Screw sales... do what you want....

[crime]

It's occurred to me that the biggest problem with "Techno music" these days is that people worry about sales too much, to the point where it compromises their music..

I've started working to pay the rent recently, so that I can forget about the sellability of the music I make, and not worry if I don't have a gig on a certain month, and I think it's freed me up no end..

It's made me view music once more in the way that I used to when I first got into it..

When I first discovered this music, it wasn't about sales, or getting a gig in this club or that club, but purely about love of music, about finding something new and different, and I feel it's all gone wrong the moment people start viewing music as a commodity..

ok, you have to pay the rent, and labels have to cover their costs, but I feel that far far better music has been made when the writer was just doing what they wanted to, and were trying to do something different to please themselves, not trying to be a carbon copy of their heros, making music in a particular "Style" do fit into a pidgeonhole which is easy to sell, or purely pumping out product to keep their "Profile" up just to get more gigs... this last one I particuarly despise, it's like techno's answer to "Big Brother".. surely if you want fame, go and make a F ucking electroclash record....

[Aratron]

It's occurred to me that the biggest problem with "Techno music" these days is that people worry about sales too much, to the point where it compromises their music..

I've started working to pay the rent recently, so that I can forget about the sellability of the music I make, and not worry if I don't have a gig on a certain month, and I think it's freed me up no end..

It's made me view music once more in the way that I used to when I first got into it..

When I first discovered this music, it wasn't about sales, or getting a gig in this club or that club, but purely about love of music, about finding something new and different, and I feel it's all gone wrong the moment people start viewing music as a commodity..

ok, you have to pay the rent, and labels have to cover their costs, but I feel that far far better music has been made when the writer was just doing what they wanted to, and were trying to do something different to please themselves, not trying to be a carbon copy of their heros, making music in a particular "Style" do fit into a pidgeonhole which is easy to sell, or purely pumping out product to keep their "Profile" up just to get more gigs... this last one I particuarly despise, it's like techno's answer to "Big Brother".. surely if you want fame, go and make a F ucking electroclash record....


why dont you start a schranz label mate? the new theme tune to Noddy could do with a good schranzing.:;

[eyeswithoutaface]

amen

this has been my aim from the beginning and without a doubt the best way to operate in this scene imo. I bet you noticed the stress literaly lift off your shoulders mark mate, no?

people seem to be under the impression that as long as they keep pumping out their wares (and i mean pumping, there are some people releasing who have very worrying ratios of release) then they'l automatically rise to the top. Not so. If you were shoving out like 15, 20 records a year like some people do, by logic the quality control over all these records is going to waver.

Alot of people need to slowdown, stop acting like techno owes them a living and face up to a bit of reality now and then. Having a regular job brings back that division between making music for my own love of it, and making music out of neccesity. And that's not music. It's just simply product. Which isnt nice at all

[dan the acid man]

plus you can use your bad mood after working all day in a crap job to make some seriously moody music :)

[RDR]

plus you can use your bad mood after working all day in a crap job to make some seriously moody music :)

Try writing polka music... now that shits evil...

[audioinjection]

It's occurred to me that the biggest problem with "Techno music" these days is that people worry about sales too much, to the point where it compromises their music..

I've started working to pay the rent recently, so that I can forget about the sellability of the music I make, and not worry if I don't have a gig on a certain month, and I think it's freed me up no end..

It's made me view music once more in the way that I used to when I first got into it..

When I first discovered this music, it wasn't about sales, or getting a gig in this club or that club, but purely about love of music, about finding something new and different, and I feel it's all gone wrong the moment people start viewing music as a commodity..

ok, you have to pay the rent, and labels have to cover their costs, but I feel that far far better music has been made when the writer was just doing what they wanted to, and were trying to do something different to please themselves, not trying to be a carbon copy of their heros, making music in a particular "Style" do fit into a pidgeonhole which is easy to sell, or purely pumping out product to keep their "Profile" up just to get more gigs... this last one I particuarly despise, it's like techno's answer to "Big Brother".. surely if you want fame, go and make a F ucking electroclash record....

i gotta agree with ya on this to an extent........because i can't completely put myself in the position of producers or label owners that make a living off of gigs and records.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

this is exactly why i class djing and making music as two totally seperate things. djing for me pays the bills and gets me a life (well, at the same time i absolutely love it and i try to be groundbreaking in my own little way). god i've been lucky to be able to do things this way. but once i get in that studio.... mannnnnnn.. money comes no-where near the equation.... it simply cant. i can't see how making money will enable you focus on music without taking away from the music itself.... no way this can happen in my book... but that's my opinion :cool:

