manufacturing & distribution

[tonyc2002]

i basically want to find out more about the processes involved in taking a bounced down wave all the way to seeing a record in my local record shop?

whats involved etc? does it help to have the music published? licensing?

enlighten me old wise ones....

[The 818 Kid]

there's a ****in lot involved.. lotta money bein spent..

and if u gonna distribute it yea.. get ur shit copyrighted..

[tonyc2002]

there's a ****in lot involved.. lotta money bein spent..

and if u gonna distribute it yea.. get ur shit copyrighted..

care to elaborate?

[dirty_bass]

Well.
Publishing, mcprs registration and copyright etc are very handy.
For techno on vinyl it`s not so much of a point.
Not many people buy it, let alone rip it off, especially from vinyl.
Most good digital distribution contracts handle all this nicely now anyway.

So, after bouncing down your WAV, and then mastering it correctly for vinyl, you will need to sort out a distributer.
A hit and miss stage (I`ll talk about self financing rather than P&D (which is a titanic rip off for the artist anyway)), where you send your prospective (and possibly 2 other releases to follow, so they have an idea where you are heading) release to the distributer.
Let`s say they decide to distribute your label, you`ll next need to sign a distribution contract (very similar to signing your soul away to the devil).
You`ll also need some actual designs for the label to go on the vinyl.

After that you can book a cut at a vinyl cutting room.
You`ll probably (if you are serious about things) want to attend the cut.
At this stage the Dub plate will be cut which will then be sent to the manufacturing plant to be made into a master stamp. These stamps will be duplicated to be fitted into a vinyl press.
Next you`ll book your pressing (or get an all in one cut and press deal) (and supply the art for the labels)
you`ll recieve some test pressings to try out, and if you are happy with the cut you can give the go ahead to mass produce.

You`ll probably want to send your TP`s out to some DJ`s who will play it (preferably some DJ`s who get about a bit).
And maybe send some to magazines for review (which although good for your ego, has little effect on sales these days, as magazine sales are so low, and most people can form their own opinions by listening to the music via E-vendors such as Juno).
You`ll then receive the final pressings.
You`ll salivate over them and feel all warm inside.
you`ll want to do a mass mail out to your promo list, to get more people to play the record.
After a good amount of time to let the promo`s take hold in the clubs etc, you`ll set your release date and the record will go on sale.

Around 3-6 months later hopefully you`ll get back the money from sales (minus the distributers fee, of course).

If your really lucky at some point the record will sell out and a repress might be in order.

[loopdon]

Thanks for the explanation, Steve. Good read.

[rhythmtech]

Well.
Publishing, mcprs registration and copyright etc are very handy.
For techno on vinyl it`s not so much of a point.
Not many people buy it, let alone rip it off, especially from vinyl.
Most good digital distribution contracts handle all this nicely now anyway.

So, after bouncing down your WAV, and then mastering it correctly for vinyl, you will need to sort out a distributer.
A hit and miss stage (I`ll talk about self financing rather than P&D (which is a titanic rip off for the artist anyway)), where you send your prospective (and possibly 2 other releases to follow, so they have an idea where you are heading) release to the distributer.
Let`s say they decide to distribute your label, you`ll next need to sign a distribution contract (very similar to signing your soul away to the devil).
You`ll also need some actual designs for the label to go on the vinyl.

After that you can book a cut at a vinyl cutting room.
You`ll probably (if you are serious about things) want to attend the cut.
At this stage the Dub plate will be cut which will then be sent to the manufacturing plant to be made into a master stamp. These stamps will be duplicated to be fitted into a vinyl press.
Next you`ll book your pressing (or get an all in one cut and press deal) (and supply the art for the labels)
you`ll recieve some test pressings to try out, and if you are happy with the cut you can give the go ahead to mass produce.

You`ll probably want to send your TP`s out to some DJ`s who will play it (preferably some DJ`s who get about a bit).
And maybe send some to magazines for review (which although good for your ego, has little effect on sales these days, as magazine sales are so low, and most people can form their own opinions by listening to the music via E-vendors such as Juno).
You`ll then receive the final pressings.
You`ll salivate over them and feel all warm inside.
you`ll want to do a mass mail out to your promo list, to get more people to play the record.
After a good amount of time to let the promo`s take hold in the clubs etc, you`ll set your release date and the record will go on sale.

Around 3-6 months later hopefully you`ll get back the money from sales (minus the distributers fee, of course).

