Vinyl vs Digital - Which do you buy?

[DJ Becka]

I would like to keep this from turning into a heavy debate of vinyl vs digital, but more to find out what people's purchasing habits are at the present time.

To begin:


Of the people on this board purchasing electronic music:

How many of you are djs?

How many of you are purchasing vinyl?

How many are purchasing music digitally (ie Beatport, DJ Download.com, etc)?

How many are purchasing both?

Next set of questions:

How many of you are not djs, but purchase electronic music for your own listening pleasure?

Of the non-djs, how many of you are purchasing vinyl?

How many are purchasing music digitally (ie Beatport, DJ Download.com, etc)?

How many are purchasing both?


That's all for now - once I think of more questions, I will be posting them, but please, I would like serious responses here, not a pissing match over which format is better.

Thanks :)

[acidguru]

Only vinyl,as i don´t play in public i´d say non-DJ.I would buy digital releases if they were from one of my fav artists/labels and not available as vinyl!

[t-dj]

I believe people who play only one medium missing out...there is way too much good stuff on either domain exclusive

[Jay Pace]

Buy very little vinyl these days, but where its not possible to get digital I will.
Play out using digital and vinyl.

[Louk]

play both,a set usually consists of around 50% vinyl, 50% cd

[MARK ANXIOUS]

about 6 months ago i forced myself to record all my vinyl into the computer and play a whole set of cd's. and then i suddenly realised holy shit, i'm not having to worry about that pissed up twat at the front bouncing too much. it was a revalation. since then i've played lots and lots of complete cd sets. that walking on eggshells feeling when the decks are badly set up completely goes and i'm alot less drained at the end of a set. more time for dancing and enjoying the music! also these days, lots of ppl play cd sets and they tend to put their cd case on the decks and i'm noticing they are sometimes pressing against the needle. ie more deck problems if you then play vinyl. not only that, sound crew just arent paying attention to setting up decks properly anymore (not that they always did), cause more and more ppl are on cd's.

and that's only half the pluses of playing a set of cd's. sound wise (and believe me, i have analyzed this like a cunt on stick) the pitching up and down of cd's is much more digital and sounds more clinical than doing it via the analog medium of a vinyl and a technics 1210. so to get round this, i've been recording the vinyl onto cd at approxiamately the pitch i would be playing them at a club. this way, the clinic sound of cd pitching up is not there. ok, well to go one better i've now started remastering all the pitched up vinyls so the freq ranges are back in the correct places. phew, it's a damn hard job and it now takes me a full day longer to get ready for a set, but the result is entirely worth it. sound wise, my set is the shit, it can't be any better imho. i am super happy with the result. i could never have got this type of perfection with vinyl, plus i can do some nice sneaky edits in ableton and make some exclusive mixes of the tracks. i just feel more creative and focused than ever.

ok so you might say that's that. good job! well actually it's not. and what's made it like that is the odd person coming up to me playing cd's and saying 'play vinyl, you cunt!'. to the point that even my own girlfriend chrissi tells me 'mark, it just looks shit, you wanna see someone playing vinyl'. so off i went on youtube armed with a glass of vino and sure enough, a dj playing vinyl looks damn good. cd's look awful. then there's the morality of the fact i've bought vinyl for the past 20 years and now, it looks like i'm not supporting it (when in fact i'm still buying as much vinyl as i ever did, only it's not looking that way cause i'm recording to cd). vinyl is such a special medium. without it, i would be screwed. i don't want it to disappear.

so now, i'm onto another mission. in the next few weeks i'm going to start using a virtual turntable system with timecoded vinyl. now, if the decks are set up good (which is becoming less and less), i will force myself to play vinyl (or at least try to consider it more than i have been the last 6 months). if not, i will then set up this system. if it's too dangerous, gonna destroy my equipment or impractical, then we swap to cd's. that way, we get the best of both worlds, 66% of the time, the performance looks good, 66% of the time the sound quality is spot on, and 33% of the time i look shit playing cd's. Much better imho than the way I've been doing the last 6 months.

Well this is just my thoughts and experiences. PS I voted option 3 ;)

[Jay Pace]

Virtual turntables look the shit and sound ace if you do it properly

Its also pretty nice to load up a track as soon as you think of it in a second, rather than furiously rummage through your bag looking for it.

Much as I love vinyl, I'm not that arsed about paying £7 just to have it on a piece of plastic if all I really care about is the music that comes on it.

[DJ Becka]

about 6 months ago i forced myself to record all my vinyl into the computer and play a whole set of cd's. and then i suddenly realised holy shit, i'm not having to worry about that pissed up twat at the front bouncing too much. it was a revalation. since then i've played lots and lots of complete cd sets. that walking on eggshells feeling when the decks are badly set up completely goes and i'm alot less drained at the end of a set. more time for dancing and enjoying the music! also these days, lots of ppl play cd sets and they tend to put their cd case on the decks and i'm noticing they are sometimes pressing against the needle. ie more deck problems if you then play vinyl. not only that, sound crew just arent paying attention to setting up decks properly anymore (not that they always did), cause more and more ppl are on cd's.

and that's only half the pluses of playing a set of cd's. sound wise (and believe me, i have analyzed this like a cunt on stick) the pitching up and down of cd's is much more digital and sounds more clinical than doing it via the analog medium of a vinyl and a technics 1210. so to get round this, i've been recording the vinyl onto cd at approxiamately the pitch i would be playing them at a club. this way, the clinic sound of cd pitching up is not there. ok, well to go one better i've now started remastering all the pitched up vinyls so the freq ranges are back in the correct places. phew, it's a damn hard job and it now takes me a full day longer to get ready for a set, but the result is entirely worth it. sound wise, my set is the shit, it can't be any better imho. i am super happy with the result. i could never have got this type of perfection with vinyl, plus i can do some nice sneaky edits in ableton and make some exclusive mixes of the tracks. i just feel more creative and focused than ever.

