VINYL WILL SURVIVE - Great Article!!

[Adrenalin]

Just got this from a friend and it's a very interesting read for all you vinyl traditionalists:

To EVERYONE who either a) Uses Cd's; b) uses vinyl; c) cares PLEASE READ THIS AWESOME ESSAY!

Vinyl Will Survive. Taken from Resident Advisor.
by Peter Chambers


You can’t make a rational case for choosing vinyl, and I wouldn’t – there isn’t a single one that’s compelling. Digital is cheaper, less wasteful, more malleable and far more portable. There’s virtually nothing to store, scratch, warp or shatter. Records meanwhile remain cumbersome, fragile and expensive. And yet, in spite of all this, I will continue buying, collecting, playing with and paying for the damned things, for as long as I’m willing and able to. Why?

Well, there are lots of reasons. First of all, it’s because vinyl has life. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not such a caner – I don’t think that my records are alive in the way my lover or my dog is. They don’t eat, drink, bark or bone. But, like us, they exist in space and through time – they have their own history, they wear their own scars, they need our care. They have a world.

When you dig for vinyl and you find something you’re looking for, you don’t just uncover the music. There’s a sense of connectedness, both of your desire to the sound and the sound’s embodiment in the object. Who knows the circumstances surrounding the original purchase? Maybe the record got sold because of a drug habit, a death, or a disappointment. Or maybe because of indifference. But in every case the piece you hold in your hands is the silent bearer of a story, a mute witness to whatever and wherever it went. It also carries the signal of its producers, embodying their dreams. I think Danny Wang said it once: second-hand record stores are such sad places. That’s because they’re dream graveyards. At one point, a group of people invested all their time and talent in making it. It was going to make them famous…

At the receiving end, the previous owners of a record invested their best hope in it too. So they chose it, they took it and kept it with them, and it slowly mapped itself into the web of their memories. Or they hated it, and flogged it. I don’t recall every intricacy of what I did last week, but I can tell you almost without fail the circumstances surrounding each record I own, and explain the resonance it has, what it evokes. It’s an object of music and of memory, and to me that gives it the true aura of an artefact, and makes it deserving of respect, reverence. I also love the presence of the music in the scratch. The groove is a perfect visual representation of the metaphor of what the thing is and does, and the music is there in a way that digital formats, even in whatever visual/waveform representations they use, aren’t. Functionally, this makes absolutely no difference. ‘Visual mixing’ of the kind now possible with digital obviously has advantages, but it’s always at a distance. Like talking through glass.


A lot of DJs' selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they’re unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.


Records are also incredibly sensual objects, and this has always been their advantage for mixing. Even with the abilities the new technologies have given us to loop, sample and freely choose key and pitch (which is in every way musically superior as an instrument) there’s no substitute for being able to touch, to play by feel. Serato and Final Scratch have overcome this limitation, but even in ‘the best of both worlds’ there’s more than a little of nowhere and nothing at all. Mp3 doesn’t even exist, at least, not in the way we and our records do. It’s a nothing and it exists nowhere but in blips on our portable nonplaces.

Crucially, choosing a track through drag and drop is utterly different to digging through a box with a very limited selection thoroughly and carefully chosen before leaving home, or so you’d hope. In fact, the irony of having a greater number of choices is that it’s invariably harder to choose, or easier to make do with default choices, which are not real choices at all. A lot of DJs’ selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they’re unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.

There’s no sacrifice involved in collecting digital formats either. Any two-bit chump can download a huge body of work in a matter of days, something that would have required a huge expenditure of time, effort and money on the part of a vinyl collector. When you go and see a veteran play her set, she’s carrying with her whole decades of memories whittled down to some eighty selections. Packing a box requires further sacrifice, further selection, further acts of will, respect and love. You have to think, choose, include, reject. Without these repeated sacrifices, it’s all to easy fall prey to the tyranny of ‘any old thing’. ‘Oh shit, I need a track with drums to mix out of this, um… shit, only sixteen bars to go, oh, okay, this’ll do…’ Click, click, drag, drop. You hope the audience won’t feel the difference, and you fool yourself that you feel anything at all. I wouldn’t argue that this is a necessary outcome of digital, but it’s going to happen far more often.

The same is true of Ableton: paradoxically the program’s incredible power, speed and flexibility means you can churn out an average tune, not even in a matter of hours, but on the fly. ‘You can do anything on Ableton’ and you can, but most people do less and less. They don’t make minimal, they make very little of a lot. In fact, in a turn of events that would shock grandpappy, it’s easier to record a track than to write a song. All too often it shows: lazy drum programming, boring melodies with no tension or development, and a screaming, dithering, swarming shitload of plugin effects to cook the tune in, so we don’t have to listen to the half-baked mess. And how good are you as a musician really, Mr DJ? Can you really perform with the same level of musicality that’s contained within a well-made record, something a talented, dedicated person invested everything in for days, weeks, months? Why not let the record play, if it’s a good one. If it’s not, no wonder you’re bored, no wonder you need to fiddle.

