wheres the fat basslines gone

[...Dave...]

have to search pretty hard these days to find techno with propper funky basslines.

the main reason i keep going back to house.

TECHNO NEEDS MORE FUNKY BASSLINES.

so lets have some please.
maybe i am just stuck in the past or something. and some of you may scoff, but i been listening to a umek mix from 2001 and it made me realise this.

wheres the funk gone. some really nice funky tough minimal about you get the odd bando type tune but there not much about.

or if there is please tell me whos doing it.

[RDR]

I Do!!!!!

I agree!

Bass is ace.. more please MORE i say!

[Stella Boy]

i picked this up last week and is one of the funkiest trax i've heard for a long time. No big fat bassline that you're probably referring to but it doesn't need one to be funky :briggin:

http://www.ds2shop.co.uk/inigo-kennedy-identify-yourself-token-p-1428.html?cPath=17

[Clit Commander]

i picked this up last week and is one of the funkiest trax i've heard for a long time. No big fat bassline that you're probably referring to but it doesn't need one to be funky :briggin:

http://www.ds2shop.co.uk/inigo-kennedy-identify-yourself-token-p-1428.html?cPath=17

really good stuff that one!

[loopdon]

it all comes in cycles. and yes, i agree!

[dirty_bass]

Nooo we don`t need more basslines, that involves music.
What we need in more sub rumble under the kicks, so that they go boommmmmboommmmmboommmmmmmm
Bass is no where near important enough to warrant actually doing something with it.

[RDR]

Nooo we don`t need more basslines, that involves music.
What we need in more sub rumble under the kicks, so that they go boommmmmboommmmmboommmmmmmm
Bass is no where near important enough to warrant actually doing something with it.

How DARE you.. how VERY DARE you.




;)

[DannyBlack]

fat bass lines are like womens arses, getting skinnier and not as apparent.

[dan the acid man]

fat bass lines are like womens arses, getting skinnier and not as apparent.

haha:laughing: :laughing:

this is one of the reasons i've been listening to alot more of my tech house collection

[...Dave...]

Techno Needs More House:)

[DannyBlack]

And Women Need Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooties!!!!!

God Damn It, Bring Back The Lopez Arse!

[davethedrummer]

Techno Needs More House:)

techno needs more techno

[DannyBlack]

techno needs more techno

it needs to mutate to survive..

eh eh eh eh wink wink nudge nudge

you see what i did?

alright, i'l get me coat.

[TechMouse]

Cirez D?

[DannyBlack]

Cirez D?

definately. i only have a couple of their records, but they are all nice and bassie.
bit slow tho.

[dirty_bass]

bit slow tho.

Price you pay.
You want big phat bass then you need plenty of room for them to breath, so slower tunes allow more space for phatter sounds.

[DannyBlack]

Price you pay.
You want big phat bass then you need plenty of room for them to breath, so slower tunes allow more space for phatter sounds.

very good point.
thats why i play a load of electro too, plenty 'o' bass to be had.
i love 'Der schmeisser's "Nas fank". veeeeery bassie!

[rhythmtech]

definately. i only have a couple of their records, but they are all nice and bassie.
bit slow tho.

firstly dude.. i dont wanna upset you and im not sure whether you know this.. but cirez d is eric prydz of call on me rmx fame :laughing: :laughing:

still bloody genius when he pulls on the cirez d hat..

i dont think his stuff is too slow.. i think he hits the right tempo for that style.. some electro house i do find a little slow but his stuff sits just nicely.

[TechMouse]

firstly dude.. i dont wanna upset you and im not sure whether you know this.. but cirez d is eric prydz of call on me rmx fame :laughing: :laughing:

still bloody genius when he pulls on the cirez d hat..
I did know that.

You can pretty much tell, the production style is very similar.

You can see why he uses the alias!

Quite a few people do that sort of thing, of course...

[fac]

thats why i play a load of electro tooelectro like cirez d? :laughing:

[rhythmtech]

I did know that.

You can pretty much tell, the production style is very similar.

You can see why he uses the alias!

Quite a few people do that sort of thing, of course...

sorry.. that comment was to the prowler.. or wannbe paddy as he's more commonly known :laughing:

[Lag]

Techno Needs More House:)
this, i understand, is a joke

but its the truth
techno needs more house
techno needs more music to it
and less banging

just listen to sven vath & ritchie hawtin - sound of the third season

that was techno the way i liked it
since it became all hertz and grindvik and redhead i stopped caring

and its been that way untill i bumped into industrial tech and, later on, the deep shit

[rhythmtech]

this, i understand, is a joke

but its the truth
techno needs more house
techno needs more music to it
and less banging





since it became all hertz

personally i think what hertz has done with sway, hztrax and abyss is possibley some of the most musical techno out there..

[DannyBlack]

sorry.. that comment was to the prowler.. or wannbe paddy as he's more commonly known :laughing:


very bitchie today arent you! you dont get more irish than me mate.

FACT!

anyway........... your ma.

[rhythmtech]

very bitchie today arent you! you dont get more irish than me mate.

