The way Schranz is going....

[MARK ANXIOUS]

I love it. Have any of you heard the new Switchblade stuff??? And the recent Matando releases have knocked me for six. There's a big progression going on here and although many of you might be against 1 bar loops (personally I love them in the right atmosphere), there's an energy in this sound that's just beginning to surface imho. Ogi's new track on Submissions says a hell of alot I thought.

Let me know what ya reckon eh :)

[MOGZ-E]

I love it. Have any of you heard the new Switchblade stuff??? And the recent Matando releases have knocked me for six. There's a big progression going on here and although many of you might be against 1 bar loops (personally I love them in the right atmosphere), there's an energy in this sound that's just beginning to surface imho. Ogi's new track on Submissions says a hell of alot I thought.

Let me know what ya reckon eh :)
yo, the schranz is wicked, luving the sven wttekind stuff / boris s & alex calver at the mo.
i personaly think that some of it is poorley produced tho.

the bootlegs such as... schranz slippy - voodoo people - star 69 & la cambia, i just cant stop caining them every time i play out, thay all got a phat as feck base line.

i love the stuff

[justin schumacher]

I love it. Have any of you heard the new Switchblade stuff??? And the recent Matando releases have knocked me for six. There's a big progression going on here and although many of you might be against 1 bar loops (personally I love them in the right atmosphere), there's an energy in this sound that's just beginning to surface imho. Ogi's new track on Submissions says a hell of alot I thought.

Let me know what ya reckon eh :)


any audio?

a friend of mine was going on about pet duo's set at ILT.
I'm guessing they were gravitating towards this progression you speak of.
I remain cynical, but I'm open for appeal. I can not deny the energy that schranz creates, good schranz that is, which is few and far between.

the past two years or so I've been buying mostly stripped down techno (you can call it mnml if you will) with less loops and more sounds and structure, which I still adore, but recently I bumped an older set of mine that was very hard and loopy, and I realized that the energy of that sound is unmatched, in the clubs especially. at this point I am rediscovering my love for some good old fashioned bang bang. all I ask is for good production value.... thats it. where is it? I need guidance because sifting through crap is discouraging, plus it makes your hands smell.

[djfilthmonger]

I like schranz for a while now but i have serioulsy gone off mixing it and find myself mixing hardtechno more .i like to listen to a set when the blood is flowing(after a bottle r 2 of buckfast). i got a set 2 hrs of Marco Remus what a set defo would not class it as schranz but close less cymbals and compressin but very very hard hittting techno

[vadarfone]

alright lads...

have you got any mixes you can link me to with the sort of thing you are talking about?

i would love to hear it!

nice one boys and girls

[Pheeva]

I Love Schranz, Robert Natus really does it for me, but for Live sets Arkus P is wicked!! OBI, Ocram,Seema, Frank Kvitta, Linda Pearl..... I could go on forever. The Schranz total cd compilations are wicked I would highly reccoment them.
As for sets check out - www.combat-skill.org www.unitedsb.de www.hardtechno.be www.givewayrecords.com

[fac]

the bootlegs such as... schranz slippy - voodoo people - star 69 & la cambia, i just cant stop caining them every time i play out, thay all got a phat as feck base line.

i love the stuffare you serious? thats prolly the worst shit called music i ever heard. a shame they call it techno. its as stupid as all the scooter stuff. i really cant believe that there are people liking this more than poor produced crap. and even worse: djs like rush etc. playing it regularly.

[crime]

Schranz is what happens when those people on too many drugs who come up to you when you're playing and shout "harder, faster" discover fruity loops & compressor plug ins...

[Aratron]

Schranz is what happens when those people on too many drugs who come up to you when you're playing and shout "harder, faster" discover fruity loops & compressor plug ins...

wot rubbish
shranz is brilliant
i was listening and buying it 3 years ago and still do and i dont need validation from people on boa to tell me wether its good or not

[crime]

wot rubbish
shranz is brilliant
i was listening and buying it 3 years ago and still do and i dont need validation from people on boa to tell me wether its good or not

Good for you mate ;)
I would hope that people don't live their lives by the opinions of other people on message boreds (sic)

I still can't tell the difference between all the records though, I was under the impression that most schranz djs only had 2 records, which they mixed continuously all night....

[Aratron]

some of it is good
some of it is absolute garbage
just like techno

[fac]

I was under the impression that most schranz djs only had 2 records, which they mixed continuously all night....u mean they let a loop play and act like they spin records?!

[Sunil]

I dunno, I listen to the odd thing these days, but nothing i'd think of buying. I wouldn't rule out playing it on the right night, but I'd just go back to the first records from Amok and a few others...

[Sunil]

and even worse: djs like rush etc. playing it regularly.

Yeah, Rush has become a disappointment over the last few years, DJ wise. A man of his age and background could surely be digging deeper, than instead of playing 2 hours of the same loop.

He played a disco set the night before his techno set in Dublin about a month ago, and the disco set was far superior - he really worked the crowd and had a great time himself; wheras the next night he just stayed at 150+ bpm with no progression, and lacked any kind of stage presence like he used to have.

I think Rush is one of techno's real characters, but it's a pity he is stuck in this mould now. He is an icon to younger people coming through so it would be good for him to open their minds a little... or even a smidgen.

[crime]

u mean they let a loop play and act like they spin records?!

I mean, I can't tell the difference between one distorted noise on the off beat with a banging kickdrum under loads of compression with another... that leads me to suspect that only 2 schranz tracks really exists.. it's only the labels on the records which are different :P

[crime]

wot rubbish
shranz is brilliant
i was listening and buying it 3 years ago and still do and i dont need validation from people on boa to tell me wether its good or not

are you one of those people who takes too many drugs and shouts "harder faster?" at djs that are playing "sh it" because it's not "pumpin"

Try listening to it when you're straight mate... :P

[Aratron]

are you one of those people who takes too many drugs and shouts "harder faster?" at djs that are playing "sh it" because it's not "pumpin"

Try listening to it when you're straight mate... :P


go **** yourself

[1992]

Agreed. However I am starting to get sick of the dark techno/schranz that I've been buying. Its starting to sound all very simmilar and depressing. I hope I'm wrong though, I hope it gets better. Less distortion would be good as would more variation in the tracks however the extreme compression is what I like about it.

[Siege]

The best shranz for me was the form,construct rythm stuff.Hard as f**k but still retaining a bit of intelligence.
Majority of the stuff i hear these days is just mindless bang bang all sounding the same......just my opininion though

[Aratron]

there a few gems amongst the dross from time to time i donmt know all the labels are who orignated it.
i just like stuff by Robert Natus Mayhem Man Anreas Kremer Sven Wittekind Viper XL etc hardly shite is it?

[dan the acid man]

why does every schranz convo turn out like this.

some people love it, some don't, can't we all just live with it and leave out the personal insults

[MARK ANXIOUS]

exactly, it's just ridiculous.. i'm trying to make a good thread about taking schranz forward and ppl have to say 'oh no, i hate it, f it, etc etc'... well sorry but schranz is here to stay and if you don't like it i think ya need to leave the thread....... i remember ppl being like this when belgian techno came out in the 90's... whether you like it or not it's here - why not concentrate on what you like and put you effort into that.... my 2 cents..... instead of making a crappy post, if you don't like something why not make a topic about something you do???.. :cool:

[Sunil]

exactly, it's just ridiculous.. i'm trying to make a good thread about taking schranz forward and ppl have to say 'oh no, i hate it, f it, etc etc'... well sorry but schranz is here to stay and if you don't like it i think ya need to leave the thread....... i remember ppl being like this when belgian techno came out in the 90's... whether you like it or not it's here - why not concentrate on what you like and put you effort into that.... my 2 cents..... instead of making a crappy post, if you don't like something why not make a topic about something you do???.. :cool:

Yeah, but you know what kind of response schranz threads get Mark. I know you had the best intentions here, but you did kinda ask for it.

A lot of people simply don't respect schranz, and while it may come across as snobby or uppity in some ways, I can totally relate people's feelings on this... as I do share similar views on some of it.

Yeah, it's better that personal insults don't come into it, but it's just a measure of how strongly people feel on both sides of the arguement here. Anyway, it's only a messageboard and we're all big boys here, so if people are easily offended by the digs at schranz, maybe *they* need to leave the thread?!

