RIP Acid Techno?

[Si the Sigh]

After listening to the Live Techno Bollocks CD's (DAVE the Drummer & DDR) I have decided that acid techno is starting to smell a bit funny (IMO).

The emotion, fu*ked up-ness (if thats a word), and general tranced out lushness is missing from all modern releases.

Ok, so it had to move with the times, but it would seem we're heading down the we must make everything harder & faster, or more hard dance route.

Bring back the spaced out sounds!

Acid techno, alive and kicking, or sat in the corner tripping?

Discuss...

[Si the Sigh]

PS: Dig out the Live Techno Bollocks CD's, the 1st Route CD mixed by Lawrie, Routemasters 1 - 10, Cats Eye & Typhoon on Prolekult, and of Drummers Boscaland releases, listen and tell me thats not the sound your really lusting after you crusty acid freaks! :)

I keep reading how techno has headed back to its routes by going minimal to gain popularity again, well acid techno needs to do more drugs ands get messy!

[Si the Sigh]

PPS: Do NOT tell me the old stuff only sounds better because the tunes bring back memorys of good times*

*aimed at Henry! :)

[Si the Sigh]

PPPS: Before I get called a hater, I'd just like to say that I still buy EVERY release from all the SUF Collectives labels, am still 110% supporting the artists, and still do like the sound, etc;

I'm just voicing an opinion, and judging by comments from others I'm not alone in these opinions.

[rhythmtech]

i think your right up to an extent.

that extent being last year. up to jan 05 i think everything was getting a little stale.. since then there has been a serious turnaround. the labels are getting a lot more picky about what they release and bar the odd cabbage i think 2006 was quite a good year for acid..

but i do agree, things need to get more tripped out.. use the 303's as weapons in a track.. not just something that plays the main riff.

[Si the Sigh]

For sure.

Also, general trippyness and atmosphere needs to play a much bigger part again.

[Si the Sigh]

Can I also say, it's not just better use of the 303 thats required. Check out the Drummers live techno bollocks CD. Even the 303-less techno tracks are dark, moody and fu*ked up sounding.

Acid techno's about a feeling, an emotion IMO, and thats gone walkabout...

[Si the Sigh]

I really think someone needs to feed Lawrie some acid and lock him in his studio! :)

[113]

I think you guys have right...

And i don't understand why there aren't any labels with 100% old school acid techno sound.....

But good news are that there is for example guy called PAUL CORTEX and he have plans for releasing good acid stuff !!



Ans Si...what is with your pacman tune?i remember it was really good track...i hope it will be finally released!!!

[Si the Sigh]

I don't understand why there aren't any labels with 100% old school acid techno sound.

Wah Wah was supposed to be the label for that, but it couldn't be further from that original sound IMO.

Not saying theyu are not good releases, but there not THAT style IMO.


Si...what is with your pacman tune?

It needs some work on the lay out. Just not had chance to see Log to sort it out yet. :)

[conor256]

for a bit there si i thought you were going to be the only one posting on this thread :)

barry is right (shit did i just admit that) 2006 was a great year for acid techno........

and as for all the artists who were making the acid techno a few years ago who dont make it so much any more...... well i think thats fair enough...... people should make whatever the fu*k they want...... tbh if you keep making the same style of music for a long period of time (and also prob playing it week in week out) you would prob get a bit tired of the sound and want to try something different....

like you si, i wish there were more frequent acid techno releases...... for a while a few online record shops had an acid techno section..... now i only can think of banging tunes' acid section which gets a new release every other week or so.........

maybe another way of looking at it is - if people who were making acid techno are not making it any longer then go and try to make it yourself and if you try hard enough for long enough and get as much help as you can then i'm sure you're bound to come up with something good eventually...... sort of d.i.y......

[Si the Sigh]

DIY's the plan my man!

[ollie303]

i think the music coming out over the last 12 months has been really good on the whole, certainly on the up from the year before. 303 based acid techno doesnt seem to be going anywhere though. clusters on the other hand has made a amasing turn around, so its not out the question for the more acid based labels to do it.
303's have always gone in and out off fashion in dance music, there's certainly scope for the silver box in future tracks just has to be used in the right way

[fatcollective]

i think the music coming out over the last 12 months has been really good on the whole, certainly on the up from the year before. 303 based acid techno doesnt seem to be going anywhere though. clusters on the other hand has made a amasing turn around, so its not out the question for the more acid based labels to do it.
303's have always gone in and out off fashion in dance music, there's certainly scope for the silver box in future tracks just has to be used in the right way

that sounds about right.

[Si the Sigh]

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.

[APC]

More tunes like:

World War 303

One Last One

Akid Trax 6

Pump Department





OR ELSE

[Aratron]

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.

you need to get out more

[Si the Sigh]

Nah, I'd say further back than that.

I keep reading and hearing people saying techno is going full circle with this minimal thing, which is gaining huge following as we know.

