getting an agent. whens the right time?

[rhythmtech]

been thinking bout this a lot lately.

although im getting plenty of gigs over here in ireland its very hard to get anything sorted for uk and europe as its impossible to network in person. was thinking the time might be right to try and get an agent as my third release is due anyday now.. maybe its too soon?

anyone got any experiences with agents, advice on who might be suited or general opinions on the matter?

thanx

[dan the acid man]

i think if you have the time to do it yourself, then keep doing it yourself

[rhythmtech]

time isnt the problem though.. i have more than enough time to organise my gigs.. but outside of ireland and uk i really dont know any promoters.. and its very disheartening when email after email dont get replies.. whereas an agent would have the network already there..

i'd still look after my own gigs here though

[eyeswithoutaface]

with all due respect, you'd have to be someone pretty well on their way to being massive already to have an actual agent take you on. It's agencies who you should target if you wanna go through that route. I personally wouldnt, it's a personal thing i'd say i wouldnt trust anyone else to sort out my stuff for me in any respect, agencies are different in the sense that if you want to just pull in as many gigs as possible they will no doubt help you, but you have to work alot harder to make them wanna keep hold of you. 3 releases in probably wont tempt many of them unless your a really, really good dj too who is likely to bring enough gigs in to make their 10% or whatever it is 10% of something worthy. Business comes into it alot more as soon as agencies are involved.

good thread actually, food for thought at least. I personally wouldnt really wanna sign with an agency but i'm not pushing myself in the sense of wanting to be out gigging every weekend so i'm happy.

be interesting to see how u get on if you do approach a few, let us know mate

[rhythmtech]

well i'll see what happens.. might leave it till new year.. theres another few releases planned for after xmas and one is quite big so that might het me a bit more attention?

[eyeswithoutaface]

well how big the producer deems their next release to be wont matter much at all to an agency, they would want to see it sell very well and for the next few eps to do just as well to be convinced that your worth taking on. That coupled with great skills as a dj etc etc. There are all kinds of reasons how people get onto agencies, dont forget alot consist of tight knit groups of friends who probably arent even bringing it that many bookings, but are able to at least SAY they are an agency, if you get me? It's different with say the top agencies like Dynamix where their artists are all proven at what they do

[The Overfiend]

I think you should do what you feel is more condusive to your own career.
If you feel obtaining an agent would help further your chances of getting booked, which via the monster called networking may help.
Then so be it.
At the end of the day your releases serve as a promotional tool to your dj career in some instances.
But if you truly feel you have the talent and the chops to hang with the big boys then I see no reason to hold yourself back and not obtain a booking agent.

[The Overfiend]

It's all about initiative in the present state of things.
Everything is a risk.

[rhythmtech]

@ eyes:

its more the label thats big rather thhen me thinking thhat the release is gonna be big (unfortunatly, much as i would love to, in this day and ahe i havent a clue if it will be a big seller), but i do get where you're coming from.

@ sam:

you're right, everything is a risk these days but hopefully some agencies are willing to take a risk.. i cant see how taking on an artist is any big outlay for an agency (but then again i dont know the ins and outs of how they work).

does anyone know of any agencies?

the only ones i know of or have dealt with are

kinetic djz (space djz, inigo kennedy etc)
sufcollective
and 1 or 2 more i cant remember off the top of my head..

maybe someone knows some smaller agencies?

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah agreed everything is a risk these days, Intergroove going down the other day just backs that up really. You will probably just get alot of conflicting opinions on this thread actually because i think agencies are a bit kinda "marmite" if you get me.

[RDR]

yeah agreed everything is a risk these days, Intergroove going down the other day just backs that up really. You will probably just get alot of conflicting opinions on this thread actually because i think agencies are a bit kinda "marmite" if you get me.

eh..

when did intergrove go down? missed that one (reminds self to not bury head in sand...)

[RDR]

Just read about it now... christ thats bad news...

its one thing after another these days isnt it..

what next?