If your really lucky at some point the record will sell out and a repress might be in order.

you forgot the part where you pull all your hair out, your girlfriend pulls all hers out and your bank manager threatens you with violence :laughing:

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah and the bit afterwards where label owners turn into bitter old men venting about "sales back in t'day" when the latest scraping of the barrel only sells 100 copies or so

it aint always greener on the other side godamnnnnnnn

[rhythmtech]

when the latest scraping of the barrel only sells 100 copies or so


must be just you scott :briggin: :briggin: :laughing:

[eyeswithoutaface]

must be just you scott :briggin: :briggin: :laughing:

add another 0 onto that and you'd still be a few hundred short mate :)

[tonyc2002]

Well.
Publishing, mcprs registration and copyright etc are very handy.
For techno on vinyl it`s not so much of a point.
Not many people buy it, let alone rip it off, especially from vinyl.
Most good digital distribution contracts handle all this nicely now anyway.

So, after bouncing down your WAV, and then mastering it correctly for vinyl, you will need to sort out a distributer.
A hit and miss stage (I`ll talk about self financing rather than P&D (which is a titanic rip off for the artist anyway)), where you send your prospective (and possibly 2 other releases to follow, so they have an idea where you are heading) release to the distributer.
Let`s say they decide to distribute your label, you`ll next need to sign a distribution contract (very similar to signing your soul away to the devil).
You`ll also need some actual designs for the label to go on the vinyl.

After that you can book a cut at a vinyl cutting room.
You`ll probably (if you are serious about things) want to attend the cut.
At this stage the Dub plate will be cut which will then be sent to the manufacturing plant to be made into a master stamp. These stamps will be duplicated to be fitted into a vinyl press.
Next you`ll book your pressing (or get an all in one cut and press deal) (and supply the art for the labels)
you`ll recieve some test pressings to try out, and if you are happy with the cut you can give the go ahead to mass produce.

You`ll probably want to send your TP`s out to some DJ`s who will play it (preferably some DJ`s who get about a bit).
And maybe send some to magazines for review (which although good for your ego, has little effect on sales these days, as magazine sales are so low, and most people can form their own opinions by listening to the music via E-vendors such as Juno).
You`ll then receive the final pressings.
You`ll salivate over them and feel all warm inside.
you`ll want to do a mass mail out to your promo list, to get more people to play the record.
After a good amount of time to let the promo`s take hold in the clubs etc, you`ll set your release date and the record will go on sale.

Around 3-6 months later hopefully you`ll get back the money from sales (minus the distributers fee, of course).

If your really lucky at some point the record will sell out and a repress might be in order.

really appreciate the info mate. thanks :)

[tonyc2002]

PS

ill have more questions soon :laughing:



oh hang on ive just thought of one (:cheese:)....

are there any companies that you would personally reccomend? ive heard Amato are pretty on the ball....

[dirty_bass]

you forgot the part where you pull all your hair out, your girlfriend pulls all hers out and your bank manager threatens you with violence :laughing:

I thought I`d ommit that part, as it`s stressful enough going through it without having to write it down.

[rhythmtech]

PS

ill have more questions soon :laughing:



oh hang on ive just thought of one (:cheese:)....

are there any companies that you would personally reccomend? ive heard Amato are pretty on the ball....

amato
elektronik (spelling?)
z-audio
triple vision

[dirty_bass]

PS

ill have more questions soon :laughing:



oh hang on ive just thought of one (:cheese:)....

are there any companies that you would personally reccomend? ive heard Amato are pretty on the ball....

Amato are very very picky about what they will handle now.
They pretty much have given up on techno.

I would say that techno distribution has reached an almost 1 company monopoly stage now.
The pecking order of size is basically this.

Neuton (all other distributers pretty much go through neuton at some point)
Triple Vision
Others.

Dealing with Neuton will get you the best coverage and returns, but again, they are picky.
Triple are good, but deal through Neuton, so you are looking at dealing with 2 sets of middle men before sales point.
Then after that it`s a free for all of "will this company make it through the year?"


I really can`t recommend dealing with vinyl to anyone sane, and if you have any business sense, you will avoid it like the plague, but as techno people, none of us are sane.
It`s an exceedingly expensive hobby to run a vinyl label.
Whereas 4-5 years ago a good release hit 1500-3000 copies.
These days a good selling release does 500!!!!

Is that crazy or what?

[tonyc2002]

nice one guys.....

so the general jist is this...

write your amazing track -----> master for vinyl ----> send to distributer -----> get some sort deal (which may/not include publishing) -----> have the vinyl made ----> send out promos -----> release record



just want to point out that ime not investing anything till my music is spankingly phat, ime just dipping my toes in the water (so to speak) so again thanks guys. its brilliant being able to ask people "in the know" like this. really really good :)

[tonyc2002]

Amato are very very picky about what they will handle now.
They pretty much have given up on techno.

I would say that techno distribution has reached an almost 1 company monopoly stage now.
The pecking order of size is basically this.