ok so you might say that's that. good job! well actually it's not. and what's made it like that is the odd person coming up to me playing cd's and saying 'play vinyl, you cunt!'. to the point that even my own girlfriend chrissi tells me 'mark, it just looks shit, you wanna see someone playing vinyl'. so off i went on youtube armed with a glass of vino and sure enough, a dj playing vinyl looks damn good. cd's look awful. then there's the morality of the fact i've bought vinyl for the past 20 years and now, it looks like i'm not supporting it (when in fact i'm still buying as much vinyl as i ever did, only it's not looking that way cause i'm recording to cd). vinyl is such a special medium. without it, i would be screwed. i don't want it to disappear.

so now, i'm onto another mission. in the next few weeks i'm going to start using a virtual turntable system with timecoded vinyl. now, if the decks are set up good (which is becoming less and less), i will force myself to play vinyl (or at least try to consider it more than i have been the last 6 months). if not, i will then set up this system. if it's too dangerous, gonna destroy my equipment or impractical, then we swap to cd's. that way, we get the best of both worlds, 66% of the time, the performance looks good, 66% of the time the sound quality is spot on, and 33% of the time i look shit playing cd's. Much better imho than the way I've been doing the last 6 months.

Well this is just my thoughts and experiences. PS I voted option 3 ;)


Bloody hell! That's a lot of work to put into playing music. (no one said it was an easy job, btw) But I'm sitting here laughing at this whole process you put yourself through.

Me personally, I like seeing a dj rocking behind a set of decks, rather than a laptop - cdjs, ehhh.....it doesnt bother me so much - but overall, behind the decks, the dj projects a certain vibe and energy to the crowd that you just cannot compare to someone rocking a set on laptops or cdjs. Now, I've had this discussion with people before who seem to think otherwise - they say you can do much more doing an ableton set than you could ever do with decks, but after experiencing doing an ableton set out in public myself, I found it to be really boring.....just point, click, use the occassional efx, blah blah - whoopidee dooooo....I like playing a vinyl (or vinyl-like) medium - I like the feeling I get behind a set of decks.....but that's just ME and my personal preference.....I dont think there's anything anyone could say or do to make me change my mind about what I choose to use for djing. (I use serato scratch, btw....next best thing to vinyl....and I love it)

As for what my purchasing habits are - I purchase both vinyl and digital, but I find more and more less of a reason to buy vinyl nowadays....it just doesnt seem cost effective to me anymore when I can pick and choose the tracks I want from an EP, vs buy the whole thing on vinyl for 9 euros, only to play one track.....

Which brings me to this.....for the diehard people who are purchasing only vinyl - what will you do if vinyl disappears? Would you switch to digital? Or would you hang up your decks and call it a day?

[dubs]

I've started buying some digital but still mostly vinyl. The new cdj's are a dream to mix on but i can't imagine preferring to play on them. I can understand what people say about the options you have with digital and i guess we've only just touched the surface...but I look at what DJ Dave, Cut La Roc, A-Train etc do on the decks and the direct human contact with records - the chance to pull out some freaky cuts or **** them up etc gives me a greater pleasure when playing. Nothing like a full club and a few beers behind you and some nice vinyl to mix it up.

I love working with digital at home and on production. I can't see it ever being better for me in a club.

[dirty_bass]

The physical action of mixing on CD, or twiddling vinyl, or moving sliders when using a laptop, is hardly much different is it.
Lets face it, Dance music performers aren`t interesting to watch, lets not kid ourselves, it`s some guy, or girl, fiddling with some very unphysical equipment, making small movements (unless it`s some gimp scratching records with his nose or something).
So all this "Vinyl is a better performance" is just sentiment.
You can put the same amount of energy into whatever you are using to perform with.
Be it a mouth organ, or a CDJ.

Mark for instance, will always be the jumping, arm flailing, gurning loon, he is, no matter what he uses. And that`s what people love.

The music is paramount, it`s 2007 and we need to stop talking about the medium, and start talking about the music, and it`s future.

[DannyBlack]

vinyl.

[DJ Becka]

The physical action of mixing on CD, or twiddling vinyl, or moving sliders when using a laptop, is hardly much different is it.
Lets face it, Dance music performers aren`t interesting to watch, lets not kid ourselves, it`s some guy, or girl, fiddling with some very unphysical equipment, making small movements (unless it`s some gimp scratching records with his nose or something).


Oh contraire, mon frere......physical action of mixing with vinyl vs ableton is much different. I can safely give an honest and fair opinion having experienced the use of both at performances. I used ableton - I found myself playing great music, but bored out of my mind - everything is warped so the beats are already matched for you once all the prep-work has been done - what fun is that? Sure, you can use efx and blah blah, but the same can be done when you are playing vinyl (or in my case, using serato) and having a pioneer or any number of mixers on the market that have built in filters and efx. At least when I'm playing vinyl, I feel like I'm constantly moving and doing something......but this is my personal preference.

And this was not my intention when posting this poll - to get into a debate over what medium or method of 'djing' is better.....whatever floats your boat....just because I dont enjoy playing on ableton or cds at a gig, doesnt mean the next guy has to do the same.

Either way - it's more a question of what everyone is purchasing these days. As a label owner, I am curious, as I'm sure several other people on here who own labels are too. It's simply a matter of whether or not you want to continue investing in pressing vinyl, and risk losing money, or is digital the way to go.....and should we slowly start phasing vinyl out and start figuring out ways to move things forward in the digital area. I dont like it any more than the diehard vinyl junkies do, having bought vinyl on my own since the 80's, but let's be real here, it's bound to happen sooner or later.....

That is all......

[DannyBlack]

*ducks for cover as all the ableton fiends weigh in with their 2 penneth*

[DJ Becka]

*ducks for cover as all the ableton fiends weigh in with their 2 penneth*


I'm shakin in my little pink slippers ;)

[DannyBlack]

I'm shakin in my little pink slippers ;)


:laughing: funnily enough, thats what i wear when im banging out schranz. pink slippers, nowt else.


:laughing: but i agree with you to a certain extent about vinyl. i love it, cant get enough of it.

[benji303]

vinyl 4 mixing but i do use mp3 just for listen to music not 4 mixing though LOL

[kev]

I would like to keep this from turning into a heavy debate of vinyl vs digital, but more to find out what people's purchasing habits are at the present time.



That's all for now - once I think of more questions, I will be posting them, but please, I would like serious responses here, not a pissing match over which format is better.