I think heated discussions and arguements should continue on this if they have to... No-one's really getting hurt, are they?

Not all of the techno scene is fine and dandy for everyone, and that should be reflected here too by those who make considered observations and posts, even if they do come across as "negative".

If you are suggesting censorship of people's views on this messageboard then I think you're making the wrong choice. Surely people can participate even if it isn't to shower stuff with praise? And alternatively, do they really need to start their own threads if they want to talk about something?

[massplanck]

techno started off as electronic soul music. Now its just turning into generic whiteboy rage shit.


Its all 'fhuck the bitch' 'kill the cunt' 'knife the granny' & 'make the bastard bleed' music these days..

[snooch]

The best shranz for me was the form,construct rythm stuff.Hard as f**k but still retaining a bit of intelligence.
Majority of the stuff i hear these days is just mindless bang bang all sounding the same......just my opininion though

Absolutely! I'm a big fan of this stuff. Has all the elements of schranz I like, with good hard techno to balance it out and give it a bit of complexity. Alex K. Katz couldn't do wrong for a while there. One of my favorite periods of techno.

[Miromiric]

techno started off as electronic soul music. Now its just turning into generic whiteboy rage shit.


Its all 'fhuck the bitch' 'kill the cunt' 'knife the granny' & 'make the bastard bleed' music these days..


that's whiteboy musack?

[crime]

Yeah, it's better that personal insults don't come into it, but it's just a measure of how strongly people feel on both sides of the arguement here. Anyway, it's only a messageboard and we're all big boys here, so if people are easily offended by the digs at schranz, maybe *they* need to leave the thread?!

I've got to say I found it quite amusing how someone could get so offended at me making sarcastic comments about Schranz.. I never told anyone to "go **** themselves".. and maybe these schranz producers would get more respect from me if they could show that they arn't limited to a half or quarter bar loop of repetitive noise.. fair enough if you like it, I just think it's a bit emperors new clothes.. maybe it's because I heard The Advent "Elements of life" when it came out, which to me is what every schranz record is trying to sound like but falls far short of in ideas and production standard...

[Miromiric]

I've got to say I found it quite amusing how someone could get so offended at me making sarcastic comments about Schranz.. I never told anyone to "go **** themselves".. and maybe these schranz producers would get more respect from me if they could show that they arn't limited to a half or quarter bar loop of repetitive noise.. fair enough if you like it, I just think it's a bit emperors new clothes.. maybe it's because I heard The Advent "Elements of life" when it came out, which to me is what every schranz record is trying to sound like but falls far short of in ideas and production standard...

heeeey, this sounds like what the legendary miro had to say about wonk-donk once upon a time :laughing:

still, i agree with you about this one.

[dirty_bass]

the problem with Schnranze/dark/funky techno these days, is that it tends to be mostly made by a group of producers all copy the originator in that sub genre.

That`s my take, I think all techno suffers the same copycat, unimaginative blandness more and more these days.

I almost feel like rebelling against the prevailence of soft studios.

[Mucky Beats]

Shranz is cool ... i've been thro the mill with it tbh and now deffo think its cool now ... its deffo a sound thats come from the kinda Form stuff by kramer and k dsmith and all them lot in the late 90's early 00's and of course natus and them nutters ... its just good relentless hard stuff !
At first when all the cheeky bootlegs like born slippy and stuff came out i thought yeh this is banging for dropping in sets... also dunno if it was really or even now shanz but stuff like the killa's and Skull stuff was ace to bang out at raves!
But then i felt it all went a little over board on the bootlegs and the sound wasnt doing much anymore if ya know what i mean?
BUT then like any form of music it kinda found its feet or I found my feet with it... and now i have a selection of really banging shranz stuff like... Corporate, Protect and loads of labels i have never seen before but are wicked... and everytime i play or hear it in a club it goes off!
I couldnt play it all the time tho its just to pull out the bag now and again. I deffo enjoy it more in small doses like 1 or 2 sets a event not all night.

[fatcollective]

i do like some of it, in fact there is some really great produced tracks out there, but for me its just to hard and fast...i cant keep up with it, i like funky beats and groovey basslines.....im gettin old i think ha ha !!

[crime]

heeeey, this sounds like what the legendary miro had to say about wonk-donk once upon a time :laughing:

still, i agree with you about this one.

Difference is though Miro, that you were trying to diss something that you didn't have much of an idea about, and showed yourself up when you couldn't even tell the difference between my name and Mark Williams's..

[TechMouse]

I still can't tell the difference between all the records though


Difference is though Miro, that you were trying to diss something that you didn't have much of an idea about

I smell hypocrisy...

Come on Mark, we all know how irritating it is when people say "Techno? Isn't that all just bang bang bang..." so it's a bit crap to say the exact same about a particular strain of Techno you're not so chuffed with.

[fac]

it's a difference if someone who knows shit about electronic music says "bah, it's all the same" or another guy (e.g. mark) who is really into this kind of music says some similar sentence about the most monotonous, bangin, repetitive etc. stuff you can imagine

[robin m]

Got to love those schranz handbags :rockin:

Re the original point I totally agree, I'm liking a lot of the newer stuff coming through too - Matame, Protocast, Alex Calver, Leo Laker etc... a bit more creativity and cleverness than just going 'whump whump whump whump' for the whole record. People seem to be trying a bit harder to break the mould recently.

I can see where the schranz haters are coming from, but f*ck it - it does what it sets out to do, people are into it and the fact that it's so far removed from (for eg) crime's approach to techno that it all sounds the same to him is a good thing - three cheers for diversity :)

[crime]

Robin, I just checked out some of the stuff you were talking about (aside from the Calver).. Do you think the schranz scene is somehow merging with the Gabba/Hardcore scene? I must point out I was being a completely sarcastic wanker (I'm suprised anyone took me so seriously), but I have been to some horrific parties over the last few months in germany wich has given me some cynicism over the whole schranz "scene" although a few honourable mentions must go out to a few people from that scene who are nice people (Kvitta, Pets, Lukas etc).. but it does seem to be taking some ques from the hardcore thing... not my bag so much, but I can understand the appeal a bit more that a lot of the crap that was coming out over the past few years.. the biggest problem I feel is though that some producers are too happy just to be pumping out product.. i.e. 12 e.p.s a year with no though as to whether the next record was a progression from the last...

[BRADLEE]

I love it. Have any of you heard the new Switchblade stuff??? And the recent Matando releases have knocked me for six. There's a big progression going on here and although many of you might be against 1 bar loops (personally I love them in the right atmosphere), there's an energy in this sound that's just beginning to surface imho. Ogi's new track on Submissions says a hell of alot I thought.

Let me know what ya reckon eh :)

In my opinion anything that is well made and enjoyable to rock on the decks is a valuable asset. And thanks for specificly meantioning the latest Matando :cheese: . I'm stoked for the review in M8....that's wikked Mark!!!!

[The Overfiend]

the problem with Schnranze/dark/funky techno these days, is that it tends to be mostly made by a group of producers all copy the originator in that sub genre.

That`s my take, I think all techno suffers the same copycat, unimaginative blandness more and more these days.

I almost feel like rebelling against the prevailence of soft studios.

I don't agree but I'll ask you for example?

[audioinjection]

i don't listen to alot of schranz, nor do i know exactly what it is......because i have hard techno records that are classified as schranz but to me its just hard techno........i dont know haha

but some of it is cool, but that same ol reverbed/distorted/compressed kick drum over a pop song is pretty wack imo

ive heard sets from arkus p, sandy warez, robert natus.......they have some cool hard bangin tracks in there, but alot of it does get to sound the same

[robin m]

Robin, I just checked out some of the stuff you were talking about (aside from the Calver).. Do you think the schranz scene is somehow merging with the Gabba/Hardcore scene? I must point out I was being a completely sarcastic wanker (I'm suprised anyone took me so seriously), but I have been to some horrific parties over the last few months in germany wich has given me some cynicism over the whole schranz "scene" although a few honourable mentions must go out to a few people from that scene who are nice people (Kvitta, Pets, Lukas etc).. but it does seem to be taking some ques from the hardcore thing... not my bag so much, but I can understand the appeal a bit more that a lot of the crap that was coming out over the past few years.. the biggest problem I feel is though that some producers are too happy just to be pumping out product.. i.e. 12 e.p.s a year with no though as to whether the next record was a progression from the last...