FACT!

anyway........... your ma.

funniest waterford accent i've ever heard :briggin:

and... YOUR ma

[DannyBlack]

funniest waterford accent i've ever heard :briggin:

and... YOUR ma


its true mate, no denying it....


Hi, Im Danny and im english...

your ma.

[Lag]

personally i think what hertz has done with sway, hztrax and abyss is possibley some of the most musical techno out there..

loops with efx?

[DannyBlack]

personally i think what hertz has done with sway, hztrax and abyss is possibley some of the most musical techno out there..


like that tim trax tune 'track it back' the remix by hertz is very good.

[rhythmtech]

loops with efx?

no offence intended but you've obviously not been listening to much hertz stuff..

and show me some techno that isnt loop based.. actually show me any music that isnt loop based.. besides freeform jazz.. all music has motifs that appear and re-occur. which really only amounts to loops. evryone uses loops. everybassline is looped. kick drums are looped. its what you do with the loops that makes it stand out. and IMO hertz does it well. he has a lovely polished sound, good tunes that work on the dancefloor and for just listening to and he's not afraid to try something differant.. just listen to his pierre j stuff on abyss.

im really not in the mood for an argument on why producer X is more talented than producer Y, so just accept my opinion and move on.. theres too much sh*it slinging around this place.. theres room in techno for every style, get used to it.

when i refer to loops im not talkin about off the shelf sample packs.. im talking about midi stuff that would be looped.. nobody sits there re-cording in a whole bassline of a track by hand.. its just not really feasable.. AND if on the off chance they do then they'll quantise it.. which ultimitly may as well be looped in the first place.

[DannyBlack]

im really not in the mood for an argument on why producer X is more talented than producer Y,.


producer X is savage mate, producer Y is a toss pot.

[rhythmtech]

producer X is savage mate, producer Y is a toss pot.


:laughing: :laughing:

[Lag]

no offence intended but you've obviously not been listening to much hertz stuff..

and show me some techno that isnt loop based.. actually show me any music that isnt loop based.. besides freeform jazz.. all music has motifs that appear and re-occur. which really only amounts to loops. evryone uses loops. everybassline is looped. kick drums are looped. its what you do with the loops that makes it stand out. and IMO hertz does it well. he has a lovely polished sound, good tunes that work on the dancefloor and for just listening to and he's not afraid to try something differant.. just listen to his pierre j stuff on abyss.

im really not in the mood for an argument on why producer X is more talented than producer Y, so just accept my opinion and move on.. theres too much sh*it slinging around this place.. theres room in techno for every style, get used to it.

when i refer to loops im not talkin about off the shelf sample packs.. im talking about midi stuff that would be looped.. nobody sits there re-cording in a whole bassline of a track by hand.. its just not really feasable.. AND if on the off chance they do then they'll quantise it.. which ultimitly may as well be looped in the first place.
you totally missinterpreted what i wanted to say

[rhythmtech]

you totally missinterpreted what i wanted to say

fair enough m8. :)

what did you mean? (im not closed to debate.. i just wish people would explain there reasons more on here.. sometimes its very easy to mis-interpret words on a screen)

[DannyBlack]

fair enough m8. :)

what did you mean? (im not closed to debate.. i just wish people would explain there reasons more on here.. sometimes its very easy to mis-interpret words on a screen)


i hear you mass debate a lot mate.

[acidguru]

Check Killian`s Set in the Filez section for some proper basslines...

[Lag]

fair enough m8. :)

what did you mean? (im not closed to debate.. i just wish people would explain there reasons more on here.. sometimes its very easy to mis-interpret words on a screen)
i mean that it isnt very musical
and patterns dont vary very much from tact to tact

lucky 17, recreate and stuff like that is pretty simple, not much complex harmony going in there

hes technically very good, and uses a lot of efx in places they should be used
but still, that isnt music
music is james ruskin - paranoia
or fatboy slim - push and shove
or gorillaz - kids with guns
or kenny larkin - fake french (epic mix)

[rhythmtech]

i mean that it isnt very musical
and patterns dont vary very much from tact to tact

lucky 17, recreate and stuff like that is pretty simple, not much complex harmony going in there

hes technically very good, and uses a lot of efx in places they should be used
but still, that isnt music
music is james ruskin - paranoia
or fatboy slim - push and shove
or gorillaz - kids with guns
or kenny larkin - fake french (epic mix)

but theres a lot of great music out there that isnt very musical. i dont think people should get hung up on the muso thing too much.. what makes great music isnt the chord progressions its the effect it has on the listener.. im a musician thru and thru m8 and i still love hertz stuff. im also a huge fan of dead can dance, doesnt mean i think they're any better than hertz because they're better musicians.

i know plenty of good musicians who couldnt get a track going.. yet i know lads that can only play 3 note basslines but have written some of the best tunes i've ever heard.