Neuton (all other distributers pretty much go through neuton at some point)
Triple Vision
Others.

Dealing with Neuton will get you the best coverage and returns, but again, they are picky.
Triple are good, but deal through Neuton, so you are looking at dealing with 2 sets of middle men before sales point.
Then after that it`s a free for all of "will this company make it through the year?"


I really can`t recommend dealing with vinyl to anyone sane, and if you have any business sense, you will avoid it like the plague, but as techno people, none of us are sane.
It`s an exceedingly expensive hobby to run a vinyl label.
Whereas 4-5 years ago a good release hit 1500-3000 copies.
These days a good selling release does 500!!!!

Is that crazy or what?


ahh just seen this post...

your right....the production costs of an MP3 compared to vinyl are obviously much better, i think ime just in love with the idea...

why have sales dropped so much tho? i cant believe that many dj;s are abandoning vinyl for digital media?

[dirty_bass]

My advice is send your music to one of the bazillion labels out there.
Labels don`t mean anything any more.
There`s 2 labels for every 1 DJ, the balance is all ****ed up.
Just go to juno each week and count all the 001`s every time.

Find some labels you respect and taylor some decent demo`s for them.

[tonyc2002]

My advice is send your music to one of the bazillion labels out there.
Labels don`t mean anything any more.
There`s 2 labels for every 1 DJ, the balance is all ****ed up.
Just go to juno each week and count all the 001`s every time.

Find some labels you respect and taylor some decent demo`s for them.

i think that is probaly the most logical route for me

*begins to ponder*

[dirty_bass]

why have sales dropped so much tho? i cant believe that many dj;s are abandoning vinyl for digital media?

Well I think just "being" a DJ was very fashionable in the late 90`s.
It was an attainable goal for anyone. You don`t need to learn how to make music, just spin some records in time, and your a superstar.
Eventually the bubble burst, and the "Fad" buyers as opposed to hardcore fans eventually moved on to other things. Either guitars etc along with the rock revival of this century, or ipods, cd players, ableton etc.
A number of factors have contributed.

-The rave generation have all grown up and moved on.
-Techno being a relatively easy music to make (just bang any loops together) became a saturated market.
-Decline of support by mainstream media (this is to do with market control by the Major music labels, and is a very long, disgusting and sad story)
-Technology changing and moving on
-A complete change in perception of the physicality of "product" ie the digital revolution
-More supply than demand means sales are spread thinly
-Sales were never about active "professional" DJ`s anyway, but more about the bedroom DJ, who have apparently moved on mostly.
-Clubbing being clamped down upon by authorities across the globe (war on drugs)
-Change of music fashion from electronic sequenced music to live, traditional "rock" instrumentation.

All things go in cycles, and dance music had a long run.
I think techno will continue to go underground and remain amongst hardcore fans, until the younger generations "discover" dance music.
but I think we are looking at a decade since the beginning of the decline in 2001-2002
so maybe 2010-2012?


On the plus side, the digital revolution has evened the odds and put people on a more level playing field, by removing the need for masses of capital (to a certain extent), although to be successful in this area, you need to transfer your money from the old method (vinyl manufacture) to the new way (marketing for digital).
It would seem the digital medium is still gaining strength, whilst vinyl is losing strength (although this decline seems to be leveling off slowly), so it doesn`t take a business degree to work out what is happening.

[RDR]

+1 for that last one.

Can i add a note of optimism though?

Releasing good music and having associations with good artists of whatever flavour is always a good thing, learning about the industry through trial and error is good fun. Keep at it and you'll get there in the end.

Also - yes there are a lot of labels out there now, but eventually these will whittle down into larger labels again. Twas ever thus.

The general principles of working in the music industry still hold true though.

Persistance
An eye for quality
The desire to work with others
Good contacts
Never say die attitude
A love for the game
And the willingness and capability to change.
Knowing when chance arrives.

On a personal level i really feel that although this seems like a dark time for techno, things will come around again, they always do.. and even in our darkest times there are opportunities for those willing to stay the course.

OH... and BE diverse... diversity is a great position to start from, knowing outside the box is far better than thinking outside it. Techno is not the be-all and end all, by its very nature it draws from all other styles of music and can be a breaking ground for new genres in one way or another as long as there are people out there wiht a keyboard and talent.

[theledge]

These days a good selling release does 500!!!!


Which you will barely break even on, if you sell all the records.