The schranz & gabba scenes seem less distinct recently round these parts for sure... nights & parties seem to incorporate both of them more than they used to. I'm not a fan of hardcore, it's got a very different & far less appealing feel to it for me - but a lot of people seem to get a similar vibe from both so I suppose I'd say they're merging to an extent. Nottingham's a pretty small place to base a judgement on though as you know:;

I'd agree with what you say about people putting out identikit EPs without breaking new ground, but that's not a problem specific to schranz as I'm sure you'd agree... you get that with any music. Something comes along, it's new & different, people love it & start emulating it - before long it gets stale & loses it's edge so if you're lucky people eventually take it in new directions and new sounds grow from it. That's how music develops I guess, which is how we got stuff so totally different as schranz & your own music from the detroit sound... evolution in action.

[dirty_bass]

I don't agree but I'll ask you for example?

I`ll turn it around and ask for ome examples of something that isn`t following the route of same old same old made-to-fit-my-hero`s sound techno.

I think there is some great schranze out there, as is other techno, but for the good stuff there is a 20-1 ratio of sounds just-the-same as "insert genre leader here"

I think it`s easy to scapegoat schranze, but it`s a wider problem.

Too many people just making tunes to be popular or get ahead/get a name.

Obviously, this is my cynical view though.

[ds2]

I`ll turn it around and ask for ome examples of something that isn`t following the route of same old same old made-to-fit-my-hero`s sound techno.


dirty bass obviously...

[The Overfiend]

I`ll turn it around and ask for ome examples of something that isn`t following the route of same old same old made-to-fit-my-hero`s sound techno.

I think there is some great schranze out there, as is other techno, but for the good stuff there is a 20-1 ratio of sounds just-the-same as "insert genre leader here"

I think it`s easy to scapegoat schranze, but it`s a wider problem.

Too many people just making tunes to be popular or get ahead/get a name.

Obviously, this is my cynical view though.

I don't think I am following any hero sound.
Nor is Patrick Dsp
Nor is Brad Lee
Nor is David F.
Nor is Paul Mac.
Nor is Scott Gray for that matter....

I think there are a few who are trying to carve their own niche in the boat that is about to float over the water fall.

[Aratron]

Robin, I just checked out some of the stuff you were talking about (aside from the Calver).. Do you think the schranz scene is somehow merging with the Gabba/Hardcore scene? I must point out I was being a completely sarcastic wanker (I'm suprised anyone took me so seriously), but I have been to some horrific parties over the last few months in germany wich has given me some cynicism over the whole schranz "scene" although a few honourable mentions must go out to a few people from that scene who are nice people (Kvitta, Pets, Lukas etc).. but it does seem to be taking some ques from the hardcore thing... not my bag so much, but I can understand the appeal a bit more that a lot of the crap that was coming out over the past few years.. the biggest problem I feel is though that some producers are too happy just to be pumping out product.. i.e. 12 e.p.s a year with no though as to whether the next record was a progression from the last...


sorry for being rude to you dude

[MOGZ-E]

are you serious? thats prolly the worst shit called music i ever heard. a shame they call it techno. its as stupid as all the scooter stuff. i really cant believe that there are people liking this more than poor produced crap. and even worse: djs like rush etc. playing it regularly.

yea im serious!!

schranz is getting well known in wales, the bootlegs are doing it, not a full set of bootlegs. when they are dropped in, they go nuts coz they know the tune.

seen yoji biomehanica play a flat out schranz set @ evolution, cardiff a few months back.

played schranz from start to finnish, dropped in schranz slippy & end of hopes remix, the crowd went nutts.

also they got alot fatter bass line than most schranz stuff.


i love it

[ds2]

yoji biomehanica got skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfe4kbcaQWQ

[Miromiric]

Difference is though Miro, that you were trying to diss something that you didn't have much of an idea about, and showed yourself up when you couldn't even tell the difference between my name and Mark Williams's..


that was just a mix up with names.

[robin m]

There are too many Marks out there, some of them need culling I reckon :)

[dirty_bass]

dirty bass obviously...

At last someone with guts.

[Sunil]

yoji biomehanica got skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfe4kbcaQWQ

Wow, he's rocking it there!

His talent needs to be recognised on a wider scale. Do Asia have an equivalent of the Eurovision?

[justin schumacher]

yoji biomehanica got skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfe4kbcaQWQ


wow......... that is some funny ish right there.

[fac]

yoji biomehanica got skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfe4kbcaQWQoh man, his penis must be sooooo damn short...

[dirty_bass]

I don't think I am following any hero sound.
Nor is Patrick Dsp
Nor is Brad Lee
Nor is David F.
Nor is Paul Mac.
Nor is Scott Gray for that matter....

I think there are a few who are trying to carve their own niche in the boat that is about to float over the water fall.

Carving a niche in a niche is probably not the best idea, but the peeps in your list I respect musically, and don`t represent the majority of dross out there.

Mac is a good example though of a Diverse Producer. He turns his hand to all things and does it very well, his music contains many references and influences, and really techno needs more people like him, as too many producers have a very limited pallette in both influence and product, and it`s starting to show in the increasing blandness of the techno genre as a whole.
I also think that distributers wield the blame as well, as the shrinking market causes a tendancy to be popularist, and so less risks are taken.
I`m almost hoping for the death of vinyl now, as it will losen the stranglehold of the distributers and possibly increase the diversity within techno, both from the listener/clubber and the producer, who can take more risks due to lower overheads etc.
Who knows.

[Sunil]

I`m almost hoping for the death of vinyl now, as it will losen the stranglehold of the distributers and possibly increase the diversity within techno, both from the listener/clubber and the producer, who can take more risks due to lower overheads etc.
Who knows.


Ah man, don't be like that. Digital is an option for everyone if they want, but the death of vinyl won't suddenly help achieve what you're talking about at all. What about the people who actually like releasing vinyl and do put out good records? There are a lot of labels that wouldn't be as bothered if their only option was digital. You need to give this subject a bit more thought I think.

[crime]

that was just a mix up with names.
so this is you then ??
: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Miro

:p

[koma]

ah, legendary Miro

this has got to be one of the best hardcore releases ever...
http://www.discogs.com/release/20562

[dirty_bass]

Ah man, don't be like that. Digital is an option for everyone if they want, but the death of vinyl won't suddenly help achieve what you're talking about at all. What about the people who actually like releasing vinyl and do put out good records? There are a lot of labels that wouldn't be as bothered if their only option was digital. You need to give this subject a bit more thought I think.

I`ve thought a lot, believe me, but we are entering a time when techno is almost run by one distributer, and this is a scary situation to be in. Monopoly does nothing for any business or organisation/scene.
Pretty soon the financial arrangemnts will start twisting further, and we will see less labels being able to afford to run within this monopolies idea of the techno market.
I don`t wish anyone out of business, but taking a big step back and a realistic look at the way things have gone without wishful eyes, or a head in the sand mentality, and it don`t exactly paint a pretty picture.
The mp3 revolution however, is nothing but positive really.

[SlavikSvensk]

Carving a niche in a niche is probably not the best idea, but the peeps in your list I respect musically, and don`t represent the majority of dross out there.

Mac is a good example though of a Diverse Producer. He turns his hand to all things and does it very well, his music contains many references and influences, and really techno needs more people like him, as too many producers have a very limited pallette in both influence and product, and it`s starting to show in the increasing blandness of the techno genre as a whole.
I also think that distributers wield the blame as well, as the shrinking market causes a tendancy to be popularist, and so less risks are taken.
I`m almost hoping for the death of vinyl now, as it will losen the stranglehold of the distributers and possibly increase the diversity within techno, both from the listener/clubber and the producer, who can take more risks due to lower overheads etc.
Who knows.

yeah you really hit the nail on the head there. the business model for techno is so broken that it's desperately seeking anything even moderately successful then caning it to death for any possible profit. they have supply and need more demand. can't blame them, really...but it's an institutional problem. a switch from vinyl might lower the overhead, but the key problem would still be there...which is a problem not so much with the demand but with the supply

the solution for me though is to have more producers like paul mac who can do everything and do everything with some quality and care. i know i'll probably get hammered for being elitist, but maybe there need to be fewer producers out there?

i mean, label owners and distributors can do what they want but maybe there should be fewer producers, fewer labels, etc. and higher quality standards. maybe tracks should be evaluated on how they function as songs rather than as loops that fit a category? maybe there needs to be some consolidation among labels, but in the sense of creating label collectives that pool resources and sustain each other?

just throwing ideas out there...