[eyeswithoutaface]

gotta agree with Ryukku im afraid, and for techno to pull itself out of this pretty stale stage it's in right now, then more people SHOULD be getting hung up on the musical side of things. There's pretty much nothing musical about Hertz tracks at all, and im a massive Hertz fan, i love his production, i love the phatness in some of his loops and tracks, he's done his share for techno no doubt, and he's even done stuff i bet half of you guys didnt even know was him. But musical it aint. It's totally solid, dancefloor techno. It does what it says on the tin. I wouldnt listen to Hertz if i was in the mood for being totally washed over by something beautiful musically well structured, performed and orchestrated to perfection. Same was as i wouldnt listen to Mozart or Verdi if i wanted to get down to some solid no-nonsense loopage.

it is essentially 100% the chord progressions and structure that makes good music, because if they dont have at least some co-herence, then the impact on the listener is pretty much determined before they've heard it. It's not going to sound great to them if it doesnt to you.

People need to detract from the meanings behind terms such as "music" as opposed to terms like "musical". Massive differences.

a great example of techno that is truely musical, check out Booka Shade. Then listen to most of the Sway releases. As much as i love them, and i have pretty much all the Sway's, they aint musical.

quite a good little discussion this actually :), especially considering who started the thread hey chaps

[eyeswithoutaface]

John Beltran

now there's some ****ing musicality boys and girls!!!!

[rhythmtech]

but again we're back to the old listening/dancefloor techno debate. booka shade (to me) has no place on a techno dancefloor. here another example: marks BOA label.. hardly the most "musical" label BUT it wipes dancefloors.. and, to me, thats what techno is all about. ITS MUSIC MADE FOR DANCING. i know i can listen to electronic music like the knife or the orb or whatever and its a beautiful listening experience but it wouldnt stand up in a banging techno set because it hasnt got dancefloor sensibilities..

maybe we need to think in new musical terms when labeling techno, maybe porduction and asthetics have become as much a part of the music as the tune itself? not saying that we dont need a good tune. i still think a good tune is paramount, but in all honesty a good tune can be 3/4 notes (like hertz) as much as it can be a big orchestral masterpiece.

[eyeswithoutaface]

i get your point mate, and i agree on some things, but to be honest it's the kind of opinion that, to me, just seems a little narrow minded. Dont take that in the sense of saying your not open to new things which is the main meaning, example, you dont think Booka Shade is dancefloor techno. Mate, seriously, Booka Shade is like going to a full on gig by your favourite band, it's dancefloor techno on a whole other level, detracting from the head's down, stomp till u drop side of things, which i still love of course, but this is something else. It's the way i personally think the scene needs to move into alot, lot more.

The sheer effort that goes into putting on shows like Booka do brings a whole new feeling and sense of energy to a gig, even if they are slotted in between 2 pretty regular, run of the mills (boom boom!) dj's playing the usual looped techno. Just seeing an instrument being played to create techno gets my juices going, as im sure it does your's having been in bands yourself, and i just think thats the direction alot of people could consider definately.

and seriously, u drop "little fluffy clouds" mid set and watch those who get it just fall at your feet mate. i've played the strangest tracks midset at times, all for my personal gratification of course, and expected a hail of bottles but i think on the whole, certainly over the past 2, 3 years, people are actually seeking out that sense of never knowing whats coming next, as much of a juxtoposition as it sounds, i mean how can you look for something that you dont know is coming, but you understand

although one bad example i have heard of such experimentation was in Atomic Jam once, some woeful dj played Jason Nevins "it's like that" into Surgeon "midnight club tracks 2"

it sounded as bad as it looks written down

[rhythmtech]

but surely if everything goes in that direction then ther'll be a backlash and people will start wanting heads down stuff again?

i agree that booka shade has its place.. and from what i've heard they're fukin very good. but thats my whole point entirely, everything has its place. heads down, musical, glitch whatever.. each can co-exist side by side.. i dont think tehcno needs to go in any direction at all, i think it just needs to keep being techno.

what is the point in everyone running in the same direction? theres plenty of room for experimentation within the so called "looped" genre.. same as theres plenty of rome to crank it up in the mnml genre.. cross pollenation is the key, not extreme measures.

[eyeswithoutaface]

well considering i never said everything should go down that route, no. Some people definately would not benefit from bringing their music into a more live orientated environment, but i know categorically some people absolutely fly playing full live gigs.

and to be honest, everyone is practically running in the same direction now, especially within their own subgenres, and only really seem to move out of their safety zone into another relative safety zone.

put it this way, right now as the scene stands, i would much, much rather be one of the lowly people like ourselves than one of the bigger and systematically known for one style big boys. Anyday of the week.