If it's all going full circle, then acid techno wants to be going back to its routes. Getting dare I say it, maybe a bit more trancey again. With the quality of production in this day and age, you could create some seriously fat atmospheric tracks.

[Si the Sigh]

you need to get out more

I'm out every weekend mate. :)

[Aratron]

I'm out every weekend mate. :)


im really liking acid techno at the moment latest suf and powertools and wahwah are great.

[Si the Sigh]

Yea, same here. Like I said, i'm not saying the new releases are shit.

[113]

im really liking acid techno at the moment latest suf and powertools and wahwah are great.


nobody says they are bad...it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...i believe it is possible to create a track that will have it...maby we just have to wait a little more....

[Aratron]

nobody says they are bad...it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...i believe it is possible to create a track that will have it...maby we just have to wait a little more....

if its down to anything i think its because tracks are just written on shite music programs instead of on 909 and 303.

[acidguru]

Well,i think there´s some kind of stagnation atm,don´t wanna take anything away from the latest releases,all good 4 sure,but few who knock me offa my feet.I hope that Skankadelic goes on releasing stuff,imo they represent Acid Techno as it should be,same goes for Mobile Dogwash when it comes to artists.Let´s hope for some really awesome productions in the very near future

[Si the Sigh]

if its down to anything i think its because tracks are just written on shite music programs instead of on 909 and 303.

I don't agree with that. Computers can allow you to be much more creative IMO.

[Si the Sigh]

Well,i think there´s some kind of stagnation atm,don´t wanna take anything away from the latest releases,all good 4 sure,but few who knock me offa my feet.I hope that Skankadelic goes on releasing stuff,imo they represent Acid Techno as it should be,same goes for Mobile Dogwash when it comes to artists.Let´s hope for some really awesome productions in the very near future

See Skankadelic was a real let down for me. Bar the DDR release towards the end of the label, they were all way too samey. It promised that old skool sound, but I felt a bit like it was Geezer after Geezer release during his quite naff tune period.

His productions lately have been quality mind you. The new 4X4 he's done with Julian Lib's shit hot, and so is the latest RAW. So maybe we'll be getting some quality acid from him soon.

Mobile Dogwash IMO pulled off one of the more amazing recent releases. Their remix of Hash Fudge was fu*king awesome. Real head fu*k breakdown, and when the 303 drops...Wooo! :) That was more like it.

[Si the Sigh]

it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...

In it's most simple form, thats what i'm saying.

[Aratron]

See Skankadelic was a real let down for me. Bar the DDR release towards the end of the label, they were all way too samey. It promised that old skool sound, but I felt a bit like it was Geezer after Geezer release during his quite naff tune period.



????

[acidguru]

This is how it should be done: www.simonhazelgrove.com/darklight/file-download.aspx?fileid=2 http://files.filefront.com//;6803238;;/ Left-click both for some Acid Culture

[APC]

His productions lately have been quality mind you. The new 4X4 he's done with Julian Lib's shit hot, and so is the latest RAW. So maybe we'll be getting some quality acid from him soon.




I never really "got" 4x4 stuff. I don't think there's been a single tune on that label that I have even slightly liked, apart from the Funky Town remix. It all seems far too much like a mechanical loop, no real "tune" as such. Same with Pounding Grooves (although I admit I have only heard about 10 records off that label.

[ollie303]

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.


yeah i here ya si, i guess it had alot more trancey elements in which definetly brought alot of the atmosphere to it. sounds stupid but i think the poorer production may have alot to do with the magic of the old stuff, pretty ruff around the edges and less polished.

[kev]

love the turn around cluster and max min have had tthe tunes they have been putting out have propa got me going again

was neva really a fan of maxmin but the last 6 or so have got it going on

[paulcortex]

i agree acid techno is getting a bit stale...the way forward is to find new ways of integrating the 303....and pushing the sound forward...although acid techno is not all about 303's...to me its a hypnotic/trancey/high tech/aggressive/in yer face sound...ive always loved acid music and will always use my tb303 and ABL 2.0 in my tracks...i think its time for the new wave of acid techno (pardon the pun) producers to step up to the controls and have their input....mutuate to survive (to coin a phraze (henrys right!))


by the way...check my stuff here...bump...

www.myspace.com/paulcortex

[Athar]

Acid Techno never die Si because still a lot heads lovin it.
Acid Techno its not only sub genre of techno music, its a massive subculture. Thats why it will be exist in our minds.
But i must agreed, acid techno lost somewhere their old school atmosphere, but there is second side of medal - we are going (i mean producers) somewhere where we never been before. Its a normal evolution. It makes this music still creative, its not boring and its a door for next generations.


i think its time for the new wave of acid techno (pardon the pun) producers to step up to the controls and have their input....mutuate to survive (to coin a phraze (henrys right!))


Couldnt say better than paul here. Thats a way!!!!