[The Overfiend]

yeah you really hit the nail on the head there. the business model for techno is so broken that it's desperately seeking anything even moderately successful then caning it to death for any possible profit. they have supply and need more demand. can't blame them, really...but it's an institutional problem. a switch from vinyl might lower the overhead, but the key problem would still be there...which is a problem not so much with the demand but with the supply

the solution for me though is to have more producers like paul mac who can do everything and do everything with some quality and care. i know i'll probably get hammered for being elitist, but maybe there need to be fewer producers out there?

i mean, label owners and distributors can do what they want but maybe there should be fewer producers, fewer labels, etc. and higher quality standards. maybe tracks should be evaluated on how they function as songs rather than as loops that fit a category? maybe there needs to be some consolidation among labels, but in the sense of creating label collectives that pool resources and sustain each other?

just throwing ideas out there...

Good stuff in here.

[Sunil]

I`ve thought a lot, believe me, but we are entering a time when techno is almost run by one distributer, and this is a scary situation to be in. Monopoly does nothing for any business or organisation/scene.
Pretty soon the financial arrangemnts will start twisting further, and we will see less labels being able to afford to run within this monopolies idea of the techno market.
I don`t wish anyone out of business, but taking a big step back and a realistic look at the way things have gone without wishful eyes, or a head in the sand mentality, and it don`t exactly paint a pretty picture.
The mp3 revolution however, is nothing but positive really.

Ok, so Neuton - as an example - might dictate some stuff from Germany or whatever, but that said, they (bigger companies) are necessary too. They are useful to smaller 'middle-men' companies, and when a big one goes down, sometimes lots of great labels go down, and smaller distributors suffer. EFA anyone?

As a matter of interest, who is/are the big bad wolf 'monopoly' distributor(s) in your opinion?

Personally I can think of quite a few small independent companies that are doing a good job and who I want to see continue selling records. Veto, Electronik, Possible, Base Level are quick examples. None of them have embraced Mp3 yet, and seem to be still managing, albeit probably not making bucketloads of money.

Also, there are many rock, and A-Z style distributors that are doing more electronic vinyl now, which I think is good. I've seen records pop up on lists I wouldn't have expected to have previously seen - sure, it might be a sign of labels having to spread their wings to shift units, but personally I think it's good to see a wider chain emerging for electronic/techno vinyl.

Ok, monopolies are not good, especially as mediocre music will prosper more as a result. That's why it's good to have faith in the existing companies that are keeping it real, putting out good records, and keeping independent spirit alive.

Relying on or putting all your faith into mp3 only and you're subscribing to an invisible and potentially *far* weaker scene in my opinion. The proof is already in the pudding, if you analyse the 'history' of digital labels, and vinyl labels converting to digital only.... I mean, where are the success stories?

More adventurous releases from some distributors would be a big advantage alright, but bland music seems to be more visible for a number of reasons now, including:

- Less new music being released, full stop.
- DJs (Big name) playing too many new records that don't cut the mustard.
- A disintigration of innovation

This said, I have lots of hope for the future, and hope many people can claw their way back, and that the appetite for edgier music in general... returns a little bit more.

I understand what you're saying about digital bringing control back to the independent artist, but that option is already there and has been for some time. The 'good' days of successful distributors are what brought us the great records we all own. There's a lot to be said for the single minded vision of distributors, past and present, which can't be scoffed at. If I were a label under the wing of a happening distributor, I know I'd be far happier than being a dot in the ocean of the digital label internet highway...

[massplanck]

Sunil is the truth.

[SlavikSvensk]

Ok, so Neuton - as an example - might dictate some stuff from Germany or whatever, but that said, they (bigger companies) are necessary too. They are useful to smaller 'middle-men' companies, and when a big one goes down, sometimes lots of great labels go down, and smaller distributors suffer. EFA anyone?

As a matter of interest, who is/are the big bad wolf 'monopoly' distributor(s) in your opinion?

Personally I can think of quite a few small independent companies that are doing a good job and who I want to see continue selling records. Veto, Electronik, Possible, Base Level are quick examples. None of them have embraced Mp3 yet, and seem to be still managing, albeit probably not making bucketloads of money.

Also, there are many rock, and A-Z style distributors that are doing more electronic vinyl now, which I think is good. I've seen records pop up on lists I wouldn't have expected to have previously seen - sure, it might be a sign of labels having to spread their wings to shift units, but personally I think it's good to see a wider chain emerging for electronic/techno vinyl.

Ok, monopolies are not good, especially as mediocre music will prosper more as a result. That's why it's good to have faith in the existing companies that are keeping it real, putting out good records, and keeping independent spirit alive.

Relying on or putting all your faith into mp3 only and you're subscribing to an invisible and potentially *far* weaker scene in my opinion. The proof is already in the pudding, if you analyse the 'history' of digital labels, and vinyl labels converting to digital only.... I mean, where are the success stories?

More adventurous releases from some distributors would be a big advantage alright, but bland music seems to be more visible for a number of reasons now, including:

- Less new music being released, full stop.
- DJs (Big name) playing too many new records that don't cut the mustard.
- A disintigration of innovation

This said, I have lots of hope for the future, and hope many people can claw their way back, and that the appetite for edgier music in general... returns a little bit more.

I understand what you're saying about digital bringing control back to the independent artist, but that option is already there and has been for some time. The 'good' days of successful distributors are what brought us the great records we all own. There's a lot to be said for the single minded vision of distributors, past and present, which can't be scoffed at. If I were a label under the wing of a happening distributor, I know I'd be far happier than being a dot in the ocean of the digital label internet highway...

think you misunderstood me a bit, though. i wasn't talking about big bad wolf distributors or labels at all. i'm really sympathetic to the need for labels and distributors to make ends meet, and i think techno is only healthy when they can :)

the mp3 idea really is dirtybass'. i think it could help in some ways, but if you read my post again, you can see i'm also saying it's not the real problem with techno, as i see it.

i'm also not advocating big labels so much as higher quality standards. ever since the flood of decent-production techno that came with the prime/swedish invasion days (starting around 1996), there seems to be less versatility among (most) producers and less variety within labels.

but, of course, the thing about the swedish guys in that period is that, for a while at least, most everything they put out was new and good.

to me, in recent years techno has been plagued by an absolutel glut of cookie-cutter loops on a seemingly exponent number of more and more specialized labels. some are responding to demand for more minimal, more schranz, etc. and some are just there because it's so easy to start a label (but so hard to keep one afloat).

what i'm asking for is for labels to look for producers who can do MORE, maybe even on a single record. and instead of putting out quantity, put out quality. instead of getting one quasi-song and 3 dj tool loops, how about 3 songs and 1 loop? how about instead of label A putting out 4 records by so-and-so in a year, putting out one where all the tracks are really, really good?

sure this would limit some sales but it would also limit overhead. and my thought about label collectives might mean that labels could be more selective. sure this is not a money making idea, but maybe it's also not a money hemhoraging idea. :)

see where i'm going with this?

[dirty_bass]

Ok, so Neuton - as an example - might dictate some stuff from Germany or whatever, but that said, they (bigger companies) are necessary too. They are useful to smaller 'middle-men' companies, and when a big one goes down, sometimes lots of great labels go down, and smaller distributors suffer. EFA anyone?

As a matter of interest, who is/are the big bad wolf 'monopoly' distributor(s) in your opinion?

Personally I can think of quite a few small independent companies that are doing a good job and who I want to see continue selling records. Veto, Electronik, Possible, Base Level are quick examples. None of them have embraced Mp3 yet, and seem to be still managing, albeit probably not making bucketloads of money.

Also, there are many rock, and A-Z style distributors that are doing more electronic vinyl now, which I think is good. I've seen records pop up on lists I wouldn't have expected to have previously seen - sure, it might be a sign of labels having to spread their wings to shift units, but personally I think it's good to see a wider chain emerging for electronic/techno vinyl.

Ok, monopolies are not good, especially as mediocre music will prosper more as a result. That's why it's good to have faith in the existing companies that are keeping it real, putting out good records, and keeping independent spirit alive.