[ant]

Ello mate. Just checking the new BOA site properly and I caught onto this thread. Thought Id shine some light onto it.
The first thing to bear in mind (and this is a big mis-conception about agencies) is that 99.99% of agencies rule of thumb is that they don't promote the artist. They are simply there for handling bookings. Yes there are things such as websites etc to "advertise" the agency, its artists and its existence, but you'll find that very little, if any money gets put into actually "promoting" the artists individually. This is 100% up to them.
Yes, agencies have a big book of contacts and is a good networking platform but most of the time (not always) its one way traffic. i.e. promoters getting in touch with the agent. When people get in contact to book an artist, they are normally very specific about who they want and if that artist is unavailable, things either get filtered through the remaining free artists on that date, or the promoter decides to change the date. I think what im trying to say is that joining an agency will not get you more work. Its purely booking representation.
Of course there are benefits as well as downsides. If the demand is there, an agency will take all the stress out of negociating dates, flights, money, visas etc... a godsend in my opinion! One of the downsides though, is that an agency will frown upon you doing your own bookings. You either have to be 100% on it or 100% off it. This is a necessity with any agency. Firstly, it eliminates the embarrasing situation of being booked for 2 different gigs on the same date, but more importantly its about commitment. A good agent will work hard so all parties are happy and that the gigs, flights, visas, etc work and run smoothly. This costs time and money (here we go with the boring business side of things!!!) We'd like it all to be free but unfortunately its not. To phone a mobile in South America 3 times a day you need to take out a mortgage! So if you were to go off and do bookings on the side without giving back to the agency, they wont be very happy. Firstly, they would be loosing out on potential booking fee if a date came in for you and you were'nt available, but also it just messes with the workings and formula that the agency adheres to. Things get complicated and its more stress than its worth.
That commitment works both ways though. Even though an agency tends not to promote, of course it is in their interest to get you work. This is just done by selling people over the phone. This comes back to demand which ultimately is up to the artists self-promotion.
I'm waffling now so Im gonna wrap it up. I wouldn't stress over it too much, thinking that maybe you're loosing bookings not being with an agency. You may find youre better off not being on one. That you get more gigs without. Henry took that route and is perfectly happy, whereas Chris couldn't survive without Rachel. Its entirely your desicion if and when, but its certanly not one that is career changing.

[ant]

I think what im trying to say is that joining an agency will not get you more work. Its purely booking representation.


Sorry, thisline should read:
I think what im trying to say is that joining an agency will not immediately grant you access to all the contacts and wont always results in more work. Its mostly booking representation.

[Aratron]

Ello mate. Just checking the new BOA site properly and I caught onto this thread. Thought Id shine some light onto it.
The first thing to bear in mind (and this is a big mis-conception about agencies) is that 99.99% of agencies rule of thumb is that they don't promote the artist. They are simply there for handling bookings. Yes there are things such as websites etc to "advertise" the agency, its artists and its existence, but you'll find that very little, if any money gets put into actually "promoting" the artists individually. This is 100% up to them.
Yes, agencies have a big book of contacts and is a good networking platform but most of the time (not always) its one way traffic. i.e. promoters getting in touch with the agent. When people get in contact to book an artist, they are normally very specific about who they want and if that artist is unavailable, things either get filtered through the remaining free artists on that date, or the promoter decides to change the date. I think what im trying to say is that joining an agency will not get you more work. Its purely booking representation.
Of course there are benefits as well as downsides. If the demand is there, an agency will take all the stress out of negociating dates, flights, money, visas etc... a godsend in my opinion! One of the downsides though, is that an agency will frown upon you doing your own bookings. You either have to be 100% on it or 100% off it. This is a necessity with any agency. Firstly, it eliminates the embarrasing situation of being booked for 2 different gigs on the same date, but more importantly its about commitment. A good agent will work hard so all parties are happy and that the gigs, flights, visas, etc work and run smoothly. This costs time and money (here we go with the boring business side of things!!!) We'd like it all to be free but unfortunately its not. To phone a mobile in South America 3 times a day you need to take out a mortgage! So if you were to go off and do bookings on the side without giving back to the agency, they wont be very happy. Firstly, they would be loosing out on potential booking fee if a date came in for you and you were'nt available, but also it just messes with the workings and formula that the agency adheres to. Things get complicated and its more stress than its worth.
That commitment works both ways though. Even though an agency tends not to promote, of course it is in their interest to get you work. This is just done by selling people over the phone. This comes back to demand which ultimately is up to the artists self-promotion.
I'm waffling now so Im gonna wrap it up. I wouldn't stress over it too much, thinking that maybe you're loosing bookings not being with an agency. You may find youre better off not being on one. That you get more gigs without. Henry took that route and is perfectly happy, whereas Chris couldn't survive without Rachel. Its entirely your desicion if and when, but its certanly not one that is career changing.