[Si the Sigh]

Oh, I agree with the mutate and evolve to survive thing. Please don't get me wrong. But during a time when sales are low, why not turn to how the sound was in its peak? Like everyone keeps banging on about in thye techno forum with the minimal issue.

[lunatrick]

that hads it's time and place......a good place admittedly, but you can't recreate spontaneous events..........we're all getting older - how many young kids in techno will remember and spout on about current tunes which in their minds will be seminal and crucial? Si mutate into the future and produce the sound which you obviously think is missing from the scene, and bring on the new wave!

[dirty_bass]

I see ot like this.
And don`t all you acid heads jump on me, Acid is my roots in temrs of techno.
It got me into techno, it got me into squat parties, and in fact I ended up putting on very large illegal acid techno raves myself in london because of it, as one of the soundsystems in United Systems (ahhh the good old days).
So I don`t hate it.

All good music is born out of passion and a wave of energy and emotion.
The early years of acid techno, all the guys were riding their wave, it was fresh, it was it`s own sound, and they were the kings of it.

Now 10 years down the road, do you really expect them to be able to make the same music with the same passion?
They gotta move on, if they had that creative and original spark in the first place then they will naturally move on and explore.

I think Henry`s new stuff is great, it`s not acid techno, but it`s great, and it`s his thing, and still spawns many imitators.
Same with Julian etc.

However, the acid labels have a legacy and need to stay within that niche in this market, so the acid releases especially on SUF seemed to get more and more derivative, and lacking passion, bar the odd cheeky comedy tune.

In a way, it looks to me, to keep sales up, elements of hard house and hard dance started getting absorbed.
So it was no longer it`s own thing. It wasn`t acid techno, it was a little brother of hard dance.

I think acid techno at it`s best was pretty stripped down music, with or without 303`s it tended to be reasonably minimal, but still very hard.

I don`t think Acid techno is dead, I think the creators have moved on, and find it difficult to inject passion into it when they do do it.
However, money and status probably comes into it too, people need to pay the rent etc.

I think some new bloody is needed.
At the mo, the only fresh talent I see on the labels is made by people who are mimicking their heroes anyway, so it still sounds derivative and hard dancey Maybe again this is a play safe option, I don`t know.

There`s got to be some messed up, twisted and disturbing producers out there making fresh acid techno.
The music used to be so disturbing at times, frenetic without being cheesy or predictable, it was a head**** unto itself without the aid of drugs.
Early route releases were just evil. Mushrooms on daleks etc, there was a definite psychadelic edge too, which seems to have vanished.
There was also a stark emotional beauty sometimes, look at Ice, by Carbine.
Cluster had it`s own, really messed up version of techno, which now seems to have blended in with the harder end of techno in general.
It no longer stands apart.

There must be a talent pool out there.
Dammit, they should be sending their stuff to SUF HQ.

the only person I`ve encountered on my travels who comes close to capturing the old spirit of acid techno, without being a rip off artist, is Paul Cortex.

I know the guy, and you pretty much can`t find anyone more into the spirit of that music than him.
If you see his name on a roster, and you like acid techno I seriously suggest you go see his live Pa.

Acid isn`t dead, it`s resting for a bit, waiting for the next generation of kids to get sicked with the emo fed clubscene, and the tightening laws against fun.

I`m sure their will be a new generation of free partis some time within the next few years to fual it.

[rhythmtech]

@ dirtybass

im sorry but thats toss.

there are plenty of producers new & old doing the acid thing and doing it very well. the "oldschool" producers might not be as inventive as they were at one stage but they still come up with some classics now and again..

just look at route 59, suf 87, suf 84, suf 82 (to name but a few) & tunes like DTD's "hotwire" on infectious clearly show that acid CAN cross over into differant genres and still be outstanding.

to say that theres only 1 (new) producer doing it well is a serious insult to the likes of dogwash, KN, rhythm logistics, AP, myself or anyone else that is doing their thing (im not taking anything away from paul - he does it very well & is definitly up there).

but as with everything else the public vote with their feet and they're still voting acid..

[christian wagner]

I got into acid techno fully about 3/4 years ago, and that was from an old, old stay up forever mix, dunno what it was....

Iv been producing it for about 3 years now, and i base all my tracks upon the old style acid techno with elements of new production from new technology, a natural thing to happen in any style of music.

Now...my gripe is this.....this day in age everyone seems to be banging out tracks, some ****in wicked, and some totally shite.
Its so damm hard to get any where these days, theres ALWAYS someone telling you that your track;

a - needs more compression
b - more bass
c - less bass
d - mopre high end
e - less high end
f - more percussion
g - more variation
h - more girly vocals

the list goes on and ****ing on!
Theres too many people making too many tracks and too many people going on music courses like the one im on and turning anal about the whole music production thing.

I get a track down and if it sounds phat il keep making it, but i wont go and be anal about what should go where, wether to double up a kick at 5.23 mins or wether to make the bass 2db lower

I think this is what stops creativity in any music style.