[Lag]

but theres a lot of great music out there that isnt very musical. i dont think people should get hung up on the muso thing too much.. what makes great music isnt the chord progressions its the effect it has on the listener.. im a musician thru and thru m8 and i still love hertz stuff. im also a huge fan of dead can dance, doesnt mean i think they're any better than hertz because they're better musicians.

i know plenty of good musicians who couldnt get a track going.. yet i know lads that can only play 3 note basslines but have written some of the best tunes i've ever heard.
rythm is music too
music is voice + melody + rythm
all should be complicated and harmonic
if one is missing, the other two can make up for it
someone even likes just two (like i dont like vocals)

but dude, one cant make up for two elements missing
its almost impossible

if u look back, im sure ull realise that techno didnt become big because it was hard. it became big, because its emotions were strong. when there was no emotions left, just the hard punching kick and some empty melodies to fill the space around it - techno died out

[rhythmtech]

i know what you mean about the safety zone thing.. but thats a tough bridge to cross and sometimes crossing it in small increments can be a step forward.. for instance i've just finished a tune with a slap bass in it, its still techno but a small step in another direction for me.. and aswell you have to remember that the output we hear from artists isnt their only output.

if an artist tries to cross genres they arent always accpted on musical ability by the new genre, however good their tunes are. we both know that the snobbery within differant genres can be a little ridiculas at times. so sometimes staying safe is only what we perceive from an artist.

as for artists with their own labels.. well i cant really make any excuses.. they have the option to try differant stuff BUT theres always the fear of bad sales. if you've worked hard to gain a reputation as a solid label is it really wise to put that rep in jepordy? can you still maintain our label if you have a run of bad sales? i know that in an ideal world we could all try to be as experimental as possible but in this day and age its a differant ball game. unlike the "innovators" of techno, people now have a lot more to lose.. its established business now and, ugly as it is, money plays a very important part in what gets heard.

[rhythmtech]

if u look back, im sure ull realise that techno didnt become big because it was hard. it became big, because its emotions were strong. when there was no emotions left, just the hard punching kick and some empty melodies to fill the space around it - techno died out

m8.. i never once thought techno had to be hard.. in fact if i hear anything over 145 i start getting the shakes :laughing:

i love melodic techno, i think that techno should have music to it. but what im saying is that musicians dont have to be accomplished musos to write a great tune. look at the punk scene.. some of my fave music ever has come from punk.. and bar 1 or 2 bands (subhumans for one) most punk bands played pretty simplistic stuff. it was about attitude and attitude coming across in music. i think hertz has a certain attitude to his music.. a lot of people will cite him as a favourite producer because of the amount of funk that he generates in a tune. he certainly isnt just a big kick and some loops.

i know this cause if he was i wouldnt be bothered listening.

[eyeswithoutaface]

the thing about artists crossing genre's is 99% of the time sheer ignorance and selfishness on the punters half when they get slagged off. Beyer is the classic. I know so many hard techno heads who simply wont even listen to Beyers new output because it aint drumcode, so those kinda guys have lost the battle before he's even started, but as you pointed out it is a business of course, and this kind of thing wont affect someone like Beyer these days obviously. He could start doing Hungarian Polka and people would still turn up to see him play.

This whole thing only becomes as much of a business as the individual lets it. If you want to run a label, and you have done your homework, dont come crying when u end up losing money hand over fist. Which you will, pretty much guaranteed in some way, shape or form. Im not saying this to you i mean in general. Im sick of people going "oh its a business, its a money thing etc etc etc " because that's only true to a certain extent, it only gets as business like as a person wishes it to become so, to my amazement there are actually people putting out records on their own labels and others who will never know how many records they are selling, and dont care either.

someone said to me once the distributors only let you know when ur records are selling badly, and the more i release, the more i find this is true hahaha

[eyeswithoutaface]

i think there's a couple of convo's here now isnt there :)

[rhythmtech]

i think in our case we researched thoroughly b4 deciding to start the label.. and luckily we're perpared and in the position to lose money.. but we still want the label to be a success so we decided to go with what we know ie pumpin dancefloor techno. maybe someday when we start makin something of it we'll be able to start a rmxs off shoot.

hopefully if we do it will be a REAL rmxs label.. not just more techno versions of the tunes.. i'd love to hear dub, d'n'b, mnml, glitch, elctro versions of the techno we release.. but like i said, thats way down the line.. at the moment im gonna concentrate on what i know best and hope it works

[dirty_bass]

but again we're back to the old listening/dancefloor techno debate. booka shade (to me) has no place on a techno dancefloor. here another example: marks BOA label.. hardly the most "musical" label BUT it wipes dancefloors.. and, to me, thats what techno is all about. ITS MUSIC MADE FOR DANCING. i know i can listen to electronic music like the knife or the orb or whatever and its a beautiful listening experience but it wouldnt stand up in a banging techno set because it hasnt got dancefloor sensibilities..

maybe we need to think in new musical terms when labeling techno, maybe porduction and asthetics have become as much a part of the music as the tune itself? not saying that we dont need a good tune. i still think a good tune is paramount, but in all honesty a good tune can be 3/4 notes (like hertz) as much as it can be a big orchestral masterpiece.