Back to the body – the other quiet crime of indifference that this ‘choice’ contains is the death of another related artform: cover art. One of the things that make records so valuable and beautiful is the incredible creativity that goes into a lot of the covers, even if it’s the artful details of the colours and fonts chosen on the plainest of my EPs, or the ‘mastered by X at the Exchange’ scratched into the run off. No doubt the artisans who manufactured gilt frames for heavy oil paintings mourned the passing of their time, and maybe all systems of artistic representation are not only bound to, but should wither and die. It’s still sad.

Like most ‘technological advancements’, digital isn’t an improvement of what went before, it’s a rationalisation. Never forget that. From a consumer point of view, CD wasn’t ‘better’ than vinyl, and at least until the mid-nineties, a well-pressed record played better through a good component system (again, all put together through individual choices) than most CDs, even with, and probably because of the sound artifacts and sub-audible frequencies in the record. We’re losing them, too. But they’re inaudible, right? Never forget, it was the ‘record’ companies, greedy to reduce distribution costs and fit more units on shelves, who pushed for CD, and we paid more for less. Three times the price for something a third of the size and a fraction of the cost to make. Now they’re reaping the whirlwind, and a big and happy **** you all.


Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records.


The technology might end up getting us over the barrel too: it isn’t ‘simply better’ – it’s a new entanglement that solves some problems and embroils us in others. I’m late finishing this article. That’s because, not three days ago, my Powerbook, on which I do, well, almost everything, decided to play Hungry Hungry Hard Drives and eat itself for breakfast. Luckily, all my media and documents are backed up – are yours? Don’t think it won’t happen. Houses burn and vinyl will too, but data loss is a completely new kind of risk. If any of you still have the XT you grew up with, go pull it out of the garage, turn it on and see if it still works. Then, take one of the diskettes with all your old games on ‘em and see if you can load them. Captain Comic, Space Quest, all those daggy old things. Remember them? The only story most of mine can tell me now is one that goes from beginning to end in three words: permanent fatal errors. Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records. They’re not dead, they’re elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing’s based on a bogus choice ‘vinyl or digital’. We don’t have to choose. I’ll eventually buy myself a digital interface and start using it, in conjunction with my records. But don’t expect me to love the interface. That’s a leap I’ll never make. Can you? Do you really ‘love’ your interface? Can you cherish a hard disk? I can only speak for myself and my records, the only musical objects I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of music in space and time. And that’s something that no data packet can ever do.

[module]

is this fact or opinion ?

[Adrenalin]

Both. It's a philosophical essay based on fact, observations and personal feelings.

[yeswehavetheright]

I enjoyed reading that. My sentiments too.

[holotropik]

Great article.
I guess its a personal perspective that mainly battles the issue
of how one connects to the interfaces available.
I grew up with PC/Technology so I have a connection to machines
and feel the same way about them as this chap does about vinyl.

I use hardware synths and I am very connected to them, they are almost alive to me.

horses for courses....

[audioinjection]

great article!

[RDR]

he knws what he likes doesnt he.

[module]

i got bored of that sh*t half way thru..

this guy/gal has a serious chip.. listen 'mate' i was a musician BEFORE i was a dj, so stick it. seriously, theres a lot of knocking going on here. your as much FOR vinyl, as you rae AGAINST digital.. and for all your 'it has a life force..' mystic nonsense, the truth is, its a format that is on its way out.

yes, i posted a link to an article heading the other way. fair do's. but this is very.. pretentious or righteous. the person seems to assume anyone who is for digital is a thief & a failed musician. the assumption that everyone who uses Ableton is lazy is jus so naff.

and as for the second hand garbage.. didi it ever occur to you some ppl jus got bored & wanted some space ?

sriously, is that an article or The Lost Manuscript of Jesus..

[holotropik]

hehehe....i concur module ;)

[module]

mmm.. i maybe overcooked it there lol

but i stand by my point.. even though my illustration of said point was as subtle as a brick in the face lol

[The Overfiend]

The same is true of Ableton: paradoxically the program’s incredible power, speed and flexibility means you can churn out an average tune, not even in a matter of hours, but on the fly. ‘You can do anything on Ableton’ and you can, but most people do less and less. They don’t make minimal, they make very little of a lot. In fact, in a turn of events that would shock grandpappy, it’s easier to record a track than to write a song. All too often it shows: lazy drum programming, boring melodies with no tension or development, and a screaming, dithering, swarming shitload of plugin effects to cook the tune in, so we don’t have to listen to the half-baked mess. And how good are you as a musician really, Mr DJ? Can you really perform with the same level of musicality that’s contained within a well-made record, something a talented, dedicated person invested everything in for days, weeks, months? Why not let the record play, if it’s a good one. If it’s not, no wonder you’re bored, no wonder you need to fiddle.