[dirty_bass]

this is exactly why i class djing and making music as two totally seperate things. djing for me pays the bills and gets me a life (well, at the same time i absolutely love it and i try to be groundbreaking in my own little way). god i've been lucky to be able to do things this way. but once i get in that studio.... mannnnnnn.. money comes no-where near the equation.... it simply cant. i can't see how making money will enable you focus on music without taking away from the music itself.... no way this can happen in my book... but that's my opinion :cool:

Of coarse, should go without saying.
However, when you put out a BOA record
I`m sure you don`t want it lying around gathering dust in your distrib

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Of coarse, should go without saying.
However, when you put out a BOA record
I`m sure you don`t want it lying around gathering dust in your distrib

well that's exactly why suf handle the complete business side of boa vinyl. if i get a cheque from them after 6 months, great. if i don't, great. the guys will tell you, trying to get an invoice from me for any amount they have for me is like getting blood out of a stone :cheese:

i know for sure this would be very, very different if i didn't have my djing...

[Miromiric]

this is exactly why i class djing and making music as two totally seperate things. djing for me pays the bills and gets me a life (well, at the same time i absolutely love it and i try to be groundbreaking in my own little way). god i've been lucky to be able to do things this way. but once i get in that studio.... mannnnnnn.. money comes no-where near the equation.... it simply cant. i can't see how making money will enable you focus on music without taking away from the music itself.... no way this can happen in my book... but that's my opinion

:cool:

good marko.

[TechMouse]

Bugger, so this isn't a DIY store thread, then?

[eyeswithoutaface]

Bugger, so this isn't a DIY store thread, then?


hahaha nearly spat my tea out when i read that

[kai]

Amen to all thats been said - its for that reason that I'm only ever planning to put out anything I produce - and I'm a long way from ever producing at a high enough quality to do this yet - for free over the net rather than actually selling them and earning my income from a day job.

To me music is an art form and should be made for its own artistic merit and to please the maker rather than as a product as commercialisation of art inherantly influences and changes the final product - there again I am a crusty at heart and a firm believer in keeping music as free as possible so as to be open to all and an inclusive force within society.

[robin m]

This is a very refreshing thread to read... it's good to hear that people with talent & a history of quality releases are still able to take a stance that's not all about cash in their pocket.

In an ideal world people who deserve it & dedicate themselves wouldn't have a problem making a living from their art but that's rarely the case. Good music has to be made for it's own sake rather than profit - fair play Mark, I hope you manage to make a living from your music but respect for not claiming it owes you that :clap:

[dirty_bass]

well that's exactly why suf handle the complete business side of boa vinyl. if i get a cheque from them after 6 months, great. if i don't, great. the guys will tell you, trying to get an invoice from me for any amount they have for me is like getting blood out of a stone :cheese:

i know for sure this would be very, very different if i didn't have my djing...

Ah but then why release a record at all.
We don`t do it just for the knowledge that music can be made into plastic do we?
Regardless of money I`m sure you want people to buy the records, if it was just for the love then why not just give it all away.

I`m not even slightly saying that money should be a motivator for releasing, however, all this altruistic stuff we get on here can be a little turgid.

We put out records because we want people to hear it and play it.
Not for some higher cayse of a messiaanic "gift" to the fans.

Otherwise, we would give it all away.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Ah but then why release a record at all.
We don`t do it just for the knowledge that music can be made into plastic do we?
Regardless of money I`m sure you want people to buy the records, if it was just for the love then why not just give it all away.

I`m not even slightly saying that money should be a motivator for releasing, however, all this altruistic stuff we get on here can be a little turgid.

We put out records because we want people to hear it and play it.
Not for some higher cayse of a messiaanic "gift" to the fans.

Otherwise, we would give it all away.

i suppose i wanted to release so i could play my trax out at first - just like any other dj would. it was a natural progression. i respected artists and labels hugely, and wanted to do that shit! but nothing could prepare you for that first vinyl that came in the post with our names on. you know, i still get such a massive buzz from getting the vinyl back, touching it, playing it and thinking 'shit man, i did that'. that was enough for me, i didn't need paying for it. also listening to the difference in cut from the original, how it was mastered and how to improve your sound. plus when someone else comes up and says 'wow mark and chrissi i got your release on blah blah and it rocks!' - what an incredible high that is - that someone else digs your sound. you don't quite get that intense satisfaction from making a piece of music on CD as you do on vinyl. sure it's still massive, but until the CD becomes a standard format in the techno/dj world, it just wont be the same....

onto the record/cd debate again. anyone? hehe :briggin:

[dirty_bass]

plus when someone else comes up and says 'wow mark and chrissi i got your release on blah blah and it rocks!'