Relying on or putting all your faith into mp3 only and you're subscribing to an invisible and potentially *far* weaker scene in my opinion. The proof is already in the pudding, if you analyse the 'history' of digital labels, and vinyl labels converting to digital only.... I mean, where are the success stories?

More adventurous releases from some distributors would be a big advantage alright, but bland music seems to be more visible for a number of reasons now, including:

- Less new music being released, full stop.
- DJs (Big name) playing too many new records that don't cut the mustard.
- A disintigration of innovation

This said, I have lots of hope for the future, and hope many people can claw their way back, and that the appetite for edgier music in general... returns a little bit more.

I understand what you're saying about digital bringing control back to the independent artist, but that option is already there and has been for some time. The 'good' days of successful distributors are what brought us the great records we all own. There's a lot to be said for the single minded vision of distributors, past and present, which can't be scoffed at. If I were a label under the wing of a happening distributor, I know I'd be far happier than being a dot in the ocean of the digital label internet highway...



Some good points, but still, we will never know as mp3 is still a transition period.
To say there are no success stories just isn`t true. Emerson of killaz/kiddaz fm for 1 example is doing amazing amazing mp3 sales.
As the media gets stronger and more prevailant people will understand it and the business models will improve.
We don`t really have any techno specialist mp3 vendors, as we would record stores, but hopefully this will come, and will act as a central point, which is the main hurdle in mp3.
But you can`t fight the tide, even the major major labels have admitted that they are fighting a losing battle (and I`m talking THE majors), so eventually it will be the dominant media, no argument.

I mean, all the kids are walking around with mp3 players. My nephiew has just hit 15, he loves his music, but I show him some of my records on vinyl and he just laughs. Vinyl?
At least he vaguely knows what it is.
The younger generation simply do not know what it is at all, and I doubt they will suddenly go retro and buy decks in 10 years time, as by then, something even more amazing will be along, and some of us old ****s will still be harping on about the vinyl vs mp3 thing while the kids are on holographic cube media

The money a label would spend on vinyl would simply be put into marketing etc.

The good old days of big distributers were the days when electronic dance music was at it`s peak. Those days will never return. So therefor reminiscence is not a good model.

I`m not trying to preach doom and gloom, but I think it`s time to face the change and grab it before you are left behind.
Sure I love vinyl, and there are some great independant distributers out there, but they will soon be squeezed out, or at least feel the squeeze even more, as the market comes under more control.
Maybe if the smaller independants could group together, form a coalition, maybe develop a more coherent, centralised internet based pool of services or something, it might help.

there are no answers, but people with sensible contributions like yours and slavs, are the real hope, rather than the fingers in the ears, heads down, la la la attitude of many, who simply have invested so much of their time and life (as do we all) into this music that they refuse to see the wood for the trees.

[Sunil]

think you misunderstood me a bit, though. i wasn't talking about big bad wolf distributors or labels at all. i'm really sympathetic to the need for labels and distributors to make ends meet, and i think techno is only healthy when they can :)



I was directing that post to DB's previous one, not yours ;)

I get what you're saying totally. Yes, the need for less producers is a good point, in total agreement with you on that... even if it could be an improbability! It comes back to DB's point about too many producers releasing to keep their profile up - something which seems pretty rife in schranz, or indeed many other styles of music. It has to do with what's popular I guess - and let's face it, many great techno producers used to shit out releases. By his own admission, even Lekebusch for instance, was someone who released stuff that wasn't always as good as it might have been... but I guess when an opportunity presents itself or is easy to do, people will just do it - it's human nature. In fairness though, much of Lekebusch's music stands the test of time so we can forgive him!

The dubstep and minimal scenes are two current scenes that are seeing a glut of releases from producers who are probably just following a formula at this stage as well. There was a stage when clicky minimal was quite niche, now it's morphed into a monster. I guess other emerging or less popular sounds may get their day sometime too.

[Sunil]

Some good points, but still, we will never know as mp3 is still a transition period.
To say there are no success stories just isn`t true. Emerson of killaz/kiddaz fm for 1 example is doing amazing amazing mp3 sales.
As the media gets stronger and more prevailant people will understand it and the business models will improve.
We don`t really have any techno specialist mp3 vendors, as we would record stores, but hopefully this will come, and will act as a central point, which is the main hurdle in mp3.
But you can`t fight the tide, even the major major labels have admitted that they are fighting a losing battle (and I`m talking THE majors), so eventually it will be the dominant media, no argument.

I mean, all the kids are walking around with mp3 players. My nephiew has just hit 15, he loves his music, but I show him some of my records on vinyl and he just laughs. Vinyl?
At least he vaguely knows what it is.
The younger generation simply do not know what it is at all, and I doubt they will suddenly go retro and buy decks in 10 years time, as by then, something even more amazing will be along, and some of us old ****s will still be harping on about the vinyl vs mp3 thing while the kids are on holographic cube media

The money a label would spend on vinyl would simply be put into marketing etc.

The good old days of big distributers were the days when electronic dance music was at it`s peak. Those days will never return. So therefor reminiscence is not a good model.

I`m not trying to preach doom and gloom, but I think it`s time to face the change and grab it before you are left behind.
Sure I love vinyl, and there are some great independant distributers out there, but they will soon be squeezed out, or at least feel the squeeze even more, as the market comes under more control.
Maybe if the smaller independants could group together, form a coalition, maybe develop a more coherent, centralised internet based pool of services or something, it might help.

there are no answers, but people with sensible contributions like yours and slavs, are the real hope, rather than the fingers in the ears, heads down, la la la attitude of many, who simply have invested so much of their time and life (as do we all) into this music that they refuse to see the wood for the trees.

Well, Emerson and Kiddaz may do great Mp3 sales, but they aren't solely a digital entity are they? Vinyl probably still keeps them more on the radar I'd imagine. Good for them though, they're experiencing the best of both worlds.

Re: Mp3 vendors - Yes, maybe there is a need for a better operator of this service for some styles of music, but that'll come as it's necessary I'm sure. I know you're talking about transitions for Mp3, and you are right in some ways. Mp3 is no spring chicken either though! There has been a fair deal of time for Mp3 distributors to surface, and let's be fair... quite a few already have.

I'm not saying that it's all vinyl or nothing, and I do see how the struggle to sell vinyl is getting harder; but I also think there's some distributors and styles of music that can and will weather the storm, and are still doing alright...selling vinyl. I think digital is obviously a big part of now and the future, so I'm not dismissing it totally - I'm just not convinced that the market will convert solely to this, or will be able to (if it knows what's good for it).

It's true that the small guys will feel the squeeze more, and some may fall... but y'know, for everyone that falls, another one usually rises - I guess no-one learns their lesson! Or else they still have a job that needs to be done :)

Well, the next 'big thing' could be about people streaming stuff off their hand held device via a supplier, without even having to download it. Apparantly, many record companies are now turning their people and lawyers' attention to this new 'opportunity' or 'threat' rather than the problem of downloading.

[SlavikSvensk]

I was directing that post to DB's previous one, not yours ;)



ok i see that now...silly me :oops:

[Spire]

Now its just turning into generic whiteboy rage shit.


Hahahaha. Classic.

[audioinjection]

why is it i only hear about techno going down in sales of vinyl.......dnb, house, trance, and hardcore seem to be doing ok no?

[dirty_bass]

why is it i only hear about techno going down in sales of vinyl.......dnb, house, trance, and hardcore seem to be doing ok no?

no and yes.

Vinyl sales are down across the board, but less so in other areas.
In fact music sales are down across the board, it`s just that techno has been hit by this, and a seeming abandonment by the (not so massive) masses.

House will always be the biggest in dance music.
It has more melody, more groove, more vocals for your average person on a night out to sing along too etc

Trance again is more accessable, melody, vox in some cases.

Drum and bass as a music has more cred than techno for some reason. It`s the rougher edgy relation to street culture it has I reckon, rather than the nerdy white boy studio freak relationship that techno has to most people.
There`s still hoards of drum and bass nights, and they still ram em in.
Techno parties are having difficulty holding regular high numbers.
I think it`s just that techno is less popular, it`s either too abstract, too repetative, too hard, or just plain too inaccessable to people.
It`s an aqquired/learned taste, and also, the prevailance of alcohol culture in clubs over the other kind, means the peeps want more recognisable music, for their slower brains.

the real question is why have we lost so many people?
Aging techno generation not going out?
Over repetition and too much DJ based music driven your average joe away?