Also, on another note, you have to remember that back in the day, theres wasnt logic pro or cubase xs blah blah blah...just a basic midi sequencer on a pc (if u were lucky) and hardware, which was hard to program in, (despite what folk say!) nowadays you can bash up a really professional sounding loop in literally minuits - no wonder things have gone wayyy to repetative!!

In short, after goin off on one - To make things sound as if they have progressed more - lets not try and stop creativity with knowledge ;)

[hypothalamus]

i think vogelspeed maybe more what your after i love the acid on these tunes but i dont feel its pushing things forward and i need kicks. SUF i feel is top at the minute as said wahwah and even manxrippers had some nice acid more of the new sound that im loving. choci's chewns and alike have had their place but personally im not sure i want the future acid releases to have that feel, nice now and then to have an old school classics mix but bring on the future sounds quality tracks from start to finish not just 303's but they can be a bonus when used right, dont go over the top...


i dunno my two cents!

[paulcortex]

its good to see that this post is getting plenty of attention...especially as this is the acid forum!

...we are all very passionate about our music and should be all pulling together and trying to nurture and expand the scene...
acid techno certainly aint dead...and, yeah the old artists who influenced us all are probably sick to death of programming that 303 sequence...and with release catalogues like Henry,Guy,Chris et all have, its easy to see why they might be tired of the acid sound...im sure they still have plenty of good solid acid techno in em yet though! (Henry...why dont you release the stuff of the live techno bollocks set...its ****ing amazing!!!! ;) )

...to tell you the truth...i used to dj but got bored of a lot of the releases coming out and decided to concentrate on my producing, i think due to the sheer number of people producing now and the fact that it soooooo much easier to knock a quick track up (no a good one however) because of easier to use programs and the vast amount of vstis and synths about the place...this has lead to a saturation of music available to us all...and not all of it is good!

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :)

[dirty_bass]

@ dirtybass

im sorry but thats toss.

there are plenty of producers new & old doing the acid thing and doing it very well. the "oldschool" producers might not be as inventive as they were at one stage but they still come up with some classics now and again..

just look at route 59, suf 87, suf 84, suf 82 (to name but a few) & tunes like DTD's "hotwire" on infectious clearly show that acid CAN cross over into differant genres and still be outstanding.

to say that theres only 1 (new) producer doing it well is a serious insult to the likes of dogwash, KN, rhythm logistics, AP, myself or anyone else that is doing their thing (im not taking anything away from paul - he does it very well & is definitly up there).

but as with everything else the public vote with their feet and they're still voting acid..

Toss to you, truth to me.

I don`t see anyone making good acid techno.
Just my opinion.

There`s some good techno on some of those labels, but it isn`t acid.

[acidguru]

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers

[Aratron]

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers

nice one mate

[rhythmtech]

Toss to you, truth to me.

I don`t see anyone making good acid techno.
Just my opinion.

There`s some good techno on some of those labels, but it isn`t acid.

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

[Aratron]

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

*puts another log on the fire

[dirty_bass]

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

I musta really got your goat up huh?

I don`t have the same opinions about techno at all.

I love what I love.

this is a forum, and it`s for discussion.

As far as I remember we are all free to have an opinion.

Mine disagrees with your opinion, but there`s no reason to get all stroppy, I mean really, I thought acid techno people were supposed to have a sense of humour and fun? compared to all us miserable techno people.

shouldn`t you be shouting something about "it`s not intelligent, and it`s not from detroit, but it`s ****ing having it" ?

I dunno, I`m off to polish my elitist badge.

[acidguru]

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers Just wanna say that my reply starts after the smiley,the rest of it is from Paul Cortex´post,did some bad editing on this one

[Aratron]

Just wanna say that my reply starts after the smiley,the rest of it is from Paul Cortex´post,did some bad editing on this one

i still got it

[stjohn]

im going to throw in my two sense for what its worth! :mrmyagi:

I was virgin enough to not know what the feck acid techno was, when i was first introduced to dance music, i just went out and bought what i liked. It meant that I ended up with chunky house, Mauro Picotto on a techno tip, Cluster records that wonked the shit out of itself, aswell as loads of other banging shit.

I dint know the name for it, but i knew i liked it... each track had something fresh from the last which made it stand out from all the rest, and i think thats where Dirty Bass's point is coming from.

So much stuff... as much as it is a good tune, that will make the heads bop on a dance floor, is just revisiting old ground! Good ground, but old ground ye know? And punters, be it vinyl buyers or whtever, listen might listen to a record and say... "nice tune, but i have 50 like it at home", its what i say when im buying records.

Im not aiming this at acid techno btw, coz if that old Cluster shit is acid techno, then i love acid techno... this is music all over, but it has a distinct resonance in techno and similar styles, due to the nature of the market

but i know you lads are well able come up with the goods ;) you never know i might come up with some acid stuff one of these days!!