That`s what I was waiting for.
Sometimes it gets so odd in here that it seems like you are not allowed to talk about shifting records.

We want em shifted, and when we find out that a lot of them have shifted, it`s great, it means people dig it, and have actually put the effort in to hand over some cash for it.

And I`ll be the first to stand up and say, there is nothing wrong with getting paid for something you enjoy.
there, I said it.
In fact, in terms of money, there is nothing better than getting payed for doing something you enjoy.
Cos then it doesn`t feel like you are giving your time away to someone to make them richer, ie the shareholders, the boss etc.

Now when the money becomes your only motivation in art of any kind, that can be a problem.
But still, there is nothing wrong and nothing bad about being paid for doing something you love.

And before anyone decides to jump on me as the bad guy, like I`m some money motivated ****er.

Everything I release (on my label anyway), has been available online for free before it was released.
Usually available right here on BOA, so no, I`m not motivated by cashola.

But anyone with a release, wants to know it is selling well, rather than sitting on a shelf. As it means it is being appreciated.

[Aratron]

Bugger, so this isn't a DIY store thread, then?

:laughing:

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Bugger, so this isn't a DIY store thread, then?

I totally missed that. Hahahahahaha. Best post for ages!!!! :crackup:

[Little_Fella!]

@Crime : Now that is a very interesting observation... The mind has a strange habit of reacting in accordance with it's surroundings...

When you are back in a position that your mind remembers from b4, back to basics so to speak, where your motivation to create and achieve was based on certain principles that you had then, your enthusiasm for innovation increases thus bringing about a greater focus and sense of enjoyment for what you are creating...

This then can translate into some of your finest works, as has been seen countless times b4 with artists who have been bouyed by the ebbs n flows of the music industry...

Not meaning to say this is exactly how it is with you but rather to bring about the question, if I may, that as the market changes and say, you find yourself with improved circulation and bookings etc., maybe achieving more than you have so far, would you be able to approach the studio with the same attitude now that you have come to this awareness...?

[Little_Fella!]

@ Dirty Bass : This is spot on imo...

Can I add to this train of thought jus by saying, like it or not, record sales are the necessary bench mark for the whole industry as an indicator as to how well a particular artist is doing in relative terms to the genre of music that he/she is creating within...

Without the incentive that if someone likes a certain work of art that they are prepared to pay for it, you cannot have an accurate reflection as to how popular, shall we say, the artist is at any given time and therefore there isn't a music 'industry' to operate within...

Utopia anyone...? lol:)

[crime]

Ok, my thoughts on the replies here...

I think there's nothing wrong with making money out of music, I'd be a hypocrite if I did, I've earned my living from it for the past 4 years, I mean do you think an artist would give away his paintings for free just because he had a day job?? I don't think so...

my point is more not worrying about whether it will be popular or not, and artisticly going in the direction you want to, ignoring all the people, such as distributors who will try and tell you "It's good, but we can't sell it"

...especially when these records sell through in the end, and often go on to be classics (I mean records that didn't fit the mold, and therefore scared distributors off possibly)

I mean, I think it's the biggest cliche in any kind of underground music, that no-one in techno would admit that they are driven by money, but I'm sure that a lot of it, in one way or another, is. For instance, being told by a distributor that you have to change things to fit in with what they think is selling right now.

It just seemed to me that it got to the point where you are screwed if you don't fit into a nice little box that's easy to sell and understand.. I appreciate that distributors have to sell records, and not all distributors are like this, but when you take the examples of Prime and Integrale, where it seemed to me that the Label Management A&R was basically "If you don't sound like the other records we sell, forget it" I think this can really make people fall into line, let's face it, the evidence is out there in record stores around the world...

this is what, to me, has stifled the style and prevented progression, and inevitably made me far more interested in hearing what people like Aphex, Venetian Snares, Boards of canada and many other more diverse things..

I don't see the 2 things from seperate, the DJing/Performance and producing... Not for me anyway, I don't play such hard music these days, and I have no desire too, especially when I felt so out of place at hard techno parties.. Maybe this is because I'm playing live a lot, and playing the stuff which will be coming out on vinyl soon...

Anyway, half way through working on my album right now, and totally destroyed from 2 gigs in Southern Russia this weekend, I think we're going to make a bleep radio special from it maybe.... ;)

[Adey]

good on yer mr hawkins :)