Thanks :)
:) :)

[TechMouse]

I'm a DJ, I buy vinyl and digital though I try to get Techno stuff on vinyl where possible.

[rhythmtech]

*ducks for cover as all the ableton fiends weigh in with their 2 penneth*

i cant be arsed arguing about it no more..

i play for the people that are dancing. not the nerds who are more worried about what i look like than what i sound like.

[TechMouse]

but after experiencing doing an ableton set out in public myself, I found it to be really boring.....just point, click, use the occassional efx, blah blah - whoopidee dooooo....
With respect though Becka, that really doesn't sound like you're pushing Ableton to it's limits at all. As with all performance, if you're getting bored then you could always be doing something else to add to it.

I've seen some people do utterly uninspiring Ableton sets, and then I've seen others totally take it to the next level.

I still love a good old fashioned rinseout on the 1's and 2's. I just think there are people doing great stuff with laptops out there across all the genres. For Techno, have a look at Radial, Raw Hedroom and Dirty Bass. For Electronica / D&B, check out Exile. For Breaks, seek out Splitloop.

[dirty_bass]

Oh contraire, mon frere......physical action of mixing with vinyl vs ableton is much different. I can safely give an honest and fair opinion having experienced the use of both at performances. I used ableton - I found myself playing great music, but bored out of my mind - everything is warped so the beats are already matched for you once all the prep-work has been done - what fun is that? Sure, you can use efx and blah blah, but the same can be done when you are playing vinyl (or in my case, using serato) and having a pioneer or any number of mixers on the market that have built in filters and efx. At least when I'm playing vinyl, I feel like I'm constantly moving and doing something......but this is my personal preference.



then you quite simply aren`t using your equipment to it`s full potential.
When I played vinyl, the mix was in within 10-15 seconds.
I had time to jump about and light a cig.
Now I play with up to 12 tracks of audio, plus efx, I`m sweating like a right bastard, and totally totally focused on the mix.
However, that`s live PA, DJing with ableton is a little different.
But it`s still arguiing over nothing.
I`ve taught people to mix in a day, it`s not really hard is it, pure motor skill.
Essentially learning 2 things, how much of a difference moving the pitch slider makes to the vinyl speed, and how to handle the vinyl on the platter.
then just learning to use your ears effectively, and then EQ.
It`s not rocket science, and hardly much of a performance now is it?

Not that it matters, but if I still DJ`d, I expect I`d use mostly ableton, with a touch of vinyl occasionally, just to stop me getting rusty.

[TechMouse]

Sure, you can use efx and blah blah, but the same can be done when you are playing vinyl (or in my case, using serato) and having a pioneer or any number of mixers on the market that have built in filters and efx.
Can you mix elements of 5 or 6 tracks at once?

Can you re-sequence tracks on the fly so that (e.g.) you have a breakdown last twice as long as it might do normally, off the cuff?

Can you jig it so that you hit the drop of 3 tracks simultenously at the click of a button?

Can you trivially add your own drum loops and acid lines in real time?

Can you sample your voice, chop it up into transients, apply the groove template of some other loop that's running and then bring it in as a texture - completely improvised?

Seriously, there are things you can do with Ableton you couldn't hope to do with vinyl. You can get close using CD decks with cue & loop points, but it's still not quite as flexible.

If you can't imagine stuff you could do with Ableton that you couldn't do with decks then you're just not thinking very hard.

[TechMouse]

Just to add some context here, I DJ pretty exclusively with vinyl - occasionally with CDs.

I'm just getting into Ableton but I don't think I'd bother using it as a DJing tool, that feels like a massive waste to me. Live PA all the way I reckon.

[DJ Becka]

Just to add some context here, I DJ pretty exclusively with vinyl - occasionally with CDs.

I'm just getting into Ableton but I don't think I'd bother using it as a DJing tool, that feels like a massive waste to me. Live PA all the way I reckon.

See, this is where I can see ableton being more useful - using it more as a live pa tool rather than a djing one. Perhaps I am not using it to it's full potential - actually, I am SURE I'm not, but either way, it's just not my personal preference for djing. Call me old fashioned - I just enjoy being behind the decks better. And yes, I've seen people do really cool sets with ableton too, just the same as seeing people doing shitty sets with it. For me, I'll use it for production and stick with the vinyl medium for playing out at gigs.

As it is, I only switched to using Serato a little over a year ago - I was vinyl all the way, as was my attitude towards djs and what they were using to play. It's been a gradual process for me to start to embrace more digital means of doing things.....give a sista a break......I grew up with vinyl - so it's a bit tough to just let it go.....I had to work hard to get to where I am, and now any idiot can be a dj with all the technology that is out there to make it easy for them.

Ok, so this is starting to go in the wrong direction, but I'll briefly touch upon this, since people think I'm completely wrong, and so you can understand why I feel the way I feel about this stuff.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's what's coming out of the speakers that matters, but I think what bothers me the most about people using ableton for djing is that they just seem to look/act bored. I dont stand there and watch the dj the entire time, however, if I am on the dancefloor, I look up and see that the dj looks bored and has one hand in their pocket, it kinda kills the vibe for me. Again, this is just me - if it doesnt bother any of you, that's your perogative....

Anyway, if for some reason, I happen to change my mind in the future in terms of using something other than vinyl for djing, I'll be sure to let you all know ;)

btw, did I mention that I buy both vinyl and digital? Yea....that was the subject of this poll......lol

[dan the acid man]

mainly buying digital these days, wish i could afford to buy both in same quantaties but i can't.

I have as much fun mixing with ableton as i do with vinyl, as i also try to use more channels with ableton and push things a little further although im still learning.

It is nice to get the old decks out now and again though, had them out for the first time in a year the other week

[BRADLEE]

Hang out on both ends at the moments.

[xfive]

Call me cynical but..

Neither.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything worth buying...

[DJ Becka]

Call me cynical but..

Neither.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything worth buying...

Great response.....thanks for playing.