Unless you are hopelessly infatuated with the idea of running a vinyl label, have thousands of pounds you're prepared to potentially not see again, shed loads of time and determination and probably a good streak of stupidity i wouldnt bother

The future is digital, so you might as well embrace it early

[dirty_bass]

OH... and BE diverse... diversity is a great position to start from, knowing outside the box is far better than thinking outside it. Techno is not the be-all and end all, by its very nature it draws from all other styles of music and can be a breaking ground for new genres in one way or another as long as there are people out there wiht a keyboard and talent.

Marry me

[RDR]

Marry me

:laughing:

no.

[tonyc2002]

learning about the industry through trial and error is good fun. Keep at it and you'll get there in the end.

thats a fair point but i dont want to lose all my money :laughing:

[rhythmtech]

thats a fair point but i dont want to lose all my money :laughing:

well dont get into it then :laughing:

think about digital only.. that wont cost you as much.. just mastering costs.. then if that goes well think about the vinyl end (and a lobotomy!!)

[dirty_bass]

well dont get into it then :laughing:

think about digital only.. that wont cost you as much.. just mastering costs.. then if that goes well think about the vinyl end (and a lobotomy!!)

Actually the costs can be relatively similar if you are serious about it.
You just transfer your spending from manufacturing to marketing.
It`s a completely different way of thinking, and one I`m still bending my head, and bank balance around.
Now I can pay the artists I want a decent fee for their music, and spend money on advertising, flyers, posters, etc
With vinyl all your money pretty much goes on the plastic, and if you are lucky, you have enough left over to do another. If you are really lucky you can pay your artists more than a few beers.

[rhythmtech]

Actually the costs can be relatively similar if you are serious about it.
You just transfer your spending from manufacturing to marketing.
It`s a completely different way of thinking, and one I`m still bending my head, and bank balance around.
Now I can pay the artists I want a decent fee for their music, and spend money on advertising, flyers, posters, etc
With vinyl all your money pretty much goes on the plastic, and if you are lucky, you have enough left over to do another. If you are really lucky you can pay your artists more than a few beers.

have you ever used those "digital distributers" like intergroove germany.. where they look after getting it onto all the download sites?

was wondering if they're any use..

[tonyc2002]

have you ever used those "digital distributers" like intergroove germany.. where they look after getting it onto all the download sites?

was wondering if they're any use..

ive fired off an email to these guys http://www.digdis.de/ but no reply yet :whoops:

[dirty_bass]

have you ever used those "digital distributers" like intergroove germany.. where they look after getting it onto all the download sites?

was wondering if they're any use..

I`ve just signed a very serious contract for major digital distribution with a good company that really seems to have things in hand.
The marketing tools and promotion tools look great.
Harder work than vinyl, but I think it should reap more benefits.
So no, intergroove germany I haven`t touched, the way they ended their vinyl distribution there is no way I would touch any other type of business they do.

[rhythmtech]

I`ve just signed a very serious contract for major digital distribution with a good company that really seems to have things in hand.
The marketing tools and promotion tools look great.
Harder work than vinyl, but I think it should reap more benefits.
So no, intergroove germany I haven`t touched, the way they ended their vinyl distribution there is no way I would touch any other type of business they do.

arent they a seperate company from intergroove uk? i suppose even if they are the bad name will stick.

[RDR]

Bang on about spending money on marketing.

As for digital distro - getting a good partner is the only way forward.

[RDR]

I`ve just signed a very serious contract for major digital distribution with a good company that really seems to have things in hand.

so did i ;P

[dirty_bass]

so did i ;P

great innit
keeping that under me hat

[acos1]

I am starting a digital label and against my better judgement am going to to release the 1st release on vinyl. I know it is not the smartest idea but it is a idea i have romanticized with for many years.
Seeing as this thread dates back to 2007 i was wondering if any of you guys are still releasing vinyl? If so who presses for you and who distributes? I have heard many good things about Curved Pressings.

[tonyc2002]

Blast from the past!

Well, in the end I never bothered with the vinyl route due to the fact that I would have lost lots of money. But, on the positive side, I formed a digital label instead which is doing well (we've sold over 2000 tracks) and had lots of good advice from people on here to get it started (notably from RDR if memory serves).

I have been doing it since around the end of 2008 and you can see the fruits of my labour here : Elevation Music : Dance Music Forum, Magazine, Underground Music Portal ::: (http://www.elevationmusic.co.uk)

Back to the topic though, I honestly don't know what the vinyl scene is like now....I imagine it's shit. I still have my trusty 1210's (and I doubt I'll ever sell them) but I bought myself a set of CDJ1000's too. All the tracks I buy these days are in digital format and pretty much everyone I know buys digital (at least in the trance scene).

But, if you believe in it, I say go for it! It's only money and you can't take it with you (plus who knows, you may make profit!) :rubiggrin:

[acos1]

Nice one, looks like your label is goin well for ya man fairplay.