Has the person who composed this article ever done an Ableton set?
Djing with Ableton: Cheat
Live pa the way you should: Creative.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t even think DJing with ableton is cheating.

I mean, your still cuing up, but you are doing it electronically instead of with a piece of wax.

It shouldn`t even be an issue in 2006.

this guy needs to get back in his coffin.

[TechMouse]

Just out of interest: What will this guy do when we run out of the raw materials necessary to produce vinyl?

[holotropik]

Damn straight it should'nt be an issue in 2006.
At the end of the day
there is just heaps of options
with which to create all sorts
of farked up noise.....oh, joy :)

[fils_here]

great article & very interesting read, nice post dude :toast:

[Adrenalin]

Anyone believing that vinyl is going to die completely is living in a fantasy world. It will never die completely. There's more vinyl being pressed in the states now then in the '80's. It might not be electronic music being pressed, but it's still being pressed. Not all genres of music are going digital. Personally, I like using all formats, but there still isn't anything compared to a good ole' vinyl record.

[Trip Head]

Was an interesting/amusing read :)

[ERROR404]

the truth is, its a format that is on its way out.
..


lol - this was said when casettes became the standard in the 80's, then wiht CD's in the 90's.

Surely you are not nieve enough to think digital media will kill it?

[TechMouse]

Anyone believing that vinyl is going to die completely is living in a fantasy world. It will never die completely. There's more vinyl being pressed in the states now then in the '80's. It might not be electronic music being pressed, but it's still being pressed. Not all genres of music are going digital. Personally, I like using all formats, but there still isn't anything compared to a good ole' vinyl record.

Errr... you do realise we have a finite supply of the materials used to make vinyl?

It will run out one day. This is definite fact.

Think of all those crap records being pressed, using up our precious supplies of vinyl...

[ERROR404]

the technology already exists to make "plastic" out of Maize - it won't be the same polymer as the vinyl we know, but it will be the same to the naked eye

[Dustin Zahn]

Yeah, and you can also power cars off of maize as well. It's called E85 or Ethanol 85%. The downside is the amount of corn required. Speaking for USA terms, there isn't enough land to cultivate. Every home owner's yard in America would have to be converted into a corn field.

P.S. Yeah, one day vinyl materials could become sparse and run out in theory, but there will always be people playing and collecting old records, regardless of genre.

[TechMouse]

I think we should start melting down all the Eurotrance to conserve resources.

[Adrenalin]

And all the American pop crap. Who the hell is buying Hoovastank or Green Day on vinyl?! What a waste.

Also, a majority of todays records are pressed from RECYCLED vinyl, so the supply of materials to make records will take so long to deplete that we won't see it happen in our lifetimes or our children's lifetimes.

[Dustin Zahn]

Actually...a lot of pressing plants still claim to be pressing on virgin vinyl. I've heard of some cheap-ass nazi run establishments in Eastern Europe or something that do pressings really cheap and I think they probably recycle but thats just a guess. Plus, just because it's recycled doesn't mean it can keep being reused. Recycling processes in general are pretty inefficient but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I was talking with a certain techno/acid producer who makes his money by being the secret producer for an infamous pop remixer. He said the amount of PROMO vinyls that get cut are easily an average of 5,000 copies. We're talking shit like, Britney Spears/Madonna club remixes off of their own labels. It's easy to say that it's such a waste of materials on such bad music...but really a lot of those promos never touch a human's hands. Now that's a true waste of materials (regardless of music quality).

[Adrenalin]

True, there are a lot of new records being released on virgin vinyl. My friend just got a Black Sabbath box set on 180g virgin vinyl, but man, it was EXPENSIVE! I also saw some metal recs on virgin vinyl selling for $25 USD. Too much for my tastes.

And I agree with Dustin. The recycled sound quality isn't the best, but it's a step in the right direction. And any vinyl that never gets into an audiences hands, regardless of genre, is just blasphemy.

[Lag]

im not against vinyl
but imo, the text is absolute rubbish

[module]

the truth is, its a format that is on its way out.
..


lol - this was said when casettes became the standard in the 80's, then wiht CD's in the 90's.