[wrong]

and then i suddenly realised holy shit, i'm not having to worry about that pissed up twat at the front bouncing too much.

heheh, don't you mean you don't have to worry about YOU bouncing around too much... ;)

i still use vinyl all the way.. exept if i got some new tracks then i'll play em on cd , but never more than 3 or 4 during a set.. I would buy digital if it point blank wasn't available on vinyl, but for me i only feel that i own the track if i have it on vinyl, even cd feels false... thinking of releasing the don't back catalogue as mp3's tho... can't hurt can it.. There's really nothing i've heard that i'd want to buy that exists soley as an mp3 release, but if that changes then of course i'd buy it and incorporate it on a burned cd..

[xfive]

Great response.....thanks for playing.


I wish I were playing :)

[dubs]

Disclaimer..... I'm not taking the piss with anyone...

In my post i spoke about my preference. I agree with what's been said above and the possibilities offered by digital are great and will only get better. but in response to the above "When I played vinyl, the mix was in within 10-15 seconds." it would seem that you're not getting the most out of vinyl.

Obviously this is a discussion about personal pref and mine is with vinyl, firstly because it is what i know, and secondly because with three decks and effects there is a massive potential each set to create new sounds and cuts. This is not to say it's better than digital, but for me...having 3 decks and a box of records and no plan provides me with the greatest pleasure when playing and when i'm watching a dj i also like to see fast working creativity on the decks al la the 'Wizard'.

If what I like is better for the average punter i have no idea but for me it's best.

[Martin Dust]

I'll use anything and everything, I'm planning on playing some spoons at Fabric this weekend.

[Si the Sigh]

Spoons? Move with the times man...

It's all about the forks now.

[Martin Dust]

Well we may as well talk about spoons and forks :)

I just don't get why techno dj's, of all people, don't like change and choose to cling to past like it's some kind rite of passage.

[christian wagner]

I buy vinyl, i dont do CD's there cheap and crappy and VERY unreliable, plus iv played on so many CD decks in clubs that have been shitted up and just skip all over the place, and i think theres far too much hype on the whole digital thing, its made out to be summot special and groundbreaking.

These variants in music mediums ties in nicely with the competitive DJ thing, and its a bit sad. i KNOW in some genres, if you dont play off CD or laptop, you dont get booked, purely because if you do use CD's or laptop - people seem to think you have exclusive material - the fact of whether or not its not been heard before is irrelevent. As well as the whole "digital is cleaner blah blah" argument, playing off CD or Laptop is an Ego sorta thing i think.

Said that... i DO play off laptop and really enjoy it, playing a loada loops. beats, acid lines, breakdowns all in different places is really fun, add that to a midi controller with FX's macrod to them and your laughing.
THEN at select intervals play a few new vinyls..... Or CD's if the CDJ's work :D

PLEASE READ:
i am NOT saying that in techno that its an Ego thing playing off digital mediums that have exclusive 'not-released-on-vinyl-yet'
I just hope it doesnt go the same way as a lot of other dance music.
Il buy vinyl untill the big bosses in suits who own the companies that make the vinyl say "were finally stopping vinyl production" which is a long way off yet - vinyl is pressed all over this blue earth, and theres always gonna be someone who wants vinyl......noticed the influx in Indie & rock music on vinyl? and HMV's sudden influx in vinyl stock? (at the HMV in derby anyway)!

[christian wagner]

I just don't get why techno dj's, of all people, don't like change and choose to cling to past like it's some kind rite of passage.

I dont see it as a MAJOR change, i personally see it as a bit of an overblown topic :lol:

.....I remember playing spoons back in the day.........The tablespoon variety - That scene was cracking haha!

[DJ Becka]

Obviously this is a discussion about personal pref and mine is with vinyl, firstly because it is what i know, and secondly because with three decks and effects there is a massive potential each set to create new sounds and cuts. This is not to say it's better than digital, but for me...having 3 decks and a box of records and no plan provides me with the greatest pleasure when playing and when i'm watching a dj i also like to see fast working creativity on the decks al la the 'Wizard'.


Actually, this wasnt intended to be a discussion over what people's personal preference was, but it seems to have derailed and is going that route.

I really posted the poll because I just wanted to know whether people were buying vinyl, digital, or both.....

It's a simple question really.....and I have my reasons for asking.....which I will be sure to disclose at some point in the future.....for now, anyone who has not answered the poll, please do so....this is actually interesting because there seems to be an even split between those whoe buy soley vinyl and those who buy both......

[dan the acid man]

Actually, this wasnt intended to be a discussion over what people's personal preference was, but it seems to have derailed and is going that route.

I really posted the poll because I just wanted to know whether people were buying vinyl, digital, or both.....

It's a simple question really.....and I have my reasons for asking.....which I will be sure to disclose at some point in the future.....for now, anyone who has not answered the poll, please do so....this is actually interesting because there seems to be an even split between those whoe buy soley vinyl and those who buy both......

my guess is you're thinking of setting up a label but want to gain an idea of what medium people are wanting to buy, or am i wrong?

[dubs]

he's not setting up a fruit shop?

[TechMouse]

As it is, I only switched to using Serato a little over a year ago - I was vinyl all the way, as was my attitude towards djs and what they were using to play. It's been a gradual process for me to start to embrace more digital means of doing things.....give a sista a break......I grew up with vinyl - so it's a bit tough to just let it go.....

So, just to try and pin this down a little:

You're using Serato anyway, so you're already eschewing rooting around in a record bag in favour of searching on a laptop. So this makes me wonder...

Is it just the mechanical action of getting two pieces of plastic rotating at the correct relative speeds that does it for you?

And if so, why exactly?

I take your point about people looking bored, but I've seen vinyl DJ's look bored before too. Surely that's a shortcoming in the DJ rather than an inherent stumling block of the technology.

Just trying to understand your point of view.


I had to work hard to get to where I am, and now any idiot can be a dj with all the technology that is out there to make it easy for them.
I don't get that angle at all.

Are Americans worse drivers than us Brits because the majority of you use automatic cars? Of course not...

Surely the difference is that people just have to work harder to stand out?

Just like with producing IMHO.

20 years ago, only a few people had access to the technology. Now it's commonplace. You have to be better to make your mark.