Hard to say, but the popularity of minimal, and it`s emphasis on grooves and riffs (and closeness to house), to me, points to a need for more soulful music.

Now what kinda worries me a little, is that for a while now, me and my mates have been securely saying to ourselves
"ah it`ll be ok, these things go in cycles, people will get into it again"
But recently, I looked at it a different way.
All musics hit there peak of interest and then settle into their true, smaller fanbase, rather than the popularist fan base.
Take Jazz, for example.
Once was very popular, then settled down.
It never died (allthough tell that to BBc radio) but has settled into it`s place, not really rising back.

Maybe this is the stage techno is at?

It doesn`t really matter too much really.

But hell, we need something to talk about in here.

[dan the acid man]

some great posts in here, im going to read some of them again.

Personally speaking, switching to mp3 for me has enabled me to buy a much wider variety of styles, due to being able to buy more single tracks instead of an ep

[SlavikSvensk]

techno is too anal retentive for the masses

[The Overfiend]

Distro's should focus on the mp3 thing and less vinylshould be pressed, let's face it the day of the bedroom dj is almost numbered vinyl wise.
So maybe runs of 300 pressed should go into effect.
Should that sell then pressings of higher amounts should be repressed.
Supply and demand
Distros expect sales of 1000
Reality is press 300 sell 300
repress.

[dirty_bass]

Distro's should focus on the mp3 thing and less vinylshould be pressed, let's face it the day of the bedroom dj is almost numbered vinyl wise.
So maybe runs of 300 pressed should go into effect.
Should that sell then pressings of higher amounts should be repressed.
Supply and demand
Distros expect sales of 1000
Reality is press 300 sell 300
repress.

Unless you want a real bad cut and shitty vinyl, then you won`t break even on 300 if you sell out.
Unless you send out zero promo`s
But I get your point.

[crime]

Why does everyone seem to think that vinyl sales are continuously dropping? there was the big drop about five years ago, but I think it's levelled off since, and in fact as far as the minimal stuff goes, are increasing (with certain labels/ producers)... people who are pretty underground are still doing at least 5 or 600 copies of a record, which is break even point. or is it just your records are doing badly of late DB? (not a dig, an honest question) ;)

If sales figures were dropping at the rate people go on about it here, then surely there would be no more vinly labels, record shops, no more sale of turntables etc....

[dirty_bass]

Why does everyone seem to think that vinyl sales are continuously dropping? there was the big drop about five years ago, but I think it's levelled off since, and in fact as far as the minimal stuff goes, are increasing (with certain labels/ producers)... people who are pretty underground are still doing at least 5 or 600 copies of a record, which is break even point. or is it just your records are doing badly of late DB? (not a dig, an honest question) ;)

If sales figures were dropping at the rate people go on about it here, then surely there would be no more vinly labels, record shops, no more sale of turntables etc....

Well, I`m probably doing as well as any other label of my size. Weathering the storm, but not hitting 3000 any more.
But I`m not griping about my own label at all, I`m thankfull they are selling, and I`ve got other projects and other places to put my eggs.

as for sales levelled off in the market, I`m not so sure.

Your right, minimal sales are great, that`s not what we are talking about here though.
I have found that with my other label, going non techno for distribution has been amazing, but that`s by the by.

But anyway, your totally right, sales aren`t the be all and end all by any stretch, jesus, if they were, I wouldn`t have sunk a load of money into a frankly quite stupid risk of a project for one of my labels.
Integrity and creativity, remaining true to yourself and never standing still, these things are far more important.

Hell, I been on an all night burn in the studio right now, and the only reason I`m typing this now is to give my ears a rest, so despite all the doom and gloom, it`s just banter.

At the end of the day, I love music, and I`ll always be making it, regardless of an audience, and I expect a lot of us are the same.

[Aratron]

Unless you want a real bad cut and shitty vinyl, then you won`t break even on 300 if you sell out.
Unless you send out zero promo`s
But I get your point.

i dont get all this talk of vinyls only selling 300.i spoke to rowland deems otha day (on msn) he was telling me that a recent infected only sold 300 copies i couldnt beleive this as i had a copy a friend of mine had bought 2 copies by mistake, and we live in shit-town doncaster ffs.
if only one techno head in each town had a copy thats more than 300.

[dirty_bass]

i dont get all this talk of vinyls only selling 300.i spoke to rowland deems otha day (on msn) he was telling me that a recent infected only sold 300 copies i couldnt beleive this as i had a copy a friend of mine had bought 2 copies by mistake, and we live in shit-town doncaster ffs.
if only one techno head in each town had a copy thats more than 300.

You`d be surprised mate, I know of some producers who I majorly respect, who I thought would sell boatloads on their name alone who have given me tales of woe about their sales.

But enough doom and gloom I think.

There are plenty of good things happenin too.

[The Overfiend]

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF249123-01-02-02.mp3
The way schranz is going this is dope.

[snooch]

Sam, what track is that?

[1992]

yoji biomehanica got skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfe4kbcaQWQ


Thats Schranz? I thought that guy was hard Trance?

[1992]

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF249123-01-02-02.mp3
The way schranz is going this is dope.


Thats not too shabby, what release is this?

[Si the Sigh]

why is it i only hear about techno going down in sales of vinyl.......dnb, house, trance, and hardcore seem to be doing ok no?

I always wonder the same thing.

My mate owns a record shop. UK Hardcore out sells every techno release by 20 to 1 at the absolute least.

D&B vinyl sales are still high. Hardtrance & Hardstyle sales are still reasonable, as are sales of house and breaks, abet on a smaller scale in the case of this shop.

You can't tell me that MP3's are selling more than vinyl. I really can't believe that at all.

[TechMouse]

Sam, what track is that?
It's Arkus P.

(The mp3 has id3 tags...)

[fac]

Thats Schranz? I thought that guy was hard Trance?he is

[fac]

that tune is almost ok tho

[Jay Pace]

D&B vinyl sales are still high

On D&B - have you heard that "download" track? Jesus.
Bunch of ****ing dinosaurs

[audioinjection]

I always wonder the same thing.

My mate owns a record shop. UK Hardcore out sells every techno release by 20 to 1 at the absolute least.

D&B vinyl sales are still high. Hardtrance & Hardstyle sales are still reasonable, as are sales of house and breaks, abet on a smaller scale in the case of this shop.

You can't tell me that MP3's are selling more than vinyl. I really can't believe that at all.

yeah, i've heard about alot of hardcore and dnb labels still selling nice amounts of vinyl.......although i dont think hardcore and dnb are big in the mp3 market maybe?

[dirty_bass]

I always wonder the same thing.

My mate owns a record shop. UK Hardcore out sells every techno release by 20 to 1 at the absolute least.

D&B vinyl sales are still high. Hardtrance & Hardstyle sales are still reasonable, as are sales of house and breaks, abet on a smaller scale in the case of this shop.

You can't tell me that MP3's are selling more than vinyl. I really can't believe that at all.
No, people just aren`t buying techno.

[Si the Sigh]

There you go.

Nail on the head.

Well done Steve.

This whole vinyl is on it's way out is no where near as bad as people in the techno scene think, as other genres are doing fine. Even MP3 sales in techno are seriously, seriously low compaired to say the hardcore scene. Thats a fact.

I'd say the problem with sales lies with the music personally.

Ah way, back on topic...

Schranz...

*meh!*

[fatcollective]

There you go.

Nail on the head.

Well done Steve.

This whole vinyl is on it's way out is no where near as bad as people in the techno scene think, as other genres are doing fine. Even MP3 sales in techno are seriously, seriously low compaired to say the hardcore scene. Thats a fact.

I'd say the problem with sales lies with the music personally.

Ah way, back on topic...

Schranz...

*meh!*

damn!! i knew i should have stayed withn the hardcore scene...white gloves, whistles and horns and mass record sales!!

