Question about notes / pitches

[auditory hallucinations]

Hey

Getting a bit stuck when it comes to writing the non-percussive stuff. My knowledge of music theory is pretty basic, but I don't mind learning more if I can get pointed in the right direction.

Basically, I can put some decent loops together, but when it comes to say writing an acid line over the top, or even just some bleepy synth thing, I get stuck over what notes to use. Obviously do what sounds good would be the obvious advice, but I'd like to know how peeps go about writing this stuff…the major scale just sounds sterile, minor well it sounds ok - does anyone use modes at all, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I guess what I'm really getting at is if I spin a decent techno track over the top of my loops (eg an old hardfloor track I was listening to last night) they have this lovely dark vibe going on. I'm not sure if it comes down to the notes being used, or maybe even detuning the synths a bit, but I'd love to know how to get at that mood at bit more rather than it just sounding like a cheese-fest.

Thanks

[rhythmtech]

sorry for the obvious advice but unless you understand differant scaling then all you can go on is what sounds good. i've been playing music in differant forms since i was 7 or 8 and i still go on what sounds good.. its a bugger really..

[RDR]

This is a great site i use for teahcing with

http://www.musictheory.net/

http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/theory/theory.htm

http://www.emusictheory.com/practice.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory

http://www.chordwizard.com/theory.html

HTH!

[auditory hallucinations]

Thanks for the advice. I've been endlessly searching the web for this kind of thing and have come across a few of those sites. they are helpful, and i've now got a basic understanding of scales, chords etc from them - but (obviously) none of them relate to techno, not even electronica really.

So maybe what i'm more after are the scales, chords and modes peeps use to compose techno. i know it must vary quite a bit, but there must be some more favoured ones than others.

As a seperate issue, i've been stuggling to get my primevil brain round the subject of tuning. on my 303, the tuning knob at it's centre position means (from reading the wonky manual) that the synth is tuned to A. Fair enough then. So it all harmonises and A = A and C = C, if you get me.

But the fact the knob exists must mean you can tune the synth into a different note / pitch. So would C = something else, then? So can this maybe be setup to get a darker flavour going on?

[danielmarshall]

Detuning is playing a number of oscilators slightly offset in pitch and combining them back together to create artificial harmonics. The tune knob on the TB is used to tune the synth into whatever else you're using, or do a simple transposition. Transposition doesn't really alter the way something sounds relative to it's context, it lowers or raises the key. So Mary Had a Little Lamb will have the same sound in the key of A as in the key of C for example.. magor. The feel is dependant on the scale, not the key.

[auditory hallucinations]

ok cool, that helps. so what scales have a suitable mood / feel for techno. major seems too bright, minor a bit sad...are modes the way forward, and if so which ones?

i heard that the whole tone scale gives good results for acid lines. but where i get confused is how to harmonise it - say you made an acid line for the whole tone scale, i dunno but let's say a loop using c, e# & f# - then how would you fit this against a background chord? or do you just have to forget using a chord under it? confused!

[theledge]

I don't think you really have to worry too much about it, as said above, just go with what sounds good to your ear. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of techno records are produced by ear, not by referring to any preexisting scales or modes.

Having said that, I personally think that learning about music theory - and the subjects that tend to naturally follow on like acoustics, and certain bits of music philosophy - is a fascinating thing to get into in its own right :)

[eyeswithoutaface]

listen to some music that uses chords and scales predominently, even techno by the likes of UR or more specifically Los Hermanos, Galaxy To Galaxy where its more actual songwriting going on in places. Not wishing to state the obvious, but certain chords go together well, some dont, but they all follow a pattern in their respective keys. C, F and G are probably the 3 most common chords, with E, A and B after that. Then you have the minor keys, augmented keys, diminished keys etc etc. Really is a whole lot more complex than just playing it by ear, which does work, but if you want to right really solid, well written, well structured synth lines/chord patterns etc it really would do a world of good to get a good chunk of music theory, chord structures and scales learnt. Playing an instrument certainly helps, ive played guitar for 14 years so it all comes quite naturally now, but i remember first starting off thinking "WTF!!!!!!!!!", but now i could run through the whole scale of the chords in most keys including their minor, diminished, augmented 7th's etc etc, and im glad i can, as it brings a whole new dimension to producing.

check out some stuff by John Beltran too, he is a brilliant producer and has an amazing ear for melody and structure

[danielmarshall]

One way of figuring out which scale you're after without having any music theory knowlage is to simply hook up an arpegiator. Then hit record and start mashing that keyboard. Eventually you'll find something that fits, even if the notes are out of order. Hit stop, crop the chord that did the trick in your sequencer and start moving the notes that make that chord up around till they form some sort of sequence that is pleasing to the ear...

[RDR]

Its all about experimentation.

Learn the rules - then ignore them.

[loopdon]

check this out, mate:

http://www.chordspace.com/ChordSpaceindex.htm

it's free and there are guiudes on how to set it up in your host of choice. i saw a video too which was absolutely mad :)

i am getting into this aspect more and more but still find myself falling back to 'what sounds good is good'.

[Grenoybel]

This mite be handy too, don't use it much myself at the moment, still doing my stuff by what sounds good (to me), but probably will use it sonner or later.

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

http://www.apassion4jazz.net/keys.html

plenty of scales and chords for the like

[acidsaturation]

One way of figuring out which scale you're after without having any music theory knowlage is to simply hook up an arpegiator. Then hit record and start mashing that keyboard. Eventually you'll find something that fits, even if the notes are out of order. Hit stop, crop the chord that did the trick in your sequencer and start moving the notes that make that chord up around till they form some sort of sequence that is pleasing to the ear...


Was gonna say that idea. Gives a good starting point for experimentation and things'll start to make sense if you do this in conjunction with learning/reading a bit.

[Jak]

This is a great site i use for teahcing with

http://www.musictheory.net/

http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/theory/theory.htm

http://www.emusictheory.com/practice.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory

http://www.chordwizard.com/theory.html

HTH!

great tools here. was just surfing for something of interest and found this thread. informative stuff..thanks for sharing.

[loopdon]

try this as well

http://www.ravenspiral.com/ravenspiralguide.pdf

[bmovie]

check this out, mate:

http://www.chordspace.com/ChordSpaceindex.htm

it's free and there are guiudes on how to set it up in your host of choice. i saw a video too which was absolutely mad :)

i am getting into this aspect more and more but still find myself falling back to 'what sounds good is good'.

+1 for this great plugin
Also checkout Tonespace:
http://www.mucoder.net/tonespace/index_files/image001.gif
http://www.mucoder.net/tonespace/