[TechMouse]

There's really nothing i've heard that i'd want to buy that exists soley as an mp3 release
Come now Jerome, what about Digital Distortions (http://www.digital-distortions.co.uk/) or Virus B-23 (http://virusb-23.co.uk/)?

Both reasonably up your street I would have thought.

[bushby]

and has one hand in their pocket

When I used to use decks I'd mix with my hand in my pocket. Now I use ableton there's too much going on for me to have my hand in my pocket (unless I'm "under the influence" in which case I might not play quite as many tracks an may have to relax a bit with my hand in my pocket)

I'm the only person on the poll that buys / plays purely digital as well it seems.

[DJ Becka]

my guess is you're thinking of setting up a label but want to gain an idea of what medium people are wanting to buy, or am i wrong?

No, actually, I already have a label....surprise surprise.....I'm asking the questions for other reasons - partly to satify my own curiousity though.....

And as for the rest of you people who want to continue debating over what medium is better, what method of playing is better blah blah blah.....go stuff it....

I came on here to ask one simple question and yet you want to start some pissing match with me and I'm not havin it.....

This is actually the main reason why I dont even bother posting on this board.....

I'll reserve the choice words I have for some of the people on here though, out of respect to Mark and the other peeps who regulate around here.....

[rhythmtech]

20 years ago, only a few people had access to the technology. Now it's commonplace. You have to be better to make your mark.

exactly..

just because someone can produce a track doesnt mean its gonna be good and just because someone can play mp3s doesnt mean they can do it well.

the actual physical concept of playing vinyl is just as simple as mixing mp3 on laptop or cd.. if anyone here cant count to 4 then they're in trouble anyway.

[dan the acid man]

No, actually, I already have a label....surprise surprise.....I'm asking the questions for other reasons - partly to satify my own curiousity though.....

And as for the rest of you people who want to continue debating over what medium is better, what method of playing is better blah blah blah.....go stuff it....

I came on here to ask one simple question and yet you want to start some pissing match with me and I'm not havin it.....

This is actually the main reason why I dont even bother posting on this board.....

I'll reserve the choice words I have for some of the people on here though, out of respect to Mark and the other peeps who regulate around here.....

it's no surprise though, everytime this question is asked it reults in this situation, which is just human nature really, i doubt any forum anywhere else would be any different.


anyways, sorry for not realising you already had a label:ohdear: i must learn to look at peoples sigs:ohdear:

[TechMouse]

And as for the rest of you people who want to continue debating over what medium is better, what method of playing is better blah blah blah.....go stuff it....

I came on here to ask one simple question and yet you want to start some pissing match with me and I'm not havin it.....

This is actually the main reason why I dont even bother posting on this board.....

I'll reserve the choice words I have for some of the people on here though, out of respect to Mark and the other peeps who regulate around here.....

Steady now...

You can't come onto an internet forum asking questions like "who buys vinyl and who buys digital", throwing around massively crass generalisations like "DJing off a laptop is boring" and expect everybody else to keep their opinions to themselves.

[Traxx]

My cdj 800 mk2 arrived this morning, ive stayed off to break it in. Just spent £10.20 on 11 tunes i really wanted without having to pay for the other 2/3/4 tunes on the vinyl release i didnt want + postage... All in all...WINNER!!!!

[TechMouse]

My cdj 800 mk2 arrived this morning, ive stayed off to break it in. Just spent £10.20 on 11 tunes i really wanted without having to pay for the other 2/3/4 tunes on the vinyl release i didnt want + postage... All in all...WINNER!!!!
I've been buying electronica stuff from bleep.com and juno, and I have to say that the whole digital download experience is really something. You listen to clips, you say "I'll have that", you pay £1 or so a track, then in minutes it's downloaded to your HD.

Someone was telling me they were in a club a couple of months back, and someone asked the DJ if they had a certain tune, and he said no, but he had a 3G card so he went onto the internet, bought the tune, and then played it.

Pretty smooth.

[The Overfiend]

No, actually, I already have a label....surprise surprise.....I'm asking the questions for other reasons - partly to satify my own curiousity though.....

And as for the rest of you people who want to continue debating over what medium is better, what method of playing is better blah blah blah.....go stuff it....

I came on here to ask one simple question and yet you want to start some pissing match with me and I'm not havin it.....

This is actually the main reason why I dont even bother posting on this board.....

I'll reserve the choice words I have for some of the people on here though, out of respect to Mark and the other peeps who regulate around here.....

This is when I wave my NYC flag high and proud and say YOU GO GIRL!

[Traxx]

I've been buying electronica stuff from bleep.com and juno, and I have to say that the whole digital download experience is really something. You listen to clips, you say "I'll have that", you pay £1 or so a track, then in minutes it's downloaded to your HD.

Someone was telling me they were in a club a couple of months back, and someone asked the DJ if they had a certain tune, and he said no, but he had a 3G card so he went onto the internet, bought the tune, and then played it.

Pretty smooth.

Very smooth. You use beatport? i got a gift card with my cd deck and used the credits on it for some more tunes. Now when i click on download mp3 icon next to the track (in my ready to download section) nothing happens. IE doesnt say its blocking it or nothin just no result. Tried the FAQ's but they done seem to have the answer.

[SlavikSvensk]

Call me cynical but..

Neither.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything worth buying...

:laughing: you and me both, man

seriously though...my question for all the little subarguments (djing vs live PA, vinyl vs ableton)...does it really matter? djing with vinyl is the classic way of doing things, like reading a book. ableton is like playing a video game. they both have merits, they both have limits. they both provide fundamentally different experiences. on one side, you have people working with limited tools, but NO, it's not just motor skills. case in point: derrick may or jeff mills in their prime. nothing, IMO, beats a great performance by a dj. but few people are jeff mlls or derrick may. most djs play very drab sets just mixing and no cutting and little creativitiy. so ableton gives you tools to do all kind of crazy sh*t you can't do with just 2 or 3 decks, and it can really make the average techno performance a lot more interesting. i've seen fantastic, exciting abelton sets from people i know are very boring vinyl djs. even great vinyl djs can and should mess around with ableton so they stay fresh (unlike jeff mills, e.g.). so there's room for both of them.