I kinda disagree.
you can have music and rock a danceloor.
You only have to look to the disco era 70`s
Masses of musicality (whether you like it, or not) and huge amounts of people digging it and getting down.
Ok so that was a wierd example.
But as soon as every tom, dick and DJ thought they could make (music) "techno", by knocking together some loops and processing them to phuck, techno hit it`s lowest patch ever. The glut and slew of 2000 to present day, when I backlash is finally happaning.
Sure, loopy dancefloor only stuff has it`s merits, but it became the norm, just loops and dancefloor and nothing else.
Is it any wonder that techno is the dance music with the lowest sales, lowest club attendance, least events etc.
People just can`t relate to it. And people do like to be able to recognise something, anything, some kind of hook, that they can then go "oh yeah, I heard this last month, or whatever, it`s wicked, I`m gonna dance".
Interestingly the female perspective comes in again, as a whole (and I`m being careful not to tar all girls with the same brush), women generally prefer melody or some kind of tune in music.
Across the board, that`s why the more obscure music, from dance music to bands, has more blokes and less chicks in attendance.

So sure, there`s room for a bit of loop-de-loop to keep the DJ`s happy, but I think musicality and tunefullness is also just as essential.

and it is elitist I know, but really we could do with more musicians making music, and less DJ`s using their names to knock out substandard cack.

[rhythmtech]

defintily i agree..

i think people are getting the idea that i dont think there should be music in techno.. there defintly should BUT i dont think you need to be a muso to do it.. what im saying is that a few notes can be as solid in the right place as 100 notes.. look at early works by the jam. now i know weller & co. were gifted but the early stuff is still simplisticly brilliant.

[Lag]

m8.. i never once thought techno had to be hard.. in fact if i hear anything over 145 i start getting the shakes :laughing:

i love melodic techno, i think that techno should have music to it. but what im saying is that musicians dont have to be accomplished musos to write a great tune. look at the punk scene.. some of my fave music ever has come from punk.. and bar 1 or 2 bands (subhumans for one) most punk bands played pretty simplistic stuff. it was about attitude and attitude coming across in music. i think hertz has a certain attitude to his music.. a lot of people will cite him as a favourite producer because of the amount of funk that he generates in a tune. he certainly isnt just a big kick and some loops.

i know this cause if he was i wouldnt be bothered listening.
punk is a music of vocals and attitude
it doesnt have to do anything with music
while techno, since its creatioin, was all about music
so you cant actually compare the two

and you keep missing the point. yes, hertz has melodies. yes, hertz is funky. but dude, its simple as it gets. as i said, its just tunes to fill the space around the kick.
u can sing out any hertz tune
try singing out james ruskin - profile =P

[rhythmtech]

im gonna back out of this now for 2 reasons.

a. i really cant get my head around your attitude. i love all types of techno. i dont discount any techno because of simplicity. if its good its good. simple.

and 2. im tired :laughing:

[rhythmtech]

and techno is ALL about attitude. techno without attitude may aswell be pop music.

[Lag]

haha
cool
we just see music in different ways
or look for different things in it

peace

[rhythmtech]

haha
cool
we just see music in different ways
or look for different things in it

peace

peace bruv

[DannyBlack]

ha ha ha ha ha! what a nice ending!

you know what? i love techno, i mean really love it. whether it be minimal, hard, progressive or even schranz its all music of different variations and its all beautiful.
to me it is the best form of music.

[dirty_bass]

techno is ALL about attitude.

As soon as you define it, and give it parameters, it stops becoming techno.
I think it should be fluid, constantly changing, and "futuristic" as EG likes to say.
To suggest it all should have attitude, takes away the stuff that works on a different level, the spacey stuff
the moody, downbeat stuff
the psychadelic
the laid back

It`s more than just attitude.

[rhythmtech]

As soon as you define it, and give it parameters, it stops becoming techno.
I think it should be fluid, constantly changing, and "futuristic" as EG likes to say.
To suggest it all should have attitude, takes away the stuff that works on a different level, the spacey
the moody, downbeat stuff
the psychadelic
the laid back

It`s more than just attitude.

attitude can be a lot of differant things. music can have a spacey attitude, a moody attitude, phychadelic attitude or a laid back attitude... dont take the meaning of the word in its literal sense.

and as soon as you stop putting parameters on something it stops being what it was and starts becoming something else, as much as that might upset your ideas about what techno should/shouldnt be, its the truth... if i make techno that has an electro arrangement, uses electro sounds and gets electro fans excited then surely i've just made electro?

if this isnt true then y did you publicly state something about you not making "techno" (cant remember the exact description you used for it)? surely then you can make what you want and its still techno?

[loopdon]

Now where have those fat basslines gone then? :)

[dirty_bass]

and as soon as you stop putting parameters on something it stops being what it was and starts becoming something else, as much as that might upset your ideas about what techno should/shouldnt be, its the truth... if i make techno that has an electro arrangement, uses electro sounds and gets electro fans excited then surely i've just made electro?

if this isnt true then y did you publicly state something about you not making "techno" (cant remember the exact description you used for it)? surely then you can make what you want and its still techno?

But tht`s the whole point. all definitions of techno are different to all people.
To the uninitiated, techno is any electronic music.
Then things get split and split and split.
If we go back to the pure sense, then only detroit is techno.
The point is, the fluidity.
I believe the intention of the originators was to make music that didn`t sound like anything else.