Surely you are not nieve enough to think digital media will kill it?


man, its the cost. postage is going up, vinyl raw materials are becoing more expensive. its not a 'digital is better' argument, its every day fact. there isnt an infinite supply of oil, and hence the price is fluctuating day on day. i work in a petrol station, and the prices change with every delivery, generally going up.

yeah, i dig the argument. vinyl IS great. it IS a brilliant way to play dance music.. BUT, it is on its way out. and anyone who thinks i dont know its not jus electronica thats on vinyl is assuming incorrectly. many many indie bands & labels made their way via 7" but most of the djs i know playing other than dance are via digital.. cdjs, laptops.. even f*ckin iPods.. ive seen djs use 2 iPods..

dude, go check the '5 Favourite Mixes' i put in the Mixes forum.. the QIKMIX was done on vinyl & it can ONLY be done on vinyl.. cos i had to take a 12 from a sleeve, put it on a 1210, pitch it, cue it & mix it.. what i achieved there skill wise is null & void via Ableton.. and with cdjs, i can burn all the tracks on 2 discs not needin to even pull a track from a sleeve. and for that i LOVED vinyl.. but i reached a point where i had nowhere to push.. Ableton gives me a fresh challenge & a new curve to learn..

i love vinyl.. i still have my Motley Crue & GnR albums.. ALL vinyl.. but as a format & medium for dance music, vinyl IS approaching its end.. not today.. maybe not tomoro.. or next month.. or next year.. but it IS limited. FACT. jus look at the number of distro's that caved in the last 5 years..

[module]

the technology already exists to make "plastic" out of Maize - it won't be the same polymer as the vinyl we know, but it will be the same to the naked eye

dude, i have had 2 records pressed on this stuff and it is crap.. total rubbish. expensive & very very delicate. i even got a guy to put a commercial cd track on one of them to check if it was as bad.. thinkin my production wasnt mastered for vinyl, it aint gonna sound right. but even a commercially produced cd sounded awful. yes, it wasnt mastered speciffacilly FOR vinyl, but still.. the stuff looks, feels & sounds very very sub par.. given the choice, i'd use a cdj over a 'pseudo vinyl' press any day..

[davethedrummer]

he does go on a bit doesn't he? :coffee:

[davethedrummer]

Actually...a lot of pressing plants still claim to be pressing on virgin vinyl. I've heard of some cheap-ass nazi run establishments in Eastern Europe or something that do pressings really cheap and I think they probably recycle but thats just a guess. Plus, just because it's recycled doesn't mean it can keep being reused. Recycling processes in general are pretty inefficient but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I was talking with a certain techno/acid producer who makes his money by being the secret producer for an infamous pop remixer. He said the amount of PROMO vinyls that get cut are easily an average of 5,000 copies. We're talking shit like, Britney Spears/Madonna club remixes off of their own labels. It's easy to say that it's such a waste of materials on such bad music...but really a lot of those promos never touch a human's hands. Now that's a true waste of materials (regardless of music quality).


to be honest dustin i think most pressing plants in europe use at least 50% recycled vinyl anyway.

i just don't think its financially viable any more to press only virgin vinyl
and from what i've heard a certain amount of recycled stuff mixed in actually IMPROVES the quality. so long as it is recycled carefully and no paper gets in there.

[davethedrummer]

he does go on a bit doesn't he? :coffee:

sorry... i meant the original article at the beginning of this thread

[module]

Trax Records in Chicago was all recycled vinyl. didnt do them any hassle :)

[Little_Fella!]

I really liked the article...

I once had the same passion as him for vinyl and the points and feelings towards this medium are all very valid...

Now I am passionate about my Korg ESX1 n mi laptop and all it has to offer...!

I think he is misguided in regards to Ableton etc. but his reference to MP3's n the like being a lifeless medium with vastly reduced tangable connectivity to the artist certainly have merit, imo....

Hang on there, I'm sure I put the kettle on! :lol:

[MARKEG]

i loved the article. i do think the comment about ableton was a little uninformed but my god, you gotta admire this guy's passion. and tbh, all these mp3's etc do feel like air to me. i was actually doing my 6 monthly clean up of my studio recently and whereas I have a small 'shit' pile for records that I try to sell (but never happens) and a 'good' pile that i immediately file in one of my record rooms, when i went through the cd's it was like 80% in the bin cause they're either burned from hard drive or shite. the only cd's i keep are really albums and even those could be put on hard drive if i had the time.

it's all a bit sad living your life off a hard drive if you ask me. people always said dance music was throw away and now it REALLY IS!!! in fact, all music is!!!

i really want vinyl to stay but alas, I'm not sure it will. what I do think is we need a completely new format. something that takes the good things about mp3's and packages it into a saleable product. it will happen. the music industry will make it, they just need to wait till the hype around free music stops....

until then, i will be regularly using both vinyl and mp3 together to make my sets as good and upfront as they can be ;)

[module]

in my case, i dont play OTHER ppls MP3.. i use Ableton & cdjs & pc's to play my trax & loops.. so i dont have this 'MP3 is hollow & lifeless' thing.. and i always use WAV too ;)

in reference to that guy, i dont think he is a 'djs dj' if ya get me.. i dont think he plays dance music the way i used to or EG does for example.. beat mixing etc.

i admire ppls passion when it dfoesnt involve rubbishing other ppls passion. if he loves vinyl, thats cool, but why does he have to knock an Ableton fan ?