wiser and drier words have never been spoken afore on here dude! respect

[massplanck]

hmm. someone has a big impression of themselves that for sure.

agency? wtf? are we talking Louis Walsh here or what?

why not waterdown your sound? make some pop music or something?

maybe when techno gets back ontop of itself (ie people not posting about being pissed off about getting enough gigs) and actually becomes a proper medium of expression that ALL people feel then we can talk about not getting enough gigs.

**** sake. Boa get grip. Boa is going the way of intergroove etc.. out with the **** old. in with the new i say... people who are more worried about the true message of what we do as opposed to using it as a means to an end.. as career.. respect.. money.. whatever.

no offence rythmtech. i like alot of what you say etc.. but this is so retarded it made me break my boa ban to reply to it.

bigup eyes... listen to what he says. SOS **** all that business/career shit. what are you on about>

jesus fcuking christ

[massplanck]

ok im a bit pissed. i dunno why i came on here to pick old scabs. Rhythmtech is a sound dude.. and i understand why he might of asked the question.. but it could have been anyone else and would have reacted the same way. rip intergroove/pureplactic/boa whatever. stop hanging onto the coatails of something dead.. time to emerge from the ashes with somthing that actually says something about life as opposed to something that mimics that same old bollocks that techno has become'.

this goes for agent hunters and much as dark techno nerds. you are all missing the point as far as i am concerned.


massplanck> acting the maggot agin :)

[Clit Commander]

ok im a bit pissed. i dunno why i came on here to pick old scabs. Rhythmtech is a sound dude.. and i understand why he might of asked the question.. but it could have been anyone else and would have reacted the same way. rip intergroove/pureplactic/boa whatever. stop hanging onto the coatails of something dead.. time to emerge from the ashes with somthing that actually says something about life as opposed to something that mimics that same old bollocks that techno has become'.

this goes for agent hunters and much as dark techno nerds. you are all missing the point as far as i am concerned.


massplanck> acting the maggot agin :)

No need to be so aggressive, it's not the worse question asked compared to some of the retarded ones that pop up on this forum.

To answer your question...
Ant did a nice job of summing things up. In short, don't get an agent unless you really need one. Most agencies won't push you even if they tell you they will. That's only going to happen if you come across somebody who is a hard worker and really believes in you, or you're a huge DJ they can make a lot of money from. On top of that, most promoters hate dealing with agents. Agents are good if you suck at the business end of things or can't speak the language. Aside from that you can probably do better on your own just by searching the net for various club nights and clubs and contacting them directly. And while not always true, it does help a lot to have some decent sized records out.

[rhythmtech]

@ ant..

cheers for the wisdom m8, wise words indeed
.. now would you ever get back to me regarding the other thing we we're talkin about :briggin:

@ massplankton..

not really a high opinion of myself.. more looking for a way to get away from just playing ireland and a few uk gigs.

@everyone else

cheerz for the input.

[eyeswithoutaface]

you would honestly be 100 times better just getting in touch with the uk clubs and sending more and more CD's out from my experience, i know the scene very well over here and there are alot more clubs who are totally trying to strip away the business feel to their nights in all aspects, including in how they book their dj's. There are the obvious nights like Voodoo and Atomic Jam the big hitters as it were who stick to pretty rigid rosters usually via the big agencys, but there are tons of smaller clubs about and i'd personally just get in touch with alot more of them.