Now you have producers who commit to a sound.
They are trying to sound like techno, like chris liberator, like adam beyer, like glen wilson, like regis, like whoever.
That`s so totally NOT techno it`s unreal.
It`s the death of techno.
It`s when techno stops going anywhere, and stops being anything other than pop music.

So no, not putting parameters on it, keeps it what is was, and helps it to evolve and become something else.

Otherwise it stays the same.

Unfortunately, people are reluctant to accept change.
They will find a something they like, and then do it again and again and again.
As william Burroughs said
Human activity is drearily predictable.

I think the statement you were referring to, was me saying that making other types of music, allows you to learn other modes, and other techniques, which you can then re apply in an abstract/techno context/concept.

If you only make techno, listening to techno, thinking about techno, then what is your reference?

You become a washing machine, cleaning old dirty sheets, screwing yourself, and giving birth to cloned washing machine babies.

To absorb and reinterpret all forms of music and then twist this aqquired knowledge into a new, futuristic form, is techno.

Or you can just knock out another banger that entertains for 5 minutes, disapears into anonymity, and then just repeat the process. But don`t call it techno, because that is exactly the same model that drives the pop industry.

It`s called pop for a reason.
It appears, it floats around briefly, and then POP
it`s gone.

[rhythmtech]

so what do you suggest? that every track ever written should be completely alien to the last.. that the genre re-invent itself with every new release? cause if thats the case then techno will die ten times quicker then people claim it is doing right now..

like you said people are predictable, they like something to clutch to. listening to techno they are already on the edge of the "socially acceptable" music scene..

thing is db.. what if people actually like techno? what if the fans of techno listen and dance to it for a reason? are we really to be that arrogant to try and change their taste? to "educate"? i for one dont need educating when it comes to my musical tastes.. i prefer to discover for myself.. and there's plenty of differant styles of techno out there to discover..

to be honest you're sounding like someone who is bored with what techno is at the moment.. thats grand, maybe the current climate isnt for you.. but remember that theres millions more that love every minute of it.. and a lot of us have been loving it for years and years on end..

i've been a huge fan of the cure since i can remember.. also the banshees, sisters, nephilim... all placed in a similiar category.. all doing their perticular thing for years without much serious deviation.. yet each new album is something new.. the same but new... if i want something differant theres a million bands out there to provide it.

same as techno.. if a producer is good at one perticular style, and builds his sound around it without too much deviation, then so what.. theres endless amounts of producers out there who have a differant sound and tomorrow another million will pick up reason and start down the road...

techno isnt dying because of stagnation.. its dying because people are more interested in saying its dying than actually going out and enjoying the music.

[The Overfiend]

same as techno.. if a producer is good at one perticular style, and builds his sound around it without too much deviation, then so what.. theres endless amounts of producers out there who have a differant sound and tomorrow another million will pick up reason and start down the road...

techno isnt dying because of stagnation.. its dying because people are more interested in saying its dying than actually going out and enjoying the music.

MOTHERF*CKING ZZZZZING!
Thank you sir.
Could not have worded it any better myself.

[dirty_bass]

I think your making excuses for a lack of imagination by justifying someone who makes the same thing all the time.
Sure it`s fine, people will do so, but when things move on, THEY will be the people moaning about things aren`t like they used to be, or that things aren`t true to the origins or whatever.

Techno isn`t dying as such, it`s just that people are moving on, at the moment, people have moved on to the minimal/glitch sound. And already the moaners are there "oh minimal isn`t techno, blah blah"

It will move on again.

I`m not bored with techno as it is at all.
The new stuff is great.
I`m bored of the stuff that sounds like all the other records I have in my collection from 1999.
Why buy them again?

And to react in extremes by saying "that every track ever written should be completely alien to the last.. that the genre re-invent itself with every new release?"
C`mon man, your more intelligent than to make a reversal argument like that.

What I`m talking about is regurgitation, and you know exactly what I mean.

It`s not about massive extreme experimentation and change.
But it should at least be about going forwards at least a little bit.
Isn`t that what any decent musician wants to do?

It`s not even about "educating people" or forcing them to change.
I think it`s more about personal artistic development.

there`s just something inherently sad about artists churning out the same thing again and again.
The cure being a good example.

Of course, people will always like what they like. It`s a fair justification for anything you do (I mean the generic you, not YOU)

But then you have no right to slag off pop music, or any other.
Nor can you say that techno is "on the edge of the "socially acceptable" music scene".
If you place it in the same boat as all other music, then it is simply less popular, or less interesting, or less successful, than other music.


"techno isnt dying because of stagnation.. its dying because people are more interested in saying its dying than actually going out and enjoying the music."

If you truly believe this statement. You are mad.
I`m fairly sure this isn`t the reason it`s not as popular as it was in it`s heyday.
People make their own decision, and it seems a large percentage of fans moved on somewhere else.


Aaaaaanyway.

This has all gone into more of an artistic discussion.
Which comes back to musicianship.
Oh yeah
Fat Basslines?

Where are they?

Doing fine in the house and minimal scene.
But I think mainly they ran off and hid themselves on the dubstep scene.