[TechMouse]

I just read that the petroleum by-product which is key to the production of vinyl is to be eliminated from the refinement process.

Dunno how much truth there is in that... will try and find some info.

[ERROR404]

Yeah, and you can also power cars off of maize as well. It's called E85 or Ethanol 85%. The downside is the amount of corn required. Speaking for USA terms, there isn't enough land to cultivate. Every home owner's yard in America would have to be converted into a corn field.

P.S. Yeah, one day vinyl materials could become sparse and run out in theory, but there will always be people playing and collecting old records, regardless of genre.

is that based on the 3 gallons a day of crude the average Amercian uses daily? :razz:
lol - no point taken, its not an effective solution at the moment, but with a greater R&D input it could be a viable future for polymer manufacturing... hopefully :cry:

[Miromiric]

error404 - we meet yet again. birmingham`s gayest.

[massplanck]

Is it more environmentally friendly to use mp3's or vinyl?

I'm going with mp3. The amount of power it takes to make & distribute one seems to me to be minute in comparision to the heavy duty production & shipping of vinyl.

[ERROR404]

up to no good again i see ;)

thats why i love it here :love:

[eyeswithoutaface]

this isnt an article, its basically one person's opinion, but extended. No different to what gets posted on these boards. There are no fact's or logical arguments in it, just a guy who loves his vinyl and doesnt wanna see it cease production, which strangely enough, is just the same as EVERYONE else no matter what side of the fence your on with the cd vs vinyl arguement. There is no escaping hard truth such as one day, the core ingredient needed to produce vinyl and vinyl products will one day run out, and production will slowly cease of vinyl and vinyl by products, etc etc. If someones gonna take part in the old vinyl will die/no it wont debate, they should at least seperate from personal opinion and logical fact

[ERROR404]

thats the point though. there is no 'fact' as to whether vinyl will survive or not, it has to be opinion,
He never expresses his opinions as 'fact'

[eyeswithoutaface]

the wording and the title of this thread insinuate that this article is something of the hardline when it comes to this argument, no one said that this guy say's this is fact, but its, in my opinion of course, an overblown blog that doesnt really say anything that hasnt been said before.

ok there is no fact as to wether it will survive, but lets say there are stronger arguments when looking at the fact, and it really is just that, the products needed to create vinyl will one day run out completely, i'd say definately NOT in our lifetime, but one day it will it's a non-renewable energy source, and then slowly, over, i'd imagine, a long and steady period of time reserves will dry up, and the by products of oil will start to cease production, with the lesser important/poorest quality by products being ousted first, and vinyl is one of the lowest quality by products of oil.

hopefully by then something will have come along with the benefits of mp3/the digital age, but in a sellable format like mark said, something people can physically buy and play to keep that nostalgia going etc etc i really could only speculate and hope on that front

to put it simply in my opinion i think vinyl will not cease production in our lifetime, or certainly in people's "career" span, say the next 20, 30 years or something, but i do think it will, overall, eventually cease to be produced.

i have to admit at much as i still love vinyl, i have purposely moved myself out of the solely producing for vinyl frame of mind and it has certainly helped my production too and opened my mind up to all sorts of other idea's. It's great getting records back in the post all pressed up but ultimately i think overall these days alot more people are becoming pleased that they can just at least get their music out there, be it on vinyl, mp3, netlabel, CD etc etc

which is what it's all about really :)

[Jay Pace]

Weird article

He basically sounds like an antique collector with a plastic fetish - "I love to caress the black plastics sensual curves and muse to myself about all the lives, the loves and the sorrows of the people who have owned the records before me"
What a weiner.

If that geek is the future of vinyl, I'm melting down all my records on principle.
And fashioning them into a giant digital robo-cock.

[Remade]

Horses die too, but not all at once. They go slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with your horse. They’re not dead, they’re elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing’s based on a bogus choice ‘horse or a car’. We don’t have to choose. I’ll eventually buy myself a car and start using it, in conjunction with my horse. But don’t expect me to love the car. That’s a leap I’ll never make. Can you? Do you really ‘love’ your car? Can you cherish the wheel? I can only speak for myself and my horses, the only animals I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of transportation in space and time. And that’s something that no car can ever do.


When you substitute the words 'vinly' and 'mp3' with some outdated dilemma you can see this is just one man's struggle with progress.
Use vinly, use digital, in 2006 who really cares.