[TechMouse]

You use beatport?
No, mainly been using Juno and Bleep.

I don't buy much Techno digitally, as we don't (always) have CD decks in the club.


i got a gift card with my cd deck and used the credits on it for some more tunes. Now when i click on download mp3 icon next to the track (in my ready to download section) nothing happens. IE doesnt say its blocking it or nothin just no result. Tried the FAQ's but they done seem to have the answer.
Sounds a bit weird.

Tried emailing them?

Online music vendors are normally good at sorting this kind of stuff out in my experience. On the grounds that if you're happy you're more likely to come back and spend more money!

I've got a free voicher for 50 tunes from eMusic which came with my mp3 player, but I haven't looked yet.

[dubs]

I've been buying electronica stuff from bleep.com and juno, and I have to say that the whole digital download experience is really something. You listen to clips, you say "I'll have that", you pay £1 or so a track, then in minutes it's downloaded to your HD.

Someone was telling me they were in a club a couple of months back, and someone asked the DJ if they had a certain tune, and he said no, but he had a 3G card so he went onto the internet, bought the tune, and then played it.

Pretty smooth.

now that is service. would you like fries with that :)

[TechMouse]

on one side, you have people working with limited tools, but NO, it's not just motor skills.
I agree, but I think outside the motor skills there is no difference between using decks, CD decks or Ableton.

At the end of the day, once you have 2 (or 3, or 4) pieces of music locked in time with each other,all the wizardry is done on the mixer - and thats true whatever your medium is.

[DJ Becka]

Steady now...

You can't come onto an internet forum asking questions like "who buys vinyl and who buys digital", throwing around massively crass generalisations like "DJing off a laptop is boring" and expect everybody else to keep their opinions to themselves.

Only because it turned into a 'which means is better for djing' kinda discussion.....

The minute I voiced my opinion and personal preference - based on my own experience with using such djing tools - then proceeded to tell you WHY I choose one method of djing over another - you people have to jump on my shit. Is this like a male ego thing that I dont understand that you have to do this every single time ANYONE who might have a different opinion/preference than yours says something?

I wasnt saying that my way was BETTER - I was simply saying WHY I chose one thing over another - and basing it on my own personal experience - because this is the way you people turned this thread. Did I say to any one of YOU that you suck for using ableton for djing or cdjs in this thread? No. Did I say that none of you should use these means to dj? Nooooooooo.

That was not the original intention of this poll, but once again, a perfectly simple question/thread has to degenerate into a big piece of crap on here.

I realize that you all seem to get off on waving your cocks around at each other on this board, but stop trying to involve me in your circle jerk.....


To everyone who has at least answered the poll so far, I appreciate it.....I will be sure to disclose why I wanted to know about purchasing habits eventually.....for now, it's too soon for me to say anything.

[SlavikSvensk]

I agree, but I think outside the motor skills there is no difference between using decks, CD decks or Ableton.

At the end of the day, once you have 2 (or 3, or 4) pieces of music locked in time with each other,all the wizardry is done on the mixer - and thats true whatever your medium is.

i disagree. any choice of medium creates boundaries and opportunities. the time it takes to pull a record out, ability to scratch, the way someone recovers from a record skip, etc. all of these derive from the use of vinyl only. as for motor skills, well, the USE of motor skills is a creative choice! i'm not saying there's a better or worse, just that there is a difference. people make choices which media they want to work with, but every choice yields advantages and disadvantages.

[rhythmtech]

Only because it turned into a 'which means is better for djing' kinda discussion.....

The minute I voiced my opinion and personal preference - based on my own experience with using such djing tools - then proceeded to tell you WHY I choose one method of djing over another - you people have to jump on my shit. Is this like a male ego thing that I dont understand that you have to do this every single time ANYONE who might have a different opinion/preference than yours says something?

I wasnt saying that my way was BETTER - I was simply saying WHY I chose one thing over another - and basing it on my own personal experience - because this is the way you people turned this thread. Did I say to any one of YOU that you suck for using ableton for djing or cdjs in this thread? No. Did I say that none of you should use these means to dj? Nooooooooo.

That was not the original intention of this poll, but once again, a perfectly simple question/thread has to degenerate into a big piece of crap on here.

I realize that you all seem to get off on waving your cocks around at each other on this board, but stop trying to involve me in your circle jerk.....


To everyone who has at least answered the poll so far, I appreciate it.....I will be sure to disclose why I wanted to know about purchasing habits eventually.....for now, it's too soon for me to say anything.

you really need to get down off your whole men vs women buzz that you seem to throw arouns quite a lot.. and not just on this forum but others aswell.. this has nothing to do with you being a female and everything to do with people voicing their opinion.. JUST LIKE YOU VOICED YOURS!

you had this arguement with me b4 and decided that because i gave my opinion back that i was "getting on your shit" .. just chill the fuk out and let others do what they want.. worry about your own shit for a change.

[dan the acid man]

Very smooth. You use beatport? i got a gift card with my cd deck and used the credits on it for some more tunes. Now when i click on download mp3 icon next to the track (in my ready to download section) nothing happens. IE doesnt say its blocking it or nothin just no result. Tried the FAQ's but they done seem to have the answer.

never had that problem on beatport, have you made sure your firewall isn't blocking them?

[TechMouse]

i disagree. any choice of medium creates boundaries and opportunities. the time it takes to pull a record out, ability to scratch, the way someone recovers from a record skip, etc. all of these derive from the use of vinyl only. as for motor skills, well, the USE of motor skills is a creative choice! i'm not saying there's a better or worse, just that there is a difference. people make choices which media they want to work with, but every choice yields advantages and disadvantages.
You really think watching a DJ rummaging in a bag for his next tune or dealing with a record skip is compulsive viewing?

I totally hear you on the scratching, but I'd suggest that's a minority of a minority of people. Oh, and I've seen a few people (DJ Food and Max Cooper being vivid examples) totally scratch the **** out of a CDJ-1000 and it sound amazing.

I get the feeling I'm being misread here. I love DJing vinyl as much as the next guy, and as I said I get 99% of my Techno on vinyl. I just can't understand anyone who dismisses the alternatives as inherently less compelling.