[rhythmtech]

I musta really got your goat up huh?

I don`t have the same opinions about techno at all.

I love what I love.

this is a forum, and it`s for discussion.

As far as I remember we are all free to have an opinion.

Mine disagrees with your opinion, but there`s no reason to get all stroppy, I mean really, I thought acid techno people were supposed to have a sense of humour and fun? compared to all us miserable techno people.

shouldn`t you be shouting something about "it`s not intelligent, and it`s not from detroit, but it`s ****ing having it" ?

I dunno, I`m off to polish my elitist badge.

its not about getting my goat up.. its about you going around disprespecting people that put work into what they love. its perfectly acceptable to have an opinion on something but theres a way to deliver it and IMO your delivery is quite crass and disrespectful (just my opinion of course)

[dan the acid man]

Covering yourself by putting IMO after something is worthless really when you think about it, everything we say or write on here is only our opinion.

We've had this discussion alot on here, i agree with alot of what Steve has said, it's easy to see why the london producers have changed, if they hadn't im sure alot of people here would be saying " why does *insert name here* always produce in the same style.

[rhythmtech]

the IMO was ironic/sarcasm.. whichever fits best :briggin:

and its not about london producers that i disagree.. its saying that 1 perticular producer is the only one making anything good.. clearly this isnt the case, or the labels wouldnt exist.

as the saying goes - opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one... doesnt really mean i wanna go round staring up every ugly arsehole that i see though :laughing:

[dirty_bass]

. clearly this isnt the case, or the labels wouldnt exist.



dangerous turf there

In my opinion Westlife make nothing but purile shite.
But their label still exists, and sells loads.

I`m not in dispute over the wether the records are good or not anyway.

They just aren`t acid techno, not to me.

But hey, what does it matter what I think really.

everyone is gonna play follow the leader regardless.

[rhythmtech]

dangerous turf? why? because labels sell?

"They just aren`t acid techno, not to me." - who decides what acid techno is? weren't you the one who was all for change? all for music moving forward?

maybe acid techno is still acid techno, maybe you've lost sight of what it is today?

i'm not saying its all amazing.. but it never was ALL amazing.. sometimes i think there's too much looking back at the hayday with rose tinted specs..

i was there in 97/98 just the same as you and a lot of people here were.. and believe me from where i was standing there were some right duffer tracks sitting alongside the topclass ones.. not much has changed. in every scene there's always gonna be good and bad.. and funnily enough everyones idea of good and bad are differant.

case in point - that "infect me with your love"

not my kinda tune at all, never played it, never will. but i've seen a dnacefloor lose it proper to that tune.. i've seen people with the same look on their face as i had the first tme i headr a cosmic trigger tune or a&e dept..

so looking at that, to me, the music is still doing the business.. which means that , harping back to the "its not intelligent.." ethos, the arguement here is futile for 2 reasons

1. im stoned

&

2. i've totally lost my train of thought :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[dirty_bass]

I think I was on that train, but I was hiding in the toilet, cos I didn`t have a ticket.
But someone with diaohrea wanted in, and just as I left, the ticket inspector got me, and chucked me of at Woking.
Which is a hideous place to be at this time of thought.

[conor256]

*news bulletin just come in.........


acid techno is alive and kicking ...... its hiding out in the tora bora mountains with osama bin laden!! rave in a cave!!! ;)

[Little_Fella!]

Went with Paul Cortex to a club in Reading, where he was playin, called Plug n Play...

Started off with an hour of hard dance, then it was straight into acid techno, all the way...:)

Looked at each other sayin, 'recognise this tune- recognise that tune..'.. People jumpin around all over, all quite young so were all quite fresh with it...

The girl who's night it was loves acid techno with a driving passion n said it was the only reason she was putting these nights on, so that she can hear it in it's right environment..

Good stuff.... n not a jaded palett in the place:exclaim:

[Trip Head]

[QUOTE=stjohn;507630]So much stuff... as much as it is a good tune, that will make the heads bop on a dance floor, is just revisiting old ground! Good ground, but old ground ye know? And punters, be it vinyl buyers or whtever, listen might listen to a record and say... "nice tune, but i have 50 like it at home", its what i say when im buying records.QUOTE]

Totally agree with that

[paulcortex]

i guess it depends where your coming from...

...if your the record buying "punter" then you are generally expecting fresh, good quality tunes, that push the boundaries.

...the record buying "punter" then will either remain a record buying
audiophile or have aspirations to become a dj or a producer...

...if your the producer (and i think theres 2 types)...

1) The "career" producer...he follows the current trends and
genres closely and writes music from the heart but with a
consumer friendly sound...hoping to sell his music and
earn a living from it...he supplies the record buying "punter"
and the dj's.

2) The "artist" producer...he ignores the latest trends and genres
and spends his hours in the studio writing music he enjoys
listening to aswell as playing...developing his sound...usually
being skint...and eating fishfingers from netto!

