fact.

[thetonewrecka]

Turntables with broken pitch controllers causing all sorts of random speed ups and slow downs.
Beer spilled into a favorite machine that turns it into an angry drunk - sparks = fists of fury
needles made of styrofoam
Hell..throw the tempo control to the crowd. Interesting if mob mentality takes over.
I realise none of this is on topic, but isn't that the point of the thread?

[Jay Pace]

The best crowd reaction I have seen from hard techno lately was Jeff Mills absolutely destroying the main arena at Sonar.
With just a 909. There were probably around 10,000 people there, and Mills was playing very, very hard - and yet he managed to connect with the room and hold everyone.

Get back to basics I reckon.
People feel obliged to be clever with all the tools they have and want to use all the options available.
Using the latest technology to full effect does not make a track grab hold of the floor.

Stuffing tracks with polyrhytmic edits, morphing dynamics and other crazy things might be satisfying from a production point of view, but I have yet to see anyone top Mills' attacking a room with a piece of hardware made two decades ago.

I used to love hard techno for its ability to communicate energy and urgency in a clear & distinct way. Then it seemed to get overly complicated, or just a big fat distorted mess.
Both approaches seemed to alienate more people than it attracted.

[Frank Dogshit]

The biggest and most annoying problem I find for hard techno (and it ties in with Sash's last post) is the programming of nights by promoters, and the amount of DJs who still don't believe in variety.

Now, if you start your set basically the same way you're going to finish it too, you are just going the bore everyone and make people see hard techno in a very bad light. A lot of people ridicule hard techno for being all boom boom, and dismiss the whole lot... and that sickens me, particularly when I know they are judging most of their opinions on DJs they've seen that don't have the ability to be 'diverse', or who play just one narrow style of hard techno for the whole set.

If you can bounce around from style to style, by the time you get into fearsome hard techno territory it's going to sound *much* better. It stands to reason. A night of drilling techno for four or five hours or m ore, does so much damage to this music in the long run. More people should cop onto this fact.

I couldnt agree more with that! That is the one thing that can totally ruin a night aswell as giving you a bad opinion on hard techno. Its certainly all about progression.

[Col]

Hard techno should stop being so hard.

What you should do is create the genre "Soft techno" (techno for the tea & biscuits generation) which is made up of no kick drum & no bass - its basically just a pallet of light & airy rhythms.

On entry to the "soft techno" club you recieve a yoga mat and a complimentary cup of tea (in a plastic cup of course) and "nice" biscuit. The chill-out room consists of live pan pipe players for those that require something a little more worldly.

It's a sure winner.

[crime]

Hard techno should stop being so hard.

What you should do is create the genre "Soft techno" (techno for the tea & biscuits generation) which is made up of no kick drum & no bass - its basically just a pallet of light & airy rhythms.

isn't that what minimal is???

[Si the Sigh]

:lol:

[dirty_bass]

Even looking at calling it hard techno I think isn`t looking forward.
A kick drum is heavy on a good soundsystem no matter what, and I`ve heard non "hard techno" bang the hell out of people more than some "hard techno"

Techno should be a fluid music, that changes and incorporates new sounds and ideas consantly, but with the information overload of modern life, people tend to focus down into their own personal niche. Which is why you get DJ`s playing what amounts to the same track for 2 hours, and guys releasing pretty much the same tracks over and over again.

If you are a "hard techno" producer, maybe you should stick your head up out of the nest and have a look about, before you find out the rest of the world has long moved on, same for any producer really. If you just stick to one little sub genre, then sooner or later, like any artist repeating themes in any art form, you will find yourself constantly watering down your creative intensity, and stand still in the river, while others flow along with it.

Maybe hard techno is dead?, maybe it`s said all it can say, and a new form is replacing it, and some of us just can`t let go.

I don`t know, but personally I`m gonna try to keep doing different things and keep on experimenting, and will definitely not sign up to one particular sub genre, developing the elitist atittude of "this is the best form of x".

[Lag]

i think these discussions lead to nothing
if someone wants to make good music - hes gonna make it
"not copying" is hardly any advice
anyone with half his brain wouldnt copy his fav artists and would go for something original
and if ure retarded and u do it - someone saying it to u doesnt really lead to some big realisation, does it? i mean, u being retarded and all...

[TechMouse]

and if ure retarded and u do it - someone saying it to u doesnt really lead to some big realisation, does it? i mean, u being retarded and all...
:lol:

"It's been staring me in the ****ing face... I'm patently a spastic..."

[MorePunkThanFunk]

To blame the distributors for all problems is ridiculous. They need the artists as much as the artists need them. If your distributor doesn't have faith in you then you probably shouldn't be with them, period. Trust me...coming from a bigger family of all entreprenuers, it's much harder to sell something you don't believe in.

very true, never had any problems with our distributor dictating the sound. but we don't have a p&d deal so if the release bombs we lose the cash.