[module]

see.. thats the rub innit. some ppl are stuck on the 'digital v vinyl' debater, but thats not the issue. the issue is rising cost & depleating raw material.

that guy IS a vinyl fanatic.. hes not talking a balance, hes simply punting HIS view & knocking anything else.

i dont think vinyl will jus stop dead. i think it will phase out slowly. and who knows whts around the corner in the format wars. 10 years ago, did u see Ableton coming ? i didnt.

if ppl wanna discuss the 'vinyl v digital' aspect thats cool. but i dont think MP3 etc will be the reason for the death of vinyl as a medium. it will be a complex combination of price & raw material & usability.

for example, i think the new postage system in UK is gonna up the cost of buying records online. the record isnt any more expensive, but the means of purchase & shipment will increase.

there are many many pro's & cons to digital & vinyl, and these arent the reasons for one superceeding the other, they are reasons for preference.

personally, i want to see techno (and all electronic music) move forward, and not jus in musicallity, also in the way we can use/abuse it.. does anyone really wanna see techno STILL exclusively a vinyl orientated genre 10 years from now ? i dont. i want it to move.. even if i dont like all the progressions, at least it IS moving.

[Spire]

I think this thread shows how mentally insane we all are about our little hobbie we like to call "techno". Most people who aren't into to techno would probably come to this forum and think, "Jesus, these ****s are pretty obsessive about this techno shit of theirs...". >;D

[ERROR404]

Agreed Module, who actually cares as long as the music continues to find new directions and innovate as it always has. My only gripe with the digital revolution is that is has allowed so many more talentless 'DJ' types to be able to churn out mainstream, boring music in a fashion that ignorant promoters can't find fault in becasue it is seamlessly mixed, albeit unbelieveably and disgracefully unimaginatively. Its opened the door to the waves of wannabe bedroom DJs who litter the smaller nights of our lands, weakening our music by boring their audiences into thinking thats what its all about. rant over :p

[TechMouse]

Horses die too, but not all at once. They go slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with your horse. They’re not dead, they’re elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing’s based on a bogus choice ‘horse or a car’. We don’t have to choose. I’ll eventually buy myself a car and start using it, in conjunction with my horse. But don’t expect me to love the car. That’s a leap I’ll never make. Can you? Do you really ‘love’ your car? Can you cherish the wheel? I can only speak for myself and my horses, the only animals I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of transportation in space and time. And that’s something that no car can ever do.
Dude, you got some weird horse thing going on.

[dan the acid man]

I think this thread shows how mentally insane we all are about our little hobbie we like to call "techno". Most people who aren't into to techno would probably come to this forum and think, "Jesus, these **** are pretty obsessive about this techno shit of theirs...". >;D

haha, although you'd get the same discussions on any music forum, i think

[Miromiric]

Horses die too, but not all at once. They go slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with your horse. They’re not dead, they’re elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing’s based on a bogus choice ‘horse or a car’. We don’t have to choose. I’ll eventually buy myself a car and start using it, in conjunction with my horse. But don’t expect me to love the car. That’s a leap I’ll never make. Can you? Do you really ‘love’ your car? Can you cherish the wheel? I can only speak for myself and my horses, the only animals I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of transportation in space and time. And that’s something that no car can ever do.




dude, this is seriously gay.

[Sunil]

dude, this is seriously gay.

Go back to Ableton you.

[Sunil]

Vinyl is going to stay a struggle for smaller labels. It's going to continue to sell decently for other labels, and to be pressed as normal by the bigger labels and majors.

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

[Jay Pace]

The day I get to release anything on vinyl will be a happy, happy day for me.

Still more kudos with a plastic release. Despite the fact that I would't play it myself, its a benchmark knowing that someone thought you were worth it.

[Miromiric]

i choose vinyl as a medium of presenting my work to the world simply because it is still the choice of the most, regardless of how gay i think vinyl is.

[Remade]

Horses die too, but not all at once. They go slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with your horse. They’re not dead, they’re elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing’s based on a bogus choice ‘horse or a car’. We don’t have to choose. I’ll eventually buy myself a car and start using it, in conjunction with my horse. But don’t expect me to love the car. That’s a leap I’ll never make. Can you? Do you really ‘love’ your car? Can you cherish the wheel? I can only speak for myself and my horses, the only animals I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of transportation in space and time. And that’s something that no car can ever do.




dude, this is seriously gay.

so is the original article

[Komplex]

haha, what a wanky pile of turd that article. get with the times asshole :)

[Komplex]

i choose vinyl as a medium of presenting my work to the world simply because it is still the choice of the most, regardless of how gay i think vinyl is.

thing is, ur not presenting it to the world, you're presenting it to a very small minority. Vinyl is cool, but it isn't practical and thats what sucks in the end :(

[Remade]

Additionally, it is not the vinly or digital as a medium that is the problem. It is the fact that some people only wish to increase the size of their E-penis. Vinly is a physical object that has history attached to it and can easily showcase one's awesomeness. Mp3 is not.
Additionally additionally it is very inspiring to see 4 pages of posts about the medium and not about the content.