@Becka: I totally hear what you're saying, and the only point I was taking issue with was when you said that you found using Ableton boring. That's it.

Apologies if that loosely translates as waving my cock around.

Oh, I answered the poll as well. :)

[michael00elder]

I buy 95% of my stuff digitally. I much prefer the ease of just going onto Beatport or Audiojelly and paying my £1.49 and getting my hands on a tune in a couple of minutes.

When I was growing up, I never had decks and I just wasn't really that interested in buying vinyl, something that I now really regret, but for the last 15 years, I've just been collecting CD's obssesively. I just love using CD decks cause of all the functions and features that they offer.

Just out of interest, I was wondering if any of you lot buy your digital downloads in WAV format. I know Beatport has just recently started offering their music in WAV files, and they aren't too expensive either, but personally, I just settle for 320kb MP3s.
I know that most DJ's just don't fell that MP3's are good enough in quality but I've put lot's of CD's together with tunes that I've ripped onto my computer and I actually struggle to notice any real difference from the 320kb MP3's and the original version on CD.

[DJ Becka]

you had this arguement with me b4 and decided that because i gave my opinion back that i was "getting on your shit" .. just chill the fuk out and let others do what they want.. worry about your own shit for a change.


I DO worry about my own shit, which is another reason why I hardly post on here.....I merely came on here to ask ONE simple question and it turns into crap.....you know what.....I'm not even repeating myself on here.....learn how to read....

[dirty_bass]

Well we may as well talk about spoons and forks :)

I just don't get why techno dj's, of all people, don't like change and choose to cling to past like it's some kind rite of passage.

It`s all about the egg whisks now.
Although there is a debate over the electric ones, some people say they make it too easy to whisk your egg.

[TechMouse]

Just out of interest, I was wondering if any of you lot buy your digital downloads in WAV format. I know Beatport has just recently started offering their music in WAV files, and they aren't too expensive either, but personally, I just settle for 320kb MP3s.
I know that most DJ's just don't fell that MP3's are good enough in quality but I've put lot's of CD's together with tunes that I've ripped onto my computer and I actually struggle to notice any real difference from the 320kb MP3's and the original version on CD.
I've bought stuff in FLAC format a few times.

320kbps mp3 does the job though.

[TechMouse]

It`s all about the egg whisks now.
Although there is a debate over the electric ones, some people say they make it too easy to whisk your egg.
I just can't enjoy an omellete unless I've manually beat the eggs.

[dirty_bass]

I just can't enjoy an omellete unless I've manually beat the eggs.

Quote of the month!!!!!


From this
Vinyl vs Digital - Which do you buy?

to this
I just can't enjoy an omellete unless I've manually beat the eggs.

Sometimes, I love this place.

[dubs]

I utterly refuse to eat eggs with anything other than chopsticks.

[TechMouse]

I utterly refuse to eat eggs with anything other than chopsticks.
Plastic or wooden?

[dubs]

do i really need to answer that question?

[The Overfiend]

Wow, I guess respect costs too much these days.

[dan the acid man]

I can't see anybody disrespecting anybody round here, just a dicussion, i suppose that's the problem with forums, we all read different things from the same posts

[Martin Dust]

My whole point is do your own thing, take it as far as you can and then add some more risks - it don't matter what you use or what anyone elses uses for that matter. The question or answer won't make any difference to the end result, IMHO.

[rhythmtech]

it don't matter what you use or what anyone elses uses for that matter. The question or answer won't make any difference to the end result, IMHO.

exactly.. who cares.. good music is good music no matter where it comes from.

[judas_beast]

So I'm the only one who buys Techno on sheet music? You lot have sold out, maaan.

[The Overfiend]

So I'm the only one who buys Techno on sheet music? You lot have sold out, maaan.

That's original.

[Martin Dust]

exactly.. who cares.. good music is good music no matter where it comes from.

For me this is where your head needs to be at, I can understand Becka being interested in asking questions and getting frustrated at the replies but for me everything comes from standing in front of the decks or machines and when I'm not there, I'm out getting influenced or asleep. In this case the devil isn't in the detail but asking the wrong questions of yourself.

[Ritzi Lee]

exactly.. who cares.. good music is good music no matter where it comes from.

in know anyone over here would agree on that.
but it's like we don't make the rules baby!

[Jay Pace]

I have a question...

Is anyone making any money from digital downloads?

Or are they just a way of getting your music out to more people, promoting a label, promoting your name etc?

[rhythmtech]

I have a question...

Is anyone making any money from digital downloads?

Or are they just a way of getting your music out to more people, promoting a label, promoting your name etc?

there is some money to be made. depends who you go with

beatport are quite good.. trackitdown dont make you much.

[dirty_bass]

It`s all about itunes.
But they reem you.
even then, you can still do well

[dirty_bass]

I have a question...

Is anyone making any money from Vinyl?

Or are they just a way of getting your music out to more people,, promoting your name etc?

Vinyl has become nothing more than a very expensive business card.
And having a label means nothing any more.
Look at juno
There`s a new "whatever label" 001 every week by someone.
There`s about as many labels as there are producers and DJ`s now.

[rhythmtech]

And having a label means nothing any more.
.

unless you make it a label that means something to people.. which, unfortunatly, are thin on the ground.

[dirty_bass]

It`s not so much that man, it`s just the sheer level of new labels every week, it has made people take new labels less seriously.
Getting avoice as a new producer on a new label is a real tough thing to do, but everyone thinks it is the way forward.

And this is what happens with most new labels.
To get the sales up and for 002 to go anywhere, new labels go for a big name.
Let`s say Dave Clark for example.
Record sells.
Why, because of Dave Clark.
Fans that bought it for Dave Clark will then buy whatever other release Dave Clark does next month, and said new label, who doesn`t have big name for following release, gets overlooked again.
So you get caught in the trap of making your label an outlet for the big names, which defeats the purpose.
OR you need to do something really original, which of course means taking a risk, which few are willing to do, and fewer distributers are willing to distribute.

You`ll see for yourself, running labels is no walk in the park.
Good luck by the way.