[thetonewrecka]

It's all about hiring young children to create your music for you. Sub-contracting out the work for the fresh ideas. Nothing sounds more "fresh" to ones ears than something created by someone not knowing what they are doing.

[Alan Oldham]

It's all about hiring young children to create your music for you. Sub-contracting out the work for the fresh ideas. Nothing sounds more "fresh" to ones ears than something created by someone not knowing what they are doing.
There is a reason why Paul Birken is a genius.

[ERROR404]

IMO techno has lost a lot of its charm - that for me was the raw, quirky individual sound, where anything goes to certain extent.#
A lot of it has become forumulaic, with a 'paint by numbers' kind of approach. I belive the guilt lies equally between artists and producers:

Distros are reluctant to take a chance on something new because they are stuggling to make ends meet, compaies getting liquidated left right and centre and it is a financial risk for them to try something new, especially in todays digital culture.
Artists, some of whom are established and renowned sit on their laurels, content to reproduce their sound which made them, but reluctant to think outside the box and use their influence to redirect the music.

For unsigned artsits, it has got to be tricky to push a new soudn without pandering to some kind of normality - how can your music be heard if you are unsigned - how can you be signed when your music is not heard?

My thoughts anyway :)

[thetonewrecka]

Abba said it best "Take a chance on me"

@Error404 - your comment about unsigned artists having trouble getting signed. I would say that 90% of the "demos" that come to my label are just mp3 links in a email that tell me nothing about the artist and what they are trying to express. Now it is different if I send a request to someone and say "hey, send me some links to preview" because I'm expecting them then (usually after having many email conversations with the person I might be interested in). My point is that if more "new" producers took time to put together a small package with their tracks on a cd, a note about why they are sending the music to me to listen to, or possibly release and even their favorite cookie receipe, it would show me that they are serious about their music and trying to make a personal connection with someone to help broadcast that sound to others. There is nothing that will make me throw out an email faster than a "bulk" send type demo where I feel that the person sending it doesn't care where it comes out, or who puts it out.

My answer to taking things forward lies in artists reconnecting with labels and labels with the artists they work with and building the trust factor and understanding between. I know some of you are writing children's bedtime songs, or gameshow theme songs(but we'd never know it)...when will I get to hear them to put out as an inside cut alongside a blistering sonic mayhem workout?

[Jay Pace]

Abba said it best "Take a chance on me"

@Error404 - your comment about unsigned artists having trouble getting signed. I would say that 90% of the "demos" that come to my label are just mp3 links in a email that tell me nothing about the artist and what they are trying to express. Now it is different if I send a request to someone and say "hey, send me some links to preview" because I'm expecting them then (usually after having many email conversations with the person I might be interested in). My point is that if more "new" producers took time to put together a small package with their tracks on a cd, a note about why they are sending the music to me to listen to, or possibly release and even their favorite cookie receipe, it would show me that they are serious about their music and trying to make a personal connection with someone to help broadcast that sound to others. There is nothing that will make me throw out an email faster than a "bulk" send type demo where I feel that the person sending it doesn't care where it comes out, or who puts it out.

My answer to taking things forward lies in artists reconnecting with labels and labels with the artists they work with and building the trust factor and understanding between. I know some of you are writing children's bedtime songs, or gameshow theme songs(but we'd never know it)...when will I get to hear them to put out as an inside cut alongside a blistering sonic mayhem workout?

Thats really good advice.

Thanks man

[ERROR404]

Totally understand what you are saying :)

you missed the point of what i was trying to say - that being distributors will only continue to press new music if it sells. They know what sells and what doesn't, they are very cautious about picking up anything new incase it doesn't sell.
So my point was not that distributors / labels etc don't listen to new stuff, its that they are too wary of backing something unknown (for good reason). So essentially its a bit of a catch 22, dambed if you do, dambed if you don't. :cry:

[thetonewrecka]

*spins "wheel of blame" gamepiece

Oh...I have to take this phone call. I'll check back in when this thing stops spinning.

[crime]

distributors will only continue to press new music if it sells. They know what sells and what doesn't, they are very cautious about picking up anything new incase it doesn't sell.

this is generally why they go under..... when their whole catalogue bores you shitless...

[The Overfiend]

The future of hard techno is Peanut Butter Jelly Time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=areyUfCNFxY

[thetonewrecka]

hmmm. just wasn't doing it for me. The percussion was recorded with too low of compression and the eq was way off. I mean, did they even mic those f'ckin' maracas? His chant was a bit sloppy too over the beat and he changed it up at an odd point. I guess it really was piss poor.

[The Overfiend]

Nathan Fake Interview said:
Lots of people say that techno music is dead. That there can't be any progress anymore. What do u think about that and how do u see a future of techno in next few years?
It would be cool if techno died. Lots of people would be at a loose end.

[thetonewrecka]

This music stuff is the same as skateboarding..the fad fades in and out over the years and decades, but those who are hooked on the freedom of cheatin' gravity keep on laughing and rolling down the street while the others walk around. Nothing wrong with that.