[Jay Pace]

I don't like music.
I like plastic.
Oh, the plastic. The plastic. The plastic.

[massplanck]

warning! suicide bomber alert. everyone get the fukk out of this thread fast.

[Spire]

Additionally, it is not the vinly or digital as a medium that is the problem. It is the fact that some people only wish to increase the size of their E-penis. Vinly is a physical object that has history attached to it and can easily showcase one's awesomeness. Mp3 is not.
Additionally additionally it is very inspiring to see 4 pages of posts about the medium and not about the content.

That's so true. That's like a movie director obsessing about what kind of TVs and movie screens his movie will play on but hasn't even made the movie yet. What ****ing difference does it make? Focus on the part that counts, THE IDEA. Communicate an idea, concept, an emotion with your MUSIC, not the medium. For us as techno producers to be obsessing about vinyl's death is like a high school football player obsessing about the NFL dying... you probably won't make it to the NFL anyway so shut the hell up and play football RIGHT NOW. YOU'RE THINKING TOO FAR AHEAD, THINK ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

[eyeswithoutaface]

Additionally, it is not the vinly or digital as a medium that is the problem. It is the fact that some people only wish to increase the size of their E-penis. Vinly is a physical object that has history attached to it and can easily showcase one's awesomeness. Mp3 is not.
Additionally additionally it is very inspiring to see 4 pages of posts about the medium and not about the content.

That's so true. That's like a movie director obsessing about what kind of TVs and movie screens his movie will play on but hasn't even made the movie yet. What **** difference does it make? Focus on the part that counts, THE IDEA. Communicate an idea, concept, an emotion with your MUSIC, not the medium. For us as techno producers to be obsessing about vinyl's death is like a high school football player obsessing about the NFL dying... you probably won't make it to the NFL anyway so shut the hell up and play football RIGHT NOW. YOU'RE THINKING TOO FAR AHEAD, THINK ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

whilst good in theory, i know alot of producers who produce solely for non-vinyl formats simply because it allows them to introduce certain aspects into production that producing for vinyl does not, such as stereo bass and other effects. So to simply say dont think about the format concentrate on the music isnt really fair, as the producers who actually are pushing to get their music pressed and not just doing it solely as a hobby or for fun need to incorporate both when producing certain tracks and striving for certain effects and what not

its still a good debate this whole thread, but just am feeling that this is going round in circles, and at a ratio of like a whole thread a month hehe

im off to make some records errr vinyl errr plastic ARGGGHHH

[BRADLEE]

well, I can't say that I know what the future will be. All I do know is that we must adapt no matter what changes come about. That's part of it all isn't it? Sure I'd be sad to see the records go, cause it's loads more fun to DJ that just do a laptop set or something. However with costs and low sales, who knows where things will go just yet. Only time will tell.

[Sunil]

haha, what a wanky pile of turd that article. get with the times asshole :)

How is he an asshole?

I prefer vinyl and can't see myself converting to digital files, am I not with the times then?

Just read the article there, and it's clear to see that the writer holds a lot of sentimentality for vinyl alright, but he sees too many factors involved with vinyl and playing vinyl that makes him prefer it. Granted he does generalise a bit in his slur against lazy DJs using Ableton, he does make some important points.

[crime]

when I hear all this about vinyl dying, I always think
Question a) Who buys techno music? Generally Techno DJs
Question b) what do you find when you walk into a club dj box? Technics 1200/1210s

I rest my case...

[Jay Pace]

OK, but consider...

Question c) How many djs use cds and ableton?
Question d) How many djs have ditched vinyl for digital in the last few years?

Just because its the status quo now, doesn't mean that it will always be this way.
Look at what kids are buying as a barometer of the scene. Us oldies aren't buying any more than normal (far from it) and kids are more comfortable with digital. This is bad news for vinyl.

I'm sure you will always be able to request turntables when you dj, but it wouldn't suprise me if it stopped being the norm in 5/10 years.

[holotropik]

I would be rich man if i had a dollar
for everytime i have seen this merry-go-round....

...me dizzy....plonk :~

[TechMouse]

If I had £1 for each time this discussion had come up, I could probably buy a pair of CDJ-1000s.

[holotropik]

hehehehe....nice one ;)

[holotropik]

fwiw
we are starting a label here in OZ
and will use all formats regardless...

why not use everything possible
in order to get the sounds out there
everywhere :)

[module]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???



jees u kids ;)

[module]

Additionally, it is not the vinly or digital as a medium that is the problem. It is the fact that some people only wish to increase the size of their E-penis. Vinly is a physical object that has history attached to it and can easily showcase one's awesomeness. Mp3 is not.
Additionally additionally it is very inspiring to see 4 pages of posts about the medium and not about the content.