...The big question is...who will continue to produce for the longest
and who will get the most pleasure from his art???

...im sort of in a dilema...because i love writing my music and developing my sound...but in the "real" world where money is everything and rent has to be payed...its tough....i want to play as many gigs as possible and travel the world doing it if possible...but in reality, you aint gonna get a gig unless you release some vinyl...which is where the problem comes in....do i write a few tracks that i know will sell....but wont be true to what i enjoy writing,sort of selling out....or do i continue doing what i do and hope that what im doing catches on and starts to sell???

[dirty_bass]

..do i write a few tracks that i know will sell....but wont be true to what i enjoy writing,sort of selling out....or do i continue doing what i do and hope that what im doing catches on and starts to sell???

Nothing is gauranteed to sell these days, so don`t bother trying to sell out, and besides from what I hear of you stuff, it`s perfectly marketable party music.

Stop being a prat, send out some demos, or release it yourself.
And this is the last time I`m gonna say that.

[fatcollective]

yeah man, get it out there, send it out, start a label, do what ever, let people hear and play your music.....your music fvckin rocks man!!

[Little_Fella!]

In the words of the famous Phones 4U advert....

"Lets hit the road Billy Boy..."

"YEAH... YEAH!!" lol :cheese:

[ollie303]

quite suprised you havnt got anything out all ready to be honest paul, i heard stuff by you a couple of years ago worthy of being pressed.
get some demo's out, not many people make acid music like that id say your be on to a winner.

[paulcortex]

Stop being a prat, send out some demos, or release it yourself.
And this is the last time I`m gonna say that.


lol.....point taken.....cash flow problem at the moment though lol
hopefully next month should be getting some dollar :)


yeah man, get it out there, send it out, start a label, do what ever, let people hear and play your music.....your music fvckin rocks man!!

...cheers, much appreciated :)




quite suprised you havnt got anything out all ready to be honest paul, i heard stuff by you a couple of years ago worthy of being pressed.
get some demo's out, not many people make acid music like that id say your be on to a winner.

...thanks ollie...guess im never fully satisfied with my stuff lol
just mastering some of the tracks from my live set at the minute..so will do something with these tracks ;)


...well it looks like ive got my arse kicked into gear lol

...just confirmed with gizelle that were gonna do some trax together very soon...so looks like things are gonna move very quickly now lol

thanks to you all once again :)

[paulcortex]

...as an extra thought...if u know anyone who wants any remix work doing.....giz a shout ;)

[Barnz]

After listening to the Live Techno Bollocks CD's (DAVE the Drummer & DDR) I have decided that acid techno is starting to smell a bit funny (IMO).

The emotion, fu*ked up-ness (if thats a word), and general tranced out lushness is missing from all modern releases.

Ok, so it had to move with the times, but it would seem we're heading down the we must make everything harder & faster, or more hard dance route.

Bring back the spaced out sounds!

Acid techno, alive and kicking, or sat in the corner tripping?

Discuss...

I think the same thing!

Why do people have to get stupid and mess it all up?

I listen to some of the older vinyl and they sound wicked, but I cannot get them anymore. Then I listen to the newer records and they sound more rubbish.

[tocsin]

Oh, I agree with the mutate and evolve to survive thing. Please don't get me wrong. But during a time when sales are low, why not turn to how the sound was in its peak? Like everyone keeps banging on about in thye techno forum with the minimal issue.

Maybe I'm different in opinion than most, but unless you are absolutely fine with fading into obscurity while you do something so different in an effort to do something new, I just don't understand why artists don't do exactly what you describe above, while varying on it slightly, unless they have lost the plot. I'd love to hear some of that 96 tranced out hard acid sound come back again and it has absolutely nothing to do with any nostalgia or memories from the time. Rather, it was just a sound that grabbed me more than most others I've heard.

[Si the Sigh]

Maybe I'm different in opinion than most, but unless you are absolutely fine with fading into obscurity while you do something so different in an effort to do something new, I just don't understand why artists don't do exactly what you describe above, while varying on it slightly, unless they have lost the plot. I'd love to hear some of that 96 tranced out hard acid sound come back again and it has absolutely nothing to do with any nostalgia or memories from the time. Rather, it was just a sound that grabbed me more than most others I've heard.


Thank you! Some one else gets where I'm coming from. :)

Also, whats happened to the labels within the SUF Collectives output? They all used to supply a certain sound, ie; acid trance & acid techno (SUF) techno (Cluster for example), and tech house (Yolk for example).

The labels were started to put out a certain type of sound.

Now you've got the same sounds coming out on all the labels, and new producers supplying nothing new, too many clone sounds. The labels are loosing their identity, and IMO the sound of London acid techno is getting lost.

It's time to go back to the roots and save the sound.

If techno going minimal is it's restart of it gaining popularity, then acid techno needs to do the same.

Acid techno needs to get back to basics.