I can see Massplanks point definately, i was a little taken aback when i first read it to be honest. You need an agenct if your someone like Preach's size, or looking like your heading that way sometime soon, and with all due respect its kinda like running before you can walk. Your "career" hasnt even started yet, as neither has mine or anyone else i know with only around 4 releases to their name, whilst personally being a significant milestone from the first release, commerically its really nothing, as it's become so easy to get records signed and released these days that it is mainly just an expensive promotional tool until your music starts to form your whole image as an artist, with your own defined sound and significant sales to back it up

i really wouldnt worry about agencies or agents or anything like that for a couple of years, if at all. No one NEEDS them, it is more than possible to do everything yourself and imo it keeps that ever more present stench of business, business, business just a little more at bay.

[The Overfiend]

bigup eyes... listen to what he says. SOS **** all that business/career shit. what are you on about>

jesus fcuking christ

What I said was....
do what you feel is more condusive to your own career.

This is in the english language for "do what you think you may need to do for yourself."

Sorry but the people here saying dude don't get an agent you are not big enough?

That just sounds crass and jealous even, misery loves company.

If an agency approached rhythm and advised him they would be able to give him opportunities that were not present before then why not give it a shot, because he is not Preach? That is an insult, as far as I am concerned. I say do not let anyone hold you down Rhythm, let's be honest in the business aspect of this industry, regardless of how "big" your name is, when an agent is involved, not only does it add to someone knowing the level of professionalism you have involved in your craft, it also saves you in the booking realm from getting "jerked" finance wise. There are some real shady and sheisty people and promoters involved in this genre. I don't mind paying someone 100 dollars out of a 1000 to make sure I am not in a foreign land penniless after delivering my services. Some of the nay sayers in here must have never had any involvement in the business world. Quite Obviously.

[crime]

Sorry but the people here saying dude don't get an agent you are not big enough?

That just sounds crass and jealous even, misery loves company.

If an agency approached rhythm and advised him they would be able to give him opportunities that were not present before then why not give it a shot, because he is not Preach?

Speaking from experience, I would echo what Ant said, basically, from what I've found over the past 5 years is, if you're not getting bookings every weekend off your own back, you won't get bookings every weekend just because you join an agency. I don't think it's jealousy that is making people here say what they say, just the pure reality of the situation.. And just because you do a release on a big label doesn't neccesarily mean it will be a big seller.. More important is very good music and consistancy, that is better promotion than either being on an agency or banging out 500 e-mails or mix cds..

[crime]

Rhythm, let's be honest in the business aspect of this industry, regardless of how "big" your name is, when an agent is involved, not only does it add to someone knowing the level of professionalism you have involved in your craft, it also saves you in the booking realm from getting "jerked" finance wise. There are some real shady and sheisty people and promoters involved in this genre. I don't mind paying someone 100 dollars out of a 1000 to make sure I am not in a foreign land penniless after delivering my services.

Shady booking agencies exist also you know..... it's possible to get "Jerked" by them also....

[rhythmtech]

Speaking from experience, I would echo what Ant said, basically, from what I've found over the past 5 years is, if you're not getting bookings every weekend off your own back, you won't get bookings every weekend just because you join an agency. I don't think it's jealousy that is making people here say what they say, just the pure reality of the situation.. And just because you do a release on a big label doesn't neccesarily mean it will be a big seller.. More important is very good music and consistancy, that is better promotion than either being on an agency or banging out 500 e-mails or mix cds..

thtas the thing though.. i am getting bookings 3 weekends of 4 most of the time..

anyway, it was just a question..

[crime]

thtas the thing though.. i am getting bookings 3 weekends of 4 most of the time..

anyway, it was just a question..

Ok, but you're saying this is just in Ireland, if you want to branch out into playing overseas, I don't think getting an agent is really going to do that for you, you need to have the interest there in the first place i.e. booking offers from overseas..