[rhythmtech]

ive already pulled all my hair out at this stage with it:ohdear:

its possibly the hardest thing i've ever done.. having to learn everything involved with it. the music part seems to be the least of my worries.

but i agree that there are 1001 new labels evertime i open up beatport. hopefully by keeping our runs on the small side we can build on each release and actually releasing on vinyl seems to be a novelty aswell so that will hopefully stand to our favour.

i know its not a 100% indication of sales but our orders for 01 are doing very well so far.

plus, and i think this is the most important factor.. this has been a long time planned, so the money is there to take us thru bad sales if that happens.

without proper financial backing and planning it would be madness and possibly very short lived

[dirty_bass]

I think anyone financing and backing a label properly is in fact mad.


It helps.

[rhythmtech]

I think anyone financing and backing a label properly is in fact mad.


It helps.

he who dares...

[Jay Pace]

he who dares...

Damn right.

Think its the same as running a night. Costs you money, takes ages to get up and running - but once your established you reap the benefits in many other ways than just the door tax.

You get access to people you would otherwise never speak to, you make friends you would never come across otherwise and you feel more plugged into the scene you love. You network, you get opportunities presented to you by way of reciprocity, you personally gain if you produce or dj...

Plus you get an opportunity to do things how you want. On your terms.

[dirty_bass]

Oh of course there are benefits.
But these benefits are less so now.
I would agree with everything you said maybe 4 years ago.
We are still in a state of flux right now, and no one seems to know which side the coin is gonna land.

[Jay Pace]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.

[Sam_Horam]

I prefer mixing with vinyl/cds. I enjoy having to beat match my records - there's not really any more thought to it than that for me. There's a lot of skill involved in mixing records well.

As various people have said in this thread it all comes down to whatever you like doing.

If I was just getting into this music now I might not have bought some decks. But I did (back when vinyl was everything) and now I love buying vinyl and having a record collection.

Regarding running a label - well it's true that there's a ridiculous amount of different labels and some of the stuff released is of a very poor standard. But I don't begrudge anyone setting up their own label and having a go if they want to. It's their time and money.

Everyone keeps saying how bad things are in terms of record sales and that techno is on a continually downward spiral, but people shouldn't quit or get disheartened by that. Just keep doing your thing and enjoy it for the sake of it - maybe one day things will start to turn round here in the UK.

[dirty_bass]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.

I agree, and I think the best advice for anyone looking to start a label in the techno scene, is to throw preconceptions about big hits, marketing etc out of the window.
The market is too small for that, and those days are gone.
Treat it as fun, approach it as something you do for love, and don`t have any expectations. There`s little point in over marketing or aiming for a target audience, I think staying true to your passion, and striving for originality will do you more in terms of personal rewards.
Keep your business wits about you, but don`t treat it too much as a business.
As in terms of business models, a techno label is fairly ludicrous.

So you may as well just have pure fun with it.

[SlavikSvensk]

It`s not so much that man, it`s just the sheer level of new labels every week, it has made people take new labels less seriously.


agreed. flooding the market is also not usually terribly good for the market's durability. i mean, fair dos to anyone who wants to publish themselves. their right and good luck to them. but the cumulative effect of many such ventures--especially those that are low-grade--is damaging. vinyl sales overall decline, etc.

[TechMouse]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.
Spot on.

Dom's attitude with Pure Filth is just to put on the music we want to hear.

Couldn't care less about making money, just 100% putting on the kind of night that we would want to go to if we weren't busy putting on nights.

Absolutely no point compromising your vision to make a fast buck, as "the crowd" is a fickle beast that it's nigh-on impossible to predict.

Do what you want, believe in what you do, and if you happen to make a killing on the night then put a good chunk in the pot for next month and redistribute the remains accordingly to the people who made it happen.

[djshiva]

i still buy both, but the overwhelming majority these days is digital. with the economy in the toilet, and promoters loathe to actually pay djs worth a shit, i just can't be arsed to spend hundreds a week on tunes when i can spend a small percentage of that and have just as many great tunes.

i use vinyl when i feel like it, serato when it's available, cds if i am not wanting to cart my shit around or i know the setup will be wobbly, and ableton when i play dubstep (because the tunes are not always dj friendly for a techno-minded girl and i like to do my own instant edits). my next step in the evolution is to mix ableton WITH turntables. still working on that, but it will happen soon. my boy gizzmo and i are also getting geared up for a turntables vs. ableton set (as me and adam jay have done before, to great effect).

so basically, the plethora of choices has just made djing that much more fun for me because i can do whatever i want, whenever i want. i have no complaints whatsoever.

oh and p.s. if some wanker wants to give me shit for using anything other than vinyl, i tell the ****ers if they wanna shell out hundreds for my tunes, then they can actually have a say in what medium i play. until then, they can go frak themselves.

[RDR]

Some really interesting views here... enjoying reading it.

I have to say some of steve's comments make me feel a bit uneasy about doing what im doing, but never the less its not going to slow me down.

I happen to believe that the 'Coin in the air' thinking is a positive in my book. People will always want to buy good music and the manner in which they buy it has always been in flux in one way or another. Therefore change is inevitable.

Running a label, sure thats a toughie fo' sho' but im not gonna let up with my efforts. Money is certainly an issue but only as far as presentation goes.

There are a lot of things to be taken into consideration when selling music, content, presentation and what seems to be the most important at the moment - consumer accesibility and content protection.

the subscription model is a seemingly good one, but i can help feeling its industry led and geared towards the bubblegum markets rather than the niche markets such as techno.

Someone else said that physical product is something they still consider, and i agree with this. physical product is something i personally want and im willing to bet that everyday people still do. Hence the r3tox shop will be selling CDs as well as the labels MP3's through BP and Juno et al.

Diversity certainly seems to be the key and i for one am more interested in selling quality electronic music / dance rather than 'niching.'

Time will tell what happens with the industry but i do know this, the big labels are notoriously slow to react to changes wihtin the industry and its usually the independants who lead the way musically. We shall see which way the coin falls, but for the moment setting up a label is probably a good thing on balance.

On a more personal note, i enjoy this business and its challenges and i really think that working in this field gives me as a techno fan the biggest opporunity to really push the sound of the fantastic artists and producers who have had the kindness to help me.

Regards

Chris.