tips on hi hat lines

[techno_smack]

been trying to years to get them percussive techno hat lines that really roll when u filter out the bass etc.

any tips on how to layer hats and use them to good effect

[Jay Pace]

Try coupling a drum machine hat with a real world hat. Gets really nice results.

Use 2 or 3 different hats and take a "less is more" approach

Hats should push the track along and give a bit of fizz, don't go overboard on your patterns.

You can make really simple effective hat patterns by just putting one on the offbeat, and playing around ever 16 bars or so, to keep variation. Keep the programming simple, but maybe adds some interesting effects or tonal changes.

Off beat hats give a shuffle feel, on beat hats give a driving quality, figure our which the track needs.

Try using a high pitch rim or tocky sound and incorporate it into your hat line, you can get interesting results using non hat sounds in your hat programming.

[techno_smack]

cheers im trying to make some really fat rolling percussive kinda hi hat stuff. im just trying to get it flowing nicely.

the good old chugging techno kinda hats

[Jay Pace]

well, you could always go for the classic hihat line CH CH OH

Then compress the hats, and side chain them to the kick and you'll get a nice chug to it.

[techno_smack]

yeah im trying to get really fat full high end wishy washey percusiveness.

like a fizzing kinda thing

the thing im doing at mo has a few hats lines on top of each other but none are sidechained to the kick i might try that.

[dirty_bass]

Hmm, I think I know what you are looking for.
I`d suggest a very subtle bit of bit crushing or some harsh wave shaping, with the eq inserted after the effects and maybe a little top boost.
I wouldn`t advice compressing the hats at all, leave that till the mastering stage.

You might be talking about the schranze style of "fizzy" hats? which in that case, a touch of distortion, some overdriven sidechain compress.

[techno_smack]

im not on about shranz type stuff. its really hard to explain. loads of techno tunes have the hats in on about. i think getting them right is the key to a good track. or plays a big part.

the cha cha chikka chikka cha type of thang but really full on and faaat

[techno_smack]

yeah im not on about shranz style hats. just the kinda hats the feature in quit e a few techno tunes.

very percussive and make a good loop when they r playing on there own.

[christian wagner]

Copy hi-hat patterns from rock songs, i do it and because of the quantisation on them they sound great, adds sparkly and intrest to an otherwise over used percussion element :)

[techno_smack]

wat do u mean by copying them? do u use the drum tabs or something?

[dan the acid man]

he usually kidnaps the drummers and forces them to play the tracks whilst he records it:)

[dirty_bass]

You best bet, find some tunes on juno or something, link em up here, and I might be able to help.
Other wise with verbal descriptions we can go round in circles for ever.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i recently had a huge hat revelation in the form of the the vsti drumazon.

check that bugger out and see it phatten up your hat lines instantaneously.

[techno_smack]

hmmm drumazon . will look into that cheers.

and yeah im off to find some samples

[techno_smack]

here is a short clip of the kind of hats i am reffering too

http://www.mediafire.com/?4mj3xomguzc

[Jay Pace]

OK

Thats basically a white noise hiss.

Theres two different hats there, one on the beat, one on the offbeat.
Both are drum machine open hihats, the one on the beat has little to no transient so its just the trebly hiss tail thats been sampled. You can achieve this by taking a open hihat sample and just chopping the front of it off.

The second has a slight transient and is on the off beat giving it the "chucka chucka chucka" sound and driving the drums along.

The thing giving the fizz is the position in the mix. There's a lot going on in that track, the lead, the drums etc etc. Space has been made in a busy mix for the hats to fizz along the top. If you want that sound, you need to make a full mix with space for those hats. Otherwise no matter what you do you won't quite get the same effect.

Anyways - the hats themselves are fairly straightforward. A basic 909 or 808 open hat (can be achieved in drumazon easily), two slightly different hats on the beat and the offbeat, onbeat without a transient, then just compress and maybe add a little distortion. Then filter off the low frequencies and make sure your mix is set up to accomodate them.

Sorry if rambling. Boozy lunch
:)

[techno_smack]

cheers jay, that was quite helpful.

cant seem to make them sound anywhere near as good tho

[loopdon]

They sound pretty washed out, as Jay said they have a white noise element. Didn't sound really high to me either (high as in airy), more crusty, midish... analogue :)

This plugin might add to the experience:

http://home.versatel.nl/breebaar/downloads/ferox/ferox.zip

this -only demo, though, should at least get you into the sound ballpark:

sonitex 1260 from

http://www.otiumfx.com/

or izotope vinyl; or some bitrate reduction. has the feeling of an old, crusty sampler. like old wutang records... deffo not hi-fi and not what i would want my highats to sound like but matter of taste as always.