That's so true. That's like a movie director obsessing about what kind of TVs and movie screens his movie will play on but hasn't even made the movie yet. What **** difference does it make? Focus on the part that counts, THE IDEA. Communicate an idea, concept, an emotion with your MUSIC, not the medium. For us as techno producers to be obsessing about vinyl's death is like a high school football player obsessing about the NFL dying... you probably won't make it to the NFL anyway so shut the hell up and play football RIGHT NOW. YOU'RE THINKING TOO FAR AHEAD, THINK ABOUT RIGHT NOW.


thats jus keek... if vinyl DOES die, techno wont, it will have severl billion pieces of vinyl already about & many other formats.. thats a sh*t comparison man... totally flawed.

[crime]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???



jees u kids ;)

http://www.epsilonminus.com/somethingawful/internetchampion.jpg

[module]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???



jees u kids ;)

http://www.epsilonminus.com/somethingawful/internetchampion.jpg


:lol:

NICE WAN GEEEZA LOL

[Sunil]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???



jees u kids ;)

Well Grandpa, you go and ask someone in a mastering house or pressing plant how worried they are about the oil situation. The year it's running out and there's no oil for vinyl then we can talk about it, 'til then keep schtum geeza ;)

[module]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???



jees u kids ;)

Well Grandpa, you go and ask someone in a mastering house or pressing plant how worried they are about the oil situation. The year it's running out and there's no oil for vinyl then we can talk about it, 'til then keep schtum geeza ;)



ooo-er... yesh bosh ;)

[crime]

:lol:

NICE WAN GEEEZA LOL

I was actually being sarcastic...
I just thought it in better taste than the "arguing on the internet is like the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded"

Oil will run out, but I doubt it will be until the end of our lifetimes at least...

you just like arguing on the internet, do you not have anything more usefull to do with your time? Obviously not....

[crime]

in fact, this thread just seems to be full of people who want to shout about the fact that they have embraced "the internet revolution" to justify the fact they spend their lives in front of a computer screen day in day out.. Go outside, it's nice out, y'know?

[Jay Pace]

No need to be so condescending.

You took the time to argue on this thread - why criticise others for doing so?

[crime]

No need to be so condescending.

More like "Cynically giggling"...


You took the time to argue on this thread - why criticise others for doing so?

I just think it ridiculous that people want to argue the same points over and over again on forums, then again maybe I should go outside too..

if vinyl dies it dies, if it lives it lives, so what, just get on with it...

[crime]

and I'd like to add, I quite like records actually, would be sad to see them go...

[Jay Pace]

if vinyl dies it dies, if it lives it lives, so what, just get on with it...

Bang on point.

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah not really fair to criticise people who obviously all share the same passion for vinyl here, i dont remember seeing anyone actually putting they want vinyl to go, just some people are more realistic than others and realise that some day, it's pretty likely that one generation of producers are going to be unable to use vinyl as a medium. Nothing more, nothing less really.

what i tend to do when i realise im going over the same ground with discussions like this is just concentrate on something more important, or relevant to the "now" as it were. usually helps :)

[module]

in fact, this thread just seems to be full of people who want to shout about the fact that they have embraced "the internet revolution" to justify the fact they spend their lives in front of a computer screen day in day out.. Go outside, it's nice out, y'know?

yes, i know you were being sarcy.. and condescending & righteous..

so, to quote eric cartman 'suk ma ballssss'

:razz:

[module]

fao EVERY-F*CKIN ONE..

if ya dont like this subject stop f*ckin readin & posting :)

[crime]

so, to quote eric cartman 'suk ma ballssss'

:razz:
Present them... :cheese:

[ERROR404]

I think the vinyl vs digital debate should be left alone for a few years, we're not far enough into the supposed digital takeover to judge if vinyl will be totally wiped out. Also, the oil issue isn't worth talking about now either. Lets wait to see if any of these things do actually happen, and within our lifetime... then talk about it!

see again... its NOT about which is better, its about which will be still be viable to produce.. MP3 does not need raw material, vinyl does.. and in these times, that raw material is in a precarious state..

ITS NOT ABOUT DIGITAL V VINYL, ITS ABOUT THE MATERIALS TO PRODUCE VINYL..

HELLO ???? ANYONE ACTUALLY TAKIN THIS IN ???

The time when oil will run out is a long long way in the future. 40-50 years at least. Vinyl will be tested as a viable medium in other ways long long before there are no materials to produce it... i think you've been hugging to many trees Module :lol:

jees u kids ;)

[ERROR404]

WTF happened there? dammit, need an edit button