"Back to the basic element...back"

Damn, I need to get into the studio soon...

Maybe I'd stop moaning then! :)

[Si the Sigh]

Now you've got the same sounds coming out on all the labels, and new producers supplying nothing new, too many clone sounds. The labels are loosing their identity, and IMO the sound of London acid techno is getting lost.

Thats not a diss towards the new producers on the scene by the way, but I don't hear anything fresh coming from them.

[rhythmtech]

Thats not a diss towards the new producers on the scene by the way, but I don't hear anything fresh coming from them.

to be honest si i think thats mostly to do with the collective having an idea what sound they want themselves.

if you look at new producers when they release on labels not involved with the collective its a differant story. ie android.. his other stuff is totally differant from his powertools/cluster stuff.

from my own side of things, damaged trax is nothing like the collective stuff i hope, i dont mean that as a diss to suf but i want to carve my own sound. but for the stuff i've done for suf i needed to supply them with a perticular style. if i'm asked for a stayupforever tune then theres no real point in giving them funky techno.

but i do see your point on labels like yolk. i think yolk, although still releasing some great tracks, has lost its vision a little BUT on the other hand its chris's label so possibly chris's vision for the label has changed?

[Si the Sigh]

Fair play for wanting to carve your own sound man, thats great, and I really look forward to hearing some of your new stuff. :)


Anyway, back to the crack...

What bothers me as well is bar iDJ magazine who I wrote a letter to ages ago asking them to start sorting out their reviews, and adding more London based acid & techno (for which I got star letter and a free mixer! :) ) is if you look in magazines at the reviews, you won't find them in the techno section anymore.

It's all classed as hard dance.

Pounding Grooves #40 is reviewed alongside the latest tosh from BK, Lisa Pin Up and DJ Battyhouse 5000 in this weeks DJ Mag. Previously, the latest Wah Wah and Hydraulix were also tucked away in the trance reviews section.

Pounding Grooves for fu*ks sake?! How the hell is that hard dance? It's techno through and through.

Acid techno is loosing it's identity, and the hard dance scene is slowly dying out as well.

Go to a free party, most acid techno played is older tracks. Doesn't that tell you something?

Acid needs to get back to it's roots, get simple, get dirty, and get back on track and shake offf the hard dance tag.

[AcidTrash]

Go to a free party, most acid techno played is older tracks. Doesn't that tell you something?


That DJ's are freeloading hippies who never buy any records?

That DJ's are too attached to old media and only the original acid cartels can afford to put stuff on vinyl and it's not even slightly comparable with the old skool quality?

That the scene is mired in sentimentality and hasn't grown up?

That munters can't tell the difference over crap soundsystems?

That there's bugger all innovation since "production quality" took priority ensuring everything produced sounds the same?

That DJ's have grown up and no longer have the time to work in new material because of increasing responsibility?

That all the new stuff, in its ambition to break from the herd, has editied out all the best parts just because its old?

Because the acid scene is a cloying claustrophobic bubble seemingly immune to change?

Because DJ's are the only ones remember the old stuff as most of the crowd has moved on to be replaced by children?

Because Acid DJ's are too snobby to play anything classed as hard dance?

Because free parties are full of hippies and they suck?

[rhythmtech]

totally..

acid trance with techno elements.

not just beats with one rising 303..

tracks to go off on tangents.. for instance: cosmic trigger - firefight

[Si the Sigh]

cosmic trigger - firefight

Top tune. :)

Always loved that and Urban & Free.

[APC]

Because free parties are full of hippies and they suck?



Only because you are scared because you might get roughed up by someone and you can't go crying to a bouncer.

Plus, I can think of plenty of free party sound systems that have infinately better equipment than club gear. The only thing that free party systems don't have dangling fluro spikey balls hanging from the ceiling. And those "flames" made out of silk attached to a fan with red light shone at it. And little stalls selling PEP pills. And £4 for a 275ml bottle of your favorite lager because you can't take yer own in. And cloakrooms that make more money than you in one evening than you do in a month. And lovely club propriators sat on leather sofas counting all their cash while laughing at the herds of plebs squeezed up so close that there is no room to dance. And £10+ to get in to see the latest Gateshitter dj. And finishing at 4am. And getting felt up by meatheads at the front door, and paying for that privilege. And being watched constantly to make sure you're not taking drugs unless they were bought from club approved dealers. And shit, soulless surroundings.

[Si the Sigh]

:)

[force]

Only because you are scared because you might get roughed up by someone and you can't go crying to a bouncer.