[Jay Pace]

cheers jay, that was quite helpful.

cant seem to make them sound anywhere near as good tho

Well, its not so much the hats as the mix around them that makes them how they are.

So maybe you need to work on your mix and worry less about your hats? A good mix will see everything fall into place. If your mix isn't balanced you won't be able to get the individual elements right no matter how hard you try.

I spent ages trying to get kicks and hats right before I realised I needed to concentrate on the mix and not the kick/hat etc.

[dirty_bass]

Ok, I`ve had a listen.
Well, there`s a number of ways of achieving this.
Firstly this type of over crushed fizz is an archetype of a badly produced record.
Too much top end at the master, so when cut to vinyl (vinyl has restricted top end range) the tops have distorted in a very vinyl way.

Whay you have here, is a standard Jazz Shaker loop. Doing the da-da-DA-da it also has a little forward swing/shuffle to it.
There`s also what could be a tuned down 909 ride, that has been high passed and then stupidly over EQ`d on the top end.
I think I can just hear a 909 closed hat on a 16 note constant hit in there too.

To recreate this I would make a 16 note Shaker shuffle.
A 16 note closed 909 shuffle (slightly out of quanitsation with the shaker shuffle)
And wack either a 909 ride or a white noise ride from a drum generator.

Send the whole lot to a buss, sidechain it to the kick, add some Fuzz/Wave shaping distortion, maybe a little valve saturation, a dab of reverb, and over cook the top end.
Then make sure there`s a lot of room in the mix to accomodate it.

OR

Do the above without the distrotion etc, and totally overcook the high end, and let the vinyl cutter swear like a bastard and cut it, making those squashed distorted sounds.


I think I get the general feel you are going for.
Essentially you want the kind of hats that flow into each other, providing a constant gel between the kicks, so they sound as one instrument.
Basically 16 note closed hats/shakes, combined with rides, long open hats, or long white noise hats, and then sidechained, will give this rolling, flowing beahviour to any hat pattern.

[loopdon]

Agreed, it sounded like some shaker loop woven into it as well. What you call badly produced, Steve, i put as ''not hi-fi'' = lofi. Now if that's exactly the sound your looking for, ok, but i an only imagine this being played over a rig and becoming even more mushy.

But i reckon one can't really argue about taste and b) i like threads like these!

[dirty_bass]

Agreed, it sounded like some shaker loop woven into it as well. What you call badly produced, Steve, i put as ''not hi-fi'' = lofi. Now if that's exactly the sound your looking for, ok, but i an only imagine this being played over a rig and becoming even more mushy.

But i reckon one can't really argue about taste and b) i like threads like these!

Well what I mean is, especially with the digital era making that super crisp top end, this kind of bad production has been archetype for so long, it`s kinda become a sound, but essentially it`s a product of the cutting engineer having trouble with overcooked tops.

Lo-Fi is something like portishead. Using vintage and intentional scratchiness or whatever, but still well produced.

Bad production is bad production.

But I still get the general gist of what our man wants here, which is the rolling hats that essentially become one instrument (at least I think that`s what he is getting at) which is common in techno. Mankind records was always a good exponent of lovely big rolling top end loops. Incidentally, putting a sidechained gate with a constant 16 step pattern over the final stage of your hat buss, will also give things a nice timely chopping into the mix.

[techno_smack]

cheers dirty,

"Essentially you want the kind of hats that flow into each other, providing a constant gel between the kicks, so they sound as one instrument."

yeah thats exactly what im trying to acheive . i love techno hats/shaker action! when the kick n bass filters off or cuts and u just get this really fat hi -end groove .

the example i posted wasnt a great one. i m going to try and find something more like i am thinking off. but it looks like u know what im on about.

thanks keep ur tips and methods coming.

id love to hear some of ur own tunes if any one thinks they have some stuff with hats like this.

[dirty_bass]

Doubling up also helps.
2 sets of shakers, or a shker loop sample and your own shaker pattern with hits, so you get the effect of a couple of people playing shakers.
Then add some ride or open hat in there as well.

[drumliner]

emmm... talking about lo-fi, crushed, just white noise, no sparkle etc hats based on the provided sample is kinda obvious. the sample is after all a 64 kbps mp3 and all types of hats will sound lo-fi, crushed and so on at such low bitrate - it's the mp3 compression that does it.

[techno_smack]

emmm... talking about lo-fi, crushed, just white noise, no sparkle etc hats based on the provided sample is kinda obvious. the sample is after all a 64 kbps mp3 and all types of hats will sound lo-fi, crushed and so on at such low bitrate - it's the mp3 compression that does it.

yeah i was gonna mention that! thought this lot would have taken that into account , its a very low quality sample.