You need to shake off the wanna-be clingers who are bringing down the ship when it's over capacity anyways, or the young guns need to stomp on the faces of their elders (if those old farts aren't strong enough to fend them off) to keep themselves afloat and make themselves heard.

I'm going to make some popcorn and watch it all shakedown.

[gunjack]

i would say be diverse, agil but not pliable. do your thing and stay true to your heart. dont take no for an answer. best i can give you off the top of my head about how to take your thing forward.

oh yea and dont get stuck in a batch of sounds/samples for the length of your career!

spend days making banks and effects BEFORE YOU COMPOSE!!!!

GJ

[thetonewrecka]

The sound creation is an invitation
for the preparation to become an alleviation
of what ails you and the community.

Through building sounds and tones
as sturdy as ones homes
you'll be as harmonius as Snow White and her Gnomes...er Dwarves.

[rowland the bastard]

Had distributors letting them do them

There's the quote of the century. Would be g8 to have the distro's let ppl do what they want but they dont.

get another distro! what on earth are you thinking? distro's have been running the roost along with mags for ****ing years! your alot better off doing your own distro these days, i mean at the end of the day its the artist perception on music NOT anyone elses.

personally i love the distorion and i love some monotomy (need a spell check on this forum hehe) it makes me go on my own journey in my head

[Little_Fella!]

Alot of really good stuff has been said already so I wont repeat & there's too many to quote....! :)

Because I am rather fresh to the scenario of me bein in the studio, learning new production techniques n how to use this that n the other new synth that I just got, means that my approach is fired up with enthusiasm... :cheese:

This fervour helps my creativity...

At the moment I am at the stage where I find or make a sound that I really like. Feel the mood that it gives me n then build the tune around it & give it a name. Then create a story in my head that I want the music to follow...

[Little_Fella!]

I just sit down and create a dance tune with various kick patterns...

As Techno is in my soul, (re 'Addicted to Techno thread), I am therefore making Techno...

Techno thats coming from the heart and mind of a person who really believes in its future.... :) ;)

[holotropik]

I concur with the idea of a "story in your head" little fella.
Each track I create has a picture and a feeling/ideal that
I construct with great detail in my head first.
Sometimes I can carry a track around in my head for
months before it is created...

[Patrick DSP]

how to take techno forward?

stop talking about it and do something!

[holotropik]

how to take techno forward?

stop talking about it and do something!

...yep, onit!

[DORYL_ROY]

Wel first and foremost id like to say a big hello to everyone on blackout audio. My name is Doryl Roy. I joined quite some time ago but for a while havnt had the net on my journey down to the big city of London. After just reading the opinions some of you hold i have decided to put my own two pence in seeing as alot of the opinions you have put out i hold myself. I know nothing of distribution or the politics within the dance music industry all i know is how i feel.
I think the first thing that people should ask themselves is what is hard techno. If anyone can tell me i wud like to know cuz ive been listening to it and i still dont know, ive been on store websites to stores and to me sum of it sounds more like hard house/hard dance than techno. Is it a particular sound, a particular feeling a particular place that evokes emotion, just what is it. i feel in order for anythign to move on there cant b boundaries or genres there jus has to be music. to me the problem arose from the first time someone said oh whats that, thats hard techno. people shouldnt worry about what they are making they should just make what they want to and if it falls under a particular genre then so b it but they shouldnt start off and say im gonna make hard techno cuz then everything will start sounding the same b cuz they feel they have to stick to certain sounds, tempo and arrangements. i here so many tracks nowadays that sound exactly the same and i think to myself there all these people who get to work in pro studios with all the equiptment at thier disposal and they come up with the same stuff. i say stuff because to me techno (not hard techno) is a feeling that goes on a journey and the so called hard techno i hear keeps u in the same place waiting for the mother ship to come beem u up but it never does (the point im trying to get here at is not to put labels on techno) sumone once quoted (not implying anyone on here) house is techno and techno is house i say fuk off techno is techno stop shackling the music. to move on the feeling has to come back simple as that. people say it needs to go back to the old school but the only thing the old school encapsulates is the vibe at th time and really and truly that vibe that was there will never come back a new wave and a new vibe has to b created. i dont believe u can sit around on your ass hoping its gonna come back cuz thats what the music cycle does if anything is gonna happen within hard techno or anyother techno genre the vibe has to be created and it has to start now. take everything so deep back underground that all the bullshit that surrounds the music goes. take it all off the radar completely then those who r true will be the only ones left then one day the music will come back as fresh as the day it first arrived but hey this is just my opinion and what do i know except how i feel.

[massplanck]

....take it all off the radar completely

:techno:

Doryl Roy in the motherfukkin house.


Big Welcome.

[Antinoise]

How can we take Hard Techno Foward?"

Well stop calling it 'hard' for a starter... and just let techno be techno.