As Ant said, booking agents primarily arrange bookings you are already getting, to save you the trouble of having to haggle over fee & conditions etc, and whilst there could be the chance you might get a gig if you are on an agency and one of the other artists is unavailable, you would have to really be putting all your other work through the agency..

I think the real important thing if you are going to get an agent is to find someone you know and trust to do bookings for you, and I really cannot stress enough how important this is. If you are dealing with people you don't really know so well, who might be working for a "big" agency you can end up feeling like you could do a better job yourself..

I've been exclusive to 2 different agencies over the past 5 years, both of which I left because of things happening that I didn't like, and then had other people doing my bookings since, but for the past year have dealt with everything myself, because I havn't felt I could really trust the people I was working with. I've finally found a booker I think I can trust but I'm still waiting to see how that's going to pan out.. to be honest, the whole booking agency thing is a bit of a minefield, and countless times it's ended up being more stress for me because I was working with the wrong people..

So above all else I think it's important to work with people who you can really trust, who understand your music, and the kind of gigs that are suitable for you if you are looking to go with an agency otherwise it really can end up being more trouble than it's worth. ;)

[The Overfiend]

Ok.
I am not a scapegoat for this discussion.
All I am suggesting is for Rhythm to do what he feels necessary to boost his craft.
If he wants to get an agent so be it.
He asked for people's opinions and he got them.
Just because I tell him do as you wish does not make a focal point to express the pros and cons of having an agent.

[Clit Commander]

you know what? just go for it. if it all goes to sh!t you still have 3 weekends a month in Ireland. done deal.

[MorePunkThanFunk]

i was chatting with clodagh about this a while ago and she said that although she's with a few agency's she gets the vast majority of her gigs through her own website.

with what you said about emailing promoters, it's easy to ignore emails. try and build a friendship through email or phone, then maybe post a mix cd then broach the subject of gigs.

i dont know what its like for promoters but i get sent shit loads of links from people who i don't know with little more than 'have a listen'... or words to that affect. i think **** em, if they can't be bothered to first make some kind of contact and build a friendship then i can't be bothered to listen to there music. also if possible send well labelled mix cd's... who can be arsed downloading mix's they take ages. it's all about looking professionnal

[rhythmtech]

i was chatting with clodagh about this a while ago and she said that although she's with a few agency's she gets the vast majority of her gigs through her own website.

with what you said about emailing promoters, it's easy to ignore emails. try and build a friendship through email or phone, then maybe post a mix cd then broach the subject of gigs.

i dont know what its like for promoters but i get sent shit loads of links from people who i don't know with little more than 'have a listen'... or words to that affect. i think **** em, if they can't be bothered to first make some kind of contact and build a friendship then i can't be bothered to listen to there music. also if possible send well labelled mix cd's... who can be arsed downloading mix's they take ages. it's all about looking professionnal

cheers joe. i get exactly what you're saying, unfortunatly its getting the initial response from a promoter. im not saying all of them (i've met loads and emailed loads who are very friendly) but some just ignore you because as someone above said - they have their own roster of "name" djs.. so they play it safe with them all the time.

[Ms.Rhythm]

if your wanting agent contact numbers then i'd invest in the MIM "Music industry manual" for dj's and producers its basicly full of contact numbers which are great for networkingwith, you can get them second hand from amazon.co.uk for £22, a brand new one is like £60 odds i bought the 03/04 one from htfr for £5 but im gonna get the o6 one cause i found it that usefull.

thing with agency's is that most of them dont speicalize in the type of music you play, alot of it is based on the more popular side of electronic music . The clubs who are normaly hiring from agencys tend to be chain clubs that are intrested in house, hip-hop , r&b, maybe hardhouse n funky techno , music that girls who are into their high heels and poof drinks can dance too ya know?

Apart from that baz i would honestly invest in trying to market yourself abit more around the internet , start networking and find as many clubs around europe and the uk that play the kinda music you play and send them a demo, get friendly with them and youll probably be invited over to play. You could make anyone famous if you marketed them right SO GET TO IT BOY!