Plus, I can think of plenty of free party sound systems that have infinately better equipment than club gear. The only thing that free party systems don't have dangling fluro spikey balls hanging from the ceiling. And those "flames" made out of silk attached to a fan with red light shone at it. And little stalls selling PEP pills. And £4 for a 275ml bottle of your favorite lager because you can't take yer own in. And cloakrooms that make more money than you in one evening than you do in a month. And lovely club propriators sat on leather sofas counting all their cash while laughing at the herds of plebs squeezed up so close that there is no room to dance. And £10+ to get in to see the latest Gateshitter dj. And finishing at 4am. And getting felt up by meatheads at the front door, and paying for that privilege. And being watched constantly to make sure you're not taking drugs unless they were bought from club approved dealers. And shit, soulless surroundings.

ignore him!!!

Check out some of his other posts and you'll start to get the picture:;

[AcidTrash]

Only because you are scared because you might get roughed up by someone and you can't go crying to a bouncer.

Plus, I can think of plenty of free party sound systems that have infinately better equipment than club gear. The only thing that free party systems don't have dangling fluro spikey balls hanging from the ceiling. And those "flames" made out of silk attached to a fan with red light shone at it. And little stalls selling PEP pills. And £4 for a 275ml bottle of your favorite lager because you can't take yer own in. And cloakrooms that make more money than you in one evening than you do in a month. And lovely club propriators sat on leather sofas counting all their cash while laughing at the herds of plebs squeezed up so close that there is no room to dance. And £10+ to get in to see the latest Gateshitter dj. And finishing at 4am. And getting felt up by meatheads at the front door, and paying for that privilege. And being watched constantly to make sure you're not taking drugs unless they were bought from club approved dealers. And shit, soulless surroundings.


Move up north if your clubs are that bad..

[DannyBlack]

Acid Techno aint dead. FACT.

[tocsin]

Damn, I need to get into the studio soon...
Maybe I'd stop moaning then! :)

Word. What do you use for production now? Feel like doing a net collab? I'd love to work on some 96 style acid and tweak it. :)

[Si the Sigh]

At the moment, my head! :)

My PC's at my mates getting sorted out after a few problems. Well, it's been there for about 3 - 4 months. Really need to ring him later...

Once I'm back up and running though I wanna get straight back on it, get these tracks out of my head!

[parsley909]

ignore him!!!

Check out some of his other posts and you'll start to get the picture:;





what are you on about!






he is talking sense


goto say acidtrash is talking sh*t dont see many hippys at our partys and sh#t rig



dont think so there are plenty of free party rigs out there with better than any club!



muntbar comes to mind a propper underground linkup of sound that would sh8t on any club sound

[force]

what are you on about!






he is talking sense


goto say acidtrash is talking sh*t dont see many hippys at our partys and sh#t rig



dont think so there are plenty of free party rigs out there with better than any club!



muntbar comes to mind a propper underground linkup of sound that would sh8t on any club sound

actually, i havn't a clue what you're on about, didn't really understand any of that:whoops:

[fils_here]

i think the music coming out over the last 12 months has been really good on the whole, certainly on the up from the year before. 303 based acid techno doesnt seem to be going anywhere though. clusters on the other hand has made a amasing turn around, so its not out the question for the more acid based labels to do it.
303's have always gone in and out off fashion in dance music, there's certainly scope for the silver box in future tracks just has to be used in the right way

got to agree with you there about the cluster label, the latest ones from ant, ap & zoid, taylor & gold, icepack & kn have all been quality, also it's good to get new artists on the releases too, also yolk has had some quality shit out too recently.

[Adey]

still sounds funkin' great to me and me mates. every weekend its about the acid, man. av it
http://bieniosek.com/gallery/albums/album36/ravers.jpg

[Little_Fella!]

I just wanted to pick up on Si The Sigh's point regarding identity and the hard dance scene....

I came from a Hard House/Hard Trance background then found Acid Techno properly once I moved to London..

At first I thought, "What a great combination the two would make..". This was naive as became clear when it happened...

Now, I remember when Dave The Drummer did a remix of Energy Flash on Nkleuz B-side which I duly bought... at the time I was only buying nothing but Acid & Techno so the A-side BK thing did nothing for me but I was so pleased because the B-side held it's own - it was Dave The Drummer making his style of Techno cohesive to the scene that he and the S.U.F. collective had created...

Fine and dandy... But uh oh... those producers and D.J.'s had found something that made all the difference when it came to needing to play something that didn't have an off beat bassline synonymous to Hard House...

[Little_Fella!]

This added a new dimension to there sets... Gave there prowess' a much needed boosting.. The likes of Lisa Pin-Up, pretty thing that she is, jumpin up n down raisin' the crowd a bit more, improving the mood as her set entered it's last hour....

What was she playing? Tunes with the familiar Acid techno bassline that was used in the late eighties Chicago/Detroit acid sound and utilised to good effect by S.U.F. n friends, as we know...

Basically, in my eyes, they stole this ethos from the Acid techno scene and used it to boost there own... Teaming up with the larger Hard dance scene will have seemed financially attractive at the time but I think it watered down the strength and purpose and meaning that S.U.F. represented....

The Hard Dance scene just took and gave nothing back, which makes my blood boil...:protest: :protest: