this is a new low

[rhythmtech]

:whoops:

http://www.kinetec.co.uk/view.php?TitleId=16572

schranz with mama-mia (abba) samples.. now im not gonna get into a schranz debate but this is dreadful.

[The Overfiend]

Tell you what, dude putting them out.
Is stacking cheddar!

[rhythmtech]

Tell you what, dude putting them out.
Is stacking cheddar!

its like some sort of damaged obsession... :mrmyagi:

[loopdon]

I reckon it's all about the money. Don't know if i'd do it or not. Possibly would.

[The Overfiend]

its like some sort of damaged obsession... :mrmyagi:

Ba dum chizzzz
pun totally intended

[eyeswithoutaface]

haha. Pathetic

[Si the Sigh]

OMG!!1 Thats wicked! Is it available to buy now? Banging, off the hook, etc.

[...Dave...]

hahahahaha:laughing:


no worse than any of the others though really

[ds2]

:whoops:

http://www.kinetec.co.uk/view.php?TitleId=16572

schranz with mama-mia (abba) samples.. now im not gonna get into a schranz debate but this is dreadful.

what a complete waste of vinyl, i thought 12 year olds only bought mp3s these days?

but what's worse is seeing "techno" shops actually stocking guff like this.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i stopped listening to this type of thing the momemt i heard that 'give me hope until de morning comes' track. this is bloody awful isnt it. i mean it must've taken AGES to make this. hahaha:laughing:

[Numeric]

this is absolute gash, no suprise though...

[jon connor]

the only stuff i like bootleged is the bootek stuff there are sum gems on there i personaly cain the killers 1 , anyway just dont like sc hranz bootlegs they crap, at least with somthing like a bootek they are well put together a nd good clean production....

by the way this terrible.......hahahahahah

[djfilthmonger]

god no! what a horrible idea, mamma mia!?!?

[DannyBlack]

dear god. no wonder people hate the genre if this is the tripe that is being produced at the moment.

[113]

i don't understand why people are buying something like that :/

i suppose they buy alot as stuff from this label is out all the time

[BRADLEE]

the only stuff i like bootleged is the bootek stuff there are sum gems on there i personaly cain the killers 1 , anyway just dont like sc hranz bootlegs they crap, at least with somthing like a bootek they are well put together a nd good clean production....

by the way this terrible.......hahahahahah


I'm on the same page as you amigo. Can't say that I like all of them, but those are the only ones I consider acceptable either.

But yeah, this shit is awful. Reminds me of happy hardcore and schranz...:upset:

[Honeey]

Oh it's so innovative........and ground breaking........NOT :laughing:

People actually pay money for that? :scratch:

Oh man and it's on vinyl too :wot:

[dirty_bass]

There`s some double standards in here.
I mean, this`ll probably sell loads, and the feet will be moving on the dancefloor.
So what`s the problem?

[djfilthmonger]

i think the problem is that it is giving schranz a bad name there some good choons out there , fair enough i dont listen much anymore but i still like a bit of it, but these bootlegs wtf?

[The Overfiend]

There`s some double standards in here.
I mean, this`ll probably sell loads, and the feet will be moving on the dancefloor.
So what`s the problem?

Where's Steve and what have you done with him.

[dirty_bass]

Where's Steve and what have you done with him.

I guess you don`t understand saracsm.

It is the lowest form of wit you know.

There`s always discussions in this place about techno, and how some music is ok, and others is a sell out, and then people justify shit by citing record sales or the amount of people dancing or whatever.

So I say, yeah, ok, but then you gotta suck up shit like this record, cos it`s just as valid as any other crap if you justify things by sales and moving feet.

So what the hell, more records like this please.

why not?

[rhythmtech]

I guess you don`t understand saracsm.

It is the lowest form of wit you know.

There`s always discussions in this place about techno, and how some music is ok, and others is a sell out, and then people justify shit by citing record sales or the amount of people dancing or whatever.

So I say, yeah, ok, but then you gotta suck up shit like this record, cos it`s just as valid as any other crap if you justify things by sales and moving feet.

So what the hell, more records like this please.

why not?

my point was nothing to do with sales on this thread.. and all to do with how shite i think the actual record is as a piece of music.

[The Overfiend]

I guess you don`t understand saracsm.

It is the lowest form of wit you know.

There`s always discussions in this place about techno, and how some music is ok, and others is a sell out, and then people justify shit by citing record sales or the amount of people dancing or whatever.

So I say, yeah, ok, but then you gotta suck up shit like this record, cos it`s just as valid as any other crap if you justify things by sales and moving feet.

So what the hell, more records like this please.

why not?

Wow, I guess I don't I must be like a mental midget or something to your Socrates.
I'll digress now with the rest of my monkey friends.
(insert Tarzan call here)

[BRADLEE]

I guess you don`t understand saracsm.

It is the lowest form of wit you know.

There`s always discussions in this place about techno, and how some music is ok, and others is a sell out, and then people justify shit by citing record sales or the amount of people dancing or whatever.

So I say, yeah, ok, but then you gotta suck up shit like this record, cos it`s just as valid as any other crap if you justify things by sales and moving feet.

So what the hell, more records like this please.

why not?


I think what Tony meant is that the comment wasn't something you'd normally say homie. That's why he was asking if you got kidknapped Steve. At least that's how I read into things.

[dirty_bass]

I think what Tony meant is that the comment wasn't something you'd normally say homie. That's why he was asking if you got kidknapped Steve. At least that's how I read into things.

I know man.

And hence the "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit"
comment.

I was having jollies.

this place seems to need another humour injection.

So this is a bad record?

But it will probably rock the floor, and shift loads of units.
I thought the general attitude in this place had become, if it rocks the floor it`s ok?

Or is there a set level of tolerable predictability and cheesiness, the point at which it is exceeded, then it becomes a bad techno record?

Is there a scale or a meter that we can use to rate stuff with.

Is there a points system?

Like, Boney M gets say 10 points of cheesiness
But I dunno, some sample from Terminator only gets 2?

I mean, to my uneducated ears, this is just schranze.

but apparently, it`s bad schranze.

I`m having difficulty understanding where that level is any more.

Surely anything that works on the floor is ok now isn`t it?

I`m not trying to hate on schranze. I don`t hate it, I just don`t listen to it.

[rhythmtech]

I know man.


But it will probably rock the floor, and shift loads of units.
I thought the general attitude in this place had become, if it rocks the floor it`s ok?

.

ok, it probably would rock the floor, if the floor was covered in a bunch of monged up idiots with zero taste in quality music. but that isnt what i would consider rocking a dancefloor..

i dont listen to schranz either but i can tell the differance between the good and the bad stuff.

good schranz - scott kemix, calvers heavier stuff, amok etc

bad schranz - anything that uses mounds of distortion for the wrong reasons (ie: to cover bad production) and ANYTHING that uses an abba sample :laughing: - which covers about 99% of stuff on this god forsaken "re-works" label.

i know that people on here have hugely differant opinions on what they consider good/bad techno but its plain to see everyone is united in their hatred of this crap.. its not the cheese factor at all (theres plenty of really good techno thats cheesey as hell).. its the overall package.. it just screams horrible horrible horrible!!!!!!!!!

[rhythmtech]

we all know that in certain situations you could fart into a mic and people will still dance but i hope in this day and age most punters go to techno nights because they know and love the music?

but i know for a fact that if i (or anyone else for that matter) dropped that tune, in 99% of clubs i'd get seriously heckled and probably pulled of the dex.. and id deserve it!:laughing:

[SlavikSvensk]

Like, Boney M gets say 10 points of cheesiness


There lived a certain man in Russia long ago
He was big and strong, in his eyes a flaming glow
Most people looked at him with terror and with fear
But to Moscow chicks he was such a lovely dear
He could preach the bible like a preacher
Full of ecstacy and fire
But he also was the kind of teacher
Women would desire

RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that really was gone
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on

He ruled the Russian land and never mind the czar
But the kasachok he danced really wunderbar
In all affairs of state he was the man to please
But he was real great when he had a girl to squeeze
For the queen he was no wheeler dealer
Though she'd heard the things he'd done
She believed he was a holy healer
Who would heal her son

There lived a certain man in Russia long ago
He was big and strong, in his eyes a flaming glow
Most people looked at him with terror and with fear
But to Moscow chicks he was such a lovely dear
He could preach the bible like a preacher
Full of ecstacy and fire
But he also was the kind of teacher
Women would desire

RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that really was gone
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on

He ruled the Russian land and never mind the czar
But the kasachok he danced really wunderbar
In all affairs of state he was the man to please
But he was real great when he had a girl to squeeze
For the queen he was no wheeler dealer
Though she'd heard the things he'd done
She believed he was a holy healer
Who would heal her son

[SlavikSvensk]

besides, steve's right...life's too short to spend it hating schranz. aren't there more important things for us to spend time and effort hating?

like club trance?

:oicamereyou:

[rhythmtech]

its not about hating schranz at all.. its about winding rorystjohn up cause he's a secret schranz fanatic :cool:

[eyeswithoutaface]

i think you guys are missing steve's point here. It wasnt aimed at anyone in particular, more at the general attitude this board, in his and many others opinions, deems to employ. He was simply pointing at the fact that usually on here people are happier to have the big reach around and use such classic, and usually very uneducated/naive, lines such as "but it's banging", "it sells well" and the more favourable "it'l have the dancefloors rocking anyway!". The latter being my fave, because i can assure you, i know of not one credible dancefloor that would indeed be rocking whilst that was playing.

Steve's initial post was so sarcastic it was even more classic Steve than his regular posts. I agree, but i also have to say i think it's quite cool to see a few more people finally giving this rubbish the trashing it genuinely does deserve. I mean from any viewpoint at all you might want to take on it, there is not one positive thing about records like this at all. If anyone can point out a genuine positive element about this record, il give them 1000 british pounds, or around 800 euros

[SlavikSvensk]

its not about hating schranz at all.. its about winding rorystjohn up cause he's a secret schranz fanatic :cool:


think you misunderstood me, mate...was trying to be ironic :)

[SlavikSvensk]

lines such as "but it's banging", "it sells well" and the more favourable "it'l have the dancefloors rocking anyway!".

you're just jealous because your records aren't 'avin' it laage :angel:

[dirty_bass]

So now your looking down on people who dance to this?
Again, where is the bar?

I`m sure this will rock some big places to pieces.


I used to feel the same about other techno.

3rd rate Hydraulix rip offs.
Predictable clubby techno with generic rap samples inserted.
Oompah schranze
All sorts.

My opinions about high production values etc were dumbed down for being too elitist, and similarly my views on moving forwards, doing your own thing, not following your leaders, musically.


But I had an epiphany recently (I think)

What the hell does it matter any more?

To someone, the latest SUF for example, might be the best piece of music ever, to others, dull, predicable, and turgid.
No one is right.
But setting a line is hypochritical, pointless, and a waste of time.

I`m guilty of it, as are most of us.

But what is the point?

Just get on with it, do what you have to do to make the floor move, or to blow some minds, or lift people up, or whatever.
Techno was something that was undefineable in terms of it`s style and sound. Very hard to pin down.

And now it becomes increasingly boxed in, with sub genres and people fearing to step out of their boxes.

Music is a beautiful chamelion, and techno will move into new areas. Some people won`t accept it and some will. Some people like to stay where they are happy already, and some like the adventure of the new.

All that is important to me now, is to keep an open mind, and push myself musically as far as I can go.
For myself.
And no one else.

It`s the best fight there is.

I no longer see the point of concern with what is crap or not, what is trendy or not.

Maybe we can all try to discuss parties, the music, DJ`s, Producers, constructively, and stop getting so damn edgy and shitty all the time.
Why even bother starting a thread about something you hate?
These are discussions about an artform, nothing more.
Opinions rendered as text on a screen.

It`s just a damn forum, don`t take it too seriously.

I`m gonna make an effort to change my input in this place (not that I input very much any more), but I see now that none of it really matters but how you make use of the music to better your life.


God bless sleep deprivation for my re-awakening this weekend.

[rhythmtech]

i'll be the first to say live and let live.. theres good music in every genre.. but im sure even the hardest schranz fan would find this one a little odd?

[loopdon]

Now i really must have a listen after all. Is it still Boris S. behind all of this? :)

[loopdon]

I don't think this any worse than the ususal stuff along this line. There is some energy in this still of music and this even has some rather ''nifty'' edits compared to other stuff in this realm. The sheer speed has some effect on the perception of energy i am sure.

Now if only the vocal had been cut up/effected in a more freaky way, maybe made it wouldn't sound quite as bland. It sounds like err... now we have this beat ...what kinda hideous sample could we drop into it??

I say live and let live but i wonder how formulaistic people esp. from this subgenre produce. It's just about always the same galopping kickdrums:

X-Xx ad infinitum.

[dan the acid man]

If anyone can point out a genuine positive element about this record, il give them 1000 british pounds, or around 800 euros

erm, it's bangin!!!!!:cheese: :laughing: :ohdear:

[The Overfiend]

If anyone can point out a genuine positive element about this record, il give them 1000 british pounds, or around 800 euros

You don't have it to spare Scott.

[eyeswithoutaface]

haha, oh believe me, right now, i do :)

[SlavikSvensk]

haha, oh believe me, right now, i do :)

well pay up, scotty...i already said something good about it...it's not club trance!

i'll expect the cheque in the mail

(notice british spelling of check)

[RDR]

ok, it probably would rock the floor, if the floor was covered in a bunch of monged up idiots with zero taste in quality music.

Got it in one.

[RDR]

haha, oh believe me, right now, i do :)

Safe...

Lend us some money then scott i have a schranz remix of the east enders theme that's just gonna blow UP!


Predictable clubby techno with generic rap samples inserted

Having a did there at who??? /SARCASM

..... :laughing:

[djfilthmonger]

this schranz tune is just a bad tune , yes some people might like it , even if u really like schranz which i did at one stage i think is a load of poo of a record, nothin compared with kemix,viper xxl,amok,boris s ,waldhaus and weintechnik,etc

[Miromiric]

this sounds just like any other schranz whatever "techno" record.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

So now your looking down on people who dance to this?
Again, where is the bar?

I`m sure this will rock some big places to pieces.


I used to feel the same about other techno.

3rd rate Hydraulix rip offs.
Predictable clubby techno with generic rap samples inserted.
Oompah schranze
All sorts.

My opinions about high production values etc were dumbed down for being too elitist, and similarly my views on moving forwards, doing your own thing, not following your leaders, musically.


But I had an epiphany recently (I think)

What the hell does it matter any more?

To someone, the latest SUF for example, might be the best piece of music ever, to others, dull, predicable, and turgid.
No one is right.
But setting a line is hypochritical, pointless, and a waste of time.

I`m guilty of it, as are most of us.

But what is the point?

Just get on with it, do what you have to do to make the floor move, or to blow some minds, or lift people up, or whatever.
Techno was something that was undefineable in terms of it`s style and sound. Very hard to pin down.

And now it becomes increasingly boxed in, with sub genres and people fearing to step out of their boxes.

Music is a beautiful chamelion, and techno will move into new areas. Some people won`t accept it and some will. Some people like to stay where they are happy already, and some like the adventure of the new.

All that is important to me now, is to keep an open mind, and push myself musically as far as I can go.
For myself.
And no one else.

It`s the best fight there is.

I no longer see the point of concern with what is crap or not, what is trendy or not.

Maybe we can all try to discuss parties, the music, DJ`s, Producers, constructively, and stop getting so damn edgy and shitty all the time.
Why even bother starting a thread about something you hate?
These are discussions about an artform, nothing more.
Opinions rendered as text on a screen.

It`s just a damn forum, don`t take it too seriously.

I`m gonna make an effort to change my input in this place (not that I input very much any more), but I see now that none of it really matters but how you make use of the music to better your life.


God bless sleep deprivation for my re-awakening this weekend.

that is ,quite possibly, the best post i have ever read on this board..

[DORYL_ROY]

Well I think the saying goes if u haven’t got anything good to say then don’t say anything at all. From what I gather the reasons most of you don’t like this record is because (not in any particular order and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong):

* Poor Production
* The fact it is shranz
* There’s an abba sample in it
* It lacks any real creative insight
* Despite all of these reasons it probably will still do all right when it comes to sales.

IMO I don’t think the person who made this record was taking it serious for a second so why should anyone else. The fact that people feel the need to point out the obvious is stupid. I had one reaction to this record and that reaction was nothing. The way I see it is that he techno scene is a far cry away from how things used to be when it was started with open minded people looking and striving for something different and trying to get away from the commercial music scene and all it entails. The fact that people are now judging and scrutinising almost everything just makes the scene what it was trying to get away from in the first place.
To me its about the freedom to do what ever you ****ing want so hands up to the person who made this. The person may have made this just for financial gain but that’s a whole different story and not what im trying to get across in this instance.
Another thing is is that it seems to me everyone is always looking for something that’s fresh and new. This record of course is neither of those things but how many of you would have the balls to put an abba sample into your tune and just say **** it. If this scene is to keep progressing there needs to be more people with the fuk it attitude but why would anyone want to take a chance when all that seems to happen is people getting chopped down when they do. Obviously putting an abba sample in a track isn’t going to change shit but hopefully you will be able to see what I am trying to say.

[TechMouse]

think you misunderstood me, mate...was trying to be ironic :)
We need some new smilies... one for "irony", one for "sarcasm", one for "jizz"...

[BloodStar]

I am curious why schranz threads always have most replies. Yep, it can be horrible tune, for sure,but maybe it can rock some floors...who knows.

[DORYL_ROY]

I am curious why schranz threads always have most replies. Yep, it can be horrible tune, for sure,but maybe it can rock some floors...who knows.

Maybe deep down everyone has a schranz monster inside them and is just too afraid to admit it.

[rhythmtech]

* Poor Production
* The fact it is shranz
* There’s an abba sample in it
* It lacks any real creative insight
* Despite all of these reasons it probably will still do all right when it comes to sales.



i really dont think the fact that its schranz has anything to do with it.. theres plenty of good schranz out there.

[DORYL_ROY]

i really dont think the fact that its schranz has anything to do with it.. theres plenty of good schranz out there.

That was just one of the reasons I gave. Yes I agree there is good schranz out there just like there’s quality stuff with all genres of music and also bad. The point I was trying to make is that why people care so much and feel the need to point out that its not that good when its obvious and why in a scene like the techno scene, which imo is all about individuality and freedom, are there people judging when all that its about is to be free to do what you want and not necessarily feel the need to conform and be bound by the shackles of society.

[rhythmtech]

ok i think you're going a little far with it now.. its just a crap tune, its not a damning indication of the scene/style whatsoever.

[DORYL_ROY]

ok i think you're going a little far with it now.. its just a crap tune, its not a damning indication of the scene/style whatsoever.

If it’s just a crap tune and that’s that then why should anyone feel the need to make it known that it’s a crap tune. Isn’t it going a little far to point that out? Why does there seem to be a need to put something down and categorize it. Its this fundamental floor that has saturated the techno scene with shit IMO and im sorry if u think im going to far with it but doing things half hearted isn’t my style and if I have something to say and I feel the need to say it, which isn’t often, then I will.

[rhythmtech]

this is a techno discussion forum and its a crap tune :whoops:

its not discussing this kinda crap thats bad.

if we ignore it like a naughty child will it go away? no.

so y not discuss it in the place that we're meant to? or is it now wrong to say even 2-unlimited were on the crap side?

this place is just so full of extremists.. what the hell is wrong with saying you like/dont like something these days?

if you say you dont like it you get shot down for being negative and if you say you do like it then theres someone lining up to take a stab at your tastes..

should a forum be one big happy cock sucking fest? or as scott so nicely put it "everyone giving the reach around"? or should it be just a place to come and diss everything.. even when you sometimes have no idea what you're talking about?

personally i'd prefer somewhere in between.

crap tune - end of story.

[DORYL_ROY]

this is a techno discussion forum and its a crap tune :whoops:

its not discussing this kinda crap thats bad.

if we ignore it like a naughty child will it go away? no.

so y not discuss it in the place that we're meant to? or is it now wrong to say even 2-unlimited were on the crap side?

this place is just so full of extremists.. what the hell is wrong with saying you like/dont like something these days?

if you say you dont like it you get shot down for being negative and if you say you do like it then theres someone lining up to take a stab at your tastes..

should a forum be one big happy cock sucking fest? or as scott so nicely put it "everyone giving the reach around"? or should it be just a place to come and diss everything.. even when you sometimes have no idea what you're talking about?

personally i'd prefer somewhere in between.

crap tune - end of story.

You have missed my point completely

[rhythmtech]

well then try and explain it in a way that i can understand.

cause what im getting is - dont say anything bad about a tune cause that just makes the scene worse.

no thats bullshit - the negativity that i disagree with is people dissing other peoples work because they're not familiar with the style, they dont like the style or 100 other reasons..

but saying you think a perticualr tune is crap is not negativity.. its just not liking something.

[DORYL_ROY]

You said

'If you don’t like it you get shot down for being negative and if you say you do like it then there’s someone lining up to take a stab at your tastes'

Which helps illustrate my point. The way people are and how they react to certain things goes against what i believe the techno scene to be about and imo this in turn is making the scene worse. The fact that a schranz tune was made poorly really has no bearing on what im trying to say it was only used as a platform to get my point across. I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion because that would be going against my own beliefs making me a hypocrite. I’m just saying its wrong that’s all.

[rhythmtech]

so its wrong.. but im allowed say what i want.. but its wrong.

your logic is oustanding.

[dirty_bass]

In a new light I actually see the value in this tune, rather ironically for me.

It`s a bit of humour. Which techno really really needs sometimes.
No worse than One night in hackney for it`s sillyness, and nothing to be taken seriously.

It won`t destroy the scene, it won`t give techno a bad reputation, it`ll make a few people laugh, especially if timed just right, it will probably get a whole bunch of people jumping around, and maybe, just maybe this will drag some people into a techno room, who wouldn`t normally be there, and then they might stay once it has been mixed out.

I`m not really a fan of this tune, but I don`t see the point of talking about musical merits any more, because where do you set the line?

[rhythmtech]

goes against what i believe the techno scene to be about

what do you beleive the techno scene to be about exactly?

[machina]

It`s a bit of humour. Which techno really really needs sometimes.
No worse than One night in hackney for it`s sillyness, and nothing to be taken seriously.

It won`t destroy the scene, it won`t give techno a bad reputation, it`ll make a few people laugh, especially if timed just right, it will probably get a whole bunch of people jumping around, and maybe, just maybe this will drag some people into a techno room, who wouldn`t normally be there, and then they might stay once it has been mixed out.

I`m not really a fan of this tune, but I don`t see the point of talking about musical merits any more, because where do you set the line?

I agree with most of this except one key bit - "it won`t give techno a bad reputation" - bullshit... it will definately give techno bad reputation, "One night in hackney" did also - it's a joke tune sure, but it makes the everything seem like a joke... the only people that laugh are those that know it's meant to be a joke and this is surprisingly a small proportion... For everyone else, stuff like "One night in hackney" and this shite aren't thought of as jokes because nrg/hard house/cheesyball producers do it without the slightest bit of irony all the time - it only does harm to techno itself and especially the producers themselves... Due to "one night in hackney" and all this schranz remake/remix like that born slippy bullshit a huge amount of people think that is what techno is about, and the people that know what techno is won't go near it - try convincing people (at least over here) that people like Henry, Chris Lib etc make techno... it's an uphill battle when they mention cheeseball tracks and don't get the joke.... people have to remember that people really, seriously produce that shite. **** knows why, but idiots somehow see some artistic merit in it... do a novelty/joke track at your peril...

machina

[dirty_bass]

If people form their entire opinion about a genre by one or two comedy tracks, then they are the type of person that follows trends, and needs to be told what is cool more than likely.
If they don`t look too depply into things then they are unlikely to ever be more than a fleeting fan of techno anyway.

so who cares.

As far as I can tell with what I know with this biz, no distributer has experienced any negative side effects of cheesy comedy tracks, no club and no producer.
People that know techno, know techno, people that are inquisitive will look further, but as for techno having a bad rep cos of some cheesy schranze? I think we are long beyond that. the average joe still thinks that techno is 2unlimited.
It really isn`t that much to worry about.
And for me to say that takes a lot, as I am a totally pretencious artist.

[jk_scowling]

cheese on toast.

[Roxy Trip]

:whoops:

http://www.kinetec.co.uk/view.php?TitleId=16572

schranz with mama-mia (abba) samples.. now im not gonna get into a schranz debate but this is dreadful.

:laughing: omg thats just madness who the hell would buy this shite