[eyeswithoutaface]

There are very specific reasons within each genre as for why sales are how they are. Comparing UK Hardcore sales with Techno sales is pretty pointless, as the 2 core fanbases are vastly different. Uk Hardcore caters for, on the whole, your typical british chav, who want the fastest, most "aving it" music they can to soundtrack their night of debauchery. I bet you any money that if you compared the amount of people at Hardcore events now who actually dj themselves with the same criteria ten or even 5 years ago and youl notice a difference. Sales have dropped in EVERY genre over the past 5 - 10 years, there's no denying that. Sales in all genres will have their peaks and troughs but eventually it all levels out.

Hardcore might be outselling techno in your mates shop by 20 to 1 Si, but go to a shop over in Berlin, and you can bet your life they wont even stock hardcore records. Sales are more regional now than ever. I dont even have a label and i know this much.

[fac]

Hardcore might be outselling techno in your mates shop by 20 to 1 Si, but go to a shop over in Berlin, and you can bet your life they wont even stock hardcore recordsthats completely right. we have loads of shops for techno here and only very few for hardcore. even dnb is not that much represented. some of the bigger shops like hard wax have a dnb section but compared to the amount of techno they stock it is at most 1/5. and special dnb shops are also quite rare.

[eyeswithoutaface]

yep, exactly. You dont get the best demographic of one scene by comparing 2 totally different scenes in terms of economics, commercial viability etc etc.

[The Overfiend]

It's Arkus P.

(The mp3 has id3 tags...)

Arkus P Zweites Mal

[eyeswithoutaface]

if that track was slower it would be totally banging

[The Overfiend]

if that track was slower it would be totally banging

They must be serving margaritas in hell and israel must be setting up a peace accord, cause we agreed on something.

[eyeswithoutaface]

its christmas afterall

[RDR]

Blimey.

[Aratron]

i wanna do a schranz version of You make me feel like Dancing by well known semite Leo Sayer - quality

You make me feel like Scranzing

dub over the vocal so its

you make me feel like shranzing
gonna shranz the night away
you make feel like schranzing , ooh , shranzing, shranz the night away (and so on)
with a very hard beat thats discoey aswell

i cant do this tho anyone help me out
we'll split the profits - could be a big smash

[fac]

we'll split the profits - could be a big smashi'm sure rush would play it

[z99]

On D&B - have you heard that "download" track? Jesus.
Bunch of ****ing dinosaurs

muah, definitely

"i need MP3ees, vinyl is dead bruvv -- whaa, u're talking shieeeeeeet"

typical Clipz and his clown army :)


anyhow, what a nice turn for a schranz thread! // although I'm a bit of a vinyl fetishist too, the only thing what kinda bothers me concerning digital revolution is how do we get right music to the right audience in times when even the hard copy market suffers from overproduction? // should come up with new means of marketing, I guess.. other than plain spamming :D

[Scott Kemix]

Schranz is definately going forward with lots of new producers coming through. I would like to see more producers from the UK representing a little more. Schranz is a much larger scene in europe and will continue to lead this genre. I have recently had various visits to european venue's playing schranz, where the vibe and amount of support out there is immense.
I got more into schranz about 2 years ago now, where i became bored of everyone playing the same funky techno and cloning henry's tracks but to no avail. I needed something new and fresh with more energy to the overall sound and schranz seemed the right direction to take. It maybe a little fast and distorted to some people, but it is everyones personal preference to like whatever sound they want. Long live the harder sound!

[conflict]

shranz is music for the un-educated fool

[fac]

UDM

[conor256]

what do you guys think of this release then on tool terror???

http://www.bangingtunes.com/vinyl/view/toolterror10/

its schranz alright but its not so full on and sounds a bit funky in parts imo....

[Scott Kemix]

shranz is music for the un-educated fool

then you must be the fool, cause you cant spell! hehehehe

[Dorian Hunter]

We had Amok playing here some days ago, interesting style, too fast for me personally, but really different to most Schranz-acts we had here the last 2 years. Really hard, sick and dark.

[Scott Kemix]

We had Amok playing here some days ago, interesting style, too fast for me personally, but really different to most Schranz-acts we had here the last 2 years. Really hard, sick and dark.

i think Amok is more industrial and hardcore rather than hardtechno/schranz these days. 158 is prob my limit for tempo. Some great releases from him in the past though

[The Overfiend]

From what I understand Amok was veering into a harder industrial sound rather than the quote on quote schranz ethic

[The Overfiend]

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF244387-01-02-01.mp3

[Dorian Hunter]

He told me he is bored bout all the Schranz-producers nowadays sounding the same. He played some tracks from upcoming Artillery-releases, totally sick stuff.

In oct. we had Tomash Gee for a live-PA, it sounded also really interesting and not 08/15.

[davethedrummer]

i love this new wittekind thing i got last week
the sunstorm ep on abstract records
very nice track on the b i think
with a swirly synth pattern and a great drop
its pretty difficult to get the seperation between synths and all those drums but he's done it really well i think
i got it because i was playing in sardinia over chrimbo and the local dj there is a total schranz head , so he had all the latest stuff
and i have to say i didn't hate it nearly as much as before.
it used to be all bootlegs with the worst cheesy trax just ripped to bits but now people seem to be getting into original trax again
which is great i.m.o.
and it's really not bad either.
sure there's always going to be fodder , but thats same anywhere isn't it?
maybe the schranz guys have been guilty of just thrashing it out in the past
but the bar of quality has been raised recently for sure.

[koma]

http://www.juno.co.uk/ppps/products/236109-01.htm

sunstorm ep
a1 on that record is really nice

a1 on inflicted 009 also has a fine trancy melody, reminds me on earlier bonzai output a bit...in a hard techno remix hehe

[Scott Kemix]

i love this new wittekind thing i got last week
the sunstorm ep on abstract records
very nice track on the b i think
with a swirly synth pattern and a great drop
its pretty difficult to get the seperation between synths and all those drums but he's done it really well i think
i got it because i was playing in sardinia over chrimbo and the local dj there is a total schranz head , so he had all the latest stuff
and i have to say i didn't hate it nearly as much as before.
it used to be all bootlegs with the worst cheesy trax just ripped to bits but now people seem to be getting into original trax again
which is great i.m.o.
and it's really not bad either.
sure there's always going to be fodder , but thats same anywhere isn't it?
maybe the schranz guys have been guilty of just thrashing it out in the past
but the bar of quality has been raised recently for sure.

nice 1 hendry, its good to see the positive side and hear somebody talking inteligently about this subject. From what i hear, you get the good and the bad in all styles of music whether it be dance/trance/funky techno/hardcore/indie/rock/metal.........great e.p from witte btw

[Elvio Neto]

No, people just aren`t buying techno.


i think the internet is causing some of this problems too

i remember in 1995 (in portugal) every kid wants to have a turntable and buy vinyls, sometimes just to have the same tracks the great dj´s play on the partys

now its all diferent , there are millions of p2p programs and warez techno foruns... in seconds they have acess to the mp3 and sometimes the vinyl its not on sale yet

if they want to be djs they download in seconds the last version of tracktor

nobody is selling nothing like in the other times

portugal is a country that consumes many tecnology , whe are the first country to receave (test) and sell new celular phones of famous companys like "Sony Ericsson" and other types of new internet technologies (when i say "first" i mean the big companys release first the stuff here to be tested they say whe are very exacting and if they sell in portugal can sell everywhere)

the slowest adsl here is 4 mb and the standart adsl is 12 mb per second ( 1 second or 2 to download a track in mp3 )

all the people in these days have a fast pc and a fast adsl (even 9 years old kids)

they leave the pc´s downloading all night and day , djsets ,vinyls , cd albums


with all this its very hard to sell the same... some people never enter in a shop in they lives


ps: sorry my bad english

[303Power]

ive been getting into schranz recently

fave tune atm Dj Rush - get on up remixes. made a classic tune even more banging...

the switchblade stuff is off the hook also

[fac]

youre new to electronic music?

[303Power]

youre new to electronic music?


err no...

[fac]

ok, only a thought. sorry...