Someone go and get them.

[loopdon]

MOTHERF*CKING ZZZZZING!
Thank you sir.
Could not have worded it any better myself.

Neither could i.

[DannyBlack]

my ma always said, "if you dont like the way something is, then quit your bitching and change it."

wise words.

[dirty_bass]

my ma always said, "if you dont like the way something is, then quit your bitching and change it."

wise words.

Exactly.

I`m not trying to be aggressive, the point I¬m trying to make, is that all the music we love and enjoy would never have come about without musical progression and experimentation.

Look back at acid techno for example.

Secret Hero : Control. Seminal acid london techno.

Now look at the latest Hydraulix.

Completely different, Henry is not making the same music he was in the early acid techno era.
He didn`t stand still, he progressed, found new sounds, new techniques, and put them to use to develop artistically.

And he is influential enough that many many people are trying to copy his sound.
But it is his sound, and I expect it will continue to change, and then people will imitate that sound.

So I think it`s about aspirations. Do you want to create something new, or just photocopy someone else plan?

I think musical progression is a necessity for any serious musician. Otherwise why make anything new at all?



I find it hard to believe I`m even having to argue the point FOR musical progression, in a techno forum.

this is a sad day.

[rhythmtech]

i think your trying to over argue the point.. nobody is saying we shouldnt musically progress..

henry may have his own sound but then so do a lot of producers in the same genre.. doesnt mean that they're drastically differant from henry..

i personally dont think theres a glut of people trying to copy his sound at all.. i think theres a lot of people tryin to make techno that they know and a lot of people know his sound.. doesnt mean they're trying to imitate it, does it?

and to be honest control was hardly the firt acidtechno record to sound like it did.. and theres been labels b4 hydraulix that sound like hydraulix.. same as theres been labels that sound like dirty bass b4 dirtybass was around..

you seem to be forgetting that techno is reletivly young... it DOESNT need to change on such a fast scale.. i feel the opposite to you.. the music industry is too fickle.. always looking for something new.. so y not dig our heels in and keep making whatever we make instead of feeling the neccesity to change.. people will change when they progress.. but if you like something y change it just for the sake of progression? y not progress at your own rate? rock has been around 60-70 years now in some form or another... it hasnt drastically changed - can techno not be its own style without having to always be something else?

[dirty_bass]

But rock has changed.

Look at bands like Sigur Ross
Or Tool.

Sure there`s the crap that hasn`t changed.

But I`m sure you understand the point.

I thought techno was about the future?

Guess I was wrong huh?

[dirty_bass]

Your point about DB records is probably valid. There probably were other labels that sounded the same, but I was trying, at the very least, to mix commercial stuff, with harder stuff, to expose the commercial heads to the other stuff, on one label. I think as a whole the record label remained reasonably diverse though.
And now I`m moving on.
Dirty Bass is dead. I`m never releasing or recording a Dirty Bass track again. The record label will only continue with new artists I think who need a shot at a release. People who do something new.

[SlavikSvensk]

But rock has changed.

Look at bands like Sigur Ross
Or Tool.

Sure there`s the crap that hasn`t changed.

But I`m sure you understand the point.

I thought techno was about the future?

Guess I was wrong huh?

dude, i gotta back you up here.

techno is stale because of its inherent conservatism. YES there are people doing interesting stuff, but the audience of people who care keeps shrinking. many people out there only buy what they expect. that is, they only buy london acid techno or swedish hard techno or detroit techno or mnml or whatever. that's also the same as rock.

but rock is so much BIGGER than techno that it can deal with this situation much better. something that only attracts 1% of rock listeners still attracts a lot of people. something that attracts 1% of techno listeners...well...not so much.

people who listen to techno need to be more adventurous, i think. people who make techno should be more adventurous.

[rhythmtech]

but that whole idea smacks of elitism.

if somebody makes something and it sells and people enjoy it then who are we to put it down?

if i make a tune with one note and one sample and people buy it then nobody really has any right to criticise.. who are you dirtybass to say whats "good".. same as who am i tto say whats good? we're just insignificant dots on the techno map in reality... let people make what they make and woory bout you're own stuff rather than saying techno has to change.. what has to change are the people that are more concerned with change!!!

[loopdon]

Rhythmtech; I really don't want to get into any arguments that may or may not be going on in this thread.

Just one question: What do you mean by ''insignificant dots'' ? How is significance measured ? Significant in marketing terms/number of followers ?

Or more like: We're all part of something bigger?

[eyeswithoutaface]

talk about going round in circles.

The sooner alot of people detach their own personal outlook on the scene and what they want out of the scene from whats ACTUALLY happening in the scene, the better. This is essential, in my opinion of course, in order to gain the full wider picture.

I see and accept both arguements here, i agree that techno drastically needs to move on in alot of areas, but i also do agree that a person has the right to make whatever they like, of course, that's a basic human right, but when there are so many people evidently doing this, then that's where the problem arises. It happened with the big Primate inspired loop thing off the late 90's, schranz, minimal etc etc and eventually it does back to bite people on the ass, and after a while, at some point, you wake up and it's like an epiphany, a frigging realisation that infact, alot of the music that i do love and have spent the past ten years of my life dedicated to, does in fact sound very similiar!