[Ms.Rhythm]

Also get a press pack designed as well, it will make you stand out more when sending things to folk, it also shows that you're wanting to be professional about this

[Aratron]

yeah and dont forget to keep letting us know how your getting on.
we're all really interested in hearing about how successful you have become.
who knows in a few months time, the only we may be able to get in touch with you, is through your agent!!

[rhythmtech]

im sorry m8.. my agent has instructed me that i can only reply to tat troug him:laughing:

[rowland the bastard]

Hello Baz, i have no time to trawl through this thread (sorry) but it seemed interesting to the point i wanted to put my nose in.

i have allot of experience with agents, some good and some very bad but ALL do the same mate, pretty much sit on there arse's and do **** all until the phone rings and they email a roster over (if your lucky) and if your really lucky they aren’t Dj's who try and get all the gigs, you can sort out what they could be doing already.

There is an advantage though, you have someone to negotiate a good deal without you looking like a money grabbing bastard and deal with all other un pleasantries (please forgive spelling as usual :))

I have just started an agency "Bionic Artist Management" website is being developed now, i am on the roster (obviously) but also on board for uk and European bookings we have Sebastian Prelar and Dj Urban.

like i said in reality we will look after booking details i.e. flights schedules, hotels etc, we are aiming to do our best for our artist's, i would really love and the offer is there to look after all artists on my labels but some are tied down and i don’t want to tread on anyone’s toes.

but what we are doing is (i think) a little different to other agencies is we are actively looking for work for ALL our artist's the is having sponsored links, paid by us where if someone types in one of our artists names it will be first in the sponsored link section, so we are putting money into our artists we are actively trying to get our artists work.

what an agent as such would look for before picking you and "doing you favour of a lifetime" is that you are already getting lots of work and you will have to start putting all that work through them so they get there cut, so basically you have done the hard work already and they are taking the cream off the top.

now, i have said i have an agency now, v. small but that’s the way i want it, and i have kinda blown the lid off to the ppl not in the know, we are more into honesty though im not going to give my artist's bullshit, this is how it is basically... hope this helps

If you really cant live without an agent i will consider having you on my roster, msn me mate we will talk more

[rowland the bastard]

yeah and dont forget to keep letting us know how your getting on.
we're all really interested in hearing about how successful you have become.
who knows in a few months time, the only we may be able to get in touch with you, is through your agent!!


someones got a case of the green envy :)

[Aratron]

If you really cant live without an agent i will consider having you on my roster, msn me mate we will talk more

brilliant

[Roxy Trip]

dunno why people go for agencies, i bet most of them are a scam. i mean if your wanting to make it big, why pay someone else to try and get you there if your determined enough youl eventually do it off your ownback, or so i imagine..:whoops:

if your too scared to put yourself out there, why pay someone else to do it. **** knows, i just dont see the point.

[Aratron]

someones got a case of the green envy :)

i doubt it mate.

i've had an agent for years.

www.got****alltalent.com

[rhythmtech]

dunno why people go for agencies, i bet most of them are a scam. i mean if your wanting to make it big, why pay someone else to try and get you there if your determined enough youl eventually do it off your ownback, or so i imagine..:whoops:

if your too scared to put yourself out there, why pay someone else to do it. **** knows, i just dont see the point.

firstly, you dont pay an agent. an agents fee is generally charged to the promoter on top of your fee (thats how its always worked with i agencies i've booked artists from), so the agent only gets paid if you're getting work which drives them to find work for you.

theres a number of reasons for using an agent.

1. time constraints (jobs, kids, studio work etc etc)
2. contacts
3. language barrier
4. business know hoh (not everyone has a head for negotiating fees etc)

thats just a few that apply to me and im sure theres plenty more.

[dan the acid man]

well you do pay for them, as the money that goes to them, could have gone to you

[Roxy Trip]

well you do pay for them, as the money that goes to them, could have gone to you


exactly ...

[rhythmtech]

not perticularly true at all..

i've often bypassed agents with certain artists and the fee is always the same.. just minus the agents booking fee.