[Mucky Beats]

talking of good shranz remixes... the la la land one is rocking

[MITA]

i love this new wittekind thing i got last week
the sunstorm ep on abstract records
very nice track on the b i think
with a swirly synth pattern and a great drop
its pretty difficult to get the seperation between synths and all those drums but he's done it really well i think
i got it because i was playing in sardinia over chrimbo and the local dj there is a total schranz head , so he had all the latest stuff
and i have to say i didn't hate it nearly as much as before.
it used to be all bootlegs with the worst cheesy trax just ripped to bits but now people seem to be getting into original trax again
which is great i.m.o.
and it's really not bad either.
sure there's always going to be fodder , but thats same anywhere isn't it?
maybe the schranz guys have been guilty of just thrashing it out in the past
but the bar of quality has been raised recently for sure.
yep,i like that track on the record aswell,but rest is just crapisimo
that cheesy sinth in a1 is tottaly euro shite
bull fighter hahahaha.come on
dunno,here and there u can find some ok schranzy hard tech!

[Trip Head]

I saw Swen Wittekind and Felix Kroecher on NYE in Barcelona and they were both played blinding sets. Also saw DJ Lukas a few days later who was pretty damn good too.

Never really listened to much Schranz before as I just had the attitude (like most people in this thread) that it was just very montonous relentless techno. I'd say I still think that about a lot of it, but some of the tunes I heard in Barcleona were amazing. Growling basslines, synths, mixing in trancy elements, breakbeats, mad cutting.

I think the energy it creates on the dancefloor in the right party is just brilliant. And as for the bootlegs, I think they're quality (in moderation). People need to stop taking themselves so seriously and have a bit of fun!

[fac]

T H I S (http://www.discogs.com/release/4690) is more bangin than any ****in schranz record will ever be

[koma]

no, THIS (http://www.myspace.com/komprex) is more bangin than any of the mellow shyte mentioned in the topic


rave on :cheese:

[jon connor]

I Love Schranz, Robert Natus really does it for me, but for Live sets Arkus P is wicked!! OBI, Ocram,Seema, Frank Kvitta, Linda Pearl..... I could go on forever. The Schranz total cd compilations are wicked I would highly reccoment them.
As for sets check out - www.combat-skill.org www.unitedsb.de www.hardtechno.be www.givewayrecords.com


i have all the total schranz cd up 8 if you want to copy sum of the early ones give me a shout phee! recomended the andreas kraemer and thomas pogadl rare stuff these days, hahahahah

but yea schranz is growing it seems i was playing out with alex kid not so long ago hard house producer etc and even guys like this are now hammering it but its to harsh for me these days gettin old i tink

you have my old collection if ya want i will be selling it shortly.

[...Dave...]

no, THIS (http://www.myspace.com/komprex) is more bangin than any of the mellow shyte mentioned in the topic


rave on :cheese:



:surprise2:


speachless

[robin m]

no, THIS (http://www.myspace.com/komprex) is more bangin than any of the mellow shyte mentioned in the topic


rave on :cheese:

:10:

I'm obviously getting old...

[jk_scowling]

Airy fairy music if you ask me.

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF167533-01-01-01.mp3

[davethedrummer]

no, THIS (http://www.myspace.com/komprex) is more bangin than any of the mellow shyte mentioned in the topic


rave on :cheese:

****.... i hate that stuff! i have to say

[robin m]

Airy fairy music if you ask me.

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF167533-01-01-01.mp3

:laughing:

Where can you go from that I wonder? I thought Alec Empire was pretty messed up but he sounds like Eric Prydz next to that madness...

[DannyBlack]

I love it. Have any of you heard the new Switchblade stuff??? And the recent Matando releases have knocked me for six. There's a big progression going on here and although many of you might be against 1 bar loops (personally I love them in the right atmosphere), there's an energy in this sound that's just beginning to surface imho. Ogi's new track on Submissions says a hell of alot I thought.

Let me know what ya reckon eh :)

yeah, i have a hefty collection of switchblade stuff. you should check out infected and killaz records... especially the stuuf Amok does on em.

[dirty_bass]

One day there will be a pioneer mixer with a schranze effect added to it.
A compressor and fuzz effect.
Then you will no longer need to buy shcranze, just play any record (locked grooves preferable) through the effect (at 155 -165bpm), and bobs your uncle. Skkrannzzz a go-go.
Should keep the kids amused for another 5 minutes before they wander off to download I know what you did last summer 10 to play on their PSPs

[DannyBlack]

exactly, it's just ridiculous.. i'm trying to make a good thread about taking schranz forward and ppl have to say 'oh no, i hate it, f it, etc etc'... well sorry but schranz is here to stay and if you don't like it i think ya need to leave the thread....... i remember ppl being like this when belgian techno came out in the 90's... whether you like it or not it's here - why not concentrate on what you like and put you effort into that.... my 2 cents..... instead of making a crappy post, if you don't like something why not make a topic about something you do???.. :cool:

true say mate. i dont like schranz...










I ****ING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DannyBlack]

One day there will be a pioneer mixer with a schranze effect added to it.
A compressor and fuzz effect.
Then you will no longer need to buy shcranze, just play any record (locked grooves preferable) through the effect (at 155 -165bpm), and bobs your uncle. Skkrannzzz a go-go.
Should keep the kids amused for another 5 minutes before they wander off to download I know what you did last summer 10 to play on their PSPs



lol good idea! 165bpm is a nice comfortable speed to play at.

[stjohn]

its just another boundary.... Mark when you say schranz is here to stay, its categorising another form of techno, so that when new young people here it and go...." ooo thats cool, whats that?" he'll hear "schranz" and then go buy only schranz records, instead of being told, 'its techno, mate' ....... a full mix of schranz alone is very narrowminded imo, banging im sure, but just not very inventive.

[DannyBlack]

its just another boundary.... Mark when you say schranz is here to stay, its categorising another form of techno, so that when new young people here it and go...." ooo thats cool, whats that?" he'll hear "schranz" and then go buy only schranz records, instead of being told, 'its techno, mate' ....... a full mix of schranz alone is very narrowminded imo, banging im sure, but just not very inventive.


i see what you mean by not very inventive, what i like to do is to kick in with some hard ass techno and whip into hard nasty schranz.
i appreciate that it aint for everybody and thats cool, what makes being human great is diversity. we all have our own shit.

mixing to me is about putting myself into it, trying to use my imagination, breaking what sometimes comes across as a monotonous mix.
surely if you hear a shit schranz mix it would be 90% down to the DJ?

[Pheeva]

true say mate. i dont like schranz...










I ****ING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Agreed!!!! ; )

[jon connor]

One day there will be a pioneer mixer with a schranze effect added to it.
A compressor and fuzz effect.
Then you will no longer need to buy shcranze, just play any record (locked grooves preferable) through the effect (at 155 -165bpm), and bobs your uncle. Skkrannzzz a go-go.
Should keep the kids amused for another 5 minutes before they wander off to download I know what you did last summer 10 to play on their PSPs

hahahhaha quality.....

[recoil]

It was the schranz in 2002-2004 that made me decide to spin techno, now it's the kind of music that just isn't my thing. There is hardly diversity nor originality in that subgenre and so it becomes boring.

[loopdon]

To each their own.

[TechMouse]

surely if you hear a shit schranz mix it would be 90% down to the DJ?
If you hear a shit mix in any style of music it's 100% down to the DJ.

What other factors are there?

(Assuming the rig isn't going south...)

[fac]

so there are actually good schranz mixes? doubt this. if its a good mix it aint schranz. pretty easy...

[MorePunkThanFunk]

I`ll turn it around and ask for ome examples of something that isn`t following the route of same old same old made-to-fit-my-hero`s sound techno.

I think there is some great schranze out there, as is other techno, but for the good stuff there is a 20-1 ratio of sounds just-the-same as "insert genre leader here"

I think it`s easy to scapegoat schranze, but it`s a wider problem.

Too many people just making tunes to be popular or get ahead/get a name.

Obviously, this is my cynical view though.

no i completely agree, i think the majority of techno and tbh dance on the whole is the same old stuff being churned out over and over again with the exception of a minority of records being unbelievably good.

[MorePunkThanFunk]

It was the schranz in 2002-2004 that made me decide to spin techno, now it's the kind of music that just isn't my thing. There is hardly diversity nor originality in that subgenre and so it becomes boring.


this is the thing, people are pidgeon holing themselves to one sub genre. if i played for example only tribal stuff it'd get pretty boring, same way shranz is pretty boring after a while.

on the whole i'm not that into shranz but i do own a fair few shranz records that i drop when the time is right. it's all about playing the full spectrum of available music. in my sets you'll hear everythin from funky, tribal, minimal, hard, acid, breaks, shranz etc. keeps it interesting,