This is usually a turning point, it certainly was for me. It was the day i realised the word techno is probably the most overused, most misunderstood and most widely unappreciated feeling, yes that's right feeling, that i have felt. That's when i started to appreciate the actual ethos of techno and not the practical meaning associated with it i.e just because its on Primate or bangs like a shit house door doesnt make it techno. Just because a record is shelved under the techno section of a record store doesnt make it techno.

I went off alot of artists when i started thinking like this, and in turn discovered a ton of new, interesting, fresh, to me, artists that the term techno was, again to me, practically invented for. Music that can be appreciated at the front of Voodoo at 3am or infront of my tv set at 5pm.

Techno is to each person whatever they want it to be, thats something no one can deny or say is wrong to say basically. But with elements such as sales, promotion, running labels etc getting harder and tighter with everyday, i personally believe everyone has to raise the bar that little higher if they want out of the scene what they expect. If you just keep rolling the same record out month after month, with the same sounds, the same structure, the same patterns etc etc then you will eventually end up in a bigger loop than the records one is putting out

[SlavikSvensk]

but that whole idea smacks of elitism.

if somebody makes something and it sells and people enjoy it then who are we to put it down?

if i make a tune with one note and one sample and people buy it then nobody really has any right to criticise.. who are you dirtybass to say whats "good".. same as who am i tto say whats good? we're just insignificant dots on the techno map in reality... let people make what they make and woory bout you're own stuff rather than saying techno has to change.. what has to change are the people that are more concerned with change!!!

yes it is elitist, but i'm totally shameless about being a techno elitist. dirtybass even more so :)

seriously, though...the problem is, in part, that very little sells well. and what does isn't long-term sustainable. that is, it doesn't keep the style healthy and innovative.

don't you think the innovation is what propels the genre forward? as db said, this is future music. not all of it needs to be 14/9 dubsteb (hehe divide), but good innovation a) trickles down to everyone else and b) gets new people involved. even if the percentage of innovative and adventurous techno increased from 1% to 20%, that would be a huge step.

if all records today sound like all records 3 years ago, why should people buy today's records if they already have 3 years ago's records?

[dirty_bass]

Phuck it, lets just make pop
Somebody get me a half starved chick who can mime.

[audioinjection]

geez, reading all this complaining about techno is really depressing.....of course there's gonna be people complaining but why not just love (or leave) techno the way it is........think about when there wasn't forums to talk about this stuff, techno changed and we accepted it (or left it)

im all for discussion, but i feel the love for techno is lost because of internet drama IMO

[Little_Fella!]

Yowzer...!

What a great thread...

Been away from it 4a bit so I'm glad i caught this one...:)

I reckon this thread should be saved some where & then re-post the whole lot in a couple years time - so we can reflect...

Marvelous...

[rhythmtech]

Rhythmtech; I really don't want to get into any arguments that may or may not be going on in this thread.

Just one question: What do you mean by ''insignificant dots'' ? How is significance measured ? Significant in marketing terms/number of followers ?

Or more like: We're all part of something bigger?


hahaha

i meant we're all just dots that make the scene.. we'll come and go but the music will (hopefully) still be here

[rhythmtech]

and loopdon.. i dont think there is any arguements going on here..

just that i know im right and everyone else is wrong... obviously :briggin: :laughing:

[Little_Fella!]

On topic...

Yeah, yeah... I couldn't agree more - I love bass frequencies...:rulove:

There's nowt like having to deal with a rip-roaring bassline, in the middle of that dancefloor, just when all things are heading in different directions and colliding at the same time...

It actually does something to the core of your soul... :psy:

[dirty_bass]

There`s no argument, it`s just a discussion.
What else are we gonna talk about in here.
It`d be boring if we all bent over and gave each other a reach around.

[...Dave...]

so anyway. where did thay go:whoops:


more phat an funky basslines Pleeeaaaaaaaaaaase

[loopdon]

geez, reading all this complaining about techno is really depressing.....of course there's gonna be people complaining but why not just love (or leave) techno the way it is........think about when there wasn't forums to talk about this stuff, techno changed and we accepted it (or left it)

im all for discussion, but i feel the love for techno is lost because of internet drama IMO

I agree. Might be me but i didn't feel well reading all this.
I am one of those type of people who thinks to much about stuff anyways.

In addition to that, the patronizing tendencies (to me at least) that always start flowing through threads like this leave me bewildered. Some people must honestly think the way they view techno is the only one.

I have, as many others here, listened to what i'd call techno and electronica for about half of my life if not more. While i am open other people's opinions, to tips what artists i should/could check out etc. and change in general i really don't want to be force-educated etc.

I think for myself, thanks.

[rhythmtech]

well said LD

[loopdon]

and loopdon.. i dont think there is any arguements going on here..

just that i know im right and everyone else is wrong... obviously :briggin: :laughing:

haha